Hi Ali-yes I remember you and RR.

Silver - thanks for everything you said.

Right now - I don't know what I want. Sometimes I think about ending this madness and moving forward alone with the kids and I am calm about it. Other times, It is upsetting to me. I'm trying to understand why sometimes I am calm and other times I am not.

I feel very stuck, not knowing which way to go or turn. At this point, I know the decision is mine and mine alone. I just don't know what it is I want.

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]</small>

Thank you "findingmywayback"

To Ali and SwH,

What I have to try and get through to you is that when you do the 180º turn around, it doesn't matter if you want to get back together with your husband or not.

A. It makes you feel better and strengthens your spirit; you need this what ever happens.

B. It makes him sit up and take notice, especially if he is the whiney "I am a victim" type.

C. Doing it brings you into a position of inner strength and also as a by-product kind of takes away the power he has to hurt you. Either way, leave or stay it helps!! If only I could take you into myself so you could feel the difference. He is still trying to be a victim, but can't drag me into it anymore.

I have suffered with the victim for nearly 20 years now and severely for the last 18 months. He even told me that if I was never born I couldn’t have been here to somehow influence him to do all the things he did that I didn’t know about. It was so ludicrous, that after I recovered from the hurt, I just laughed at his foolishness.

His problem is related to his parenting when he was small, specifically his mother, he seemed to have a perfect childhood. I suggest that you get and read "emotional incest" it is a great book and Amazon has it. It will let you see how he is and where it comes from, then that lifts the "shawl of blame" they drape around your shoulders that sticks even when you know it isn't really you doing it.

I have come to and got past the day when I knew I had to call the OW and tell her I had forgiven her. I did so because I felt she could never forgive herself, or come back from it and change unless I was ready to really show her there was a way back. My husband went berserk when he heard I was going to call her to forgive her. My MIL (a so-called devout Christian) forbade me to forgive her, she like my husband blaming the OW. I called and she was shocked but said she regretted what she had done, (she was a friend I had helped a lot) and felt that now with my forgiveness she could move on and change how she was. I asked her to change her marriage and tell her husband the truth; she and her husband like us were in counseling when the affair happened. He like me had no idea it was happening, yet they told each other that they were the victims, and we the unknowing somehow made them do it. I will be calling her back to see if she has told her husband, if she has not I will have to tell him.

You see over the last 18 months I have been on board after board, and exchanged emails with hundreds of betrayed people. Every single one said they wished someone had told them, and I felt the same and was furious at those who not only knew but also encouraged my husband to go ahead. They are all banned from our lives now. All of them.

When I did my version of 180º/plan B I became strong enough to (in a quiet but immovable way) exclude these people from our life. God stepped in and when United Airlines went down, every single one of those evil gossiping marriage destroyers was laid off. Every single one. The only one left was his boss in another state and he got moved sideways so he is not my husband's superior any more. I told his wife how he had encouraged my husband to badmouth me and have an affair behind my back while we were in counselling. So she now knows whom she is married to, they are Christians and had an agreement that they do not gossip and do not support anything that hurts a marriage, she was surprised to say the least.

You have to just a little at a time start the 180º/plan B, both of you, it is the only way to get strong and you need to be that to stay or leave, so you do not need to make a decision on that to do it. Just the desire to feel better and grow back that inner strength you used to have. That feeling of safety.

SP

Silver,

Just curious, What does your H. for a living???
You can e-mail to me if you don't want to post it. 'Let me know first and I will give you my e-address
Ali

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ali88:
<strong> Silver,

Just curious, What does your H. for a living???
You can e-mail to me if you don't want to post it. 'Let me know first and I will give you my e-address
Ali </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I prefer to email

Silver

Hi Silver!

Here it is! rraz88@aol.com. I look forward to your e-mail!

Ali <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear SwH,

I can't say I am dying to know how you are, becasue I think you are still hanging on and that you can still function.

I can say I worry about you - and I wonder if the H is still on the end of the SwH.

I know you are thinking, and I know you are so busy I don't understand where you get time to think - but remember people care about you.

There is probably not much more I can say that will help, just remember - OK?

SS

There is not much to update on.

WS is being loving, attentive, etc. Doing almost all the right things.

He is not doing/saying what is most important to me.

I have plenty of down time to think.

My job is a no brainer, I can think about my M and do my job (I'm talking about the full time job).

Where things are at right now, is the future of my M lies with, what do I want. I don't know.

Plan B will never be an option for me. I know that if he left, even if it was because I asked him to, I would never take him back. I took him back once before, I know myself well enough to know that twice, would end it.

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me.

That would be the final straw that broke the camels back (so to speak). That is why I resist all suggestions of Plan B. I know Plan B, would not be a plan B, but Divorce. It comes from knowing yourself. So, the best plan for me, is to take my time deciding if I want this marriage or not.

For those of you who think I am just stalling, I am not. This is a major decision, one that should not be made lightly. Before this point, I did not really face this aspect of it. I was only surviving.

Plan B, may have been what you needed, it is not waht I need. I know that Plan B would destroy my marriage. Not on the part of WH, but, I would be the one going to the lawywer, filing for divorce. I would do it the very same day or next day. No waiting period.

I am not in denial of my feelings, of the state of my marriage. I know what is going on.

The scarry thing, I am way too calm. Every relationship I have been in, that I ended, I felt this calm before I told him it was over. I also had no regrets when I made the decision. I may take my time to get there, but when I get there, I have no regrets. I know i made the right decision for me.

I know myself very well. That is where most people underestimate me.

Oh, SS - I'm doing fine, better than fine really.

I am doing more than functioning.

My son's hockey team one the consolation championship in their last and final tournament.

Tonight we are having an end of the season party/dinner for the kids and family. We decided as a team, we wanted this last farwell.

Some of the kids are moving to the next level, some are staying at this level. Who knows what team they will be on next year.

Hi Sue,

No way do I think you are stalling. This is a major decision for you. It is not like picking out a color of paint for your bedroom. This needs thinking from all aspects and every aspect to consider.
I am right there with you to. I brought it up in our MC session a week ago and she was shocked. He was sort of surprised. I have to take everything into consideration before I make a major decision before I twist my children's life around.
And I know the survival mode! Your body some how goes on leaving the brain behind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
That was my case all last year. When you and every one as it seems on this message board was trying to help my H. and I.
Tell me though, that calm is kind of creepy isn't it? It is like you have come to terms with it your decision. And everything seems to piece together and work out. Been there too!

I really think you are a strong women. I am not sure if I would be able to handle and on going A. and my H. keeping it in the open.

Take your time, I support you.

Ali
How's the weather up there????

Dear Sue:

I know the feeling of calm you spoke about in your post. I think you reach that frame of mind when YOU are closer to knowing what YOU want and you don't depend on the other person anymore to make decisions for you.

Sue, last Monday I read my first thread again...when I came to MB in July 2002. You were there, writing to me again and again. Reading the posts you and I wrote I can see a lot of change in your and my personality...in the way we write, the way we "talk".

You have fought so hard, Sue, to get your degree, to keep your household running. You have been strong for so long. I know how long these last two years were, because they were the longest and hardest I have ever lived through myself.

You are the only one who knows what is best for you. Period! Noone else can decide for you.

Hold your head up high, dear Sue, all the best for the coming weeks and months. When I was in trouble, you came to my help. Now I would like to return some of that help to you.

Hugs

Weather - is nice. Warm, snow melting, car window open (okay, Ilike the window open when it rains, I've caught many of colds/sore throats because I do not use commone sense when it comes to open car windows and the wind going through my hair).

I have mostly figured out, I am at a place where, what he does is of little concern to me. It matters, but, I don't know if anything he could do would effect me or not. I'm not sure what I want.

I keep thinking, move forward, start over, leave him behind, once a cheat, always a cheat. You will never be able to trust him again. I've made other discoveries, that at this point, I have very little to no respect for him. I dont' know if I could ever get that back. I treat him better than he deserves. I treat him with respect he does not deserve. So, I don't let my lack of respect for him effect my actions.

And then, I think of the kids, and I think, wonder, can this marriage be saved? Can he change? Can he/will he do what is necessary to change so I want to save this marriage?

It comes back to the question "Do I want to work on this marriage" I honestly do not know. So, in the mean time, I keep living life day to day. Watching/wondering/questioning/observing.

His behvior towards me, has been very good since before Christmas. Other than D-day when I confronted, and there was a couple of very strained days, followed by less strained days for a week. Now, I have moments. He notices them. He always asks if I am okay.

It has in some ways, been better. He is home more, wants to spend more time together. Tells me more where he is and going (the question is, if I am not with, how do I know over the cell phone, he is where he says he is, unless I talk to one of the people where he is at.). So, is there reason for me to doubt, or is it distrust in him making me question everything? I did not follow instinct the first time around, and I'm not really sure what to think right now. Not sure if it is the distrust clouding things or if it is that gut feeling.

For instance today, he said he was going to so and so house. I tried to call him on his cell phone, did not reach him. I called there and he was there. I instantly was being distrustful. Now he was where he said he was. So, this time, he was telling me the truth. Will he be the next time?

He has not done what I wanted to prove there is NC. I should push the issue, and some may disagree with me on this, but until I decide what I want/don't want from this marriage, I am not going to push it. If I decide I want a divorce, she can have him and deserves him. He will do the same to her.

If I decide I want this marriage to work, then I will insist on proof. if he says he sent it, then I will insist on another one that I get to see, as proof. He can tell her, that he already sent it, but I didn't see it, and I insisted on seeing it, so he is resending it to make me happy.

I'm questioning just how much do I really matter to him?

I just wonder how can you trust him? Don't feel guilty because you don't trust him. That just happened to me the other night. I doubted him and there he was where he said he was.

I also wonder, if he is going to put a stop to this....???? Can the three of you sit down and talk? I knot that may sound way off base. But considering the openess he has and she obviously knows about you?????

Ali

Sue,

I understand that the reason you don't have a real recovery plan in place is because you aren't sure you want a recovery. That's understandable. But I need to state the obvious: If no recovery plan is in place...you will be assured of no recovery. It will be a self fulfilling prophecy. How can you know if you want your marriage to work if the conditions that facillitated the affair don't change and you never have a chance to rebuild trust? You can't.

Hi Sue
Thought I would respond to your post just so everyone else knows I'm still alive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There is not much I can say to you we have talked and I understand you.I think the thing that hits closes to home for me is the lack of respect,I look at my H and even after 15m of knowing what he did I still do not respect him as a man.He became the type of person I hated.I have always hated men that cheat and now I am married to one.The trust is any where but back,I do not trust at all still but how can I when there has been little change in him since dday.

I think one of the biggest things for you will be seeing a true lasting change in your H.I know my H changed right after dday but it did not last he is right back to the old self.If your H does change and the change stays I know that you will then be able to learn how to trust him and eventually respect him again.I think its all up to him at this point.

Take care my friend,you are so very dear to me.

Maybe I did not make myself clear. I know we the three of us could not discuss this. He was honest about the affair, because I told him not to lie. Before he tried to lie, he should look at what I had. He glanced at it, but saw e-mails from her to him. So, he admitted to it. Said he would end it.

Did the ususal it was all my fault, etc.

I'm not sure how much she knows about me. She never made a reference to me, WH, sent her picture of our boys in hockey uniform. (Can't make them out through the helmet, I'm upset, but not as upset as I would have been if they had their helmets off). He never sent her a picture of our daughter. Does she know we have one? How was he going to explain a daughter that he has had for 5 years?

<small>[ March 21, 2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: SwH ]</small>

Ahhh, Sue! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I just get that awful pit in my stomache when I read your post!

I wish there was something I could do or say to make it right. I know the feeling that you are going through. Although my. H. A. was only five months.

I will say lots of prayers for you. I hope it will get better for you. How about if I come up there and slam him with a hockey stick? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ali

Sue,
If you don't know what you want - pretend you want it, and go along with that until you do know. Isn't that the only thing that makes sense right now?

And - and it scares me when you are quiet for so long - I had twin two year olds once - and quiet can be lots of trouble. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

Sorry SS- don't mean to scare you.

Not much to update. Things are fine in general. If you did not know my situation and saw us together, you would think we had a good sound marriage.

Yesterday was my birthday. At first I was bummed because I thought WH did not remember, I changed my hours and worked during the day so I could have the evening home. WH came home and had some roses for me, and said get dressed, we are going out for dinner for your birthday. I was very impressed that he remembered and bought me flowers.

I've been very preoccupied with my own thoughts. Most of them center around thinking that my marriage is doomed, once a cheat always a cheat, how can I ever trust him again, if ever. Does he love me, did he ever love me and many more thoughts along these lines.

I do pretend all is okay. I figure until I decide what I want, no point in causing problems or giving him reason to rethink his decision to try and make it work.

I know, what he did for my birthday should be an indication that I must matter to him.

Sue
I am so happy he remembered. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Happy belated birthday to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Can that saying be true? "Fake it until ya make it." Now, lets get our mind out of the gutter!
How can you fake it when you are so miserable?

I am glad that he brought you flowers and told you to get ready. That must of felt really good!
Did you have a nice time?

Ali