"I knew her beforehand, but I didn't start dating her until after I left" - although he stayed at her house from the night he left.<P>

My W had a calendar with her OM's first initial written in on the dates they were together. She confirmed that's what the initial meant. Seeing an entry on my birthday i asked "so you were together on my birthday?" Her answer: "No, i would never do that."

OH those crazy, crazy betrayers... what were they thinking when telling all those lies?<P>I say they all need to go back to kindergarten and learn what society finds acceptable!

"Yes, it happened, but we realized it was wrong and we stopped 'one year ago' (a really touching attack of conscience)"<P>"Its over"<P>"I want to grow old with you"<P>One evening he told me "there have been no phone calls"<P>The next morning he tells me "yes, there have been a few phone calls, but about work"<P>"I am working late"<P>"I am going to the club"<P>"No, my friends and I left the club and went to get pizza"<P>"I am very busy on my day off, you wouldn't believe all the chores I have to do".....meanwhile....I was mowing the lawn for him.....giving him more time to spend with the slut.<P>"I didn't say she was 'beautiful', the customers say that"<P>The list goes on........and he wants me to trust him.....now.....<P>

"Yes, it happened, but we realized it was wrong and we stopped 'one year ago' (a really touching attack of conscience)"<P>"Its over"<P>"I want to grow old with you"<P>One evening he told me "there have been no phone calls"<P>The next morning he tells me "yes, there have been a few phone calls, but about work"<P>"I am working late"<P>"I am going to the club"<P>"No, my friends and I left the club and went to get pizza"<P>"I am very busy on my day off, you wouldn't believe all the chores I have to do".....meanwhile....I was mowing the lawn for him.....giving him more time to spend with the slut.<P>"I didn't say she was 'beautiful', the customers say that"<P>The list goes on........and he wants me to trust him.....now.....<P>

"Yes, it happened, but we realized it was wrong and we stopped 'one year ago' (a really touching attack of conscience)"<P>"Its over"<P>"I want to grow old with you"<P>One evening he told me "there have been no phone calls"<P>The next morning he tells me "yes, there have been a few phone calls, but about work"<P>"I am working late"<P>"I am going to the club"<P>"No, my friends and I left the club and went to get pizza"<P>"I am very busy on my day off, you wouldn't believe all the chores I have to do".....meanwhile....I was mowing the lawn for him.....giving him more time to spend with the slut.<P>"I didn't say she was 'beautiful', the customers say that"<P>The list goes on........and he wants me to trust him.....now.....<P>

In W's explanation, she said that she originally went to her EB's house to talk to him about how great I was...just as a friend. Then apparently he forced her (not physically, but psychologically) to have intercourse with him. She cried the whole time.<P>When I said, "that still constitutes rape", she immediately defended him because I was getting ready to go serve him justice. She changed the story to "It was my fault".<P>Sometimes being a semi-pro-heavyweight boxer helps.<P>------------------<BR>All is not lost<BR>A new dawn is here<BR>And I am alive by his Grace

Here's my entry...<P>After calling the restaurant and asking the hostess if someone by the name of ***** (OW's name) was there and hearing OW say,"Who could be calling me here?"(I knew H was at the same restaurant, therefore confirming they were together), H claimed that it was just a coincidence that someone with her same name was at the same restaurant, BUT IT WASN'T HER!!! Ha, Ha, HA!

Caught my W in this one over T-day holidays. <P>Originally, when I saw her a few months ago in a convertible with another man and confronted her with this fact, she told me I was crazy and said, "I don't even know anyone who owns a convertible!" So guess what? Over dinner with the two of us and her sister, my W starts talking about her XH and happens to mention that he owns an expensive convertible. (I kept my gotcha! to myself, however.) I'm fairly certain that my W's XH is not the OM, but do figure that XH is who she was with the day I spotted them in the convertible, and she won't even tell me that she sees her XH from time to time! (I spotted his convertible parked a couple of times too.) Sheesh!<P>--Wex

Puhleeeese. None of you have ever, ever lied to your spouses? Yea right. Ok, I can hear the chorus now..."But not about something as serious as an affair" So now we can discuss whose lies were worse than whom, the "betrayed" or the "betrayer". Show me one "betrayed" who has never ever lied about ANYTHING and I'll personally introduce them to the Pope.

TheStudent:<P>The point isn't the lie, it's the absurdity of the lie and their expectations that we believe them. Don't get so bent out of shape about some betrayed spouses venting for a little cameraderie.<P>Of course everyone has lied to their spouse about SOMETHING, but ya gotta admit, these are some pretty tough lies to take, considering the subject matter.<P>Have a happy holiday. <P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

The Student:<P>Ditto for what Lone Star wrote! <P>This isn't about taking little stabs at the betrayers, or about making us (the betrayed) feel somehow morally/ethically better than the betrayer. It's about just shaking your head about the incredibly stupid lies people tell sometimes, accepting it, and laughing about the ludicrousness of these lies instead of being angry about them...<P>Perhaps you're just feeling guilty about the lies you told (any of them sound familiar???) and are pasting what <I>you</I> think about <I>yourself</I> on what others have written...<P>Laugh at the mistakes of yourself and others instead of being bitter about it. When you hold negativity inside you you're unable to learn from your and others' experiences...<P>------------------<BR>~~ Elixir ~~<P>

Nope. I've just been on the receiving end of quite a bit of hypocrisy from my ex-H. I've also been privy to the "camaraderie" shared between my ex and people I used to consider my friends as he oh-so-conveniently shared just the parts about our marriage that made himself look good. You are "laughing" at your spouse's expense. But that is ok as long as you didn't sleep with anyone outside your marriage?<P>yech. so, any criticism from me must either be from <BR>a) guilt<BR>b) justification<BR>c) insecurity<P>Hardly...but of course, all "betrayers" are motivated by one of those three things. Jeez, I don't know why I even bother to say anything here...

TheStudent -- Come on!!! I want you here. We are just pointing out the absurdities that sometimes accompany these situations. I have said some pretty stupid things over the last 8 months. Didn't really lie, but I'm sure W and OM and her mother have had some pretty good laughs at my expense. It's just a casualty of the situation.<P>Lighten up just a little, I'm sorry you're hurting. All of the rest of us(betrayed and betrayer) do too. We just need a little levity sometimes and it's just human nature to look toward the person or event that has hurt us. It's part of the healing process.<P>We mean you no insult and I think you should stay and continue to post what's on your mind. It is good for the rest of us.<P>--DeWayne--

TheStudent:<P>Any "friends" of yours that would desert you and just take H's side because of what he's told them are friends you don't need. Anybody with a brain in their head knows that there are two sides to every story, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.<P>I know that the few family members of mine that know about Petunia's affair have their opinions, and most of them have NO idea how she could have done this. <I>I</I> have no idea how she could have done it.<P>The point is, they can't possibly think objectively about it because they don't know what she went through. The same goes for your "friends" that now laugh at your expense. Clearly, they aren't getting the whole story, but if they choose to laugh at you without knowing the full story, then they aren't the kind of people that you need in your life right now.<P>Your opinion and presence at this forum is highly valued. You bring a perspective that many of us betrayed spouses don't understand. While none of us will ever condone your actions as a betrayer, we ARE here to listen and comfort, and offer our own perspectives to help you understand your Ex-H's behavior.<P>Clearly your Ex didn't handle this situation as well as he could have. Perhaps he was not terribly happy either, and this was his convenient excuse to get out. I really don't know. All I can tell you is that it is clear to me that you are remorseful for your actions. That speaks VOLUMES. Hell, you made a mistake, and your Ex-H is probably going to milk that for all the sympathy he can. But -- that's a hallmark of HIS immaturity, not your bad character.<P>You have repented and sought forgiveness. YOU have dedicated yourself to rebuilding your life. You can't force your Ex-H to join you in that endeavor, but you know as well as everyone here that if he chooses NOT to forgive and rebuild, then it's HIS loss, not yours.<P>Hang in there, friend. I know it can't be easy for you, especially when there are so many more of us betrayeds here. Sometimes we just need to marvel at the whole absurdity of this situation. Please cut us a little slack. Your H may be a hypocrite, but not EVERYONE here is.<P>Happy Holidays.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

OK

Most people lie for one of two reasons. They don't wnat to hurt the person they are lying to or they don't want to get hurt themselves. <P>The fact is that, as Jack Nicholson put it, "YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH" <P>The truth can be hurtful and vicious and most people don't want to be that way. So they lie. <P>Perhaps we should be painfully honest and get it over with. It certain seems better than the ridiculous lies we've all said or heard. <P>So maybe instead of saying "She's only a friend and this relationship is meaningless", Maybe we need to say "You're a fat pig and I can't stand you anymore so I just went to OW/OM to find peace of mind and some good loving, God knows I don't get any of that here".<P>Or you could say "Of course I love OW/OM he/she isn't always nagging me the minute I get home about some petty stuff I don't want to hear about anymore".<P>We don't want to say or do things that will hurt our W/H even though we are probably hurting them more with our actions. <P>Do you want to hear the truth? Then listen to it with open ears and an open heart. The truth is only the truth to the person saying it. If you can't accept the truth, then all you will get is lies. After all, the truth will probably hurt the teller 100% of the time but lying might save your butt half the time. Figure the odds.<P><BR>Flip<BR>