I know that there are many of you out there whose spouses have ended the affair. You feel that you can't talk about the pain that still bleeds inside of you. You are supposed to be the lucky ones.<BR>Please reach out! Please ask for help through the recovery. You can't do it alone. <BR>Don't be ashamed that you are not automatically healed becuase the affair is "over". Please don't be ashamed to vent your feelings. <BR>I know many of you think that you are feeling sorry for yourself because you can't get over the pain. Others will try to tell you that you should be happy.<BR>There is fear, There is sadness, there are things that have to be dealt with.<BR>People will tell you to get on with it. You are so lucky to be with your spouse. People will try to minimize what you have gone through. Ignore them. Don't try to be what someone says you should be. <BR>To all. Please help those in recovery.<BR>During the affair, a person has strength, purpose, adrenalin that keeps you going. <BR>After it is "over" there is so much residual pain left that was never dealt with. Triggers that won't go away. Everyone needs support.<BR>My Xmas wish for everyone - that you all find a new kind of peace, happiness.....<P>Please remember that pain is pain - even though it may be different than yours. <P>

Can't believe this topic came up. I'm sitting here thinking I wish there was someone to talk to. <BR>Everyone is tired of hearing me go on and on about this thing. Friends have been there but they just want life to get back to normal. <BR>So do I, but what is normal anymore? I'm so tired of the continual struggle to keep my own spirits up and not LB as well. I am just tired period.<BR>This isn't a good day anyway. I told my H we don't have a life anymore. Sure, we're together but it seems we live side by side.<BR>The affair put us in the "survival mode" for so long and now we're suppose to go on and be a couple, HOW?<BR>It seems that everything eventually comes back to the affair. An argument or difference of opinion can spark an ugly reminder. I'm not sure after all this time if we can get beyond it. I love my H but something died and I can't find a way around it.<BR>Thanks for the topic WS, its good to know others in recovery get tired too.<P>Sorry to be a downer for any of the Newbies!<BR><P>------------------<BR>love is blind<P>

Taj<BR>Don't ever be sorry to be a downer please!!!<BR>If you don't deal with the pain it just festers.<BR>I compare it to a sliver. If you don't get rid of the sliver, it may heal over but the infection is still there.<BR>I don't know how you become normal again. I know that there are many wise people here that have managed it. <BR>Every situation is different. <BR>I am looking at 4 months since the last known contact and 8 years of pain preceding that. I'm not sure I have the strength for this. Tired too......<BR>Please talk to everyone here. There are many people who care. Your pain is real.<BR>Like going to surgery. It takes time to recover. You don't just walk out healed.<BR>Prayers!!!!!1

I'm so glad you brought this up--I was feeling like I didn't have much to complain about because he wants to stay with me and he's been so wonderful. But then, I thought he was wonderful before while all this was going on; I never had a clue! Every time he tells me loves me or that I'm wonderful, I remember he said that to me while he was having the affiar, too. So what should be joyful is sullied and tarnished. Do you ever reach a point where you can hear words of love without automatically thinking, "yes, but..."? Sometimes, I wonder if I'm completely gullible for forgiving him as quickly as I did--I mean, he did everything that they're supposed to do to prove that they're making the marriage a priority, but I worry that because I forgave him so quickly, he'll do it again. I hear women saying "man, I would NEVER forgive a man who did that to me, never." and I wonder if I'm very good, or just very stupid.

Thanks, I need to see that I am not the only one needing to vent. A once honest marriage full of trust, now every minute apart is full of doubts, where were you?, did you call him? etc...<P>I miss the old us. And I HATE the OM. Even though I have been put through hell I could never hate my wife... is that a defense mechanism? A potential for love? I hope so..<P>LB is too easy, I only wish for an equal chance, one that i am not just told I got way back. "I am here, I want to give it my all!!"<P>Please<P>Thanks for listening<P>

Barrie, WS<P>The forgiving is the easy part its the forgetting that takes time! I'm beginning to wonder if we are crazy to even begin to think that forgetting is possible. It may be somewhere more in the line of "acceptance". I've used the Serenity prayer more times then I can count. "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change". <P>I have gone through counseling, anti-depressants, major lovebusting(ugh), confrontation with the OW.......then on to the Harley way of restoring the marriage. We certainly have done better with the latter but its not a magic potion. Hard work and committment seem to be endless with little reward initially. I wish I could go back and change everything, thats the only way to erase the pain.<P>My H never went into what the Harleys describe as withdrawal. He hasn't missed a beat except to have to deal with a heartbroken wife. I don't want him to suffer but it seems we are falling back into some familiar patterns which could lead down that long slippery slope. My H has gone to several couseling sessions but they seem to of mainly dealt with my hurt. I fear we never uncovered the "Why" of the affair and that<BR>really scares me. I don't know what else to do, it seems I've done it all. The prayer forum (women's bible study) is helping me alot thru this phase of recovery. Its in God's hands anyway.

i want so bad to go back to being the happy couple we were once, and i hate myself for my doubts and screaming. i finally just yelled at him today..as he was on the cell phone, out 'christmas shopping', "I JUST WANT TO BE WITH YOU!!! DON'T LEAVE ME ALONE ANYMORE", and he said, 'why didn't you say so?' gee, i thought i had, but i guess i didn't. he leaves at least most of the day, at least one day, almost every weekend..MAYBE takes one of the kids to 'give me a break'. i dont' want to have a "break" i want my family to be together on the few minutes he is away from work. everytime he left before, to be with OW, he blamed it on my being grumpy. well, now he STILL keeps leaving, no matter how i act, so i am just a ***** all the time, wondering what plans he's making without me. i feel like this is never going to end!!! i'd rather get a divorce than have the man i love reject me constantly, and wonder if he is lying to me again....<BR>thanks for letting me vent, i needed this.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.alladvantage.com<BR>ID#" TARGET=_blank>www.alladvantage.com<BR>ID#</A> atp-113<P>

What does LB mean??<P>Ugh! I hate feeling this way.<P>I want things to be the way they used to be too! I want to not think twice when he goes to the video store, to get the mail, to work--auggh! I want to not look at every woman with short, blond hair (the only detail I know about her) and wonder if it's her? I hate this. Sometimes I just want to slap him. Again. :-)<P>

Thank ou Was-<BR>As you know, we are wellinto recovery...10 months and doing better than I ever imagined. But, the pain is still there. Little triggers...and I do feel like I do not have much to complain about. I am so gretful to have "us" back!<P>BTW, I talked to the OW last week at a party, and we hugged in front of all their (H and OW's) co-workeds, I think they about fell on the floor! I have forgiven her, and him...I guess. How are you ever sure? The pain is still there, not a day goes by that I do not think about it. But, I am happier than I have ever been in my life. I am living consciously, insted of floating, as I did before.<P>Thanks for the encouragement!<P>------------------<BR>You will be stronger because of this.<P>

Wow, Sally you read my mind. I never thought about it but I know that when I finally forgave him, it was like a load had been lifted. Maybe now I need to forgive her too? Maybe just in spirit? After all she's still actively trying to screw things up for us.

Barrie,<P>LB(lovebusting)! Doing anything which takes away from the oposite, love deposits. Its all in Dr. Harley material/\. I am reading "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. Have read all of his articles on the web and am finally getting around to the book.<P>I sat with the OW and told her I forgave her. It helped at the time and I was sincere. What would really help is if she could ever realize what she did in going after and trapping my H. She thinks it was ok because he was "soooooooo Needy". Yuk! THat is the epitome of justifying ones actions and I call it plain old harlotry. <P>Moan, Vent, Whine. It doesn't really help but sometimes it is necessary.<P>------------------<BR>love is blind<P>

Oh good. Venting is my specialty. Last night, I was looking for a place jsut like this but stumbled instead onto a discussion support area for OP!! There was all kinds of tips and tricks for getting away with it, posts from and to OW consoling each other because "MM is with his family for Christmas". I knew I shouldn't be reading it, but I couldn't tear myself away! then I felt awful, and had this sudden need to run. So I ran outside and up and down the hill behind my apartment a couple times. It felt great, and I felt peaceful and powerful afterwards.

Hi All, Ahhh, a great topic. Pain is pain is pain is pain.....and we all have it!! <BR>Gads Barrie, glad you keep your fingers shut on that other site. Sorry, I have no sympathy for those that got themselves into this situation on the op board. <BR>I can say I have forgiven my h, but have to go along with taj...how do we really know at this phase? I feel like the test for that is many yrs away. Forgiveness with my h is more clear-he is working on his issues, he is remorseful, he has changed. The ows have shown none of the above, so though forgivenesss is for ourselves, I feel that they are not worth the effort at this time. Maybe will feel different some day? Cannot work on everything at once and my marraige is more important right now!<BR>Recovery is hard ws. Really really hard. I think sally, you and I are all about at the same time frame? Taj and barrie? Sometimes I get so tired...just too tired to think I can keep working on things.<BR>My h sends me e-mail telling me to stop working on the marriage, that everything is wonderful, has always been and always will be. Well, I am glad he feels so good about it! But I am not comfortable with things the way they are quite yet. Sure things are great, but I know they could be better, so I have to keep striving for that. <BR>Some ways I cope with recovery...getting rid of any triggers that are mobile! Hard to move a building or level a city, but a shirt, picture, chair, particular phone, etc can all be trashed without a second thought. H and I have gone to some of the places that were reserved for ow meetings. Now I can claim those places as ours, they are no longer places 'they' went. I still have issues with mexico, panama city, and atlanta, but am okay with the rest. I read a lot of positive motivators to keep me focused. I try to keep my head clear of the trash...and it is really hard to do!Seems that if I try doing nice things for h, it is easier to sty focused. <BR>Still have terrible pms since all this started and want to crawl in a hole every month!! <BR>WS???

cl <BR>there are places that they went that I haven't gone yet because each time we I try to go I feel ill--he's so at ease and knows his way around them, and I know why. should I force myself through the ill feeling or wait and listen to when I feel ready?

hi barrie, I think I would give things a bit more time if I were you. Don't force it, don't try to rush things. Took me a long time to enter those places and I am glad I waited til I felt strong and powerful. I needed that strength-it was very hard.<BR>Almost felt militant taking back what was mine-taking back what was ours!

cl I really wanted to post a smiley face in my message to you but I don't know how to do it!! <BR>so here: :-) thanks, you sound like a woman after my own heart with all that "taking back what's ours" stuff. we'll be living here for about 7 months and then we'll move again, to gether, to a completely new place. I can't WAIT!!

CL,<P>Triggers, eeeeeh gaaaaaads, a million of them. How do you exorcise your marriage of a person who tried to take over your life. Drive by a place, each and every holiday, toys purchased for your grandchildren(that is the corker). Every time I pack his lunch I remember she packed it for him too and he decided which one was the best! I sometimes wish I could have a lobotomy!!!!<BR>Will not go to places they went, just will not. One thing though, they were pretty much stuck in her run down apartment for fear someone would see them. Thats one good thing about a small town <P>Hardest thing though is to realize that she shared so much with my H that was mine. The feeling of violation is consuming at times. <P>Sold everything I could that was a reminder, our house, our RV, trashed every piece of clothing and paraphenalia she gave him. We worked hard for all that stuff and I even resent having to sell it. Guess I have a few more things to work through huh!!!!

Taj, I just read your profile and my heart goes out to you. I have to ask you something I've been afraid to ask him: I want him to get rid of the bed. Do you think that's unreasonable? She was with him on it.<p>[This message has been edited by Barrie (edited December 12, 1999).]

Barrie,<P>If I sold the house and she was in it. I sold the RV which they did their thing in. I would probably light a funeral fire with the bed they were in!!!!! Fortunately( if I can believe the story) they never "used" our bed. Violated is violated!<P>------------------<BR>love is blind<P>

My husband and I are in the situation you described here: In recovery, but still suffering. I would like to share a suggestion that was the first helpful thing I did. I got the idea from reading a book by John Gray, I believe the title is "What You Can Feel, You Can Heal".<P>My husband was the betrayer, but we are both suffering with the pain caused by infidelity. The pain of being betrayed by the person that you love most in the world cannot be described, but is shared by many of us here. To begin to heal, it is important that suffering be acknowledged and dealt with. One of our greatest obstacles was that my husband wanted me to just "get over it" and move on. He would apologize for hurting me, but did not truly acknowledge my feelings, and I could not accurately describe those feelings. I also constantly reminded him of the pain I was in.<P>After reading the book, I knew I had to fully define my feelings so that I could deal with them, and that it was important to stop talking about them continuously. So I wrote my husband a letter, and followed the guidelines the book suggested. The letter contains six parts, roughly of equal length. In the first part I listed what made me feel hate and anger. In the second part I listed the things that made me afraid. In the third part I listed all the things that made me sad. In the fourth part I listed the things I regretted. In the fifth part I described what I need from him to help me recover. In the last part I listed all the things that I loved about him and our marriage.<P>I gave him the letter and he read it. He also agreed to read it at least once everyday. By doing this, he is aware of my feelings without me telling him, but is also reminded of ways to help me heal my pain and of all the things I love about him.<P>This one simple thing allowed us to begin the recovery process. Of course, it is working because we both want it to, but this idea might help other couples.