HOW DO YOU FORGET? - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I'm a soldier that recently returned from deployment to OIF. My wife and I were married a month before I left and I was gone for seven months. We had our problems, typical first year problems in dealing with the new marriage I guess. However, I let my best friend who was deployed with me stay at my house, as his family, wife and newborn son were in another state. To make a very long story short, they slept together, everyone at work knows about it and she finally confessed after lying for a couple of months. Despite all of our problems and her infidelity, despite me asking the Lord for strength and guidance, I can't seem to get the image of my best friend with my wife out of my head. I can't seem to forget about all the pain that I have felt, it's extremely frustrating because I don't know if I can ever trust her again yet I don't want to let her go. I know that no two people have the same response to situations such as this and that sometimes the best idea is just to deal with it, but how do you forget?

Hello,

What an awful story. You have some best friend. I hope he is your ex best friend and that you informed his wife. What a total backstabber.
I don't know what to say that your wife in your first year of marriage would be sleeping with your best friend in your house like she did. Do not have children until you sort this out. Look at all of your options availiable to you. I think what you have gone through right at the start of your marriage should make you think long and hard about your marriage and your future. I wish you luck.

Thanks for commenting. I am really just needing to be heard and let these feelings out that I can't seem to do with her you know. People at work and family only can tolerate so much you know and I don't know how much talking to my coworkers or our families will help the situation shall we decided to stay married.
I have promised her that I won't leave but I'm just at this point where I ask myself why about too many things. You know we were separated for five years prior to our being married and I still have not found resolve for initially abandoning me. I thought I had.
I feel like sometimes that I owe it to her to give her a chance, but I've also seen how easily she can lie to me, how she is so unwilling to let go of compromising situations (plutonic male friends, and ex-boyfriends) and I tell myself that I'm not doing her a favor by showing her trust that I don't have.
She comes from a family that cheats, her brother, sister, and father, but I never thought she would cheat on me.
I believe that people like this aside from being selfish, are also ignorant to consequences of their actions. Her confession came after I forced her to look me in the eyes and tell me the truth, she never did, instead looking away from me she said that it did happen. She told me that she missed her husband and I told her I did too.
It's just so hard to forget about it, it's so hard not to have so much doubt, so I think despite my promise that I really want to give her a wake-up call as to her problem.
She needs to realize that she has so many great qualities but to betray someone's complete and total trust quickly can negate those qualities. I'm just stuck, I'm stuck between losing the one woman I've always wanted, always loved, and have always considered family, and living the rest of my marriage with so much doubt.

[ February 04, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: JKE ]

Thanks for serving our country. Sorry it turned out that your sacrifice had such an awful end.

Your wife has acted very poorly. However in her defense, she was put in a very bad situation. You were gone, she was worried about you, and scared and lonely. And there was your friend living with her and meeting her emotional needs. It was a recipe for disaster.

Read all about the emotional needs, and rebuilding your marriage here. Also try to get some marriage counseling. Your marriage seems very hopeful to me, and you can get through this. I think even the best women here might have slipped under these circumstances.

So get busy reading, keep posting, and we will help you through this, like you helped us by serving.

Hello again,

Thank you also for serving this country. My friend your last message says it all. There are a ton of red flags. She left you before, she hang with ex boyfriends and easily lies to you. Think hard about finding someone else in the future you can respect and who respects you. From your last message I think it is in the cards that she will continue to break your heart in the future. She is simply not marriage material. I wish you luck and wish you a better future.

Believer,
Thanks for your comment too. I talked to my dad this morning and told him everything that had happened and then went home for lunch. I saw my wife and she could tell that it was on my mind and I could see the hurt in her eyes.
I feel like I can't talk to her about how I feel because I'm so afraid it's going to hurt her. Apparently she feels really bad now that I know what happened for a fact, but it never seemed like she was too sorry about it before hand.
I'm so lost but I also believe and that's why I've come to this site. It's improbable to me that anything will happen in the near future but I'm looking into the distant future and after investing more time, more heart, and more finances into this "partnership" that is a marriage. Ten years from now if this were to happen again I think that it would destroy me and cause an awful amount of bitterness. I know I just ramble on and on and I'm sorry but it's like I want to forget about this but I can't stop talking about it. My life as an onion, with so many layers.

I know how you feel ,My husband is in the Army and gets to travel ,unfortunately he was the one who broke my heart three times to date. I really think you should get your wife involved in MB and the information on here might help her to find out why she did what she did and the two of you can insure that it wont happen again ,another piece of advice you need to talk to her dont worry about hurting her feelings ,she hurt you, if you want to talk about it she should be more than willing ,if she wants the marriage to work .I hope this helps. So far my husband isnt talking to me specificaly about what he did but he also had other issues ,and I am just being patient ,it takes time to heal a broken heart .

You have nothing to lose by doing the MB program. Even if you decide this marriage is disposable (that's what our culture promotes), this program will still work for you.

If you do not make changes, you will go on to another relationship with the same problems. So will she. So get busy and start reading all of the information here.

Both you and wife will have to work together on making your marriage better than you ever dreamed, but it can be done.

You have fought bigger enemies than this, I think you can do this.

I am a strong beleiver in sticking to it! I am a BS...its a very hurtful situation, but you also love the person who betrayed you. It's so hard and sometimes you find yourself in conflict because you think about it hard enough and realized maybe you should AIM higher. Why should i settle for a cheater? ... ha ha come to think of it.. aside from being a cheater, a liar, and someone who hurt you so much. You also see, all the hard work you've done in your marriage, all the love you've shared for years, and the pain you've overcome in the past years.

In your particular case, if she does it again. I wouldn't endure the pain. Everyone deserves a second chance and maybe in your case a third.. but if she is willing to work. I think the first step is to open up to her and try to work things out. So the very first thing is to open up.

As far as your best friend, make sure they do not see each other anymore. He has a wife also? And a child? I still cannot understand the cheater's mind.. so...

You know the more I read into this site I realize that this is so common and I start reading here and there and see ideas and thoughts from both the cheater and the faithful and hurt. So as I do I realize that this is an all too common occurance and that in itself breaks me up because as you said "disposable" is the coin-toss term now days.
I do think I will have to mention this site to my wife.
I am in a much safer situation than most, the best friend OM, as I have learned, is living in another states now and we no longer work together. I do think that I owe it both to myself, my W, and God to make this marriage work and part of that is dealing with the emotional aspect of this entire situation.
Should I have my wife see the posts that I have written so she will know the extent of the damage that has been done?

It is your choice to show her your post, but you and your wife should not have any secrets ,that is one of the most important things to building trust even if she is the one who cant be trusted .I hope you do get her involved in BM it is a great tool to helping everyone even if htey have no major issues.

Hello again,

I think it is very important to show your wife how you feel and share the pain of what she has done. If you act like it is no big deal then how will she understand what she has really done. How can she "get it" if you hide the pain. Your comment that she didn't seem to feel bad until she got caught says a great deal. She should be made aware of the pain that you are dealing with and hopefully she will tell herself she would never wish to inflict that on you again. Honesty with your feelings is a must otherwise what kind of message are you giving her? I wish you luck.

I don't know if you'll ever forget.

My WW had an affair over 5 years ago and the OM was my "best" friend and also my boss, so I understand your issues at work and the images you have in your mind. (We were married 15 years and had just renewed our wedding vows.) When I think back to when WW told me, I still experience the jolt of emotions that raced through my body in hurt and disbelief. I had horrible nightmares/flashbacks for years of them being together or her telling me about having an affair.

I'm further into this, but there are many parallels to our lives. Likewise, my WW comes from a family full of infidelity, and liars. I agree cheating/infidelity is an act of selfishness without thought to consequence. My WW couldn't look me in the eye either, when I confronted her she said no, but called me on the phone from work and told the truth about her affair.

You say you don't know if you can trust her again. Give thought to the possibility of being deployed again, even 10 years out. Not a business trip that you can CHOOSE to fly back early from if the marriage has some problems.

I'm onboard with BryanP - look real hard at where you are, there are lots of red flags. Not giving up compromising situations? Things are off to a bad start. You would not be "disposing" your marriage - you've kept your vows, you've done nothing wrong! You kept your word and oath - served our country, and at great personal expense. (God bless you.)

Part of my problem with my similar situation was the humiliation of my wife AND best friend having an affair right under my nose. I wasn't going to let anyone see how bad that hurt. I was equally concerned about "losing" my wife to my "friend" as I was concerned about staying with a wife that betrayed me. Regardless of emotional needs having an affair is of free choice and free will.

You're right, if it happens 10 years from now it may destroy you. I was 3 kids and 15 years into the marriage come D-Day, it destroyed me. There's a lot of emotional investment into it by that time. Betrayed by the two people I trusted, confided in, was friends with. There was no clean way out. Bottome line is the kids would have been the ones to suffer the consequences of her actions - not her, not me.

As you say, no two people have the same response to the same situation. In your mind, trade places with me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> believer Your wife has acted very poorly. However in her defense, she was put in a very bad situation. You were gone, she was worried about you, and scared and lonely. And there was your friend living with her and meeting her emotional needs. <hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr /> I think even the best women here might have slipped under these circumstances. <hr /></blockquote>Please. Stop. What's JKE to change a month into a marriage and then being deployed? Are you defending or justifying the breaking of marital vows by not meeting EN's a month into a marriage?

Forgot to add:

Got a "reminder" the other night while having sex - she said his name. (OM's) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Put those visions of them right back in my mind. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Says she doesn't remember saying that or know how or why. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

losing -
I did not mean the A was justified. I CAN see how it happened. I work at Camp Pendleton and see it all of the time. It is very difficult to be young and newly married and have spouse deployed. The "friend" living with her added fuel to the fire.

Put yourself in her shoes. Imagine that you are terrified about spouse being killed in Iraq (and the spouses are). Add to that you are living with a person of the opposite sex, who is probably comforting you. Then tell me that you are absolutely certain that you would remain faithful. I am a BS who has never dreamed of cheating, and I can see the pitfalls in her situation. After all we make mistakes.

You know when I first heard the rumor about this whole situation I tried so hard not to believe but logic told me otherwise and when I confronted my friend I even told him that I could see how it happened.
I guess it makes you feel like you're not as important anymore, you know, that you're only important when you're there. I don't know.
I understand how it happened, I just don't understand how she or my "friend" let it happen. That's the hardest part of it all is trying to understand how did someone not say no, this can't happen, think about Joseph.
And then my friend, how stupid could he be to go around telling people at work?

You are right - you are the innocent party in all of this. When my H started seeing OW, it was right under my nose. Her H deployed.

So just like you he is the innocent one. He had no idea anything was going on. I was worried and asked my H why he was so withdrawn, but he told me things would get better. Meanwhile he was sleeping with OW.

So I felt really bad, because I was unimportant even when I was here, and trying to work on marriage.

My H's OW's H is named Joseph too. When I think about it, it makes me furious that this happened to him. He came back to no wife, no job, no thanks. I asked my H how he could do that to someone. He said he would make amends to him. Yeah right, he continued the A.

Committing to serve your country, taking an oath.

Committing to love and honor your spouse, giving your vows.

This is interesting, in both instances one gives their word.

It was another long weekend of feeling down and a constant mental separation from my wife. It's almost as if I've shut down all my emotions because I'm afraid to give into them again. I wish that somehow I could erase everything that happened and start over. I even told her that we needed to start dating again, but to be honest our problems in our relationship go further than just infidelity. We are constantly broke, living from paycheck to paycheck, well whatever, anyways. The hardest part about this is how disgusted I am that it all happened. I don't know if it's something that you just get over. Sometimes I feel like I should just go and pick a girl and sleep with her so maybe my wife can truly understand the emotional damage it does to the other person. I don't think that my self esteem has ever been so low. You know my heart tells me to give it a chance and work things out because with everything reward comes risk, but I don't know how much of a risk I'm willing to take for someone who showed me how little they really think of me. I would have never let myself get in that situation, and if I were in that situation and I found it getting like it did between them, I would have made a change. I tried to tell her how I felt and her synopsis of what I said was that she doesn't want to live in the past. I can't escape it.

I have been reading post after post and reading about Plan A and Plan B and sometimes it feels like maybe right now is just the time I need for me, you know to get all of the kinks out. I have been checking this site daily to see if there is some kind of miracle advice out there that will make all of the pain and discomfort go away and I have yet to find one. I just read what a WS said about her A and realized that many of the questions that her H asked I have failed to but wanted to. I finally got up the nerve to ask her if there had been any others, if they had used protection and even if my hunch of when it happened were correct. I guess the more we talk about it the less I have to ask later but it is just so difficult to talk about it. IIt still makes me so furious to even think about it happening and the fact that my "best" friend can cop out be saying he's a man, and what man wouldn't take it. I'm furious that my wife can cop it up to, I don't want to live in the past, the fact is that she had a choice and there was definately time to choose right from wrong. She chose wrong and it hurts every time I think about it. I try to see her point of view, you know the one that I give her credit for even though she hasn't said it. She was alone, she was scared, bla, bla, blah....but I wouldn't do that to her and if the situation arose there would be so many opportunities to say no that eventually I would have. She said that there were no feelings, and that they never kissed or anything, but I know her (I THINK) and one of the things that I know is, she's not quick, she takes her time, she kisses, fondles and flirts. While it's somewhat comforting to know that she didn't have feelings for my best friend, who now I feel like I could never compete with, I also see this as something even more disturbing, that she basically just gave up on her vows, her commitment, and her morals for a quick piece that meant nothing. I mean how many times will this happen in our lives? I just, well sometimes, I can't handle it.

JKE,
First of all thank you for serving.

I can empathize with your feelings. It sounds as though you are having a tough time dealing with the humiliation. I assume this since you refernced people at work knowing. My counselor told me that anytime I see someone who knows I shouldn't assume that they are thinking about it. People have busy lives and most don't dwell on anothers problems.

I agree with your comments about this web site and the difficulty you are having sharing your feelings with friends and family. Most men are caught in a paradox.They need to share there feelings in order to work though them but they either don't want to share them or have diifculty sharing them with friends and family because it can inrease the feelings of humiliation. MB is the perfect forum for us because we can post, vent, whine or whatever and its completelt anonimous.

Your post reminded me of a book that I read last year, "Jar Head." One entire chapter was devoted to the existence and prevalence of infidelity on the home front. This author was stationed for training out at Twenty Nine Palms. He described how he would stand outside of his barracks and watch all of the "late night & early morning traffic." He meant all of the lonely Marine wives driving to see their temporary boyfriends and vice versa. He said the Marines described it as a big joke until it happened to someone in their unit. I was appalled.

To top it off the OM was your best friend.

My guess is that your W is relatively young. Although all age groups fall prey to infidelity, it seems as though the "married young" types are more prone. Probably related to immaturity.

Your W's background also comtributed as you referenced. She grew up in a family where her role models were cheats.

Is your W over the OM? Has she written a NC letter? She needs to understand that she should never turn to someone of the opposite sex for support. In order of preference she should turn to 1) you 2) a qualified counselor 3) a non-peer group, pro-marriage female. Until she understands that she really can't be plutonic with males and especially old boyfriends, this story may repeat itself especially if you are redeployed.

I'd suggest counseling asap. For the usual MB reasons but also for another in your case. It is a necessary fact that the military trains you to be aggressive. When they send you home they aren't super concerned about neutralizing the training. Even the most mild mannered male will have outbreaks of rage over infidelity. Mix that with a little alcohol and some military training and one minute of irrational behaviour may bring a lifetime of hurt.

I wish you well.
cwmac

JKE

PS
Your topic title was "How do I forget." The answer is you probably never will. Hopefully you will be able to get to a point where you can forgive.

I am currently on that road.

cwmac

That last post was really thoughtful and inspiring because the simple fact is that's what I need to hear.
You know some days I don't even think about it but then all it takes is a random thought and it all comes crashing back down on me, everything that happened. I start seeing them together, and I see the three of us together after I got back and they act like nothing happened. I despise that. However, I can't change what happened. I hate how things are right now though. I have always been caring and affectionate and now it seems like I can't be that person any longer with her. I never tell her I love her unless she tells me first and sometimes I just look at her and it makes me so angry, I have not expressed to her how angry this has made me, I only talk about how hurt I am. This is my one chance to vent.
One thing is, the night she told me, I threw out all the alcohol in the house, threw it right out in the woods. I don't think that it's welcome in my house any longer much like plutonic friends, my "best" friend, or infidelity.

M 1-23-03
D-Date 10-16-03
OM was best friend
W admitted 1-31-03

If you have read my other posts you know my situation, I just talked to a counselor for the first time today and I confronted my friend at work that I had tried so hard not to believe about the A, I told him I was sorry I didn't believe him and blamed him.
Right now I am feeling like something has got to give, I don't know what, don't know how, and don't know when, but this is so hard to deal with you know.
I'm going to suggest going to the counselor to my W in hopes that she will want to.
It's hard trying to show any affection these days and even harder to believe it won't happen again.
Things have slowed down so much that now all I have is time to think about it. I wish it would go away. For all BS I am so sorry for the anguish and pain that I have no doubt you have had to deal with and I applaud those that have turned this into a positive rather than dwelling on the negative, I don't have that strength though. I don't have that capability at this time. My work is my refuge and sometimes I don't want to go home.
As Valentine's Day approaches I think I am more concerned with keeping myself sane than showing love and affection. Somebody tell me it gets easier.

JKE,
earlier you said.....
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> One thing is, the night she told me, I threw out all the alcohol in the house, threw it right out in the woods. <hr /></blockquote>Good idea. That is just "fuel for the fire." Whether for you or for your W. BS's especially tend to self medicate too much. It can also really drive the emotions especially if someone is mixing anti-depressants & alcohol.

What did your counselor have to say?? Hopefully he is agood one that doesn't tell you to immediately throw in the towel. I know it's hard but try to postpone making any major decisions on the M for awhile.

What is you W's attitude these days?

Keep trying.

cwmac

I've been trying to deal with my wife's A (her 4th in nearly 30 years of marriage) currently she is in Iraq and it will be another 4 months before she returns and we can see if we can work this out. When she came back from the Gulf War it was so painfull. I found a used condom in her back pocket when she finally got home. We had to deal with that A along with returning from a war zone. Our councelor at the time said that I would just have to let her do whatever she wants. Good advice for her not so good for me.

Our kids were young at the time so I hung in there. They are grown now and away from home but it is still going to be hell when she returns. How do you help someone deal with returning from a war zone and deal with an A also. Too old and tired to keep doing this! I tried to pick out a Valentine's Day card recently but her A made all of them seem like a joke. Sorry din't mean to vent on your post just wanted you to know there are a lot of people going through it. Good Luck.

Hi JKE,

I have read your thread and I am sorry for what you're going through. I skimmed what others told you so this might have been said:

I haven't forgotten (I am 4 months in). But the emotional impact held by the thoughts, images, & memories has changed a great deal over the last months. Some things that were unbearable to think of 4 months ago don't bother me too much now. Yes, many other things still hurt ... but not as much as back then.

cwmac, deephurt, and cpx,
Thanks for posting and for talking. Lately I've found that when I start thinking of it, you know seeing the images, thinking about the fact that I meant absolutely nothing to the two of them, I just stop and think about the good times that we have had. I told her the other night that this won't be easy and it's not just something that I can easily forget or get over. I told her that I have put up walls unintentionally that sometimes I can't take down, I told her that sometimes I can fight them and they won't come up and then other times they're just there and I can't do anything about them. The Valentine's day was a joke here, I took her out to an expensive dinner and then came home and went to sleep. I mean seriously, just went home and slept. The other night we had traveled to visit a friend and we stayed in a hotel over night and I couldn't make love to her. The next day I told her that the walls went up when she had started with a conversation about birth control and it just reminded me of the fact she's been on birth control for about seven years and we've only been together for three of them and that got me, well you know how it is, it snowballed until I couldn't share intimacy with her. It's so sad because she will tell me how much she misses me and wants me to come back and I'll sit there thinking, unable to talk at all, and I'll just remember all the times that I used to feel like I could tell her anything.
I'm very angry at the OM because I feel like he needs to hear what he's really done to my relationship through his selfishness and neglect. I am sickened to think of what friends do you know.
It all snowballs.

Plan A/Plan B, which one, which one indeed?
I think that I'm fair in saying that those who choose Plan A are willing to work things out, that they don't want to lose their spouses and are able to accept and move on in regards to the affair. Those who choose Plan B are unable to accept, unable to move on, and maybe don't know if there's anything worth saving.
I'm having a terrible time right now because I believe that I have unintentionally moved from A to B and have created a wall that I can't seem to get out of.
I spend all day acting as if nothing happened while I'm at work and then the entire 25 minutes it takes to get home after work I argue with her and tell her how I feel, I vent to my steering wheel, rearview mirror, and emergency brake. I get home and I can't speak.
I'm emotionally decaying because I know what I was once, and now I'm totally different. I do care, but I only see things happening again, another cycle of me giving myself to her and being hurt again. It's hard to tell someone that you thought so much of for so long that now the only side you can see is the bad side and a mistake they made, I started with HOW DO YOU FORGET because I don't think I was willing to forgive.
I miss being able to trust, promises holding water, and the "warm and fuzzies" of yesterday. I'm left with blank stares, a cold shoudler, and a regret for allowing this to happen.
I don't know if I just want things to get worse or if they are destined to but I was told any two people in the world who want it to work can make it work, I'm just questioning if I want it to work.
I've always been the one to put more into it, the one to give all of myself, I used to do it because it's what I wanted to do, because it's what I felt was right. Now I only do it because it's what she expects, what she's used to, and what she's comfortable with.
It's like I'm making all of these sacrifices in myself to make sure that her self esteem is high, to make sure she doesn't feel guilty, to make sure she doesn't feel hurt, and that my friends is the foundation for the walls keeping me out of my marriage, not the foundation opon which I should attempt to rebuild my marriage.
Honesty is the best policy, but how do I say, well my wife, woman I promised to love, I don't know if I want to love you anymore, or be married to you because of what you've done to me in the past? How do I say that? Please help.

JKE,
All I can say is that I felt the exact same way from DDay2 until just recently for nearly 6 months. I wondered if I really wanted to stay married to my W. How could I ever love her again?; I asked myself. I thought about "them" when we were intimate. It was very tough. I had panic/ irrational attacks. I even made a deal with myself to stay married to her until my youngest is 18.

The time that we've spent together recently has paid off. I feel close to her again. I feel warm feelings for her. It's not perfect but it is alot better.

My opinion is "keep your mouth shut until you truely make a decision." If she asks you how your feeling tell her that your still having difficulties but I wouldn't tell her that your thinking of dumping her because in 6 months you may have changed your mind. If in 6-12 months you haven't changed your mind you can always tell her it's not working.

Are you in MC? Also my irrational attacks didn't stop until I got on AD's. You may want to consider this. They aren't addictive. I'm on Welibutron (sp?)

Don't let your pride ruin your future.

cwmac

cwmac,
That's really important what you just said about not letting pride ruin this. I have so far not done anything to tell her that she should leave, in fact the only thing I told her to do is to not give up on me. Today is our 13 month mark being married and the last week we probably only had about two hours of combined dialogue because I just couldn't talk. This morning I wrote her a very long e-mail explaining that I'm not comfortable right now and that I have a huge emtional burden to deal with. Part of keeping myself from saying hurtful things and making decisions that I would probably regret is to just not talk about it, so that also makes me not open up my heart to show her affection and attention.
She told me that she's tired of being alone, misses me, and really misses us, if there is an us anymore.
It's difficult as you know. I told her that I love her and always have but I don't feel safe with her right now and I have so much on my mind all the time.
We aren't in MC and I've though about AD's but haven't done anything about it yet. I want to talk to her family, especially her mom, she is a BS and has been trying to work on her relationship for over a year and a half now I believe. Her parents have been through so many ups and downs the past couple of years and I think that I could learn from them even though the situation is not quiet the same.
Intimacy is still a challenge and I try to keep my hormones distinguished from my feelings and my heart because there's a heavy price to pay for acting like on is the other.
I hope though, that the e-mail I sent out this morning will help her to understand that there are some things that we need to discuss but right now there is just too much anger and resentment to discuss them. Time will tell and that's why I have asked her not to give up and told her that I haven't either.
She has said maybe she should leave, I have thought maybe she should leave, but neither one of us are jumping to take that step and I believe that's because we both still have some hope and faith in ourselves and our relationship that we can make it through this, it's just a lot easier when you're comfortable talking about and able to look at it from the outside than when you're caught in the middle and gunshy about words.
Thanks for posting though and I hope that your relationship will find it's purpose as well.

JKE,
Please take my sage advice on two things:

1) Go to a doctor tomorrow and ask to be put on an AD ie Welibutron. I have always been a very calm person but the A turned this upside down and I got very emotional and early on lashed out verbally. Called her names etc. Didn't help matters. Sound familiar? The AD's tend to flatten out the emotional peaks and valleys.

2) You can't do this alone! You need to get some professional help asap. Preferablt a counselor who can relate to what both you and your W are going thru and can then relate that feeling to the other one. For example your W needs to know that it is going to take time before you can be loving again and you need to know that that is exactly what she needs at this point.

You need to reach out to your W. Tell her that you want to at try to make things. Tell her your willing to pay for MC regardless of the cost because your M is your number one priority.

I promise you that your negative feelings will pass with time.

cwmac

I spoke to my wife today prior to her reading the e-mail and told her what it said in summary. I also told her a few of the things that you just said, that we need help to get through this, we need time, and I may need some ADs pumping through me. So we're at an understanding right now that I know she needs my love and affection and she knows that I'm on the downside of a roller coaster about ninety percent of the time. So basically just talking about our feelings without going into detail caused us to understand each other without hurting each other.
We'll be able to talk to someone eventually as well, she showed interest in it today.

JKE,
That talk was a good start. Please follow up on the other suggestions.

The sooner you start the MC the better.

Also remember that M & W communicate differently and therefore handle problems differently. Men want to problem solve while Women want to talk about the issue to feel better. A great book that talks about this is Men are from Mars and Women are ... Venus. This might be a good book to start with because it doesn't specifically deal with A's. O would then get and read together Harley's Surviving an Affair. This will help you understand what she may be going thru and it should help her to do the same (especially if you are the same typical non-communicative male as I am)

cwmac

I got home last night and after not talking, anything but small talk for about an hour, I told her that I drive home every day telling her exactly how I feel, I let it all out and then as soon as she opens the door and I see her, I shut it all off, and that I guessed that one of the reasons that I can't show affection is because once I shut off the communication, everything shuts off.
She told me it felt like we were two strangers living together instead of husband and wife, which is ironic because that's what I told her after I returned from deployment to her and my best friend in the apartment. So anyways, after all of this I told her that I think another reason why I don't show emotions is because I'm afraid that I'll break down, it's hard for me to open up to how I feel with her because it turns into me having to comfort her, always.
Last night she just kept crying for two hours, looking up at me and saying she's sorry, saying she doesn't deserve me, and even told me that she would give me her ring back. I wasn't able to say anything but broke the tear session by offering her some kool-aid. I went into the kitchen, poured some kool-aid and then put some whip cream on the top of my head, weird right?
Well I walked back in and she didn't even notice the whip cream, so I said, I read somewhere that when you put whip cream on your head it helps with oral sex. So she looked at my forehead and started laughing.
So like I said, it's never my turn to let out anything, she either shuts off and quits talking or she breaks down and I spend a couple of hours trying to restore her.
I think that this forum is good for me because I can vent but I don't have to take it out on her.
She said she would do anything she can to help this marriage, I almost want her to tell her family, I don't know if it would help the situation though, but I think that's part of truly identifying what is that makes you do these types of things. I know for a fact her mother and father would want an explanation that maybe I'm not the easiest person in the world to explain it to....I'm rambling, but hopefully somewhat out there is hearing me.
Laughter is the best medicine and it worked last night, but this is no comedy I'll tell you that.

God bless your marriage! He does indeed work miracles, and continues to work them in mine. I know God sent MB programs to our rescue after we both had affairs. Still healing from much shame, hurt, anger, etc., but surely we could never do this for ourselves. Please keep us in your prayers. I'll keep you in mine. It's been over a year now, and I'm struggling with my husband's flirting. This weekend we went away for my birthday weekend, visited my old high school friend. I handled things very well, but so very disappointed how they left me out, almost cuddled together. Just disgusting. Any advice? Am I fooling myself? We've actually come a long way. I haven't said anything to him and not sure I should.

prov31,
I have to be honest with you that I'm probably in no position to give advice myself being fairly new at marriage. I have learned that speaking your mind is a double sided sword though, one which can work miracles towards good, or create chaos with bad. So I don't know if you should say something or not but I can imagine that one key step in conflict resolution is to identify the problem and you can't do that with him until you talk about it. I'm facing the same thing, I can't tell my wife that the hardest thing I'm having to deal with is trusting her again after she so easily lied to me and manipulated me so that she wouldn't have to feel guilty, it's very hard you know. But as you can read through the hundreds of posts on this site, there are so many people out there that are going through the same thing. So many people that are strong one day and weak the next, and so this site becomes like a security blanket. My hope is that through using this site I will lose the need for this site and turn my wife into my security blanket again as she once was long ago.
I have problems with plutonic friends (especially now) and even more of a problem with touchy-feely plutonic friends. From personal experience I know why I was a touchy-feely friend to females prior to my marriage, basically to flirt, get them interested, and pull them in. It seemed the easiest way to do so without blatently disrespecting them and going for the kill was to learn how they think, learn how they feel, and offer them a shoulder always, simply manipulative on my part and maybe that's why this has happened to me. I must say though that those friends are something to worry about but in the end the most important thing, I think we can all agree on, is that you should be able to look at yourself and be happy with your decisions.
My only enemy right now is my own willingness to fail.
With that being said, I have to decide what is failing and what is winning and if the past eight years of my life are any clue as to my dreams, goals, and current disposition, I know that my way to win is not failing at this marriage on my part. A huge contrast compared to some of my posts I know, but in the end, I always know that she is the love of my life and I was blessed with her, even being remotely involved with her has made me a better person.
So I rambled and probably didn't get to the point, just make sure you're happy with you and then carry that happiness into your conversations with him regardless of how "blue" the situation or topic may be.
God Bless you too.

Haven't posted for along time, but here is my 2 cents. You do need to get mc. your mind can drive you crazy and just run out of control. I know alot of times people are sorry for affairs. My x was sorry-when he got caught-and you can forgive and "try" to move on. But, I think the ones that had the affair, just does not realize what it has done. Your may love that person and want to forgive, but it changes your feelings about them forever. I tried, I prayed, for 5 years, but could never feel the same about x. I distanced myself from him emotionally, then physically, until it was over-a slow death. We were married 23 years and one weekend changed my marriage forever, and you can't get it back. It's so sad and I guess everyone deals with it differently. I wish I could have, but I couldn't.

Godhelpme,
I think that may be the cornerstone of my problems with talking about the A. I am afraid it will lead into your situation, years of prolonging a relationship that doesn't fulfill either one of us, but talking will help us get to the real root of the problems we have because there has to be a reason why she couldn't say no.
I'm sorry to hear about your marriage and it's end but I commend you for trying to work through it.

You know, I honestly believe there are people who are going to do this no matter what you say or do in a marriage. If the opportunity is there, they are going to take it. I think they are born that way. His dad, mom, sisters, brothers, all did it. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. I found out that wasn't the first time either. I know that he loved me. I don't think it had anything to do with me. It is just the way he is. You can choose to live like that, or not. His mom and dad stayed together, with both them knowing it went on all the time. Now he is furious that I don't do the same. He will not speak to me at all. So, I sure wouldn't go blaming myself. Do some research and find out how your spouse is wired. I finally came to the conclusion that I was not the blame and chose not to live like that anymore. It is very, very painful, but I do think that god has something better for me down the road. Can't wait to meet him!!

JKE -
After reading your posts, I believe what you need is a starting point.

I don't believe you need plan A, or plan B. They are plans to end an active affair.

You need to follow the 4 rules for a successful marriage - and you need to start now.

After an A ends, even if the WS is remorseful it takes some time for the BS (Betrayed spouse - you) to get over the A. Sometimes it takes TOO long, and the Former Wayward Spouse (FWS) doesn't have enough grit to wait. I suggest you make a recovery plan and begin recovery, because it looks like you still wonder.

I believe you wonder IF it can be done, and also you are unsure about HOW to do it.

From reading your posts, I think you are in much better shape than many here. I am not talking about your emotional condition - which is always a mess, but I am speaking of your chances for recovery. It looks like the affair is over, and your W is remorseful. That is a really, really good start.

Remember that you could have walked away. You still can if you want, but you have chosen to work on your M. I commend you for that, but you need a battle plan, or you will continue to stall your own recovery.

Dr Harley has written much on this site to aid you, perhaps you have read most, or all of it. I will point you to some material, but I recommend you get his books - His needs, Her needs, and also Surviving An Affair. I believe these books would help you a great deal in formulating a plan of recovery.

Here is a good place to start -
Four rules for recovery

The four rules are about half way down the page, but reading the whole thing will give a good background (even though the example given is different than your situation.)

I hope you don't mind if I make some recommendations.

To start, you have to DO SOMETHING. You are talking to her, and then she feels bad - and you feel bad, but what you are not doing is getting out of the holding pattern of doubt, guilt, pain, and fear.

Start by making a plan to spend time with each other. 15 hours a week minimum. Watching TV, and other things where there is little interaction don't count. Observe the other rules while you are together. Decide in advance if there can be discussion about your relationship during whatever activity you are doing. You can talk about your dreams, your fears, your goals, and so on, but not always about what happened, and your feelings. Be creative - we discussed what we could do if someone gave us a billion dollars - ask her something off the wall like that. Talk about where you want to be in five years, (not YOU, yourself, YOU, the two of you - "Honey, where would you like to see us in 5 years."

Where do you want to live when you retire.
If you could build your dream home - where would it be, and what features would it have?

All these things are fun, but they also suggest a future together. She will pick up on that.

Read up on the other rules, and incorporate them into your plan. Protect her - ask her to protect you. Extend care to her - not doubt. Be positive.

Act like things are going to work. Pretend like they are. Can't you quit any time you want? Really, can't you? If you give a good effort for 6 months and you still have misgivings, can't you bail out? You have freedom to do whatever you want, and so why not give it your best effort while you think about it?

Mostly you need time to heal. It takes a long time - but you will notice a difference in 6 months, and by 18 months from now, you will feel so good you won't be able to remember some of these terrible feelings you have now.

Marriage can be a wonderful, beautiful experiance. Somehow I believe yours will be again. It will not be easy, and there will be times when you doubt, and perhaps even times when you want to quit, but make a plan, run that plan for a year - set that as a goal, and do the best you can for the duration of your plan.

Remember you are free - because you are. Realize you have choices - realize your choice to stay tells us something (and it tells you too) about what kind of person you are. Realize you can make this work - and begin.

The things you worry about - why she couldn't say no, how to get things out of your head - all these will work themselves out as you work your plan. Trust Dr Harley on this one, and start.

SS

[ February 25, 2004, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SS,
Thanks for writing and guiding me to those materials, I think that with both my wife and I actually wanting and needing things to get better following these guidelines and learning our most important emotional needs will really help.
Last night was the first night I told her about this site. I have had a hard time talking to her about this whole thing since I first learned of it and last night I told her how I felt and how it hurt me and why. I didn't get to really let all of my emotions out that I feel but we had some sort of connection after talking.
This is so hard, I love her though and I told her she should look at this site too because I think that it would help her.

Hi,
I am back on this forum after not being here awhile and was reading stories that somewhat deal with what i went through 2 yrs ago. For one thing,you NEVER really do forget what has happened to you,it's devestating like death! Some say to forgive and forget but i know it's hard. My husband had an affair here on our computer! It was the ''online affair' which is and can be more devestating than othe types of affairs. Feel free to write me back! I would like to have more pen pals to talk to:)

Amy

I am printing out all of the questionnares that Dr. Harley has posted on his site. I am thinking that tonight I will go home and make some popcorn and my wife and I will sit down and fill them out and then use the "floor" to talk about what we wrote down.
I asked her last night why she didn't say no, and she was silent for a good five minutes, I asked her if she was awake and she said yeah. She finally told me she didn't say no because she was drunk.
I don't know why but I rolled over and turned my back to her and then got my pillow and a blanket out of the linen closet and headed to the couch. She came into the living room and she let me talk for about ten minutes about why this is so hard for me.
I really wish that this had never happened but even though "resentment" and "anger" are often part of my life now, I feel that using this site and it's basic concepts can help us so much.
I'm looking forward to going home tonight and feeling these out, maybe we can really learn more about ourselves and the mystery that seems to surround our pasts will fall away.
I don't know if she has looked at this site yet or not, but I'm hoping that she will. I really miss being able to be myself with her, although she probably misses it much more.
I'll tell you our first year of marriage was really a pinnacle challenge for both of us with so many changes, so many new things and Lord, so much temptation.
The other night she had wrote down all of the numbers stored in her cell phone that we just turned off. I noticed guys numbers on it and she saw that I got a look in my eyes that didn't seem too happy about the numbers. To make a long story short, she blacked out the numbers. I was thinking the whole time that I guess it isn't her old friends I need to worry about, it's my friends, no my best friends, and then finally, no it's her. These are the kind of thoughts that I don't like having you know.
I just read on one of his articles that you should never trust your spouse because anyone can fall to temptation, so who do you trust? In the Bible, not sure of the verse but positive that it's found in II Corinthians, it says that love is patient, love is kind, and love is trusting (rough summary.) Trust is so hard and even harder now.
Well I've vented for the day I guess and hopefully, wish me luck please, when we fill out those questions tonight we will learn how to be better with each other.
Thanks for reading, and Dr. Harley, I have to thank you so much for all of the advice that you give so freely here on your site, I'm really thankful.

Hi again, I see you are still working things out in your mind. It takes a long time. Your feelings won't change in the next week or so - but you have to start recovery anyway. I am glad you are doing the questionnaires, it really helps. There are sometimes other factors - if you were to talk to one of the Marriage Builders counselors, you may be able to find out just why she did what she did - however, the way you are doing it may make things worse. Lets review some of what you said.

I asked her last night why she didn't say no, and she was silent for a good five minutes, I asked her if she was awake and she said yeah. She finally told me she didn't say no because she was drunk.

You want that answer really bad - in your heart you want her to come up with a reason - so that you can better cope with what happened. Hopefully it would be something to the effect that it was much more his fault that hers.

As for her, she doesn't know the reason, so she tries to figure it out. I can tell you from experience that this isn't where you want to go. Often it takes the course of her finding something she doesn't like about you - and giving that as the reason whether or not it is THE REAL REASON. It goes like this: You want a reason, but she doesn't know the reason, so she tries to think of one to make you happy. She believes the reason she thinks of, and sometimes it ( that manufactured reason) casts you in a bad light and makes recovery much more difficult.

She probably doesn't understand the WHY of this any more than an alcoholic understands why he or she can't refuse a drink. This may be something that she will be able to help you with later after both of you are:
1. In love again.
2. Fully recovered.
3. Well versed in MB methods -
and finally
4. When you both come to understand your selves much better than you do now.

I don't know why but I rolled over and turned my back to her and then got my pillow and a blanket out of the linen closet and headed to the couch. She came into the living room and she let me talk for about ten minutes about why this is so hard for me.

She is trying - but you are giving her a loose/loose situation.

You ask her a question, she gives you an answer - the best she can at the time, and you reject her. Loose/Loose. If she doesn't answer, she will get rejection, if she does, she gets rejected anyway.

If you want to recover, you need to protect her feelings too. I know - I understand your reaction to this.

The way you feel, she ought to crawl on the floor to you and beg your forgiveness.

The question to ask is this:
Do you want to punish her, or do you want to recover. If you want to recover, you have to start acting like it. Even though she is the one that strayed, you have to guide recovery. That may not be fair, but it is ofteh the way things are. If you want you can leave, but if you choose to stay, the best way to recover is to treat her with kindness and forgivness.

I really wish that this had never happened but even though "resentment" and "anger" are often part of my life now, I feel that using this site and it's basic concepts can help us so much. I'm looking forward to going home tonight and feeling these out, maybe we can really learn more about ourselves and the mystery that seems to surround our pasts will fall away.

You will continue to learn, and you will experience personal growth and she will also. I believe you will also experience relationship growth. Both of you will grow together. I began my journey here about two years ago by reading thousands of posts. I can tell you that what you read in the concepts section of this site will really work if you will live them, not just read about them. I have seen it here in the lives of thousands, and also in my own life.

Please back off from the questions FOR NOW. Wait until the feelings of being in love come back to both of you, and the feelings of hate, anger, doubt, and fear leave you, and the feelings of guilt leave her. She is repentant, she loves you, she has much guilt. You help her, she will help you. At the very worst, explain to her that your feelings won't let you be close sometimes, but that you feel that you will get over it. Ask her to help you when you have the bad times - if you feel the need to sleep on the couch, tell her you love her, and these feelings are temporary ( even if you don't believe it, say it anyway, and trust me on this one.) Tell her you believe you can work through this in time. Pretend you are doing better than you are. This has a basis in actual research. Marshall Goldsmith - who runs an executive coaching company has done research that shows that your attitude will change if you change your behavior. That is, if you act positive, sure of your recovery, sure of her love for you, your attitude (and many of these bad thoughts) will change. That is something you have to do for a time all by your self (OK, God will help too) by strength of will.

I don't know if she has looked at this site yet or not, but I'm hoping that she will. I really miss being able to be myself with her, although she probably misses it much more.

Act like the old you - the feelings will come back much more quickly if you will do this.

I'll tell you our first year of marriage was really a pinnacle challenge for both of us with so many changes, so many new things and Lord, so much temptation. The other night she had wrote down all of the numbers stored in her cell phone that we just turned off. I noticed guys numbers on it and she saw that I got a look in my eyes that didn't seem too happy about the numbers. To make a long story short, she blacked out the numbers. I was thinking the whole time that I guess it isn't her old friends I need to worry about, it's my friends, no my best friends, and then finally, no it's her. These are the kind of thoughts that I don't like having you know.

Marriage is difficult. The story goes that once there was a young girl who felt her home life was way too oppressive. She had a steady boy friend that she thought she loved, and she was overjoyed when he proposed. After she had accepted, and the boy had taken her home, she retired to her room and remarked to herself: "now I am at the end of all my troubles."
Her mother (walking down the hall) heard her remark, and said to herself: "yes, but which end."

When you get your drivers license, you receive training. When you get married you get none. We are in love, and we think nothing of it, but it is more difficult, and it is far more important. You are just now getting your training, and what you are learning - if you will both embrace it and use it - will transform your relationship into what you envisioned when you first made your vows.

I just read on one of his articles that you should never trust your spouse because anyone can fall to temptation, so who do you trust?

You put systems in place that ensure that an affair won't happen because of the system, not because of: "Oh, I trust her, so I don't worry about it. "
You both become accountable for your time. You both call when plans change, you don't have secret e-mail accts.. You do away with independent behavior (which is well covered in the book "Love Busters" and by the way, I recommend the books because they have done so much for us - this stuff really worked for us. You don't spend time alone with members of the opposite sex. You don't confide in others things that ought to remain between Husband and Wife. DR Harley coves these things well.

In the Bible, not sure of the verse but positive that it's found in II Corinthians, it says that love is patient, love is kind, and love is trusting (rough summary.)

Yes, this is exactly what I have been trying to get across. You need to act this way - pretend if you have to. This is your primer about how to recover. You don't feel this way, so you act like it until you do feel like it.

If you are a practicing Christian, you are bound by your beliefs to live as Christ would have you live, and he reserves revenge to himself - you and I get to forgive. You have an out for adultery, (you can divorce if you want) but the blessings are there for forgiveness if that is what you choose. The signs are there that your W loves you and wants to recover, so act patient, kind, and so on, and those feelings will come along as you continue to act as though you have them. As far as trusting - there are things you should trust. Trust her when she says she still loves you. She is there - she hasn't left. Trust when she says she wants to recover - but realize she doesn't know how, and don't hold that against her. Everyone makes mistakes (but this was way worse than a normal mistake, I know that) - it's what they do after the mistake that shows who they really are. It will show who she really is, and it will show what you are made of also.

Trust is so hard and even harder now.
Don't trust some things. DR Harley explains that better in his materials, so I won't go into details here, but you can look it up.

Well I've vented for the day I guess and hopefully, wish me luck please, when we fill out those questions tonight we will learn how to be better with each other.

For every hour you spend with her in relationship talks, spend at least one doing something you both ENJOY - riding a skateboard (just kidding?) or skiing, or listening to music, or playing checkers, or strolling down the mall, or riding a bike, or playing tennis, or - well, do the questionnaire for recreational activities - and you will know how to spend it, but alternate this relationship stuff with some relaxation and fun - I am telling you this from experience.

Thanks for reading,

You do know we care about you don't you? Ha, you think we get paid to do this?
Just teasing again. We want to see you happy and well adjusted though your mom says there may be a problem with this last part.
Ok, OK, I need to knock off the teasing.

I want to see you succeed. BOTH of you.

Let us know how this goes tonight - and YOU BETTER DO SOME FUN STUFF WITH HER TOO.

SS

PS, one more request. Please break up your posts into paragraphs like I did mine to you. It makes it much easier to read your post. - and thanks.

SS

Wow, I don't believe that anyone has ever analyzed and interpretted what I have said, typed, or otherwise that well in years. I am really thankful that you decided to post to my topic.

Last night was probably the first stepping stone in our way back up and I'll tell you that I think we both have a new found relief that I can't exactly put into words.

I decided that one of our problems was not knowing each others pasts well enough prior to getting married. Many things that had happened to us were never dicussed, mostly on her part.

There were looming questions eating me up especially after she confirmed my fear.

So, we took the Personal History Questionnare and filled it out together. Many things in there I had been suspicous of but never knew the truth or the circumstances. I realized that my wife was not the person she had led on to be, but rather an even greater person to have gone through things that she went through and then still choose me.

I discovered the truth behind our separation, the truth behind her mistake, and I discovered the truth behind myself as well.

It was just beautiful and truly lifted weight off of my shoulders and I'm sure hers as well.

I told her that there is nothing that she can't tell me and assured her that her honesty is more important to me than anything else because I believe that we can handle anything.

I can't discuss what was said but I just have to say that as a result of your post and the hyperlink you provided I actually read into and applied some of the basic concepts.

I thank God for sending this site, Dr. Harley, and you to me yesterday. I can't say enough how much last night helped. I know my faults in her eyes, I know the reasons behind her dramatic change, and we both know the foundation on which the rest of our marriage should be built.

Thank you so much for being so attentive and forthcoming.

Ironic that yesterday my wife received two job offers after being declined for every job she has looked for in the past 6 months. Ironic that the whole night we spoke as friends again. No, not irony but beauty.

God is blessing us now and to feel His strength is, well I can't come up with the words.

Thank you.

I thought that it would be appropriate to paste the e-mail I sent to my wife this morning within this forum, I want you to see how just one night of actually trying, being honest, and listening can change your entire outlook.

I just wanted to write you quickly this morning and tell you congrats on your job, well not only that but pretty much getting two calls in one day offering (mostly) positions. Thank you for doing that thing with me last night and for talking with me. Thank you for being honest about everything. You answered so many questions that I had been hiding inside that just wouldn’t go away, questions that I couldn’t ask in the right way. I feel like we have just been given a real opportunity to mold and shape our futures and as long as we’re always honest with each other that shouldn’t change.

I’m sorry that I have been such a challenge and that it felt like you had to change who you were to be with me. I’m sorry for the pain that caused you. I’m sorry for what has happened in your life that caused most of the stuff you mentioned last night and I regret not being able to be there for you when it happened because I am sure that I could have given you so much emotional and spiritual support that things could have been much different. I was not and they were not and now we live with an understanding I think of each other’s feelings, each other’s pasts, and I honestly believe now that we have nothing to fear.

I love you and I have been waiting to feel like this again. I know that it has been hard to be honest with me, I know that it’s hard being with me, but I feel like you now know that you can be honest with me no matter what, the reward for honesty is compassion and care, trust me.

You are beautiful, you’re a beautiful person, the things that you have been through may have sent you wayward down a destructive path but I assure you that you are in no way a bad person, your untrustworthiness is only your failure to trust yourself, I’m here though to help you and when you are faced with a situation that you don’t know the answer, you don’t know the right thing to do, I’m here for you to pick you up. You do not cause bad things to happen, you have been faced with so many challenges and so much pain in your young life.

Last night the weight of the world was lifted off of my shoulders, my mind was put to ease, and my spirits were lifted. In your answers I found the truth, in your tears I saw my flaws. I’m sorry for the pedestal that I tend to put you on and for the expectations that I myself have made for our marriage. I didn’t realize the responsibilities I had to your emotions, I thought as long as I treated you right, paid attention when you talked, and always said I love you that things would be on auto pilot. I’m sorry every thing rolled down hill while I was gone and ended up the way that it did, but now I hope that we can decide the fait of our marriage by deciding what our marriage is. I don’t want to lose you, and don’t want you to hurt anymore.

Our family is not my family or your family, our family is not the traditional American family, it’s our family, it’s our rules, it’s our decisions, and we may hit hard times again in the future, we may not always see eye to eye, but I’m going to tell you this, we will make it.

I’m looking forward to church, I’m looking forward to witnessing, I’m looking forward to loving, I’m looking forward to our future. I pray for you and I’m thankful for you.

I pray that God will continue to watch over you and cover you with a blanket of His love, that He will guide you when you stray, that He will keep you honest. I pray that He will heal your wounds, patch your heart, and let your eyes only shed tears of joy. I pray that He will bless our marriage, bless our friendship, and renew our faith in Him, the Son, and His Holy Spirit so that we may know there are no problems too big, no mistakes too awful, and no words too shameful with His forgiveness, our forgiveness for each other, and our forgiveness for ourselves.

I pray that God will give us the strength to always talk and work our way through our problems, that He will give us strength to live morally right, the He will bless us with His love, His gifts, and His presence from this day forth.

I pray that you will see that in me, there is nothing perfect, there is nothing great, there is only a man that loves you, a man that draws his strength from you. I pray that you will feel my love in each and everything that we do.

I pray that you will forgive me for all of the times I have let you down, that you will forgive me for the times I didn’t trust, for the insecurities that I have had, and for the fears that I pushed into our reality.

Lord, keep us safe, keep us happy, and keep us in love. Amen.

I love you more than I ever have today and I feel like our lives together have just begun. You have made me so happy and I’m so thankful that you chose me after everything that you have been through. I love you.

Have a good day baby and if you go to sleep, dream peacefully and know that each day is another day to earn our blessings.

Joseph

To me, I've never spoke anything more from the heart.

God is blessing us now and to feel His strength is, well I can't come up with the words.

God is very, very good at what he does. I believe I know what you mean.

I am thankful that things are looking up for both of you. It sounds much better already.

I warn you that some of the feelings of doubt, and pain WILL return from time to time. You have to catch the darkness that comes with that, and turn it to light. You have to act like things are better than they are - until the light returns. It will be very difficult at times. I want you to know in advance so you can mentally prepare.

Your letter to her is a beautiful thing. It tells me much about your chances - and I think they are good.

This is a long term thing. As the things you learn (meeting needs, avoiding LB's) become habbits, it will get easier. I have been married 27 years (ah, at least in two weeks it will be 27) and our feelings of love have never been stronger. I thought I was in love when I got married, but it is far better now than it was then. Communication is better, feelings are stonger, and even (blush, you know) is much beter. I never thought things could be THIS good. It is one of the few times in my life when the actual result is much better than the anticipation.

I wish this for you also. Let us know how things go. I read some of your last post to my W when she came by a few minutes ago, and she says she "hopes things continue to get better and better for you."

God be with you.

SS

[ February 27, 2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]