JKE,
First of all thank you for serving.

I can empathize with your feelings. It sounds as though you are having a tough time dealing with the humiliation. I assume this since you refernced people at work knowing. My counselor told me that anytime I see someone who knows I shouldn't assume that they are thinking about it. People have busy lives and most don't dwell on anothers problems.

I agree with your comments about this web site and the difficulty you are having sharing your feelings with friends and family. Most men are caught in a paradox.They need to share there feelings in order to work though them but they either don't want to share them or have diifculty sharing them with friends and family because it can inrease the feelings of humiliation. MB is the perfect forum for us because we can post, vent, whine or whatever and its completelt anonimous.

Your post reminded me of a book that I read last year, "Jar Head." One entire chapter was devoted to the existence and prevalence of infidelity on the home front. This author was stationed for training out at Twenty Nine Palms. He described how he would stand outside of his barracks and watch all of the "late night & early morning traffic." He meant all of the lonely Marine wives driving to see their temporary boyfriends and vice versa. He said the Marines described it as a big joke until it happened to someone in their unit. I was appalled.

To top it off the OM was your best friend.

My guess is that your W is relatively young. Although all age groups fall prey to infidelity, it seems as though the "married young" types are more prone. Probably related to immaturity.

Your W's background also comtributed as you referenced. She grew up in a family where her role models were cheats.

Is your W over the OM? Has she written a NC letter? She needs to understand that she should never turn to someone of the opposite sex for support. In order of preference she should turn to 1) you 2) a qualified counselor 3) a non-peer group, pro-marriage female. Until she understands that she really can't be plutonic with males and especially old boyfriends, this story may repeat itself especially if you are redeployed.

I'd suggest counseling asap. For the usual MB reasons but also for another in your case. It is a necessary fact that the military trains you to be aggressive. When they send you home they aren't super concerned about neutralizing the training. Even the most mild mannered male will have outbreaks of rage over infidelity. Mix that with a little alcohol and some military training and one minute of irrational behaviour may bring a lifetime of hurt.

I wish you well.
cwmac

JKE

PS
Your topic title was "How do I forget." The answer is you probably never will. Hopefully you will be able to get to a point where you can forgive.

I am currently on that road.

cwmac

That last post was really thoughtful and inspiring because the simple fact is that's what I need to hear.
You know some days I don't even think about it but then all it takes is a random thought and it all comes crashing back down on me, everything that happened. I start seeing them together, and I see the three of us together after I got back and they act like nothing happened. I despise that. However, I can't change what happened. I hate how things are right now though. I have always been caring and affectionate and now it seems like I can't be that person any longer with her. I never tell her I love her unless she tells me first and sometimes I just look at her and it makes me so angry, I have not expressed to her how angry this has made me, I only talk about how hurt I am. This is my one chance to vent.
One thing is, the night she told me, I threw out all the alcohol in the house, threw it right out in the woods. I don't think that it's welcome in my house any longer much like plutonic friends, my "best" friend, or infidelity.

M 1-23-03
D-Date 10-16-03
OM was best friend
W admitted 1-31-03

If you have read my other posts you know my situation, I just talked to a counselor for the first time today and I confronted my friend at work that I had tried so hard not to believe about the A, I told him I was sorry I didn't believe him and blamed him.
Right now I am feeling like something has got to give, I don't know what, don't know how, and don't know when, but this is so hard to deal with you know.
I'm going to suggest going to the counselor to my W in hopes that she will want to.
It's hard trying to show any affection these days and even harder to believe it won't happen again.
Things have slowed down so much that now all I have is time to think about it. I wish it would go away. For all BS I am so sorry for the anguish and pain that I have no doubt you have had to deal with and I applaud those that have turned this into a positive rather than dwelling on the negative, I don't have that strength though. I don't have that capability at this time. My work is my refuge and sometimes I don't want to go home.
As Valentine's Day approaches I think I am more concerned with keeping myself sane than showing love and affection. Somebody tell me it gets easier.

JKE,
earlier you said.....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One thing is, the night she told me, I threw out all the alcohol in the house, threw it right out in the woods. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good idea. That is just "fuel for the fire." Whether for you or for your W. BS's especially tend to self medicate too much. It can also really drive the emotions especially if someone is mixing anti-depressants & alcohol.

What did your counselor have to say?? Hopefully he is agood one that doesn't tell you to immediately throw in the towel. I know it's hard but try to postpone making any major decisions on the M for awhile.

What is you W's attitude these days?

Keep trying.

cwmac

I've been trying to deal with my wife's A (her 4th in nearly 30 years of marriage) currently she is in Iraq and it will be another 4 months before she returns and we can see if we can work this out. When she came back from the Gulf War it was so painfull. I found a used condom in her back pocket when she finally got home. We had to deal with that A along with returning from a war zone. Our councelor at the time said that I would just have to let her do whatever she wants. Good advice for her not so good for me.

Our kids were young at the time so I hung in there. They are grown now and away from home but it is still going to be hell when she returns. How do you help someone deal with returning from a war zone and deal with an A also. Too old and tired to keep doing this! I tried to pick out a Valentine's Day card recently but her A made all of them seem like a joke. Sorry din't mean to vent on your post just wanted you to know there are a lot of people going through it. Good Luck.

Hi JKE,

I have read your thread and I am sorry for what you're going through. I skimmed what others told you so this might have been said:

I haven't forgotten (I am 4 months in). But the emotional impact held by the thoughts, images, & memories has changed a great deal over the last months. Some things that were unbearable to think of 4 months ago don't bother me too much now. Yes, many other things still hurt ... but not as much as back then.

cwmac, deephurt, and cpx,
Thanks for posting and for talking. Lately I've found that when I start thinking of it, you know seeing the images, thinking about the fact that I meant absolutely nothing to the two of them, I just stop and think about the good times that we have had. I told her the other night that this won't be easy and it's not just something that I can easily forget or get over. I told her that I have put up walls unintentionally that sometimes I can't take down, I told her that sometimes I can fight them and they won't come up and then other times they're just there and I can't do anything about them. The Valentine's day was a joke here, I took her out to an expensive dinner and then came home and went to sleep. I mean seriously, just went home and slept. The other night we had traveled to visit a friend and we stayed in a hotel over night and I couldn't make love to her. The next day I told her that the walls went up when she had started with a conversation about birth control and it just reminded me of the fact she's been on birth control for about seven years and we've only been together for three of them and that got me, well you know how it is, it snowballed until I couldn't share intimacy with her. It's so sad because she will tell me how much she misses me and wants me to come back and I'll sit there thinking, unable to talk at all, and I'll just remember all the times that I used to feel like I could tell her anything.
I'm very angry at the OM because I feel like he needs to hear what he's really done to my relationship through his selfishness and neglect. I am sickened to think of what friends do you know.
It all snowballs.

Plan A/Plan B, which one, which one indeed?
I think that I'm fair in saying that those who choose Plan A are willing to work things out, that they don't want to lose their spouses and are able to accept and move on in regards to the affair. Those who choose Plan B are unable to accept, unable to move on, and maybe don't know if there's anything worth saving.
I'm having a terrible time right now because I believe that I have unintentionally moved from A to B and have created a wall that I can't seem to get out of.
I spend all day acting as if nothing happened while I'm at work and then the entire 25 minutes it takes to get home after work I argue with her and tell her how I feel, I vent to my steering wheel, rearview mirror, and emergency brake. I get home and I can't speak.
I'm emotionally decaying because I know what I was once, and now I'm totally different. I do care, but I only see things happening again, another cycle of me giving myself to her and being hurt again. It's hard to tell someone that you thought so much of for so long that now the only side you can see is the bad side and a mistake they made, I started with HOW DO YOU FORGET because I don't think I was willing to forgive.
I miss being able to trust, promises holding water, and the "warm and fuzzies" of yesterday. I'm left with blank stares, a cold shoudler, and a regret for allowing this to happen.
I don't know if I just want things to get worse or if they are destined to but I was told any two people in the world who want it to work can make it work, I'm just questioning if I want it to work.
I've always been the one to put more into it, the one to give all of myself, I used to do it because it's what I wanted to do, because it's what I felt was right. Now I only do it because it's what she expects, what she's used to, and what she's comfortable with.
It's like I'm making all of these sacrifices in myself to make sure that her self esteem is high, to make sure she doesn't feel guilty, to make sure she doesn't feel hurt, and that my friends is the foundation for the walls keeping me out of my marriage, not the foundation opon which I should attempt to rebuild my marriage.
Honesty is the best policy, but how do I say, well my wife, woman I promised to love, I don't know if I want to love you anymore, or be married to you because of what you've done to me in the past? How do I say that? Please help.

JKE,
All I can say is that I felt the exact same way from DDay2 until just recently for nearly 6 months. I wondered if I really wanted to stay married to my W. How could I ever love her again?; I asked myself. I thought about "them" when we were intimate. It was very tough. I had panic/ irrational attacks. I even made a deal with myself to stay married to her until my youngest is 18.

The time that we've spent together recently has paid off. I feel close to her again. I feel warm feelings for her. It's not perfect but it is alot better.

My opinion is "keep your mouth shut until you truely make a decision." If she asks you how your feeling tell her that your still having difficulties but I wouldn't tell her that your thinking of dumping her because in 6 months you may have changed your mind. If in 6-12 months you haven't changed your mind you can always tell her it's not working.

Are you in MC? Also my irrational attacks didn't stop until I got on AD's. You may want to consider this. They aren't addictive. I'm on Welibutron (sp?)

Don't let your pride ruin your future.

cwmac

cwmac,
That's really important what you just said about not letting pride ruin this. I have so far not done anything to tell her that she should leave, in fact the only thing I told her to do is to not give up on me. Today is our 13 month mark being married and the last week we probably only had about two hours of combined dialogue because I just couldn't talk. This morning I wrote her a very long e-mail explaining that I'm not comfortable right now and that I have a huge emtional burden to deal with. Part of keeping myself from saying hurtful things and making decisions that I would probably regret is to just not talk about it, so that also makes me not open up my heart to show her affection and attention.
She told me that she's tired of being alone, misses me, and really misses us, if there is an us anymore.
It's difficult as you know. I told her that I love her and always have but I don't feel safe with her right now and I have so much on my mind all the time.
We aren't in MC and I've though about AD's but haven't done anything about it yet. I want to talk to her family, especially her mom, she is a BS and has been trying to work on her relationship for over a year and a half now I believe. Her parents have been through so many ups and downs the past couple of years and I think that I could learn from them even though the situation is not quiet the same.
Intimacy is still a challenge and I try to keep my hormones distinguished from my feelings and my heart because there's a heavy price to pay for acting like on is the other.
I hope though, that the e-mail I sent out this morning will help her to understand that there are some things that we need to discuss but right now there is just too much anger and resentment to discuss them. Time will tell and that's why I have asked her not to give up and told her that I haven't either.
She has said maybe she should leave, I have thought maybe she should leave, but neither one of us are jumping to take that step and I believe that's because we both still have some hope and faith in ourselves and our relationship that we can make it through this, it's just a lot easier when you're comfortable talking about and able to look at it from the outside than when you're caught in the middle and gunshy about words.
Thanks for posting though and I hope that your relationship will find it's purpose as well.

JKE,
Please take my sage advice on two things:

1) Go to a doctor tomorrow and ask to be put on an AD ie Welibutron. I have always been a very calm person but the A turned this upside down and I got very emotional and early on lashed out verbally. Called her names etc. Didn't help matters. Sound familiar? The AD's tend to flatten out the emotional peaks and valleys.

2) You can't do this alone! You need to get some professional help asap. Preferablt a counselor who can relate to what both you and your W are going thru and can then relate that feeling to the other one. For example your W needs to know that it is going to take time before you can be loving again and you need to know that that is exactly what she needs at this point.

You need to reach out to your W. Tell her that you want to at try to make things. Tell her your willing to pay for MC regardless of the cost because your M is your number one priority.

I promise you that your negative feelings will pass with time.

cwmac

I spoke to my wife today prior to her reading the e-mail and told her what it said in summary. I also told her a few of the things that you just said, that we need help to get through this, we need time, and I may need some ADs pumping through me. So we're at an understanding right now that I know she needs my love and affection and she knows that I'm on the downside of a roller coaster about ninety percent of the time. So basically just talking about our feelings without going into detail caused us to understand each other without hurting each other.
We'll be able to talk to someone eventually as well, she showed interest in it today.

JKE,
That talk was a good start. Please follow up on the other suggestions.

The sooner you start the MC the better.

Also remember that M & W communicate differently and therefore handle problems differently. Men want to problem solve while Women want to talk about the issue to feel better. A great book that talks about this is Men are from Mars and Women are ... Venus. This might be a good book to start with because it doesn't specifically deal with A's. O would then get and read together Harley's Surviving an Affair. This will help you understand what she may be going thru and it should help her to do the same (especially if you are the same typical non-communicative male as I am)

cwmac

I got home last night and after not talking, anything but small talk for about an hour, I told her that I drive home every day telling her exactly how I feel, I let it all out and then as soon as she opens the door and I see her, I shut it all off, and that I guessed that one of the reasons that I can't show affection is because once I shut off the communication, everything shuts off.
She told me it felt like we were two strangers living together instead of husband and wife, which is ironic because that's what I told her after I returned from deployment to her and my best friend in the apartment. So anyways, after all of this I told her that I think another reason why I don't show emotions is because I'm afraid that I'll break down, it's hard for me to open up to how I feel with her because it turns into me having to comfort her, always.
Last night she just kept crying for two hours, looking up at me and saying she's sorry, saying she doesn't deserve me, and even told me that she would give me her ring back. I wasn't able to say anything but broke the tear session by offering her some kool-aid. I went into the kitchen, poured some kool-aid and then put some whip cream on the top of my head, weird right?
Well I walked back in and she didn't even notice the whip cream, so I said, I read somewhere that when you put whip cream on your head it helps with oral sex. So she looked at my forehead and started laughing.
So like I said, it's never my turn to let out anything, she either shuts off and quits talking or she breaks down and I spend a couple of hours trying to restore her.
I think that this forum is good for me because I can vent but I don't have to take it out on her.
She said she would do anything she can to help this marriage, I almost want her to tell her family, I don't know if it would help the situation though, but I think that's part of truly identifying what is that makes you do these types of things. I know for a fact her mother and father would want an explanation that maybe I'm not the easiest person in the world to explain it to....I'm rambling, but hopefully somewhat out there is hearing me.
Laughter is the best medicine and it worked last night, but this is no comedy I'll tell you that.

God bless your marriage! He does indeed work miracles, and continues to work them in mine. I know God sent MB programs to our rescue after we both had affairs. Still healing from much shame, hurt, anger, etc., but surely we could never do this for ourselves. Please keep us in your prayers. I'll keep you in mine. It's been over a year now, and I'm struggling with my husband's flirting. This weekend we went away for my birthday weekend, visited my old high school friend. I handled things very well, but so very disappointed how they left me out, almost cuddled together. Just disgusting. Any advice? Am I fooling myself? We've actually come a long way. I haven't said anything to him and not sure I should.

prov31,
I have to be honest with you that I'm probably in no position to give advice myself being fairly new at marriage. I have learned that speaking your mind is a double sided sword though, one which can work miracles towards good, or create chaos with bad. So I don't know if you should say something or not but I can imagine that one key step in conflict resolution is to identify the problem and you can't do that with him until you talk about it. I'm facing the same thing, I can't tell my wife that the hardest thing I'm having to deal with is trusting her again after she so easily lied to me and manipulated me so that she wouldn't have to feel guilty, it's very hard you know. But as you can read through the hundreds of posts on this site, there are so many people out there that are going through the same thing. So many people that are strong one day and weak the next, and so this site becomes like a security blanket. My hope is that through using this site I will lose the need for this site and turn my wife into my security blanket again as she once was long ago.
I have problems with plutonic friends (especially now) and even more of a problem with touchy-feely plutonic friends. From personal experience I know why I was a touchy-feely friend to females prior to my marriage, basically to flirt, get them interested, and pull them in. It seemed the easiest way to do so without blatently disrespecting them and going for the kill was to learn how they think, learn how they feel, and offer them a shoulder always, simply manipulative on my part and maybe that's why this has happened to me. I must say though that those friends are something to worry about but in the end the most important thing, I think we can all agree on, is that you should be able to look at yourself and be happy with your decisions.
My only enemy right now is my own willingness to fail.
With that being said, I have to decide what is failing and what is winning and if the past eight years of my life are any clue as to my dreams, goals, and current disposition, I know that my way to win is not failing at this marriage on my part. A huge contrast compared to some of my posts I know, but in the end, I always know that she is the love of my life and I was blessed with her, even being remotely involved with her has made me a better person.
So I rambled and probably didn't get to the point, just make sure you're happy with you and then carry that happiness into your conversations with him regardless of how "blue" the situation or topic may be.
God Bless you too.

Haven't posted for along time, but here is my 2 cents. You do need to get mc. your mind can drive you crazy and just run out of control. I know alot of times people are sorry for affairs. My x was sorry-when he got caught-and you can forgive and "try" to move on. But, I think the ones that had the affair, just does not realize what it has done. Your may love that person and want to forgive, but it changes your feelings about them forever. I tried, I prayed, for 5 years, but could never feel the same about x. I distanced myself from him emotionally, then physically, until it was over-a slow death. We were married 23 years and one weekend changed my marriage forever, and you can't get it back. It's so sad and I guess everyone deals with it differently. I wish I could have, but I couldn't.

Godhelpme,
I think that may be the cornerstone of my problems with talking about the A. I am afraid it will lead into your situation, years of prolonging a relationship that doesn't fulfill either one of us, but talking will help us get to the real root of the problems we have because there has to be a reason why she couldn't say no.
I'm sorry to hear about your marriage and it's end but I commend you for trying to work through it.

You know, I honestly believe there are people who are going to do this no matter what you say or do in a marriage. If the opportunity is there, they are going to take it. I think they are born that way. His dad, mom, sisters, brothers, all did it. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. I found out that wasn't the first time either. I know that he loved me. I don't think it had anything to do with me. It is just the way he is. You can choose to live like that, or not. His mom and dad stayed together, with both them knowing it went on all the time. Now he is furious that I don't do the same. He will not speak to me at all. So, I sure wouldn't go blaming myself. Do some research and find out how your spouse is wired. I finally came to the conclusion that I was not the blame and chose not to live like that anymore. It is very, very painful, but I do think that god has something better for me down the road. Can't wait to meet him!!