Star*fish has a lot of good points! Especially plan A. thing!

I am so glad to read that you are opening up to your husband with a geniune anniversary card! YEAHHHH! I know there is hope for you two!

Going to sound corney but how did you feel? Do you like opening up to your husband now? I know that is might feel a little strange. When I feel that I can be strong, I go back to the days when my husband I am just met. The feelings are overwhelming. Majority of the time when we hold each other and I become a pocupine, I close my eyes and just remember what it was that that made me fall in love with him. And I try desperately to hang on to that feeling.

OK nuff of my psycho babble!

I am proud of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ali

Had some more time to think about what you all have said. We had a talk today, which left me rather drained. We talked very bluntly about the relationship; about the beginnings of it, about the fact that sadly, we never really may have been "in love" when we got married (we had a really rocky relationship prior to getting married, for many of the same reasons that we do right now...history repeats itself), but yet we were able to support each other through our education. We both agreed that things really started to fall apart after the birth of our first child, and completely disintegrated when we had the second child. He talked about his feelings for OW, and I DIDN"T DO ANY LOVE BUSTERS! I LISTENED! (sorry for the caps; I was pretty impressed with myself. :-) ). He finally did admit that what was happening now was destructive to all parties involved...but, he is still not willing to give up contact. And I said exactly (or close) to what you all have said : You must understand that there are consequences and ramifications for the actions you choose. I want to work on us, but under those circumstances, I will continue to seek insight and knowledge about myself, and it will be difficult for us to progress from where we are right now."

Some of you have asked some questions about OW, and this is what I know: I have met her (she has come over to our house twice.....whew), she is single, is very lonely and disillusioned with her job and life here (we live in the South)...I actually told my husband that she had feelings for him, which he brushed off (hmmm...the irony of it all). But looking past my anger at her, I think she may be the one in the truly horrid position; I will always have my children, and she might have WH now, but his feelings for his children will always complicate his interactions with her. I'm actually more angry at WH for taking advantage of a lost soul (now, don't misunderstand; I'm certainly not justifying her actions, but I think she is as lost as we are).

I do have another question for you all, and I may post this separately. It's a question of finances....my husband earns much more than I do (i'm a professor at a community college), and even though he keeps saying he won't leave me (because of kids), I am thinking that I may need to develop some independence in this area. Right now all of our assets are combined--bank account, credit cards etc. What are your thoughts on this?

Ali--thanks for your encouragement. I honestly don't feel too hopeful right now, but I will continue, and maybe you can keep the hope for me! You asked me how I felt about opening up--I feel crappy and empowered at the same time! Weird answer, I know--it does feel good to finally let these feelings out, and know that I can be strong like this. Although I do feel like a 'porcupine" (love that!) too--

Cee

Your story sounds so familiar, even down to the A pre-marriage. BTW, the A turned physical a week after d-day, so be very vigilant!

Plan A was designed precisely for the WS who doesn't want to end contact. If you feel like a doormat, you are doing it right. Plan A is about going against every instinct in your body.

Your WS is confused. That is very good! He is waffling. He's not sure what to do. He does not want to leave you!

I recommend signing up for Retrouvaille. We went when the A was still ongoing, but it helped reestablish our emotional connection. The A didn't end for another 2 1/2 months, but it made FWS think that our M could be better.

You will *have* to stop LB'ing! That is imperative. WS has to be convinced that you can change. You have to do it for your M.

I just want to say that your WS is trying rewrite history. There is a reason you married and it's because you loved each other. What you two have been through together is real love. Maybe it wasn't perfect and you guys could work on improving it, but you have the foundation of making your M even better than you imagined.

We questioned our connection, if we ever even had one, etc., but I Plan A'd like you wouldn't believe. The A ended and we've discovered soulmates in each other.

Hang in there. It's not gonna be easy, but you definitely are on the road to recovery.

Remember you have the advantage here. You are married and you are the mother of his children. You may not want him to stay because of the kids, but we have to use anything we can to end the A.

What kept me going? I admit I faltered, but I kept trying. I guess knowing that this has worked in other Ms. I just had faith that we could recover as well.

You have the right idea. Keep coming back to this site. Keep posting. You will find encouragement and hope here. I noticed that I would really mess up when I hadn't been here for awhile. The people here kept me on the right path.

Your WS is looking for a friend. Be that friend to him!

Just when I think I can handle it, it gets worse again. He is waffling--half the time he says he will make the decision to stay and in the next breath, he talks about going forward with this relationship to see if this is really the one he has been looking for his whole life. There were no LB on my part again; I did listen. Then he said that he would still want to be friends with me if and when he went off with OW. Ok, deep breath on my part and then I said, " I hear what you are saying. I hear your need for space and the conflict you are feeling now. However, under those circumstances I would work with you to make sure our children suffer as little as possible--but I could not be your friend." I don't know if that is the right thing to say, but it is the truth; he needs to know that he cannot have everything here.

So basically I'm in limbo. I don't know the time span for this decision, and he has said enough contradictory information that I am not sure what he will do. I can only continue with what I have started here with you all. I'm just praying that he makes the right decision--for all of us. What really is breaking my heart are my kids; my daughter is so attached to her father, and tonight (H went off to talk with a mutual friend--not the OW!) she told me" Mommy, you are always here with me". I will always be with her and her brother, and that is the only thing that gets me through these days.

To think that 17 years of being together (8 years of marriage) could be supplanted by a person he has met for 2 weeks.....how fragile love is.

Hello there!

Boy does your Hubby seems to be in that fog. Oh life is sooo sweet and sooooo wonderful with the OW. He doesn't get it! No responsibilities at all. He seems to think his life will be so much better. HA! We'll see! It was suggested that I go on the recovery side and read shadows or something like that. Gee I forgot the threads name too. But on one post of the thread, she wrote about how she is now acting like the other woman and have the same responsibilities as she does.(nothing) It is kinda comical. Put a huge smile in my face!
Great job by the way for keeping your comments to yourself. That must have been very difficult. I have many holes in my tongue! Keep it up!

What does he mean he wasn't sure if you both were in love with each other when you took your vows??
Because that is a typical response from a person who is trying to justify their guilt. "Well, maybe we weren't really in love." Or "I married you for the wrong reason's." Very common. Do you know for a fact if that is what you were feeling?

I think right now is way to soon to discuss divorce. That is just my opinion. Right now there is so much going on. If you divorce now, you will have unfinished business. You cannot leave a marriage when it this volatile. I am taking that advice from my therapist and passing it on to you. I believe I also read it somewhere too! But I know it came from two sources. I know the first thing I wanted to do when I found out of his PA was throw him to the curb. Then my fog set in and I desperately seeked his attention and his approval. Then, well, I am now where I am now. But if I divorced, I would have been so bitter and extremely resentful and most likly him too!

Have you talked about MC? I highly suggest it. If your feelings are about divorce right now, I would highly recommend it.

If I were you? I would open up a savings account and put away as much as you can each pay period. You should have a nest egg period! Regardless. Do you have your own credit card without his name on the account? Even if your marriage is perfect you need to establish your own credit.

Patience! Again, the world seems to be so perfect with the OW in it! But ask yourself this; "What would his world be like if he were to marry her and she would now then take on marriage responsibilities"? It wouldn't seem so romantic to him would it? Humm, kinda like where he is now with you? Does he have a physical relationship with her? Something doesn't make sense to me! Some men, not all, would want to test the "waters" before jumping in. I would look deeper into that if I were you! Not impling anything but something to think about.

Keep doing Plan A. if you want it to work out! It gets so frustating and sometimes you feel you are just staginet. But instead you are finding more and more about yourself and your needs too! Remember, flowers don't grow in one night. It takes time to see results! Who knows this might blossom into something more beautiful. I just have this positive feeling with you.

Don't give up! It is to soon to tell. I wish I could say something to you that will make you feel better. But I am stuck myself! I had a big set back and I am stuck. Again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Good luck and keep posting!

Ali

cc:

A couple of good links on counseling:
how to identify a good counselor: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.html
why it is so important:
http://www.smartmarriages.com/hazardous.html

Beyond that - try not to react to every change in him. He is confused, as is evident from his behavior. Don't let him confuse YOU. Do what YOU want to do. Plan ahead, and execute your plan.

Order Surviving An Affair ASAP! It will outline exactly what your WS is going through. That was another thing that helped me. FWS didn't know which end was up, but I knew exactly what he was thinking.

I'm not gonna lie. It will look very bleak for awhile, but keep doing Plan A. You think it's not working, but it's laying the foundation for recovery. And believe me, WS is watching you, taking it all in.

Only 2 weeks? Oh my! Of course, she's the love of his life. She hasn't even had time to LB. But don't worry, she will.

Have you tried finding an MC? What about IC? You will need lots of support. Have you told anyone about the A?

Wow--lots to think about from you all. To Ali--I don't think we are really talking about divorce (or maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, who knows)--it may be good that he is telling me these feelings instead of withholding them and going to her. I have to tell you though that we have been troubled for a long time, and I think both of us, instead of dealing with the trouble, developed some sort of fantasy image of what the "perfect" spouse would be--and we weren't that for each other. And now I guess his fantasy became very real. You're right; this is a situation devoid of any responsibility, any children--and he realizes this but his conflict is whether or not he will ever find that "spark" with me, and is it worth giving up this chance, even with everything he could lose.

I'm trying hard not to react to every waffling (and you all see how well I'm doing with that! not so good, right?) and it is tough not to fall back on anger and hurt as the response. When I feel that way, I come here to write to all of you. He knows I am writing here, although his first comment was " Is this some site where you all bash the spouse who wandered?" Sometimes I think he still doesn't get it.....it;'s anything BUT spouse-bashing.

I am going to set up a separate set of finances, and I have told him why. Strangely, this seems to hurt him the most--he keeps saying " You're overreacting, I'm not going to leave you" --which of course is followed by fog-talk ( I like this phrase!).

I'm in a bit of a fog too....we have told some people about this; there is a colleague of mine at work who knows and is being wonderful (she is much older than me --I'm 36--and has been through a divorce, so there is empathy here). We have told a mutual friend, who is terribly torn, and I feel somewhat guilty talking to him. However, he is the one H talked to last night, and H himself said our mutual friend was trying to steer H towards the "right decision" (my H's words, not mine--I guess a good sign).

Neither one of us have told our parents; my parents had an arranged marriage (I'm Indian by ethnicity, my husband is Anglo) and marriage to them is duty--they would never understand this. Perhaps this is the source of some of my confusion about what needs to happen in a marriage....And his parents, sadly, went through something like this themselves a long time ago, and view us as " the model family".

I hear what you all are saying, and I know the pain is so terribly fresh, but I must wait and give it time. As a genuine bona fide control freak, this is rather hard. Ali--I'm so sorry to hear there has been a setback. I don't exactly know your story, but it seems that you have been in limbo far longer than I have. How in the world do you cope?

I look forward to hearing from all of you---I'm still so amazed and grateful I found this place; to think that "strangers" would care so much brings me to tears.

Ali--You asked if there was a physical relationship....you know, it seems a bit strange to me too, because the more we talk, the more attached he seems to her. At the beginning, it was " we just are friends" and now it's more like "she might be the love of my life". He keeps insisting that this is strictly EA, and all I can do is calmly (?) remind him that I need to know how far this has gone.

Do I suspect more? You bet I do, particularly given my history with physical intimacy. But even if it did happen, would I change my approach now? I mean, I would still be doing Plan A....right?

So confused....

cc,

Yeah, this place is pretty amazing. When I found out about my H's infidelity I was in the middle of a move to a foreign country. This site became my life line to my language, country....and I've made lasting friendships here. I'm not sure how I would have coped without it.

Plan A is the right place to be whether it's an EA or turned physical. And yes, in your shoes I'd be pretty suspicious too about how far things have gone. All the others are right....most of what your H is saying right now sounds like fogbabble. Until the affair ends, and your husband has some time to get through withdrawal....it will be impossible for him to truly remember how much he has loved you. Most of us have been where you are and know how devastating many of those words can be...but try your best not to take the babble to heart.

Thinking of you!!!!

Hi There!

I am glad about the divorce situation. I am glad to read that wasn't an option yet.

It definitely sounds like he worried. Women need to get a nest egg. Just for security reasons and learning how to survive without our H. support. I am not working unfortunately. I love staying home with my kids but we need the income so bad. The problem is that child care would take over my pay check. So it wouldn't be feasable for me to work. There goes all my annuals and I guess I will have a bare yard this year well, except for my periannals! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But what if something were to happen to my H? I would have really nothing to survive on. I have established a great credit rating. But The nest egg that I had saved up many years ago diminished when he quit his job. It is not about what if we get a divorce, it is planning about the unknown.

How do I cope? Good question. Journaling helps. Reading when I find the time. Write now the kids are playing in here so I am able to come on line for a few. I am in therapy, that helps. But as someone mentioned it is called survival. And that is what I have to do for my kids. I need to be a good Mommy to them. It is their needs that make me go forward through out the day. But they can definitely sense something is not right in the house hold. I was on medication, but we can't afford our Cobra anymore. My husbands insurance doesn't kick in until December. I have a few samples for one more month but after that? Deep breaths I guess.
So your Husband is Anglo? Now how did you have an arranged marriage with an Anglo? I always wondered how two people can live together and preform the expected marriage duties and not be in love. That has got to be soo difficult. But from what I understand from your post you two did like each other a lot.
I know your H. is a doctor. Does he still work strange hours our is it a 8-5 thing? My H. and I do a lot of things that we enjoy. We are planning out our summer with a wish list that we like to do together. We love going to the Gardens here, bike riding, etc. So we are going to find the time and $$$ to enjoy the things that we like to do together. It helps bring the spark back. But as you know, I sometimes numb up! But those are my own issues. I know you have two very small kids. But try to find some down time for the both of you and start off small.

Let me know if that sounds like a plan??

Ali

Hi Ali--Wow. I still don't know how you do it! Yes, I think developing a nest egg needs to be done; I actually suggested this at the beginning of our marriage, not because I thought he would have an affair, but just for the principal of it. He talked me out of it....grrr....nowI have more backbone. I was thinking of giving up my job to stay with the kids, but that is not an option anymore.

Our marriage was NOT arranged--but my parent's marriage was (they are from India; I was born in the States). We dated for quite a while before getting married. And here we are now...

Sorry, I'm wallowing in self-pity right now. I alternate between being very weepy and afraid and really really mad (like I am right now; good thing H is not here!). This morning, he gives a me a kiss good-bye; I call him at lunch to see how a presentation went earlier, and he was very enthusiastic about that...and then he closed down."gotta go. bye." Give me patience, please!!! Let me ride this roller coaster without throwing up all over him!!!

Ahh...got that off my chest. Back to plan A!

Take care to all.--CC

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Warning to all--I'm really angry tonight, and I know that this would be nothing but destructive to what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm writing this to vent, and I hate wasting your time with this, but if I don't get this out of my system here, then it will come out in all the wrong places! (you are free to stop reading here! :-))

H called to tell me he was on his way home, and then awkwardly said, " I'm going to be late tomorrow". Read: meeting OW. I asked him if he had reached any conclusions, and he said no. I didn't say anything, and he asked me what I was thinking. (It's a good thing I counted to ten before answering that question) As calmly as I could, I said, " you know my position on this; the longer you stay in contact with her, the harder (if not impossible) it will be to work on us." He asked me if I was giving him an ultimatum--yeah, he was trying to pick a fight, to make me send him her way, and I didn't bite. I just told him that there was no more to say on that topic because he already knew where I stood, and that if he did want to talk about it, we could do so after the kids went to sleep.
(Just by the way, what did he expect me to say? Sure go ahead and have a jolly time?? I should bite off my tongue!!)

BUT, I have got to say that at times like this, the impulse is so great to say "Go, Just Go!" His actions are jeopardizing his future relationship with his children, his family, his workplace--and last on the list, of course, is me. And his total lack of responsibility is driving me nuts--who the hell is taking care of his kids while he is trying to figure out where he is??? ME.

And then I remember that I played a big role in bringing him to this state.

Just before I came down, I went in to say goodnight to my little 3.5 year old girl, who smiled at me and said "Goodnight Mommy--Happy Mother's Day!" I told her that it wasn't Mother's day today, and she laughed and said " What do you mean--you're my mommy, right?" and kissed me on my hand. Oh God, I almost lost it in front of her, and H, who is putting her to bed, just looked at me.

I have to try for this beautiful little girl and her beautiful brother, and get beyond my own selfish pains and hurts. I'm sorry to post so often; I have to get this anger out of my system before I talk to him every day. I have always just shoved the anger somewhere inside and never dealt with it, and so I'm afraid you all must hear it all come out. I'm really sorry. Even writing this down here has helped clear my brain of part of the fog that I am in.... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I am glad you are posting and not taking it out on your H. Good for you. I want to comment on this but kids want to go to bed! Yep they WANT to go to bed!
Ali

I just don't know....again we talked, which I realize is good, and we went through a lot of painful history which has to happen if we are to have any chance of making this work again. I learned a lot tonight; about his loneliness and feeling shut out of my life, which ironically, is how I felt --loneliness and being shut out of his life. For the first time we talked about the first affair, and I'm glad I got his perspective. But I also saw something that I probably knew all along but didn't want to admit---he refuses to carry the responsibility of the ramifications of the affair --both the old and the current. He told me that my reaction to the first affair--which was shock , disbelief, and yes, emotionally pulling away--was unfair, that what I should have done is reached out to him and said " I'm so sorry you have been suffering". Clearly, there is an emotional need here, no doubt, but how can you say those things when the trust has been so badly shaken?

He has a real issue with believing that I can change; and I actually am sympathetic to it given how long I have been in such a emotional strait-jacket. He would rather hold onto the many hurts that I have inflicted on him over the past years, and I think I understand that letting go of that means a giant leap of faith for him--one which sadly he may never be able to do.

And now, this: he says he has the right (his words, not mine) to see what type of relationship he can develop with the OW. I asked him if this was limited to an emotional/friendship relationship, or could it include a physical one. He told me that he could not rule out the physical relationship. I then held firm that I respected his feelings but that this would lead us away from rebuilding, and that would be damaging for us and our children. Then he got mad and told me I was being manipulative for bringing out children into it.

Can I rebuild a relationship with this man? I told him that we both contributed to the place where we were at (he agreed) and that we can't come out of it until we can work together--and that means no third parties involved. (he didn' t agree). And even here he waffled: I told him that frankly I was demoralized, and he came back with " why don't you view this as our trying to work things out?" Huh??

Sometimes i think this is just an exercise for him, because he is too wishy-washy to come out and tell me that he has already made his decision to be with OW; that he has to let me down gently by stringing me along with false hope. And even better, if he can make me mad, then there is no guilt for him, since I am the one who pushed him there. He told me that he has no regrets about the first affair, that it was a growing period for him. Why am I trying to hold on to a man who, after all these years, says he has no regrets about dissolving trust in a relationship?

He is going out with her tomorrow night.....I'm not giving up, although honestly it's getting harder and harder (and you all said it would!). I think I am getting stronger though. You know, through all of this, I did maintain plan A, although I almost slipped once--and boy did he pounce! It was like he was waiting for a chance to say " well here she goes again, and therefore I'm right about this, and therefore I'll continue without guilt or a sense of responsibility".

I'm actually feeling DISAPPOINTED in him as opposed to the anger I felt all day. You know, all this time it has been " please please come back, I need you". Now I feel more like " I think you need to grow up, and I hope you can do that in the context of a relationship with me". I know I don't want to go back to the person that I was, and maybe the new me ..... can't take him as the person he was/is either.

Okay....well he's in DEEP fogland so don't expect him to make sense. He has to justify doing something that is so wrong that he'll have to do a lot of moral juggling in order to do it.

So....keep control of the lovebusting (you're doing great BTW), fill the needs he will allow you to....and start thinking about exposure. Since the OW is single, and you seem to have some sympathy for her situation....perhaps a conversation with her might be helpful. She may need your husband, but you can certainly make a good argument that your children need their father and you need your husband a whole lot more. Tell her how much you love your husband and that you have no intention of giving up your marriage. Ask her to consider going to NC and doing the "right" thing. Do lay on the guilt. Ask her if her parents are aware of the fact that she is dating a married man? If they met at work...consider telling the boss. Expose the affair to anyone else you believe is a friend to your marriage and may be able to have a positive influence on your husband (parents, friends, family). Is this a scary step?....you bet it is. Will your H be furious at first? Most definitely...but the longer you wait, the more entrenched this affair will become....don't let your fear of his reaction prevent you from using one of the most powerful tools you have in your arsenal to save your marriage.

<small>[ May 13, 2004, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

I hear what you are saying, Star*fish, and yes, I'm really scared of that. There are also some complicating issues with revealing this; H is a physician (surgeon) who met OW as his patient. Obviously, in addition to everything else, this has implications for his profession, and as much anger as I'm feeling for him, I really don't want to dismantle everything that he has worked for. ( some of you may think I should be more punitive, but I cannot do this...although he did it, not me! Sorry, random rambling there)

Some people do know, although our families do not. In my heart I know the time is coming where I will tell them, not just to reveal the affair but to have them understand where we are (or more aptly, are NOT). This morning he told me, with great bitterness, that he would "probably" tell OW that nothing more can come from this. And I held the line; that if he cannot break the contact, that as much as I loved him, he could not play both roles at the same time and that I would have to put physical distance--and yes, I would take the kids.

We'll see...I suspect tonight may be one of the worst nights of my life...just will have to keep busy with the kids while H decides everyone's future. Actually, I wrote that and it's not true--I am, for the first time, deciding my future.

It's the same script as everyone else, right?

It's funny--I was educated at a very elite institution and I completed 10 years of graduate work in my field( I have a BS and PhD--"piled higher and deeper" :-) )--and yet I never learned how to live and grow. I wanted to please everyone, to get the proverbial "pat on the head". I never took the time to figure out what's going on with ME, and thus lost track of everyone around me, namely H. I lost him in the fog of trying to be everything for everyone, and in the process ended up being nothing for no one.

There is a fear in him--he keeps asking me : IF you are committed to growth, how do you know that I'm the one who will make your life meaningful. The answer is that I don't. I think it would be easier, and I told him this, if I did say "You're right, we were not meant for each other, so let's just stop the pain and move our separate ways". But there's more to us that just that....and truthfully, I do have doubts, that I'm going back to a man who fundamentally does not know who I am (Although to be fair, I haven't really known who I am for a long long time), and that I will never know the love, safety, and trust that I am longing for in a relationship. It's a crap shoot for me too.

Did you order SAA?

All I have to say is hang on! One of your most powerful weapons is your children. The moment FWS decided to end the A was when he heard our daughter crying in the middle of the night. She was only 17 months old and certainly didn't understand her daddy might be leaving, but I'm sure she was responding to the stress in the house. FWS sensed this, too, and decided at that moment to stay.

FWS didn't see anything wrong with the As, technically, either. He knew I was hurt and why, but he felt his behavior was justified. However, 3 months after d-day, he finally felt true remorse. Your WS is in the fog. He will not accept true responsibility for awhile, yet. Try not to dwell too much on this.

Gosh, are we living parallel lives? Everything you're writing is what happened with us. Yes, he doesn't believe you can change, but you're showing him. He's gonna have to learn to trust you. Just like you're gonna have to learn to trust that he won't ever stray again. It's just part of the rebuilding.

As to his right to explore the A, tell him he gave up that right he took his vows. Yeah, we all have the right to do whatever we want, but you are trying to save him from making a big mistake. You are trying to offer him the chance to make your M what you both want.

I recommend an exercise: write out what you consider your ideal relationship. Share it with your WS and tell him that is what you are striving for.

If talking about your children is an LB, then don't mention them again. Your WS knows all about them. They are uppermost in his mind. Don't worry. He is not forgetting your children.

Oh my word. My FWS said the same thing about working on the M while he was in the middle of an A. I just kept reiterating that nothing could be accomplished between us while there was a third person involved.

You are sounding so much like me 7-8 months ago. I was so convinced that FWS had decided to leave and was only waffling because he couldn't bear to leave the comforts of home.

Don't believe it! He loves you! He is torn! He wants to stay! Give him that reason to stay. If he wanted to leave, he would already be gone. There is a reason he is still with you. He wants your M to work. Show him that you want the same thing.

Recovery is not just about your M. Recovery will be about you and WS as individuals. You're right. You are different and so is he. You can create an even better M now.

Oh my! My FWS did a stupid thing, too. The OW was his employee. They could have both been fired. That is one thing that I didn't follow in regards to Plan A. I did not expose the A. Not sure if that helped or not, but his reputation would have been ruined at work and I know my family would never be able to forgive him.

Don't let yourself have a pity party. Look at yourself. You are a well-educated woman and a wonderful mother and now you are strong enough to fight for your M. Your WS will wake up and see this. You are honest and compassionate. You care about others and don't have a hidden agenda in dealing with people.

He will remember why he fell in love with you and discover the OW cannot hold a candle to you. ((hugs))

Dear lbc--thank you for the kind thoughts....and it's encouraging to hear your story (although I'm so appalled it's so similar to mine! No one should have to go through this....twice!). It's funny; I thought I would be an emotional wreck tonight during their "meeting" (maybe I will be later tonight), but I'm not. Probably because I'm writing to you all.

I have a dear colleague who I have confided my story...she is 64 and went through the same scenario when she was my age (36). It's interesting--I told her about this web site, and she mentioned that she had been so isolated when this happened...her husband left her for OW, OW dumped him, and he tried to come back--unsuccessfully, because she had had enough. Don't worry--she's not encouraging me to leave; far from it, she is actually reiterating many of the things you have said here.

I have to admit, I'm depressed when I look at the time posts people put in their signatures and the affairs last months, if not years after D-day. And then they happen AGAIN. It's sobering to think that this is how we value the committment made in the context of marriage.

Lbc, the kids definitely matter to him. It may be the only thing right now that keeps him (maybe? maybe not?) from going to OW. However, I'm not going to mention it again because he perceives this as LB--that I'm using the threat of taking the kids with me as leverage for my case. I wish he could see how unhealthy it would be for the kids to STAY in that kind of environment. And maybe he will.

I waffle too; sometimes I have doubts about the love I feel for him. I wonder why I love someone who cannot and will not try to see me....you know, that is probably what he feels right now. If this place has taught me ANYTHING, it has taught me to think about his needs, even in the context of my own hurt and sorrow.

Random thoughts (so I don't think of THEM tonight!) Gotta run; baby boy wailing for his bottle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well.....apparently H and OW talked about NC, although they don't really seem ready to do it. H told me that he knows that what we have --the kids-- is worth staying for, although he would not let me near him tonight.

I told him that this process I started (with you all!) cannot stop, and he told me while he is happy about that, he doesn't really think he will ever be able to love me that way again--that he never really did. I'm really numb right now--all i could say was that when he was ready, I would be there.

And now I'm left with some very ambivalent feelings....in some ways I know that I started moving forward while he was moving backwards.....so I can't really expect anything from him. It's a bittersweet feeling I have right now; I still don't know if he can cut off contact with her, but he's so down that I suspect they (she?) must have talked about it.

He finally did say that we both shared responsibility for the situation we have now. I have been waiting 17 years for him to acknowledge this. I guess that's a start.

I may start posting the recovery section....it might be premature to do this, but I think the threads there fit my situation more (people in various stages of plan A and plan B). PLease look for me over there, and I will do the same.

I wish you all lived closer to me.....email is great, but I'm so lonely and it would be so nice to see you all face to face! I'm in the Dallas-Fort Worth area; are there any chapters in my neck of the woods? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />