Hi Mac

Good to hear from you. I've wondered what you have been up to and how you were doing.

I'm still sticking to my plan of confronting.

I just got off the phone with a lawyer to discuss getting CS if he decides to leave. It will cost me more than going through the county, but I can have it in place sooner. I was straight with the lawyer that I do not want a divorce, but I have to be prepared for the worst and pray for the best. She is sending me a worksheet of what I need to have ready for her if we need to take action. She told me what it will cost me to do this portion, and that she will bill me as we go, if I need her for any other family related services. I'm hoping that it will not come to it.

Unless I am mistaken, he might actually care what I think. WH is trying to do a career change. I'm only half heartedly in agreement with this change.

Pros - flexibility in scheduling, opportunity to increase income, it is something he wants to do and enjoys it

Cons - flexibility in scheduling (he could say he is meeting with a client and really be meeting with her), could make less than he makes from the union employment, he could hide income easier (this job is totally commission based),

Right now, he keeps telling me when he took a new application, and the earning potential. (keep in mind, I said potential, until the papers are signed, it is not generating income). He keeps saying to me that I have no faith in him.

I'm one of those individuals that like security. Jobs that don't have a guaranteed income do not have not income security. Commission paying positions with no base pay have the potential to generate little to no income all the way to great incomes depending upon the product, the ability and motivation of the sales person, etc.

It makes me nervous that he is wanting to leave a good paying job for one that we don't know what he will make.

I do like the flexibility of this job. Sometimes he has been able to take the kids to school for me so I could got to work early.

So, this type of work has many pros and cons. He also has the ability to work from home when necessary. Or to take a child to work with him, such as today, OS can't go to school today, so, H took him to work with him. In the union type of work he does, he could not do this.

So, this career change he wants to do is good and bad. All depending upon your outlook. H says I'm negative, I prefer to think of myself as a realist, I try to see all aspects of everything, be prepared for as much as I can. (I used to be impuslive and it always got me into trouble)

<small>[ January 09, 2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: SwH ]</small>

Hi Sue
I'm still following you all the way.
You know best for you so all I will do is support you in your decision.

I've said it before but will say it again,I admire your strength you are a remarkable woman your H will loose out big time the day he looses you.

Hi Sue,
(and hi Ginger - )

You sound like you are doing well. I don't know what kind of hours you are working right now, but I supspect too many. If you are "on plan" then that could be OK.

I read this (below) Sunday night, and wondered if there is something in it that could be of help to both you, and to FBOW. I would post it on her thread, but I think she will come here and see it. While this does not directly relate to either of you, I think both of you will probably understand why I think much of it applies. I hope it helps you and will help to put things into proper perspective.

SS


The War Inevitable
by Patrick Henry
March 23, 1775

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve.

This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?

Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land.

Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love?

Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other.

They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years.

Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves.

Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne!

In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope.

If we wish to be free -- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending -- if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained -- we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight!

An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction?

Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us.

Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.


Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston!

The war is inevitable -- and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

I know not what course others may take but as for me: give me liberty or give me death.

Just wanted to drop in and say that if you need some support, just shoot me an email. I am right here with you.

Good luck. Stay strong

STTSI, SS, Ginger and everyone else

Thanks for being here.

WH, he has been really good towards me, even though the A continues. He has been talking about us joining a couples golf league this summer, he is still trying to make a trip to Vegas happen, he keeps talking about helping me get into shape for Mexico (I've alwasy said I wanted to be inshape before I went on a trip like that).

He has been cuddling me as we watch TV, he used to ignore me, he waits up until I get home from work (except on the weekends, I don't expect him to wait up then).

If I did not know about the A, I would have thought I had the best marriage ever.

I have more to say, I will say it later. I read a recent e-mail she sent H. I'm still flabbergasted by it. I don't know if I should pity her or not.

She's pathetic Sue, if you ask me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Dear Sue:

did you have time to check out the book I linked in my last post to you?

Just thought maybe you missed it because you never mentioned anything about it.

IP,
Yes, I checked out the book. Sorry, I thought I said thanks for refering it. I might order it.

Okay, here goes. The e-mail I read yesterday, was one she forwarded from her dad to my WH. They are planning the rehearsal dinner. No date was mentioned, I got the impression that WH is not having much input into this. She asked if WH's brother was going to be the best man. I thought these things were generally decided before this stage in the wedding planning. I called BIL and told him, he could not stop laughing. He said he was not asked. WH was sleeping when I got home, but this AM, he was affectionage and loving. I know WH read the e-mail.

Last month, cake toppers, this month rehearsal dinner. Is she pregnant, is that why they are rushing things. Shouldn't WH be divorced from me first?

My sisters husband knows her from his HS days, he said she is nuts, whacko. It looks like it too. I'm sure she knows he is married. I know we have had hang up calls when I've been home during times I'm normally not home.

MIL is not happy about hearing this news. She said if she gets a phone call inviting her to the dinner, she will straighten them out. So, she is planning the wedding I didn't have. BIL said he was not invited to our wedding. I reminded him he was involved, he drove us to the airport and picked us up. (He was late, we were outside freezing our tushy's off, but he was the best man of sorts.)

I'm still in stunned, something. Do I call her parents so they don't invest money into this wedding that cannot take place, do I wait for them to invite MIL and BIL? Letting WH handle it would be a very bad idea.

My MIL is concerned that she may be so unstable that she might try to come after me. I promised her I will watch my back

Sue:

DO I UNDERSTAND YOU RIGHT????

This whacko OW is talking to HER parents about marrying YOUR H????? Planning the dinner???? And you have talked to your BIL and MIL about this, but not your H???

All the while he is married to you and behaving like everything is normal? And you are behaving to him like everything is normal???

Now there are at least two possible explanations for this:
-he is lying to you like there is no tomorrow and has his lawyer and divorce lined up
OR
-OW is a complete psycho and living in dream land while your H is thinking of ending the whole A.

???????

No matter what it is, dear Sue, why don't you sit down with H and have a straight talk? (Preferably AFTER studying in that book and lining up all your evidence so he can't weasle out of it).

How do you manage to keep it all inside of you in your day to day life? You are enabling him. Again: YOU ARE ENABLING HIM and this situation. Where are your boundaries? Where is the point that you say: "You are not treating me like this!" Do you just want to sit and wait until your H lets the whole thing explode in your face? Until he thinks now the time has come to confront you?

He is giving you mixed messages but you are sure the A is ongoing?

Sue, what do you want? Are you sure what you want? Do you have a plan to get it?

I wish so much for you that you are happy again. But it seems to me that your situation is moving towards a crisis...

Love

Wow, your story gets more complex by the minute Sue! So you are discussing this with your BIL and MIL but H is not aware any of you are discussing it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Look at it this way, the more wacko she acts, the better you look in H's eyes. I think he wants out, but doesn't know how. As someone who has done this before, I can tell you that its not all that hard to dig a pretty good hole for yourself. He could be concerned about what she will do if he ends it, like come after you and the kids.

Just some food for thought...

My MIL and BIL know about the A. They have been trying to me by not being available as a babysitter for him.

There is a registry at Target for my H and OW. Even if he was going to divorce me, I don't think it is possible to have the divorce finalized by the event date. Beside, he knows that the Mexico trip may be for that time frame. He really wants this Mexico trip. Our friends are making the arrangements. (I know we have discussed this trip, at this time, I have not said anything to WH to indicate I have reservations about this trip. I figured, it could be dealt with at confrontation time).

Is she delusional? Does WH have any involvement in these plans? I don't know? I'm mostly bewildered by all of this

I do know this, I need to step up the pace with regards to confronting H. Possibly after the hockey tournament this weekend.

As a friend pointed out, if she is delusional and WH does not know that the plans are to the point where they are with all of this, I need to look out for my safety and the safety of my kids. I cannot delay much longer. Hopefully I am overreacting and thinking I need to be extra cautious. I love my kids too much that I need to do this. God I don't want them hurt by all of this.

I don't believe that he would think that he could get away with marrying two women. Besides, I'd report him. I don't know what his involvement is in the planning and implementing of this event that is supposed to take place 4 days after my birthday.

You know, this is too bizarre. Way too bizarre. Now, I'm wondering if the car that was parked outside my house the other day is something to be concerned about. Were they watching me and the kids. It looked like they were.

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]</small>

I agree, you need to get this all out in the air very soon. I am fearing for ya'lls safety now, this is unbeleivable!!

Dear Sue:

You are wondering if your H knows about any of this? You wrote in your previous post that you read the email that OW send to her father and forwarded a copy to your H. I am sure he knows...

Sue, clear your head and think about all of this. It is possible that OW is becoming totally crazy like Glen Close in Fatal Attraction...maybe she is pregnant, maybe she is just crazy.

From what you wrote it seems that your H tries to get out of this by "escaping" to Mexico around the planned event. Is OW going to like this? I bet NO WAY. She has a registry at Target (cheap, tacky - no other comments) ?!?!

There is a deep hole of embarrassment and rage being dug here. She is digging it but do you know how much your H is encouraging this? What will she tell her friends, her family, everybody in her support system? Those people that have made purchases at Target, her dad who reserved the restaurant? This is more than weird...

Sue, listen for a moment: You have been dealing with this as long as I know you...over 1 1/2 years. Now things seem to spiral out of control. You cannot tip-toe around H any longer. This could have dangerous consequences for you, him and your kids (not to mention any rabbits in your household...). You and your H need to talk. My suggestion for that: do not tell him for how long you have known about the A and not said anything, not enforced boundaries. That does not look good, it could enable cake-eating behavior in him.

I would say that you have been doing a successful modified Plan A, you seem to be closer to him now than a year ago. Maybe the A is losing its attraction, but OW's behavior sure seems crazy and dangerous. Do not see it as a confrontation between you and your H but as the first step to recovery. Once the A is exposed, you can ask for a no contact letter and can start a real Plan A or B if necessary.

Love

I agree with Iceprincess, prepare to form a united front against OW if necessary. Don't assume your H will want to run off and leave you.

Also, I find the fact he is planning a trip to Mexico with you at the same time as this supposed wedding to be very interesting... Is he pushing REALLY hard for this trip? My theory is he wants to be locked into something that will take him far away from home during that time frame. Just a thought.

<small>[ January 14, 2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: findingmywayback ]</small>

Is it time?

SS

I have been working on a way to confront. I thought about writing it out. I know if I try to talk to him, I might falter.

I started writing it out, have it almost finalized. MIL overheard me talking to my sister about the registry and she decided to confront WH about it. I did a poor confrontation after that. After MIL told him that she saw it, she also told him that he had better call me and talk to me about it. I tried to tell him what I knew, instead I just cried like an idiot. I did tell him about the KQ vegas trip and I called the hotel, he kept ignoring that. MIL said that she thinks he did not know about the registry. She told me he seemed very surprised. She also said he is worried. I did tell him that I heard two years ago about those two and them having an affair. He wanted to know why I didn't tell him then. I told him, I was afraid because the last time this happened and I told him, he walked out on me and the boys.

He did tell me he loved me, he has called me a zillion times today. He will not tell the truth, everytime I try to tell him, I start to lose it. I thought I was ready to do this in a strong, confident manner.

He said it is being removed. I checked his e-mail She sent a removal for Bed Bath & Beyond, so there was more than one out there. Target is still there.

I think I need to regain my composure, and try again. This time, it will be in letter format, with copies of what I have.

He is worried about this getting out and ruining his reputation. Is that why he wants to be married.

He said the registry was a joke. What a feeble lie. FOG FOG FOG

I wonder what will happen next?

Sue,
haven't posted for a while, I lurked though.
If I may suggest smth : please plan HOW you are going to hand your H your writings. Because I failed there.
See, two days ago after carrying my plan B letter for months I decided to give it to my H.
He refused to take it. Period. I too thought I am emotionally well prepared for that moment and the time seemed right. I did not cry, said why I need to move forward yet I lacked assertiveness or confidence or courage to just hand this letter over so he would hold keep it. He said he doesn't have time for my "scenes", that I always freak out when he leaves etc heartless comments.

So he left again for another trip and this time I am very seriously afraid he is going to meet OW for emotional and physical fulfilment.

I can't imagine what's in the works behind my back in light of your discoveries; as you know I don't snoop, other than I encounter facts in the open, I have no idea what's in the communication between them , other than I am 99% sure they keep in very frequent email/phone/text messaging contact.

SS provided big encouragement for me; see I could endure pain of rejection and betrayal if due to my shortcomings and "spur of the moment" or perception of love, but not ongoing cheating and lies, and false promises when cornered.

H is coming back next week; I did as much of plan A in last month as he let me.
He is not nice or pleasant nor he talks or wants anything to do with me. I am basically alone with little EN filled by him in the past 2 years. Rationally I am not risking much by going into plan B - possible dissapointment if the finances/living arrangements will become a sore issue. Then my $LB bank will be almost empty. So I know I have to proceed soon.
I am scared how I will cope in plan B.
And there never seems to be a good timing for it. But more and more I see this is inevitable because I can only count on myself to leave the triangle.

Sue, I pray for you,
FBOW

You've held so much in for so long everytime you open your mouth the flood gates open up. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />


I hope you are feeling a little more confident today.

Dear Sue:

Calm down. Take a deep breath and say to yourself: "I am a strong woman, I can handle this".

You are a strong woman. I know that because I have seen your determination to get your degree, your license and be a good mother to three kids at the same time. You are strong and you can deal with this.

It is NORMAL to break down crying when you talk to your H about him having an A. It is the worst heart breaking experience for a BS ever. You are doing what any of us would have done. Now look objectively at the result of exposing the A. He is calling you multiple times, still lying but he wants to be with YOU (Repeat: YOU!!!! Not OW but YOU!!!!).

So?...so far so good. Now get your act together:
#1 AND #2 AND #3: BOUNDARIES

No contact with OW. End the A. Start to work on your M.

What leverage do you have, Sue, to enforce those boundaries? - Very clear answer: You can remove yourself from the situation. Plan B.

You have to change 180 degrees. You were so honest to tell him that you have known and turned a blind eye to his A for two years...not a good move...but anyway: NOW you have reached your limit. This is it. From now on boundaries. If you don't do this you will end up with a H who is a fencesitter/cake eater. Do not allow that to happen. Do not enable him to contimue the A and have you on the side, destroying your love and breaking your heart. You have to be strong here Sue and you have to appear strong to him. Very very important.

Don't beg, don't plead. Show him that you are the best he has ever had (he knows that already-believe me). Be beautiful (put on nice clothes, do your hair, buy waterproof mascara to withstand tears- no kidding!), be strong and determined, show him what treasure he would loose. Eat small portions- with this stress you'll loose ten pounds in a week.

You got to get in battle mode. Kick OW out of his brains for good. You are so much better than her.
You are strong and determined. To keep you he has to change his behavior, end this A and become an honorable man again.

You have a lot of support, Sue. Seems your MIL and your family are on your side. And you have MB - just wait for all the comments tumbling in on your thread today.

I am glad I checked on you. Remember Sue: This is marriagebuilders and no matter how desperate the situation looks there are so many success stories here. You wrote to me many times 20 months ago when I was a crying mess. You checked on me, you gave me a pat on the back and simply the feeling that you were looking out for me. I cannot thank you enough for that. My H and I have walked that rocky road of recovery and today our life has its peace and happiness again (at least on most days <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> still a work in progress on other days).

You just started walking on the recovery road. You did the first step.

Good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!!

Love