A range of things, but as I have learned through IC this year, it was fear. Fear that I made a mistake, fear that I failed, fear that I wasn't the man, husband, father I should or could be.

For example, if I tried to repair something and failed, rather than chalking it up to a learning experience and being okay with not fixing the thing, I'd get bent because I thought I was letting my wife down, embarrassed by the failure, then believe that my wife found me worthless. I'd get angry and then knowing that I for angry I would withdraw and isolate believing that no way wife would want me around or want to interact with me.

Can you be very specific and give me examples of your angry outbursts? Would you get angry at your wife? Angry at the postman? What? What did they do they triggered it in you.

I was all over the place.

One example was earlier this year when I was moving a wire so I could shift the thermostat from one wall to another. I was in our crawlspace working and I messed something up. My wife was directly above me on the first floor. I started verbally berating myself and out loud said something like, "I'm not like the OM or an ex boyfriend of hers, so why am I trying to do stuff like this."

Another time was a few years ago when I had planned a date night for us at a local comedy club. When we got to the club and checked in, the host explained that we were late and besides there were no more seats. I replied that there announcement stated a start time and we arrived before that time and we had reserved our seats. There was nothing he could do he said. In that moment I lost my temper and loudly said f this, we arrived on time and have tickets and proceeded to turn around and walk out. I thought my wife followed but she stayed behind. As I crossed the lobby of the club I was talking our loud that I shouldn't even be planning this kind of stuff. I waited outside for my wife and when she came out I loudly and angrily restated my case and frustration. She was upset not just at the outburst, but that I walked out without her. On the drive home I verbally berated myself as a tool for thinking I could plan a date night.

In both instances, I felt embarrassed and humiliated and shame. I couldn't imagine that although this was a minor mistake moving an electrical line or a misunderstanding about times and tickets, that each events was not a disaster. Yeah, I used to catastrophize everything.

Gotcha. The reason I asked is that, while there is no excuse for angry outbursts, it is not uncommon for a spouse to actively and purposely do things to trigger anger in the other spouse. For example, my H used to have angry outbursts. He eliminated his angry outbursts but I had to stop doing the things that triggered it. I had pretty extreme independent behavior. For example, I went out and bought a new Jeep once and called him from the dealership just as I was signing the papers. He was very angry and asked me to leave the dealership immediately. I would do things like this on a regular basis and then accuse him of being "controlling" when he objected to my thoughtless behavior.

I used to have angry outbursts just like you [so did Dr Harley] and the key was to retrain my brain to not feel rage when I was frustrated. it is not enough to "not act out;" the solution is to not go there in the first place. Because when I felt rage, I was insane. The key is not feel the rage anymore. Did you learn this in your anger management? Because some don't teach this lesson.

Nope. In neither IC or anger mgmt therapy did I learn how to not rage. I was provided tools and techniques to cope with that anger which, I now know, was simply masking or covering up the anger. Hence, the cycles I described earlier. I'd go to counseling or anger mgmt for several sessions and my behaviors wouldnchange. Is suppress the anger, rage so it didn't show, but inevitably it would build and build and having no way to process it out, ultimately, I'd relapse into first passive aggressive behavior and then to angry outbursts or withdrawal and isolation. I am now learning how to process events without getting to anger. But all of this seems to be rooted in depression which I am also actively addressing.

The rage can be managed outside of your depression by using relaxation techniques. Once you learn to relax, your brain will essentially be “rewired” so you don’t even FEEL the rage anymore. When I encounter frustrating situations now, I go right to the part of my brain that works on solutions. I will see if I can find Dr Harley’s comments on this.

Dr Harley warns that if your anger management coach is not starting with relaxation techniques you need to move on.

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/angry-outbursts.htm

Are you taking anti depressants for your depression?

Yes

I've been working some emdr and somatic techniques with my IC and also relaxation.

Perfect. I am amazed at how using relaxation techniques completely changed the way I respond to frustration. It is been a real game changer.

Interacted with my wife last night. Came home from work in a cherry good mood. Was present. Unlike prior 2 weeks where I was basically dark.

I asked how her day was and had a positive conversation about some changes at work. She also asked me about mine and I was positive about it (doing best not to be so down about work), but no follow up. Her asking me is very unusual in the last couple of months. She also said good night to me which hasn't happened in more than a week or so.

Going to work hard on validating her feelings, being present during conversations, etc. But don't understand how to get into fulfilling her needs cuz I haven't identified those, yet.

I kinda wish I could do the plan b letter now. I've seen some versions which I respond to like, yeah, that's what I want to say to my wife right now.

She doesn't know, explicitly, that I know of the no contact request from the OM. She might suspect because she knows I can see her emails, she just doesn't know how I am getting to them. She hasn't told me that the OM requested no contact.

The OMs wife volunteered that the OM requested no contact and during a later call, OMW stated that she had talked to OM about going no contact as a way forward to their recovery and he followed that up by scheduling marriage counseling.

What's weird is, while only a day, my wife and the OM have gone no contact, so I'm confused about exposure now. I think exposure is still viable because it is supposed to shut down the affair in the present, but also harm the chances that it reignites later.

So I'm still on the exposure path and the reasoning is that it gets my side of the story out, requests support, and has the chances that it rekindles...

Do I still hit the OMs friends and family even though he has initiated no contact?

Do I contact the OM?

I read this article this morning - https://www.marriagebuilders.com/when-to-call-it-quits-part-1.htm

My wife could have been Plan A'ing me but went to separation, affair, and now divorce. I'm struggling how I can apply this to my situation. In each case, the other spouse wasn't on their way out, just (not to minimize it) neglecting the marriage.

Or maybe this article doesn't have a lesson for my current situation.

Very good!! This is what you need to do. Just be positive.


She likely will not allow you to meet her needs because she is checked out. The needs you should focus on are her intimate emotional needs, conversation and affection. Conversation is a GREAT WAY to open the door.



Plan B is only for separations after you have tried Plan A for a long time. You can't do Plan B unless you live apart.


This is good news,but you need to get exposures done. You need to get them done so you can move onto next steps.


Yep!

That article doesn't apply here.

And let's say it DID apply, the solution is the same. YOU would go into Plan A.

Oh, I know Plan B doesn't apply, yet. I just liked some of the letters. But I understand that the letter only works after doing Plan A.

Thanks for clarifying the applicability of that article. I've been looking for some Plan A experiences or situations similar to my own just to get some practical ideas on how to meet emotional needs when the other spouse is checked out.

You id'd 2 above, conversation and affection.

The conversation part...easy.

The affection part...uh, what? I think of that and think about physical touch, loving words like I love you, I appreciate you stuff. I'm anxious just thinking about it afraid that she'd recoil or verbally respond in a strong way. What would affection look like with a checked out spouse or in my scenario?

Affection is also doing things like preparing a meal, smiling at her, little favors of kindness that you are pretty sure she would appreciate. Might be calling her or texting once or twice to see how she's doing. Beyond the emotional need for affection: Look great, smell nice. Tell her she looks pretty and other genuine complements every so often.

Interesting text exchange this afternoon. We bought our home about 18 months ago. Our loan servicer called two months to talk about reducing interest rate. They called today and offered a half percent reduction and that would save about $120 month. It's a no brainier with no cost to us.

Now, my wife isn't on the mortgage. So I texted her about the offer and that I'd be accepting it tonight unless she saw a real problem with it or thought of something I missed.

I started my text to her by noting the awkwardness of bringing it up. Her reply to me:

"It is an awkward time, I'm not sure how to respond. i want to trust that you are doing this in good faith but it doesn't feel like you are. i know you want to stay in the house and and have full custody of the boys, at least that is what you have stated. With this change are you taking my name off everything? it feels like you are paving the road to put me out and take the boys away. The deal looks amazing and would be better financially for the family".

Embedded in the offer is an option to skip a payment in December. And she texts back...
"what do you intend to do with the skip payment in December? can we use it for mediation fees?"

Followed by...
"do the deal since it's a no brainer, is there something you need from me to finalize the transaction?"

I replied back:
"I have no intention with the skip payment. I ran this by you to get feedback. I don't need anything from you for complete the transaction."

To which she replied:
"thanks for asking me and running it by me even though it seems like you can do it without me sounds like you know what you are doing".

Hell yes I know what I am doing. Restructuring the mortgage on our house ain't a small thing so I wanted to ensure I at least have her a heads up.

But hell no the skip payment doesn't pay for mediation. She'll pay her part from her check and I'll pay my part.

Well, I did do the dishes last night after supper (she gets home at 330, so she's been prepping meals during the week. I've been on duty during the weekends.

Thank you for the suggestions.

You will look for opportunities to be affectionate as you warm her up with conversation. Conversation is a great way to build back an emotional attachment. I will post the thread of a police officer who won his wife back after he did a great job of busting up her affair and then meeting her needs. [she was "done" and wanted a divorce too] They are happily recovered now. here This man's case was one of the most extreme, but he did a stellar job in Plan A. And there is no such as a perfect Plan A. Most WS's will not allow you to meet her needs, so you just have to be creative.

You will find more and more opportunities to become emotionally attached after you expose the affair. Exposing the affair will have the effect of shutting down any future hopes for her and OM. That will turn her mind back to YOU. She will be furious at first, but as her hopes for the affair die off, you will be the more attractive option.