Wow!

I believe it was not you. There is obvioulsy an issue with him if he went to another man for the physicalness. HE IS TRYING TO EASE HIS OWN GUILT BY BLAMING YOU! Don't believe it. He is confused and probably feels ashamed as well.
You are going to need some outside help other than this site. Please come on here and post but you need to get help. This is a huge blow and in my opinion there is more that he is not telling you. You are going to need the extra support since you friends are now scarce.
Are you still teaching? Will you be teaching summer school? Can you take some time off and gather your thoughts together?
By you plan Aing him, he might be feeling really guilty. As hard as this is focus on something to keep you busy. IS your Mother still in??

I will be thinking of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Ali

I hear you...I just talked to a friend (she has known me since high school but we had fallen out of touch) and she has said everything that you did. I don't know if I can post for a while....too many conflicting thoughts.

We have two children to whom we are both responsible to. For me right now, that is the bottom line.

Thanks for your thoughts and support.

I am so very sorry! Honey, we do not believe this has anything to do with you. He made the decision to be with somone else. He is just trying to justify his behavior, because he knows it's wrong.

We do have to take responsibility for our part, but the other person is responsible, too. Why is he ending all these As? Does he want to stay with you?

The OW knows about the other man? Is that why she is ending the A?

If you decide that you want to stay with him, you will need to go to IC and both of you will have to start MC.

I know you can't see anything good in this, but I believe your WS wants to come clean because if you are to rebuild your M, he wants to know that you could forgive *everything*.

My FWS did the same thing. Near the end of his A, he told me about the A before we were married. I knew he had an inappropriate friendship with a co-worker, but I had no idea that they slept together. It was heartbreaking!
But now I believe this was a step FWS was taking on the road to recovery. He wanted to be truthful about everything.

You need a lot of support right now. Please call someone.

~~~~~~~~~~~ BUMP ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi, everyone...sorry, it's been difficult for me to write lately. I'll try to answer some of the questions you all have asked...lbc, the OW does know about this other A, and I think would still want to be with WH, so no, I don't think she is ending it because of that. In fact, I'm not so sure she is ending it....I have to be realistic about this, because WH is not ready to end it UNLESS SHE TELLS HIM TO. And I can't imagine that she would.

WH is very very mad at me right now, because I had to tell my mom something; otherwise I would be lying to her as well, and I think it's about time that the lies STOPPED. All I told her was that something was wrong (he is canceling a trip this weekend, and I would have had to tell her SOMETHING to explain why he didn't go), and that she may not want to be around us now. Of course, being my mother <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> she didn't quite buy this, and is INSISTING she stay to help out--if nothing than to take the kids out so we can talk. It feels good to be honest, even in this limited way. WH of course is now worried about what my mom thinks...but he was the one who told me that maybe I should say something like this to her instead of lying to her. When I asked him about that, his response was --I didn't expect you to tell her TODAY. When was I going to tell her??? He is supposed to leave TOMORROW!

I don't expect him to suddenly look around and fall in love with me again. Honestly, I'm not sure we can. It's a convenient place for him to be right now--holding on to the anger he has at me for justification of every thing he has done. He asked me something very strange this morning--that if he commits to stay, how will he know that I won't go off and leave him. Wow. When did I lose the right to make decisions? I'm still stumped on that one...I told him that if I make a commitment, I would honor it; I'm not interested in being punitive--I'm interested in making us work. He just shrugged.

I don't think I said anything disrespectful to him, although he is absolutely furious with me, and I guess that's probably not a good sign given that he is going to meet with OW tonight. Strangely enough, I see these as positive signs that I can come out of my emotional lock-down and start dealing with the mess of my life.

Thanks for listening.

Well, just a follow-up...I did call him and told him that I realized how much pain he was in, and that he needs the time to deal with his pain. He seemed to respond, although that was followed by his anger that I would consider the continuing A (the first one) as a breach of trust, and that I had no right to even view in that way when he felt that I pushed him in that direction.

I'm learning. I didn't respond immediately, but took a big deep breath and told him that clearly this continuing A had brought him misery, and that I would like to talk more about it when he felt he could.

We'll see...it's a bit tough to be the punching bag, but given everything, I had better accept that if I want anything to change.

My heart is just breaking for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Hang in there, you are doing so well. Really. Most people would have fallen apart by now. I'm glad you told your mom something. It must be some relief and I'm glad she insisted on staying. Don't worry about WS' being mad. You are taking care of yourself right now. He will get over it when he comes out of the fog. Why was the trip cancelled?

Have you looked for a counselor? Does your job have an EAP program? Please call them.

Don't worry about the love feelings returning quite yet. We have to get the As to end first. And you are actually doing a wonderful Plan A.

My FWS did not ask about me leaving him, but he was concerned that I would never be able to forgive him. He was afraid of always having the A thrown in his face. We can't convince anyone of our intentions before we actually act on them. He will be convinced slowly. When he looks up and you are still there, beside him, fighting for your M.

Can you get to MC? Now that your mom is here, try to get a couple of sessions in.

You're right. Both of you being angry is a good sign. The feelings are coming out. You both will need to heal from this.

Calling him to acknowledge his pain is exactly what he needed to hear. It is so very hard, but you need to try to fulfill WS' needs right now. It will be awhile before he can start addressing yours. You should be so proud of yourself for not LB'ing. Let him vent. Practice validating his feelings.

So what will you do for yourself today? Can you take a bath tonight or stop for a coffee? It's time to figure out what you want out of your life and M. ((hugs))

I'm so scared....you know it may be that nothing changes after tonight, but I'm so scared he will come home and say it's over. Say that there is no hope for a second chance.....I just called him and told him that through all this, I was still on his side, and I think (hope?) he appreciated that. I also said that being on his side didn't change the way I felt, and he indicated he understood that too.

So very scared.

You are doing everything right. It may not feel like it, but you are. The thing is you will survive. Whether it's with him or not. But I believe he will realize what he has with you and will decide to try to rebuild. You cannot control him or what he does, you can only work on yourself.

We were down to FWS looking for an apartment with OW when he finally decided to return. It may look bad for awhile, but this is the best way to recovery.

Be kind to yourself tonight. I will be praying for you.

Well, no change--he is still in fog land. Told me that he wants to go towards a friendship but he was still going to see OW. Wouldn't answer my questions as to whether EA had turned PA (and I suppose there is my answer!). In his mind, I think I'm on trial; but he wants the safety net of OW. I pointed out that there was really no way for our relationship to really heal until no third party was involved, and he was equally adamant about wanting to stay in limbo (my words, not his).

It's weird, I'm actually not angry right now. I told him that this can't be a permanent state, that I would take steps to independence during this time--and then he tries to control how I set up my own finances! I told him I may start looking for another job, and that may mean out of state.

But I'm still doing plan A....and I will stick with this for about 3 months, and then decide what I need to do next. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to some personal growth.....he seems taken aback at my sense of purpose.

More later.

Would anyine object to CC confronting the OW?

CC, I think it is great that you told your Mom. You need to get the A. out in the open. It is great that you start your own financial back ground. I would as hard as it is, try to be patient right now! Tough I know, but when your in the fog(WS). All mean and evil things plus a lot of confusion comes out of it. He is confused and has no idea what he is doing at the time. Yes, he is using that OW as a net. He's a doctor right? I hope he is being professional durning this period!

Have you sat down with his and asked him if he can imagine what his life would be with you out of the picture and real time sets in? If you think about it CC, he had a realtionship with a OM and OW, it is not you. Unfortunately you are the one who is getting a raw deal because you are the one he comes home too. Now is the time for you to think about you and only you. You have to be the root for your beautiful children. You have to start weighing every option that is out there so you can have a plan.

OK, My two year old is begging for my attention.

Keep posting.

Ali

I'm so sorry. You're in for a tough fight. I had to Plan A for 4 1/2 months, but the last month I was asking FWS to leave. You have the right idea. Determine a deadline for Plan B, but don't tell him. Try to Plan A him as well as you can, but be aware, this is gonna be a very hard time for you. Again, you're on the right path -- concentrate on yourself.

Don't give up hope, though. For my FWS, EA became PA a week after d-day. It may seem bleak, but you can't see the future. You can't see that you are laying the foundation for recovery. When the rose-colored glasses come off, he will see the transformation that you are undergoing.

Do this for you. Do this for your children. You WILL recover, with or without him.

As for confronting OW, I didn't realize this was within the MB principles. I think it's a good idea to send an email or letter. If I saw her in person, I would have become enraged.

What is the OWs situation? Who is she? I think you said she is young and still lives at home (same with FWS' OW). What would her parents think about her being involved with a married man with young children? You might consider sending a letter to her parents. Do you have her name and number? I first got OWs number from the cell phone bills. I take care of the finances and FWS was not exactly trying to hide it.

Thanks for all the warm thoughts...it seems as if the situation changes hourly here! About the OW: she is single, but isn't living at home. I have real mixed feelings about the confrontation, because I'm not sure I could do it without flying off the handle, and I read somewhere (maybe one of starfish's posts?) that one must do this with finesse. I'm lacking pretty seriously in finesse right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Today WH called me and wanted to go to lunch. Of course I said yes, and we went and talked. He is all over the place; now he was saying he knows A has to end, that as much as he thinks he can escape, this is no escape, etc. He told me that he needs a lot of physical interaction--not necessarily sex--but hugging, kissing, etc. I told him that at this point, he is not ready to LET me do that, and that I was here when he was ready. Apparently he was a bit shook by the fact that OW was talking about bolting....and I wasn't. I also told him, while I was heartened to hear these things, that real change wasn't going to be possible for us in the current situation, and that I had to protect myself from another round of vacillation and hurt,

About the first A....he has cut it off completely--I saw the note (so I at least know he is capable of writing a NC letter!). This was pathologic and he knows it, and I am pleading with him to get counseling regardless of what happens to us.

As we were about to leave, he noticed that I had my hair cut today, and he said " You know, it looks really good." I replied. " I know" and smiled. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> When I dropped him off, he reached down, took my hand and kissed it. He also asked me if we could go to church together (I had told him that I wanted to go to my colleague's church on Sunday....I'm not particularly religious, but it seemed like a good idea for me).

I'm trying not to get my hopes up; it seems each time I do this I get crushed. I do hope he isn't just playing games with me, but I can't exclude that possibility right now. (And yes, I opened up my own bank account and credit card today! Symbolic steps, maybe, but a step nonetheless).

Let you know more as it happens! Take care to all of you wonderful people out there...

Frustrating not knowing what will happen next! Minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day. Even the next hour feels like a miles stone!

CC, you have got to keep in mind that when the WS is in a fog, it is a game. You have got to be in control and not let the games eat you. Fortunately, my H. is out of the fog so I can give you that advice with confidence.

Ali

Good for you! But you are right. It's not going to be easy for him or for you. Baby steps! Unfortunately, this is all part of the journey.

Yeah, I don't agree with confronting the OW. I was afraid of hearing something really hurtful, but I can see where it would be a good idea to send a note saying you are in love with your husband, you want to save your marriage, and she should do the right thing and step out of the picture. Sometimes they think that the M must be so horrible to force someone to resort to an A.

Very good sign that he wanted to have lunch. See how Plan A works. You do something a little nice and he does something nice and then you feel like doing something nice, etc. All part of ending the A and the love feelings returning.

My FWS also needs lots of affection. Are you sure he is not ready for that? What about a hug? Squeezing his arm? Holding his hand? You need to try to fulfill his ENs however way you can.

The A also took us back to Church. We've always wanted to return, but nothing really forces you to go, you know? But when FWS hit his low point (complete remorse), Church was the first place he wanted to be. We've been going ever since.

Congrats on doing so well. You really do have a wonderful attitude. The ride has not ended, yet, but it sounds like your seatbelt is nice and tight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, it was short lived. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Now he's back to the usual fog talk (or maybe what I heard was ALSO fog talk). I'm actually not upset, since I had been sort of prepared for this response....it will take time and baby steps.

And maybe it can't happen, and I would be ok even then. Sad, but ok.

Dear lbc--I do have my seat belt on, 'cause I know the ride is going to be BUMPY. It's hard not to react to the things he says, good and bad, fog or not, although I know that my position is very clear (and that's about the only comfort I have).

There is a very cynical part of me that looks at what he is doing and thinks : He's at home, not letting me near, and all he sees is the same old pattern--because he doesn't want to change it. He sees responsibilities, the day to day work that has to be done for our kids, the house, etc--because that's all he will let himself see since he pushes me away. Then he goes to OW, and sees goodness and light with no responsibilities and no baggage, and with her focus being 100% on him....why should he come home?

And yet, he knows things ARE changing in the home; I'm taking more responsibility for myself, my finances, my growth...and that doesn't really fit with the picture portrayed above. And then he waffles.

It's so hard to be on this timeline...but it's not a timeline for me to define. I just see him slipping away in his fog, and it's all I can do not to reach over and shake him HARD. But I don't....it's interesting, I don't have the desire anymore to LB. Isn't that strange? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Doing all those LB's hurt ME. I've had enough of that.

Nothing's really changed (I think)...he's at home with the kids now, probably moping around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just have to take it one day (one minute?) at a time.

It's time to start focusing on you. Who are you? Who were you before you got married? Who do you want to be? You also want to make sure you are being a good role model for your children. What do you want your children to learn during this time?

Unfortunately, the same work is gonna have to happen whether you stay together or not. If you break up, you will still need to deal with WS. You're gonna have to learn to be friends and make sure you can communicate. That will be very important.

But, remember, it's not over, yet. He is still at home. Why? Because you are doing such a good Plan A. He is starting to realize what he could lose if he left.

He is totally in the fog. A life without the everyday stresses and 3 kids would look good to anyone. Yeah, why should he come home? But he does. Because he has doubts about OW as well or he would be gone already.

What is his relationship history? Did he have alot of relationships before meeting you?

Yes, it does get to be about taking it one minute at a time, because it can change in the next minute. A rollercoaster indeed.

Is your mom still staying with you? Anything fun planned for the weekend?

Well, I'm quite afraid to put this in writing...to get my hopes up...I came back from work yesterday to find WH sitting at the computer. He just looked at me, took a big deep breath, and said " I've got to stop this. I can't continue doing this to our family." He had spent the morning with the kids, and apparently that had crystallized his decision (which he says he knew from the beginning....I don't know!).

So we talked. REALLY talked without the ever present fog...although I'm still not sure if I can trust this. He is going to meet with her tonight to break it off. OR so he says--yeah, I am still afraid to trust him, although I have to admit it does seem like a HUGE weight has been lifted from him. He says he's coming back for the "kids" and his main concern right now is not hurting his kids and not hurting the OW. I'm still really not in this picture--but that's ok, because this is our reality now> We have to work to put each other back into the picture.

He's letting me near him....it's been a LONG time. You know I thought I would be overjoyed--and I am for the kids. But for myself, I am TERRIFIED.

We'll see what happens tonight....we'll see if he can really do this when he sees her. He says he will....we'll just have to see. I have lurked around here enough to know that some NC are not that at all....and I have to tell myself that this may be a fake recovery....although I really do want to believe what he is saying.

Take care to all and have a peaceful weekend!

HI ccyier,

Can you ask him to meet her someplace in public? I think that helps alot, from what I've read here.

You are at a criticle time... do your best plan A right now!! You dont want to give him any excuses to reconsider. Leave the room if you feel you may say something hurtful.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! - Dru