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Hello,
I'm laying it out here....all of it. Because I'm at the point where I don't know if I should continue trying to invest in this marriage...if I'm being selfish, unreasonable, and should call a spade a spade.

Been married 27 years, to my high school sweetheart. She is truly the love of my life. Want no other, desire no other, and 27 years and two kids later she still rocks my world....
For the last ten years, it's been a struggle. Basically, little by little, my wife has lost interest and been cutting me off emotionally, physically, affectionately...menopause has been a big part of that in recent years too.
Why am I here....I don't have much option. Since growing up and old together, my friends are her friends. So there is not a lot of option to discuss with friends. She doesn't believe anything is wrong, so she doesnt believe in marriage counseling.
Background...I'm total dedication to love and family. To the point that after some issues with friends and their infidelity early on, I knew I never wanted her to even THINK I could be out there doing something like that. So I modified my life style as such. I'm at home. With my family where I should, want, and need to be. If we are out with friends, we are together, so there can never be worry of stupid rumors or anything. Sounds drastic? Maybe. But it was a very easy decision to make. No I don't smother. She goes shopping with her girl friends. I have a work shop, I work on projects and such. It's just a point of knowing where I'm NOT. I also come from a nasty divorced family. So I made my mind up before I put the ring on, that I would go to the ends of the earth fighting before letting my kids go through what I did.

Affection...started back at that 10 year ago mark. She all of the sudden decided that she didn't like to kiss me anymore. Then intimacy started to suffer little by little. First it was we need to be quick, then the dry spells started. Then it became a rejection issue. To the point where she would be really agitated on any advance. Now it's been two years since she has wanted anything to do with me.

Communication... I have brought it up over the years so many times. Ranging from positive comments trying to encourage, to expressing my anger, all the way to a few drunken, complete break downs. She will tell me she understands, and will try...but nothing ever happens, and the next day it is like the conversation never happened. She truly feels like there is nothing wrong with our relationship. She isn't nasty about it. It's just not anything she desires anymore.
We are crowding 50. I have a "dad bod" and I would say she has a "mom bod". And I'm totally ok with any and all blemishes, bumps...you name it. I simply don't get bothered by anything like that. She's beautiful in my eyes at 115 or 350! I compliment her, and tell her how beautiful she is. Both from a sweet stand point, all the way to much more explicit versions. All genuine.

But being room mates is not what I want. I want and yearn for her touch. To feel relevant in her life. Needed. Wanted. Desired. I have been trying to reconnect. I try to get her to go to the movies together. Have recommended going away on quick trips. Many other things to try and be spontaneous, and rekindle something...anything.

I'm constantly angry about it now days. I have nightmares of us having fights about it. I have nightmares of being away from my kids if we got divorced.

I have been reading the journey of threads from the "start here" thread. Ironically, I don't feel like it paints our picture so far. I know my wife inside and out, and she isn't the typical gal that has ever expressed the need of emotional this, and emotional that. Quite frankly, that's always been more me. Probably going back to a severely jacked up family life growing up.


I think that mostly sums it up. So I ask. When is enough enough? I don't want ultimatums. But I feel like one is in order to some extent.
Having never spoken to anyone about this before, aside from her...I'm really curious as to what will be said here. And nervous.

Cheers,
OntheRocks

Last edited by OnTheRocks; 10/03/22 10:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by OnTheRocks
So I ask. When is enough enough?
Have you reached the stage where enough is enough for you?


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I have. Many times. Or at least I have thought so. Yet here I am...many times later.
Problem is like I said. I can't fathom the thought of being away from my kids, and quite honestly....her. I don't have any desire for it to be over. But often, I wonder for my own mental and emotional health, if I need to go.

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If I understand correctly, your wife displayed a clear and obvious revulsion for physical contact with you 10 years ago.

You don't know the reason for that, but you should understand that there was/is a reason. No longer wanting to kiss a spouse doesn't just happen over time. There might have been something about you that suddenly became repulsive, but it might also have been that she had an affair and wanted the other person - but was in no position to make a life with them. The OW in my marriage was like that to her husband. I spoke to him and he told me he never understood why she hadn't been able to stand him for years, having freely chosen to marry him. It turned out that there had been several affairs as she tried to use other men to get out of her marriage. The problem for her was that if most men want to make a life with someone, they don't choose to do it with someone who is married. A married, desperate woman is good for sex, and that's what they took advantage of.

There could have been one or more affairs in your marriage.


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I cannot help with any useful MB plan advice as the attempts I have made over the years to follow a MB style approach hasn't seemed to have worked for me because my wife hasn't been convinced there is a problem that needs fixing in the first place and that the MB program would be a thing for her anyway. After all if you have all that you want already (and are happy just being roommates, but will never admit that is actually what things have amounted to) why change? I can however identify with some of the feelings you have expressed and the quandary you find yourself in, it seems so similar to feelings I have, and still do go through.

I wonder if you are only finding the sexual fulfillment side of your marriage the problem or are there more issues in other areas of your relationship like recreational companionship and intimate conversation that are also breaking down? If it is more than the sexual component then my comments here are probably not relevant.

For me it is mainly sexual fulfillment that is a problem and there seems no way to work around the significant misalignment of sexual interest between two individuals. No amount of safe discussion seems to be able to resolve a poor sexual compatibility mismatch and lift a libido that doesn't seem to exist anymore. I never really understood what libido was until I had to start taking medication for an enlarged prostrate that has had a perceived side effect of reducing my libido and I'm still sure that I cannot grasp what menopause does to some women. However something has to give when there is a mismatch and I think it is the one with the greatest need that ends up sacrificing to keep an otherwise good relationship stable.

But be aware that if you do not resolve things now you will find the resentment builds (mostly subconsciously) and burrows into your soul until you find yourself laying in bed next to your wife in another 15 years time avoiding any touch because it is a resentment trigger and you wonder how you ended up having such a sexless life.

From my experience the question you are really asking yourself now is not 'When is enough enough?' but 'When is a good enough marriage good enough?'. I think MB postulates there is not enough value in a 'good enough marriage' and you need to aim for and achieve better than good enough or start again. Eventually it feels just too late to do that.

I found this quote from the following article quite instructive:

“Concessions that people make around sex can feel like 1000 paper cuts. You don’t notice any of them until you are really bleeding.’ ”
***edit***

Last edited by Ariel; 10/05/22 10:29 AM. Reason: Removing non MB link
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On the rocks, welcome to MB! Have you read this article? It recommends a productive way to have a conversation about the root issue, what do each of you want from sex and how would you like to have it so that you can plan it in a way that meets this need that makes you both happy. As it explains she would likely say at the end of an evening where you two are alone together and someone else is taking care of the kids. I totally think you are on the right track suggesting with a trip away together. Now to make it happen. You are not starting from scratch.

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/th...-husband-receive-the-sex-he-needs-in.htm


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
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Thanks for the input everyone. To try and answer the questions...
To my knowledge, there has never been any affairs. Our lifestyle in general....would make it difficult on either side. Impossible? I won't be naive. It wasn't so much over night. Neither of us lock our phones, laptops, ipads or anything, unless it's required. And if so, we know each other's password.

Kissing was a gradual thing, and then eventually she just told me how she felt about it. But to be fair also, she has never been huge on "making out", and foreplay. Nor has she ever been REAL adventurous....


Fulfillment. Well, it goes without saying that the physical fulfillment is lacking. But for me, it's everything else that is just as important, if not more. I have always believed that sex wasn't really the end game. But more of a bonus if all else is going right. A bi-product...
When we were younger, we connected. We enjoyed BEING together. If she went somewhere, "Come with me!".... If I went somewhere...same story. If we sat and watched TV, we had to sit by each other, and be touching. Nothing sexual there. Just connection. We talked about everything. Now days, she sits on the other end of the couch. And the conversations are non existent.

I started to chase all the links in the start here thread. Last couple of days have been hectic, hence my delayed response here. But I will continue to read up, and yes I did read that one already.
Knowing my wife, she would take that article the wrong way, and feel like that receptical it discusses.

Also, is there a thread that has a list of all the acronyms used here? I'm seeing stuff like this all over, and its a bit confusing trying to decipher.

MB - Marriage Builders
OW - old wife?
OD - Older/est Daughter?
YD - Younger/est Daughter?
PA - ??
BW - ??

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To add.... I'm more worried about regaining that connection, and feeling close, than I am about just sex. Like I said above, I believe that the one contributes to the other.
But even if I had to continue down the abstinent path, I would much rather it be with a companion than a room mate.

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Originally Posted by OnTheRocks
Also, is there a thread that has a list of all the acronyms used here? I'm seeing stuff like this all over, and its a bit confusing trying to decipher.

https://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php/topics/1984040/acronyms-abbreviations.html

Feeling like just room mates for the rest of your life sucks.

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Originally Posted by OnTheRocks
When we were younger, we connected. We enjoyed BEING together. If she went somewhere, "Come with me!".... If I went somewhere...same story. If we sat and watched TV, we had to sit by each other, and be touching. Nothing sexual there. Just connection. We talked about everything. Now days, she sits on the other end of the couch. And the conversations are non existent.
There is a reason for this, and it isn't a lack of libido. She doesn't talk to you or want anything to do with you; that isn't because she has no sex drive. If she wanted a platonic marriage, there would at least be friendship and companionship from her.

Something has happened in your marriage to bring this about, and you are the only person that can find out what it was/is. I can't believe that in all these years she has never explained what has made her so unhappy. I know you have lost your rag with her about this, but what have you asked her, calmly and without threat that you will lose your temper, and what has she replied? Did you ever ask her 10 years ago why she didn't like to kiss you any more?

It just doesn't make sense that you are asking us. Surely you have asked her.


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I agree with SugarCane.

What has she told you all these years? What did she say when she stopped kissing you? Surely you have asked? What did she say?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.




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