Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,380
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,380
Ava,<BR>Good Question.<P>Keep in mind I have followed Scott's story for a while, so sometimes I respond to its entirety and it sounds like I am over board to just one post, maybe.<P>No, it is not his list (although it is quite a list [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]), it is the all or nothing mentality behind the list.<P>For example...if he is saying. If I can not hope for anal sex with my wife in my lifetime, then I will resent her and will consider leaving my marriage and my daughter.<P>Sounds a little radical. I think he is losing perspective. Having needs met is great, but in context of the big picture.<P>Again I hope I am wrong [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,997
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,997
What is Scott's type again? He sounds like an ISTJ. Makes a list. Measures objectively. Concerned with details and loses track of the big picture.<P>Scott, have you tried meditating? Seriously, you are heading down the same slippery slope Mike C2 was on a few months back. he found his footing again and he seems to be doing better. I hope you can step back from this SF thing long enough to get reacquainted with the big picture and what your overall goals and not focus so intensely on one area.<P>Your wife's letter sounded quite touching. Let me highlight some things she said that it appears you didn't see:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Dear Scott,<BR>I'm typing you this letter because I have been thinking of you a lot today and besides I could use the help with my typing. First, I want to say that I am sorry for any and all negative remarks that I may have made last night. I get very frustrated when I am spending money and I have nothing to show for it. I personal feel that Jennifer and I have not hit it off very well. I intend to pray for patients with her. I agreed to keep talking with her until school is out. I fully intend to keep my end of the deal. I will also try hard to not be judgemental. So If I am quite around you, please don't take it personnal. If I can't say something postive than I won’t say anything at all. <B>I want you to know that I do love you very much and I want more than anything to be in love with you.</B> I am not there yet, but working toward it. We both know what our problems are and <B>I believe that we both are willing to try---- Please try to have patients with me when it comes to sex. </B>I want you to have a good sex life. <B>I really do want you to be happy.</B> Sometimes you feel like a stranger to me and it is hard to make love to a stranger. I may not ever be able to do all the things on your sex list but <B>if we put our minds together I believe that we could come up with some other things to <I>add</I> to your list that we <I>both</I> can enjoy</B>. <B>I am looking forward to our trip to New York. I only wish that I wasn't going to be on my period. If I'm having cramps, it's hard to enjoy sking or skating or other physical avtivities. I want us to hold hands and hug and kiss and talk and sit and If there is a night that I can touch you and make you feel good, I will do it for you. Scott I do love you, please don't ever forget that.</B> I know latley that you and I both talk about ending our marriage ------ I know deep in my heart that neither of us really want that. It's just the hurt talking. Please continue to work on connecting our hearts -----keep praying------god gives his answer in his time work hard at having patients and <B>I'll work hard at having a more open mind when it comes to sex.</B> I'm not sure if any of this will make any sence. My typing and spelling needs a lot of work and D keeps needing things so I am stopping a lot and I am also trying to fix dinner. Also I keep looking over my shoulder to make sure that BIL hasn't come in. I just want you to know some of my thoughts. <B>I look forward to making love to you tonight.</B> D will need a spelling test before she goes to bed and I will need to lay out our clothes for school tomorrow. I teach Ms. Bowman's class. It would be nice if we could get D to bed on time and than <B>go to our room and talk, make love and maybe watch the movie that you recorded while lying close together.</B><BR>Love always, *****<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Scott, pay special attention to those spots that I marked in bold. You looked right past those and focused on the ones that triggered your hurt. Look past your own hurt and see hers. It's right there beside yours.<P>

Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 809
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 809
*<p>[This message has been edited by Doug (edited March 15, 2001).]

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
First off I never said to my W that I wanted a divorce if she never met all 18 things. When she resisted counseling I said that I felt that Jenn was our last hope. <P>Jenn asked us to do the EN questionnaire and write a list and be specific about what would really touch you. She gave us strict instructions when sharing this list not to saying anything other than asking questions for clarification like how often. My W ripped my heart out with her reactions. I did not react in a negative way but god was I ever hurt. Jenn asked me to call her the next day, which I did. Jenn said that W may not continue with counseling. I told Jenn that I had thoughts of leaving her I she did this. Leaving means plan B not divorce. Jenn reminded me about Plan A/plan B. A that separation was only recommend during sever neglect and abuse cases. She asked me to have thick skin for three months and do the best plan A (Meetings needs and no LB’s) I agreed to try. I don’t know if Jenn would recommend plan B if after 3 months things were not better, I did not ask her and did not care to go there. Keep in mind we are talking about a situation when W refuses to be involved in counseling and continues her major LB’s.<P>W is under the impression also that I said that if she does not do all of what is on my list that our marriage is over. She said this to me a few min ago and she also said this to Jenn today. I have some clarification to do. <P>Second, since when was filling out your EN’s a demand and cornering your spouse? I never said I would leave her if she did not perform all of these things. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Scott

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,380
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,380
OK, Scott, I misinterpretted and I apologize. It said in the letter that you talked about D and then in your response to TS you said you would resent your wife if she did not do everything on the list. Was your whole list for your marriage SF?<P>But it is true you would consider leaving your marriage, right?<P>Thought any more about the several comments several of us made about your wife's letter?

Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,194
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,194
Scott,<P>I really suggest that you write a letter to your wife similar to what I have suggested. I know that right now, you do not feel like doing it, but if you get started, the feelings will come. After you have prepared it, talk to Jennifer about it and get her input. <P>Right now, your wife may be feeling very rejected by you. You have to assure her that she is the most wonderful woman in the world to you, and then she will be in a position to respond to your needs. I wish things were different, but that is how they are. <P>Remember, just as it is your wife's job to make you fall in love with her, it is your job to make her fall in love with you. She cannot take as much criticism at one time as you can. You gave her 18 ways to change all at once, and she assumed that you meant that she had disappointed you in all those ways. <P>Scott, like it or not, you lovebusted. It is time to make some major deposits. I assure you with 90% accuracy that if you give your wife a letter similar to the one I suggested, you will receive dividends you will thank God for. <BR>

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 139
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 139
Scott - <P>As a fellow ISTJ let me ask you a logical question:<P>If you wife came on to this board asking advice and venting about YOU, and a dozen people replied to her in your defense and advised her to go knock your socks off in bed, do something really daring, and she dismissed it and refused to do so...<P>How is that REALLY any different from you refusing to give your wife that letter that we really believe she needs to hear from you?<P>You are denying her something she needs from you because you don't FEEL like it. I think that is kind of like her denying you SF because she doesn't FEEL like it. It's not right.<P>You need to give your wife that letter because of HER NEEDS. Just like she needs to broaden her SF horizons (which, to be fair, she IS doing) because of YOUR NEEDS.

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
I’m short on time right now. I will respond to John’s suggestions about the letter tomorrow. John is much more passive than I, and as FHL I can’t honestly say all of those things. I don’t think that she would want to hear all of them either. We went over this list a month ago, and she is not in shock like she was at first. Her Love Bank inventory is higher now than it’s been in a long time. <P>------------------<BR>Scott<p>[This message has been edited by Promised Forever (edited March 14, 2001).]

Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,194
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,194
<BR>[This message has been edited by IsIt2late (edited March 14, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by IsIt2late (edited March 14, 2001).]

Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,194
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,194
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IsIt2late:<BR><B>Scott,<P>I apologize for offending you, I was only trying to help. But just as you have said that you are not as blunt as you appear here, it is very possible that I am not nearly as passive as you have characterized me. I can certainly attest to the fact that I am not as selfish and demanding as you. Perhaps you should examine yourself and try to see what it is to be married to someone like you.<P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You,<BR>John<P>[This message has been edited by IsIt2late (edited March 14, 2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,997
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,997
((((((((Scott)))))))))<P>I'm sorry you feel attacked.<P>But if so many of us inferred the same things from what you wrote, do you think it's possible that something in your demeanor, however unintentional, may have caused your wife to infer the same thing?<P>You don't need to prove to us that you didn't mean what we thought you meant. But you do need to show that to your wife. Did you re-read the parts of her letret that I highlighted? Do you see the love in those words? She's not withholding to bemean to you. Yeah, the crumb comment was hurtful, but she did that in defense. She felt backed into a corner (whether you put her in one or not, that is how she FELT), so she lashed out.<P>It is clear to me that both of you are feeling rejected right now. She feels rejected because she's afraid that if she can't do all the things on your list, you will leave her. Or at least resent her which will hurt just as much. And you feel rejected because you think she just doesn't want to please you, when in actuality she wants very much to please you. It will be a big stretch for her to do it, though. But she is willing to try and she said that she believe that you are, too. But she needs to take it at a speed that won't frighten her back into herself.<P>Which is why I recommended breaking the list up. Pick the most important one to you that seh feels she is most likely to be able to meet. Once you get past that step and you are sure that she has reached a level of comfort, let her stay at that level for a while. Don't push too hard too soon. Once she has had some time achieving a level of comfort with this new activity, ask her if she's ready to try another one. Let her pick which one. Again, let her reach a level of comfort and stay at that level for a while, until she's ready to try another. <P>Also, FHL had a good point. Is the SF list the only thing you wrote about what you wanted out of your marriage? Or is it just a part of the list, the part you're focusing on? It might be a good idea to put some balance in there. Pick one thing from each area and work on the non-SF ones first. Or POJA with her which ones to work on first.<P>You'll get through this Scott. But your taker needs to be reigned in a little.

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
John, Brother- you have not offended me in the least. I do appreciate your input and the time that you have spent on my behalf. <P><B>I can certainly attest to the fact that I am not as selfish and demanding as you</B><BR>This is probably true. We only see glimpses of each other thru BB’s so it is very difficult to get a true assessment of someone this way. I suppose that my taker does runamuck here and there. Deep long trem resentment is very difficult to get past. I do have a giver that is every bit as much or more eager to give than my taker is to receive. For the last year I’ve had a problem balancing the two. I’ve been trying to tie up and gag my taker and stow him in the closest for the last few weeks but he has a nack for slipping out. <P> <B>I was only trying to help</B><BR>And you have, John<P>Dear Wonderful, Beautiful Love of My Life<BR>Now I’m getting excited. YEs, this is true<P>After reflecting on my list, I realized that to you, it was pretty overwhelming. I guess my personality is just such that I want clearly defined goals to work towards so that I can measure my progress. I obviously forgot that you do not approach issues like this. I should be thankful that God has provided me with a loving wife who complements me, instead of being exactly like me. <P>I agree that my list was overwhelming to her. We were sharing all of our EN’s under the direction of a counselor. In all honesty I didn’t forget that she was not goal oriented, I was sharing my needs and thoughts with her using MB’s format. I sat in a divorce court a few weeks ago and heard all kinds of dirty laundry. This helped me to realize that I do appreciate many things about my wife. I still have long term baked on crusty resentment over EN’s not being met and LB’s. I can’t honestly say that I am thankful for the whole package.<P>Please forgive me for even implying that I ever wanted to end our marriage. <BR>I clarified with her that I didn’t plan to leave if she didn’t perform 18 out of 18. I shared my feelings with her and I’m not sorry for being honest. Yes, she does need to feel safe. If she refuses to meet my EN’s and continues with brutal LB’s then she is not safe our marriage is not safe and I would be lying if I told her otherwise. <P>I guess my hurt just gets in the way, and I say things that I should not. <BR>Resentment would be a better choice of words. Might should add penis in here too.<P>I know that the last counseling session was difficult for you, and I am so thankful that you have agreed to continue. There are many women who would not continue after a session like that. I greatly admire your courage.<BR>Done deal<P>I know that you and I were together sexually before we were married, and I am truly sorry for that. We both violated the beliefs that we espouse. I think that may be part of the problem, so I would like to ask your forgiveness for that. I was immature and selfish. It was mostly my fault. <BR>This is not how I feel. I don’t regret premarital sex. I was not pursuing a quick lay, I was in love with her.<P>Anyway, thank you for saying that you would like to make love to me tonight, but I really see that I have hurt you. I could not bear for you to make love to me when I know that I caused you so much grief. Let's just plan for another night. The Policy of Joint Agreement dictates that unless we can enthusiastically agree to make love, we should wait. I would much prefer to wait until you truly have a desire for me and want to please me than to just make love because we planned to. <BR>To turn down her gifts is a LB for her. She was not offering mercy sex here. <P>I have also made other foolish comments about hookers<BR>She’s the one who brings up hookers. I only speak of her. <P>There is not a woman in the world who could ever compare to you, and I could never imagine myself loving anyone but you.<BR>I wish that I felt this way. I shared with her what she could do to help me feel this way. This feeling comes with romantic love. My heart is in withdrawal and my mind is in conflict. <P>------------------<BR>Scott<p>[This message has been edited by Promised Forever (edited March 15, 2001).]

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,380
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,380
Scott, I give you tons of credit for sticking with this!<P>And since your heart is in withdrawl and your head is in conflict, can you see that it would be appropriate to make sure you are spiritually centered right now? Obviously faith has been a big part of your whole life, and it sounds like it is still very important to your wife.<P>If you could imagine yourself sitting down and talking with Jesus about your situation, what do you think he would advise? What questions would you have for him?

Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,194
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,194
Scott, <P>Thank you for the comment. If you can put your Taker on hold for a few minutes. I would like to respond to your comments. <P>Deep long trem resentment is very difficult to get past. <BR>No one understands this better than me.<P>I do have a giver that is every bit as much or more eager to give than my taker is to receive. For the last year I’ve had a problem balancing the two. I’ve been trying to tie up and gag my taker and stow him in the closest for the last few weeks but he has a nack for slipping out. <BR>Perhaps you should realize that your taker has the capability to sabotage your giver's efforts.<P>Dear Wonderful, Beautiful Love of My Life<BR>Now I’m getting excited. YEs, this is true<P>I agree that my list was overwhelming to her. <BR>--I would say that this is probably an understatement.<P>We were sharing all of our EN’s under the direction of a counselor. In all honesty I didn’t forget that she was not goal oriented, I was sharing my needs and thoughts with her using MB’s format. <BR>--Yes, you were using MB format. Unfortunately, it is not lovebuster proof. You now know that because of your wife's approach to marriage and relationships, this format is a lovebuster. What are you going to do with this information? I think that she would respond to the 10/1 ratio of positive to negative comments. <P>I sat in a divorce court a few weeks ago and heard all kinds of dirty laundry. <BR>--Scott, you have only scratched the surface. I could tell you stories that would make you tremble. <P>This helped me to realize that I do appreciate many things about my wife. <BR>--These are the very things you need to focus on and thank her for often and enthusiastically.<P>I still have long term baked on crusty resentment over EN’s not being met and LB’s. <BR>--As do I. But we both need to realize that unless a woman feels safe, loved and admired, she will be unable to meet needs and will occasionally succumb to LB's.<P>I can’t honestly say that I am thankful for the whole package.<BR>--Neither am I. However, God gave you this woman, and he expects you to take care of her just as Jesus takes care of the Church.<P>Please forgive me for even implying that I ever wanted to end our marriage. <BR>I clarified with her that I didn’t plan to leave if she didn’t perform 18 out of 18. I shared my feelings with her and I’m not sorry for being honest. Yes, she does need to feel safe. If she refuses to meet my EN’s and continues with brutal LB’s then she is not safe our marriage is not safe and I would be lying if I told her otherwise. <BR>--Scott, there is such a thing as "speaking the truth in love." You have been honest, brutally honest. You then complain because your wife has lovebusted. The last sentence is a clear threat. I don't know if you said exactly those words, but if they were in your mind while you spoke to your wife, the message was clear. <P>I guess my hurt just gets in the way, and I say things that I should not. <BR>Resentment would be a better choice of words. Might should add penis in here too.<BR>--Resentment is always a secondary emotion, subsequent to hurt. Why not talk about the hurt before it becomes resentment?<P>I know that the last counseling session was difficult for you, and I am so thankful that you have agreed to continue. There are many women who would not continue after a session like that. I greatly admire your courage.<BR>Done deal<BR>--Good!!<P>I know that you and I were together sexually before we were married, and I am truly sorry for that. We both violated the beliefs that we espouse. I think that may be part of the problem, so I would like to ask your forgiveness for that. I was immature and selfish. It was mostly my fault. <BR>This is not how I feel. I don’t regret premarital sex. I was not pursuing a quick lay, I was in love with her.<BR>--You are not sorry for engaging in premarital sex. Many people are not. I often struggle with the wish that my wife and I had had intercourse because she had a much higher sex drive then. But it would still not have been right. But the real question is whether your wife is sorry. She may very well have some very real unresolved guilt over what she done and you are a daily reminder. If she does, this could explain a lot of why she has such a problem with sex. <P>Anyway, thank you for saying that you would like to make love to me tonight, but I really see that I have hurt you. I could not bear for you to make love to me when I know that I caused you so much grief. Let's just plan for another night. The Policy of Joint Agreement dictates that unless we can enthusiastically agree to make love, we should wait. I would much prefer to wait until you truly have a desire for me and want to please me than to just make love because we planned to. <BR>To turn down her gifts is a LB for her. She was not offering mercy sex here. <BR>--Scott, what I am suggesting is not to turn down her gift. I am suggesting that you tell her that you want a deeper emotional connection than just sex. Tell her that although your body is screaming for this, your heart wants a true connection with her. <P>I have also made other foolish comments about hookers<BR>She’s the one who brings up hookers. I only speak of her. <BR>--Then you need to apologize for your behavior which led her to think that a hooker could ever satisfy you the way that she can. <P>There is not a woman in the world who could ever compare to you, and I could never imagine myself loving anyone but you.<BR>I wish that I felt this way. I shared with her what she could do to help me feel this way. This feeling comes with romantic love. My heart is in withdrawal and my mind is in conflict. <BR>--Scott, doing things that we do not feel is how we get to the places that we want to go. If you do not feel this way now, you can at least express to her that this is the way that you want to feel, and that you will do everything in your power to get there.<P>[/B][/QUOTE]<P>Lastly, the letter written by your wife was not written by a woman who will never meet your needs. It was written by a woman who wants a relationship with you. This woman has stretched her boundaries farther than she ever thought she could. It was a little over a year ago that she only made love to you twice a month, and now she is making love to you every other day. <P>Remember when you bought her the nightgown which you knew would be her choice, instead of yours? What was the result? Stop talking about your needs for a while, and just focus on how you can treat her just as Christ treated the Church. <P>I do want to caution you. If you have not already, read the posts by "Reality" in the Pregnancy/Child boards. I read them, and I really took a hard look at myself.<P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You,<BR>John<P>

Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,380
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,380
Scott,<P>I was playing around on the link Dogbert gave us to crosswalk, actually thinking about Truthseekers thread and about my quest to join my artwork with my faith. In other words, I was not thinking about you.<P>But then I stumbled on something in my search on love that got me to inckling about you. And I put together what I found troubling about your list, but couldn't quite define.<P>Admittedly the following is based on the premise (which of course isn't proven) that some of the problems in your marriage are rooted in your spiritual life (which I sense is currently out of whack).<P>I make no judgement on the items on your list, in regards to their individual or collective appropriateness in your marriage bed.<P>My unsettled inclke was your motivation, or where your desire for your listed items where rooted.<P>And although this is obviously not based in fact, I think your wife's reaction to the list, may be more her concern for where your desire is rooted. I doubt if she could verbalize this...although her hooker statements may be a clue. I am sure it is also her general distaste based on her personality, as well.<P>And what concerns me about your motivation? I get the feeling (I know I am using the wrong language with you, but I obviously don't have facts, so humor me [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]) that your desire for SF teeters over the fense to the side of lust.<P><BR>The Book of 1 Thessalonians<BR>Chapter 4<BR>Verses<P>4:4 That every one know - For this requires knowledge, as well as chastity. To possess his vessel - His wife. In sanctification and honour - So as neither to dishonour God or himself, nor to obstruct, but further, holiness; remembering, marriage is not designed to inflame, but to conquer, natural desires. <BR>4:5 Not in passionate desire - Which had no place in man when in a state of innocence. Who know not God - And so may naturally seek happiness in a creature. What seemingly accidental words slide in; and yet how fine, and how vastly important! <BR>4:6 In this matter - By violating his bed. The things forbidden, here are three: fornication, 1 Thessalonians 4:3;the passion of desire, or inordinate affection in the married state, 1 Thessalonians 4:5; and the breach of the marriage contract <A HREF="http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/WesleysExplanatoryNotes/wes.cgi?book=1th&chapter=4#1Th4_4" TARGET=_blank>http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/WesleysExplanatoryNotes/wes.cgi?book=1th&chapter=4#1Th4_4</A> <P>It is a good thing to want to have a great sex life...even a sex life of passionate abandon...even a explicit sex life. But in a manner, or for the purpose, of bring honor to your wife and marriage. And that is where I sense a disconnect or snag. I think you may have singled out and prioritized your specific sexual desires to a point where they have an unbalanced priority.<P>The idea that you felt your heart was ripped out when she initially rejected your list may indicate that your list has become so much a part of who you are at this point of time, that you felt like YOU were rejected, not just a list of needs. <P>Is it possible that your withdrawl or the heart and the unsettledness of your mind has something to do with the conflict between your faith and the priority your desires hold in your life?<P>Try prayfully going over that list with God, and see what answers you come up with.<P><BR> <P>

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
Hi TS, yes I read what you highlighted. I will also reread it several times today. <P><B>And you feel rejected because you think she just doesn't want to please you, when in actuality she wants very much to please you. </B><BR>My negative feelings come from thinking that the things on my list are against her nature and she can’t do them without feeling raped. I don’t want her to do these things under these conditions, I wouldn’t want anyone to. <P>SF, was not the only attachment to my EN’s questionnaire. I had an attachment for my other top 4 needs. Affection was #2, this need is currently an unfulfilled need, 90% of the affection is be giving her affection. One gripe I have, when she does hug me she pats me on the back like she is burping a baby. I like big bear hugs with back rubs, French kisses rather than pecks. It could be nice for her to melt into my arms and cuddle. She said a couple of days ago that SF and Affection is the same thing. She has been more open and honestly lately and she is a good mother, conversation is plagued with LB’s. We are going on vacation next week, I’m not looking forward to tho. <P><P>------------------<BR>Scott

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,993
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,993
YOU NEED GAS-hehe, but then won't your wife pull out the match??? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><BR>Ok, seriously, I have some inspiration. You have already found some attended that divorce court and seeing what others go through. <P>I am a great example of getting caught up in my needs and wants. Then, I bulldozeover my H's needs and wants, trying so desparately to poignantly announce "Here, I am a person, and need my needs validated".<P>I understand your frustration in not having needs met, sexual needs has been an ongoing demand.<P>Writing letters and communicating is something that delivers the same message you have been saying for a long time, but it is just presented in a different form. Scott,you have the eloquence of a novelist, but there will be no way to write these feelings and present them with even doses of praise and scolding without getting chastised. <BR>Your wife may only hear the "I want to have sex, and you are so nice and lovely and wonderful *BUT* you don't give me what I want. Ultimately, none of this amounts to squat because you don't fulfill my sexual needs.<P>The only way common ground will be made is to just simply replace the nagging, needy, sexually charged voice in your head with a gentler, quieter, subtle voice. You cannot and should not change your wife's fundamental beliefs...no matyter how outrageous they seem at times. You married her and chose her for a life partner, and must accept that this is the way she is. Understanding that she just may not be able to fulfill these sexual needs to the extent that you desire would help a great deal. <P>Opposites attract-bottom line. But instead of looking at your relationship as two negative magnets, prpelling eachother farther away, regard your marriage as yin and yang. What you lack she holds, and what you crave she turns away...now how do you change the concepts of yin and yang? Stop playing opposites, and model her behavior. Model her sexual frequency for a month and follow her lead. Make her comfortable with herself, with her sexual adventures with you. <P>I am sorry I am focussing so much on the sexual part of it, but I do feel this is one of your biggest controversies, isn't it? It has always been like this..od you really believe a letter will change?<P>No, approach is the key. <P>How many instances can you relate to where you have been angry or turned off by someone at work, and then it seems as though the negativity swarms the room, engulfing all around? All of a sudden, you dread going into work, or do not enjoy the presence of that person anymore. I have had many instances where I butt heads with an older co-worker, and I kept doing the same thing-going into work, grumbling behind her back, reacting when she made me angry, venting when I went home.<P>AhA! I realized that my negative cycle was making things worese, and we were feeding each others anger.<P>Once I halted that thinking, greeted her with a smile, treated her with great respect (what she wanted) and listened, she opened up to me and was more tolerant(what I wanted).<P>Perhaps this scenario is not best suited to your wife; I know she is fairly set in her ways of thinking, but perhaps to her YOU are the annoyance, the one who will not be upright at all times...and your reclined behavior has caused great turbulance in her spirit, and her perception of you...just like you, my friend.<BR>You both should find comfort that you are not alone in how you feel about <I>each other </I>.<P>Take care Scoot,<BR>Carina<P>

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,224
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,224
I am thinking that you two are very well-matched indeed. Both of you are entrenched SJ's deeply committed to their own view of reality in Black and White. <P>Fortunately Scott, you have made a world of progress since I've been here. Here is a prophecy [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]: This point right here and now seems to be the crux for you. When you are BLOCKED, creativity is mandatory, and as you persist in seeking you can achieve breakthroughs. The next few weeks will probably see a revolution in your marriage or reality.<P>

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,628
.<p>oops<p>[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: Promised Forever ]</p>

Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 95 guests, and 54 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
purple17, cbm800, Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux
71,729 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,547
Posts2,322,775
Members71,730
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5