Dj<p>First of all I just want to say I'm very proud of you for how you are sticking with things and going through this hard time. You do sound so much better.<p>I wanted to pop in about telling the MM's wife with a letter. I'm not always of the mindset that it's the right thing for the OW to tell the wife, for numerous reasons, but in this situation I think it really may be the right thing to do. Because of OW #4. Your affair being over is one thing, but in the case of a serial cheater, one that is now very possibly involved with someone else (and if that doesn't pan out, likely someone new soon), and I think the justification regarding possible STD's at the very least is a very valid one. Along with other reasons. It may be one thing if it were a one time thing due to any number of factors, a glitch or weak time, or whatever, and with the one affair over the MM may very well return full attention to his wife and marriage, but that isn't the case here. Your stepping out of the picture unfortunately doesn't help this lady too much, since her husband has a pattern of cheating and if not with you we can be pretty sure it will be someone else.<p>Tough as it would be, I think in a case like this especially she really does need to know - once she does what she does with that knowledge is up to her.<p>Just something to think about. I do understand the desire not to cause her any additional pain, I feel the same way in my situation. At least with her already suspecting it's not like this would come totally out of the blue though, not that it wouldn't be very painful. I dunno, with a serial cheater I just think most of the arguements about not telling aren't there. I'm not convinced there's much that can be done to rebuild a marriage that is faithful with that type - although there may be some here that could prove me wrong, and she does deserve to decide for herself with the facts if she can deal with that, and at the very least protect herself against possible STD's.<p>I'm hanging in there too BTW, some days are better than others. Thanks for asking [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Juanita

DJ,<p>I agree with Juanita. I don't always think telling the W is the best option. But Juanita is right.... one of the biggest problems....is the new OW. You can vouch for yourself, and chances are, his wife may have nothing to fear from you in terms of her health....but you can't vouch for this new OW, or for him, because he could have others. You just don't know, and neither does she.<p>I can tell you are kind hearted and want to cause no further harm....but sometimes it is not a choice between causing harm or not....but causing the least harm.<p>Good luck to you. I hope this hasn't made it harder....it's just such a difficult and complex situation. Hope to hear from you soon.

DJ,<p>If sending the letter to the W is causing a hangup for you, don't let it prevent or slow you down from sending the letter to him ok?<p>Hope all is well [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

djmb,
I vote for telling his W. Because it is CRAZY-MAKING to suspect, to know in your gut, to have your H look you in the eyes and LIE, to have him behave like a wounded hero and put the blame onto you for your nasty suspicious mind when he "loves you so much he would never even look at another woman that way." Meanwhile, the BS is trying to reconcile reality, which s/he sees and experiences and "knows" with the falsehood being forced down his/her throat by the WS. My psychiatrist calls that "refined torture." How many years has this poor woman been subjected to this daily emotional abuse and battery?<p>Do you know the term "gaslighting?" It comes from the movie "Gaslight" where a man set out to drive his wife insane by constantly denying and altering reality. He succeeded.<p>This is not a kind, loving man. This is a practised sadist, who is deliberately ripping wounds in his wife and pouring small amounts of acid, not salt, daily into them. By you telling her the truth, you will set her free. She has the right to know that she is NOT crazy, she is not "fat, stupid and ugly." Who, by the way, do you think is subtly feeding her the line that she is "fat, stupid and ugly?"

I remember how I felt when someone told me my then h was rumored to be unnecessarily friendly with a female coworker. It was not a high point in my life - major understatement. <p>I had no idea. I know that it was almost more than I could stand. But it made it make more sense. <p>I can't offer any advice but this brings back some dark moments for me.<p>(It was not his first EA and he readily admitted to them. Even confessed.)

Oh, one more thing, whether you tell the w or not, lose this jerk this weekend. Waiting won't make it easier. And then get an unlisted telephone number or block his telephone number. And change the cell phone number.

I really think his wife needs to know. This guy is using her big time and probably doesn't deserve to be with ANYBODY. If I were her, I'd feel so foolish knowing how many women he'd been with while married to her. Maybe it'll give him the wakeup call he needs?

I don't know of any wives who wouldn't want to know. Most people don't want to be left in the dark whether the info is painful or not.

Hi dj,<p>How are you? I wanted to say I agree with Want2Fixit, sending, or considering sending, a letter to MM's wife maybe should wait until you are stronger and on a more even keel. If considering it now seems overwhelming, wait a bit to think it over. It's most important that you continue the no contact, and continue to get stronger and emotionally seperate and sometimes when we are already shaky that one more thing can put us on overload and either cause a crash, or cause us to be immobilized. If it seems too much to consider, you can always do it later when you are stronger. It may be also that she would confront you, or want to ask you questions, and you may not be strong enough to deal with that right now.<p>It's definately a valid point worth serious consideration, but not now if it causes too much stress and pressure. <p>hang in there dj, you have a lot of cheerleaders here.<p>Juanita

Send his wife a big picture of you kissing her husband. Don't write a message, just send it. Then she would realize the truth about her "true-blue loving husband!"

dj, where are you? How are you? Please check in.

DJ,<p>How are you doing? What are your current thoughts on the letter? Hows the No contact going? Sure would like to hear from you.<p>Best Wishes

Hi DJ,<p>Someone else here just making sure you are doing okay ! And you will do okay, I hear it in your voice with each post here.<p>As for a letter to the W, I agree with you about it being painful. I waited a month or so of no contact then wrote an apology letter to her.It helped with my healing and kept me accountable on those days I just wanted him back.It has been over 4 months of no contact, and HONESTLY, every day I feel better.Mind you, the gym, better eating habits, better sleeping habits are all helping me feel better.Working on just "you" really is worth it.
Yeah.....I read lots of books, shed lots of tears, buried myself in work....... but it all helped keep me away from him.
The letter to MM was the first time he thought I was serious about not seeing him. It was not lovey-dovey, but it was kind. I did love him, and I know he loved me.But I deserved better, and I deserved more than he could give me.The hardest thing was trying to figure out what to do with the time I always spent with him.Meeting new people helped , so the gym took care of alot of my needs.I called friends I had not seen in awhile and invited them to lunch.I planned a coffee date for each of my days off, just to get me out.I parked my car in different places at work, as he always left me notes under my wipers.I was helping him by keeping the temptation away. I avoided places he would be. I specified in my letter if he ever loved me he would honour my wishes of no contact and avoid my work and my home.And he has.
Be kind, be firm and love yourself.It feels pretty good !
PS- that was one of those "been there done that" lectures!!
Take care, Mary

Hi DJ,<p>I'm concerned and would really like to hear how things are going for you. Please drop us a line! Many are here to help you throught this.<p>Best Wishes

Hello to all of my friends who are helping me through this trying time. Thank you for your concern and encouraging words!! I hope everyone is doing well.<p>Things are going ok. The no contact is still in effect (at least from my end). I have not answered any of his messages. Our paths did cross one day on the street; he gave me his usual big smile, beep and a wave. As I expected, the phone range soon after, but again I did not answer.<p>It surprises me the way my feelings have changed. That change must be part of my growing stronger. I will never reach the point of not loving him. (Yes, I'll always love that sweet, caring guy he appeared to be.) It is hard to explain my feelings now. The thought of him with OW disgusts me. While my love for him is still there, now there is a numbness as well (if that makes any sense at all).<p>I am firm in my decision to have no contact. I know that resisting his calls and emails is making me even stronger. Today is one of those downer days...and I miss him tremendously, but don't want to see or talk to him. Sometimes I wish it was possible to go back and re-do the past 2+ years. I did value his friendship and the many things we had in common. I wouldn't have let it become physical, I'd just keep it as friends with nothing more. But there is no going back...only moving forward.<p>I'm sorry, but I haven't given him the letter yet. I'm not sure I want his wife to read it, so I thought about leaving it under the wiper of his car while he's at work. Think that would be ok???<p>I DO agree with everyone as to why his wife should know. If I were in her situation, I would want to know, no matter how painful it would be. She does deserve the apology letter from me, and I will try to draft one soon. Even though it will not change what has happened, I will feel better having her know that I'm truly sorry for what I've done.<p>Juanita and MaryRN, it looks like some of your strength and willpower in having "been there done that" (no contact) has finally rubbed off on me! Bad days like today will happen, but we cope. And, I guess each one of these bad days make us stronger in the long run.<p>Juststartingover, I had seen the movie "Gaslight" years ago. It is scary to think that a person could be so vicious to try to deceive reality for their own benefit; it is even scarier to think a spouse could do it.<p>And, Want2FixIt, I like your signature line....looking at my situation, I think my test was whether or not to become involved with MM....the lesson I learned was that I shouldn't have fallen in love. In my case, I failed the test and learned a very painful lesson in the process!! <p>Thanks again everyone! I'll keep you posted.

Hi DJ,<p>I'm glad to see you are staying strong. Even your weak moments are stronger than you used to be so that is major progress! <p>As far as the letter, I think leaving it on his car should work fine, but you have to be absolutely sure he gets it because you can't be left wondering if he really got it or not. Can you mail it to his work registered mail and have him sign for it?<p>Stay strong and keep posting! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

DJ<p>I have to tell you as the BS of a man who did to me EXACTLY what he did with you (no others...just the one), telling her would help her tremendously.<p>You don't have any idea what it's like to be on the receiving end of knowing you are not crazy, but unable to prove it. <p>To hear your H say he's tired of having to answer for something he's not doing...and that being accused of it makes him feel like all the love he has for you means nothing to you. To hear him say that your paranoid delusions make it hard to stay loving toward you...you get the point<p>Then to have proof...to KNOW you aren't crazy. It's the greatest destroyer of life and the the greatest giver of relief...On the one hand you now know you are NOT crazy...on the other hand life as you know it will NEVER be the same, not ever, not with anyone. Although you will never give of yourself in the same way again you can begin to sort out and find all the pieces of your life.<p>For her? It hasn't even begun...she's still wrestling with her own belief system...and he's destroying her little by little.<p>Does this help you to know what you have helped to do, and why it may be so important to offer her the life jacket?<p>It's not going to be pretty and she's not going to care for you much at first..but she will also remember you were the one who came forward and tried to help. Don't end it with telling her either...offer her in any way she will let you to make it up to her as a human being...she may not take your help...but at least you can let her know you want to make amends.<p>I hope this taught you a lot about yourself<p>Heide

Hi DJ, cyberhug and support vibes for your continuing strength and growth.<p>Remember I mentioned "Gaslight" and you said you'd seen the movie? Heide describes only too well what it's like. My ex-H was like this with both his drinking and his infidelity. He'd look me in the eye and swear he hadn't been drinking - when he came home stinking of booze at 5am. Or insist that he'd only had TWO beers because he was thirsty and it wasn't really 5am anyway, he'd been home for hours and I'd just slept through his arrival.... He'd deny outright that he had said or done something, in the teeth of the evidence or the presence of witnesses. When a woman phoned our unlisted number, asked for him by his nickname, was horrified when I said I was his wife and said "That can't be! MY .... isn't married!" he first accused me of lying when I told him about the call. When the kids backed me up that it had occurred and my side of the conversation, he said it was a wrong number. When I said she called you ..... he started screaming and accusing me of being crazy, neurotic, hysterical, driving him to drink, killing his love for me... just as Heide describes. If this is not Gaslighting, what is it? Strange how my ex-H also used to go on about me being fat when he was being offensive to be defensive; seems to be par for the course! I'm 5'6" tall and at that time I weighed 110lb. Not anywhere near obese, right?<p>MM is most definitely gaslighting his W. She has a right to daylight, to know that she is NOT crazy, stupid or fat. Especially seeing you are one in a series. what a nasty nasty situation, and I am truly sorry you are caught up in it.

I haven't posted anything on this thread yet because everyone is already saying what I wanted to say, but I've been watching closely.<p>Wake up DJ!!!!!!!!!!!!
It has been a month and a half since your first post. Why have you not severed this guy off? It's so tiring to keep hearing about how much you still love him (or at least what he wanted you to be in love with). You even said once that he's the only "man" (I don't think he knows the meaning) that you even considered having children with!! I would normally consider you completely nuts, but I don't because you recognize that that would never happen (even if he wasn't fixed). He would never let something like that happen!! Then he would be committed to you!!! He's a control freak---I nut job!!!<p>I totally agree with AGG on just about everything he's said to you previously. You have to realize that you HAVE to take some action in your life. And I won't even get started on you trying to help him with his wife's b-day!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Write the letter to him and then tell his wife. They both deserve it. Take your life back!!!<p>Carpe diem

I would not be happy if you were making love to MY husband. NO WAY NO HOW! But I would want to know who is having sex with MY lawful husband. Please send a nice little note to the wife telling of all her husbands infidelities with you and how many years you and he have been having sex. It is the least you can do! Even if you continue the affair, which I don't care if you do, since you are only making yourself more miserable, you could notify the wife, maybe she will leave him and then he will have only you TWO woman to make love with instead of three. In fact, notify the other lover also of the other man making love with you! Maybe you can get rid of both the women and have him (in all his evil glory) for yourself.<p>[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: baba2 ]</p>