This is horrible....I think he went over there last night thinking he could tell OW that he had made his decision and leave as friends...well apparently she let him have it. For five hours straight. I think it's over...I think she's gone....and yet all we're left with is anger (both of ours) and hurt.

He tells me to go away, to give him space. When I do this, he tells me I'm not supporting him. He tells me I can never change, and that I have no right to be angry (and I didn't do any LB, but it probably shows on my face).

He doesn't apparently think OW has any right to her anger either.....

I don't think this is over. I don't think he can let her go. I'm steeling for more of the same old fog. And holding on as best as I can to plan A.....

Is this recovery?????

I can only say "hang on" again. I know it's agonizing to go through, but this is all part of the healing that has to happen. You actually posted wonderful news.

WS wants to stay. Yes, right now, he is saying it's because of your children, but you have the tools to bring the love feelings back as well.

You will "know" when the A has ended. By his words, by what he does and by what he doesn't do. I was pretty antsy the first week, but then I started to lower my guard. Keep your eyes and ears open.

You do have a tough job, because he is pushing you away, but then wanting you closer. My advice is to not take the pushing away personally. WS is hurting. He doesn't know anything about Plan A and LB'ing. You have to be strong and try to fulfill ENs as much as possible. Plan A does work, but it doesn't work overnight. It is laying down a foundation for a recovery that might take 2 years.

When he says something hurtful, remember it is the fog. I'm sure his self-esteem is at an all-time low. He is finally revealing everything about himself to you. And he's so afraid you will reject him.

Like Dru said, Plan A like you've never Plan A'd before!

Hi CC,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this recovery????? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not yet, but you're getting there. Stay in Plan A, leave the room if you cant keep from LBing with your face (I know EXACTLY what you mean), and give it some time. It's really rough when they give up the OP. He had all these thoughts about how that would go, and the nerve of her to be angry at him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

This is the height of the foggy season for you... take what he says at this time with a grain of salt, but see what he does. He DID break up with her, he IS home.

Keep busy as you can with positive, supportive people. Stay in the best plan A you can for a while longer. Dont give him any reason to regret his decision. The real recovery will come after he's gotten over this abit. Right now, she's the cow, while you are bordering on being saintly... keep it that way! He's mad at her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . She's not behaving the way he thinks she should <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . That is so great! He's had a RUDE awakening, and is probably pretty embarassed. Be there for him but dont hover. If he changes his mind from minute to minute about your supporting/hovering over him... go with the flow.

Do your best Plan A AND do what you need to do to keep yourself strong and calm! Be the picture of a wise, strong W. Please take EXTRA care of yourself!! - Dru

Thanks for the good advice...talked to H today and apparently OW called him at work to apologize for yelling at him. Sigh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> He said some stuff about "backing up" to a friendship with her (grrr...didn't say anything though...) . I asked him about where his priorities were--whether he wanted to focus on this "friendship" or whether he wanted to focus on us--that doing both would be very difficult. He was quiet for a moment, and then said that he had made his decision--to stay. Talked again about going to my colleague's church with me, and wanting to go out with me some time later this week....

Still on plan A....still hoping he can see me/us as a better option than OW. ( And boy, do I have a lot to say about OW right now....grrr.... but I won't....). Bought some new clothes today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , and am trying to set some goals for myself in terms of personal growth (somewhat like the questions you asked me, lbc).

I really want NC, but he isn't ready yet, and yes, I have some work to do to show him that he doesn't need her. Plan A, plan A, plan A...but plan A does have an end point, at which point I will DEMAND NC. or go to plan B. But I still think that plan A is the better choice right now.

The timeline isn't mine to set....which drives me bonkers, but it's one of the realities I had better get used to.

What do you mean about timeline? You mean you cannot control what is gonna happen when? Or are you talking about Plan B? In the first case, you are totally right, in the second case, you are the one to decide.

Have you found an MC? Would he agree to a Retrouvaille weekend? I hope you are able to have your date night.

Yeah for the new clothes! Yes, concentrate on you.

And you're right. Plan B should be seen as a last resort. You have a better chance to influence WS when you can see him everyday.

You are doing such a good Plan A. I know this is gonna turn out the way you want.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> apparently OW called him at work to apologize for yelling at him. Sigh</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, but the more he is with you, the more upset she will get. She'll yell again IF your H is really committed to recovery. More time with you is less time with her. Stay strong.

I've seen some time limits on plan A... I think not more than a few months or so before the BS becomes totally drained and could care less if the WS returns. When you start thinking it's not worth it all, it's time to start considering plan B. (if my memory serves... best to read up on all you can!). Take care- Dru

Good points (and nice to meet you Dru! Never even said hello....shame on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) from both....lbc, when I was talking about a timeline, it was more a sense of frustration of the back and forth nature of things right now....wish that life were more clear cut, but that's not the way life is!

Tonight, H came home and seemed...more himself. More relaxed, more interested in us as a family.....we had a weird conversation though--he is planning on going to OW's house tomorrow "to drop off some books". Hmm...pushed him on this, and he said he was really puzzled by OW reversal--Sat night she let him have it, and today she was acting "ok". I didn't say anything, and he actually asked me "What do you think?" Deep breath....I told him that OW was probably still interested in developing a relationship with him. Then he said " Well, she knows my position. I'm with my family." And then he paused, and said " And I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't see some hope for the two of us".,

I'm taking this one day at at time, and bracing for more lashing tomorrow night....he seemed this clear a few days ago, and then after seeing OW went back into the fog. We'll just have to see.

Take care to all!

You know pedicures and manicures are wonderful feel good therapy too!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I am glad you did something for yourself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

CC, you are a lot stronger than you realize. I really truly admire that in you. Believe it or not, I have learned a great deal from you.

Right now, being in somewhat of a fog yourself, have you taken the time to sit down and write in private your expectations of your marriage? Because so much was lost, you might need to go back and rethink what you need out of it. Keep them to yourself. Until you are ready to explore them with your H. It might take awhile. But don't forget to add things that you can do in it too!

Patients is very difficult! ESPECIALLY when he is greiving over the other women. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I can't give you much advice on that because I blew up when my H. would mope around and write on MB on how much he was hurt because she was cheating on him! Ironic isn't? You feel so helpless, so degraded, But my admiration goes out to you on how well you handle yourself. Great job!

But please get MC. I might have missed that in a post some where if you are. But when you come out of your fog, brace yourself. The emotions of that is more powerful and very difficult to handle. I think our minds protect us from that deep pain when we first find out that leads us into the fog. I like to think of it like a hurricane. You get hammered the first time, then you're dealing with the first blow. Then you get somewhat where you feel safe. The eye of the storm, you see light and think "Wow! How did I handle that"? Then bam! Here you go again! A whole tidal wave of emotions that are too powerful to control. You need someone. So please get MC or IC!

I will be thinking of you! Stay strong and focused!

Ali

I'm glad you guys are talking about the 'other' relationship. You will need to understand what happened and sometimes when the A has ended FWS does not want to talk about it anymore. He will also see you more as a friend that he can confide in. You can work on the 'spouse' part of it later.

Do guys have anything fun planned for the long weekend? Maybe a family outing?

I second Dru's suggestion. It's not all about the WS. You will need to figure out what you want out of your M.

Fortunately, I didn't have to deal with too much withdrawal. FWS quit drinking 15 years ago cold-turkey and he ended the A the same way. It did bother him that she could walk away so easily. I told him that I was sure she was hurting as well. My therapist said I should not defend OW, but I was just being honest. It is weird to try to comfort your husband about someone else, but that is the difficult path we have chosen.

Thanks ALi and lbc....you're embarrasing me, Ali--I feel anything but strong right now!

I know he is going to see her tonight and all sorts of fears come up....the same old stuff I have talked of before. I know it is not over with OW because he will not/cannot do NC yet....so I'll just have to show him that he doesn't need her in his life. I just cannot trust him ...or her (no surprise there, right?). He's so concerned about "her emotional state"....ooh, just makes me want to retch! (sorry, LB there, but you all can handle it. :-) )

Many of you have asked me about IC and MC, and I wanted to address that. I'm trying to find someone, but I live in a large metropolitan area and I don't want to just open the phone book and wander in--particularly to someone who isn't pro-marriage. H doesn't want either IC or MC, so I'm looking on my own until he is ready. I'm checking out some options through my work, and hopefully when the kids are in their summer school/day care, I'll have more time to go and pursue this. Any advice on this would be welcome!

Hi CC,

I know you probably feel weak but you are not! Believe me! You are enduring one of the most painful things a person can go through and you are still standing!

What about getting a recommendation through your own Doctor? Do go through your local phone book and call some place that has qualified therapist and interview them. Ask tons of questions that you are looking for in a person/therapist.
One of your local hospitals will help you as well.

That must be so hard to deal with knowing that he went to see her. I got confused in one part. He went over there to break it off??? Is that right? I know she had a cow when he tried to do it before. I just wonder if you went with him to his "meetings" with her. Their little fantasy and her disception of you will then became a reality. WOW, here is his wife, type of thing. I am not sugggesting it. But I just wonder!

I hope I helped somewhat. I know it is hard. Try to get involved with activites now that the weather is warm. Hopefully you are not flooded like our state is, But walking is great therapy and you get to be in a zone with out anyone interupting you. That's unless you are walking with someone! But hey, watch out for the tree! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Hang in there. OK! Even though you don't know us personally, we are all supporting you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ali

As many people have said before, the path of a BS trying to recover her/his M is not for wimps!

Unfortunately, WS may not end the A until Plan B. That is pretty much what happened with us. It got to the point where I was asking FWS to leave and he was actively looking for an apartment with OW.

It is very hard to weigh the pros and cons of continuing Plan A or going to Plan B.

Do you have an EAP program at work? That's where I got my recommendations. Also many insurance programs also cover therapists. Your insurance plan may have a list already. I was able to find someone close to work that I could see during lunch. You might also say something to your boss in regards of needing some extra time to see a counselor.

Hi....just to clarify for Ali; H says that he wants to move into a friendship with OW, but he's not ready for NC (although he did acknowledge, for the first time, the potential problems with the situation). It's very strange--he does seem more grounded with me, and wants to do more as a couple. He has even said he knows this relationship will eventually fade...he's just not ready to do it cold turkey, I guess. And there is always the question for me: Do I believe him? Do I believe this, knowing the ups and downs we have been through over the past three weeks......hmmm.....

There's improvement here, and although it feels like a lifetime, it really has only been 3 weeks since I found out....I think that the texts say that plan A should go for about 2-3 months, so I think I will try that--of course, if this "friendship" ratchets back up (which it EASILY could) or if he starts lying to me again, I'm mentally preparing myself for plan B. But the thing is, he spends most of his time with ME, because I live in his house and take care of his kids....so I am planning to make each moment count!

You know the strangest thing--he is still really mad at me about the checking account (I set up my own checking account and credit card). He has been pleading with me to get rid of it --"it's just symbolic, and besides, I'm not leaving you". Of course, I'm not getting rid of it--EVER.

You are the second person to tell me about the EAP plan...I have terrible health insurance through my employer, but I am trying to check into that.

Oh dear--baby complaining...more later.

CC: I read your thread and my heart is breaking for you. We should really get together and talk offline. I was in plan A for 6 months, all while WH was going back and forth between working on us, and being REALLY REALLY MAD at me, navigating toward the OW, and back to me, etc. His A was physical, but because she was such a long distance away, it is really more emotional, which, I think is worse. I would have rathered it be a just a physical, one night stand thing, than this close, intimate, "love" or "friendship" he thinks he has with her.

I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

I'm guessing it is very difficult for anyone to give up an A, that is why there is a Plan A and B. I kinda knew in my heart that my FWS would end it cold-turkey. He is an extreme type of personality, but most people are not like that.

Plan A allows the WS to see all of the good in the M. They usually forget about that right before the A and they certainly change history during it.

When you guys talk about the A again, you might question him on why he thinks the A would eventually fade. This is not his soulmate? You're lucky, but hearing about the flaws in the A will make you stronger. Remember not to LB, gloat, or tell him you knew she was a piece of trash.

You're right. Three weeks is only the beginning. A good Plan A will last a couple of months at least. But remember, this is also a time to concentrate on you. Bring some joy into your life, because heartache is not far away.

Oh I had a thought this morning about WS' anger. I read it on this site yesterday and my FWS also said it. Very often they are angry because they feel the BS did not take the problems in the M seriously until they had an A. Even though they were in the wrong to go outside the M, we still have to validate their feelings and complaints.

I hope you will be doing something fun this weekend. A date maybe?

Just wanted to write in response to your letters....SerendipiT, thanks for the lovely note--and no, I'm not the least offended (quite the opposite, actually...). I'll set up an email account and let you know the particulars.
Lbc--You hit it on the head, as usual! He is FURIOUS that it took this for me to wake up. Having said that, he also says it's nice to see me awake...

We have a date tonight.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It's so strange--he keeps acting as if we are really together--talking about finances, and how "we" need to do this and that...I just looked at him and said " so there is a we?" He told me of course.....and yet he still maintains this "friendship" with OW, but he seems much more committed to us. I told him that I didn't want to have him come to me next month and say, we tried, but no go. He looked at me as if I were crazy, and said "I am staying. Period."

Very confusing....I am having trouble with my internet provider at home, so I can't post sometimes, but I will be reading and will let you know what happens.

cc,

If you hadn't had real issues that you needed to address in the marriage...a shorter Plan A would be the way to go since he seems so comfortable on the fence. But sorry chere...you're going to have to go the distance (3 months) no matter what he does because you have demonstrate consistently that you are serious about taking his needs into account or he is not going to believe the marriage is an attractive alternative. Right now, he's still expecting you to fall back into old bad habits...so don't do it. Keep absolute control over those LBs. Continue to tell him how the affair feels to you....make it about you. Continue to communicate to him that no contact is pretty essential to ever reaching a healthy marriage...but don't give ultimatims.

I'm watching your back chere.

Hey starfish....great to hear you again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thanks for the insight; I think it's too short a time as well to abandon plan A--and truthfully, I think a lot of progress has been made (at least for me) in a short time. Hopefully, more will come....I suppose this is what happens when you are open to change.....
Thanks for the concern, and I'll let you know what happens.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, here is a quick update .... WH still thinks he can maintain a "friendship" with OW and stay with me...says he can love two people at the same time. He said some interesting things at dinner the other night....said that part of the reason he is still maintaining contact is because he feels that she needs him for validation. (!!) It is definitely a knight in shining armor complex....I know, because that is exactly how WE started so many years ago.

He wants to go have dinner with her, and I was noncommittal--I told him that I could not tell him that this was "ok"--and then he got mad at me. Is it a LB to express feelings ? I didn't get mad, and I wasn't disrespectful at all. He basically told me that if I really loved him I would grant him this space. I told him that I had been so emotionally dishonest with him over all of these years that the expression of these feelings, however painful for him, WAS an expression of love for him. He also gave the usual line "WHy now, after all of these years", and I repeated that I am trying to take responsibility, the responsibility that I fully admit I ran away from for a long time (Would that he would take the responsibility too....but he's not ready)

He is reaching out more and more to me--this morning, he was withdrawn, but then reached out for a hug-- which is good....but I still consider the A to be ongoing (he doesn't).

But you know....I don't want him to "rescue" me--I do not need the knight in shining armor fallacy. I need a life partner--on an equal footing. I wonder if I'll ever get that.... from him.

Just to clarify....he says he has backed up into a friendship with her, but that there are still "feelings" for her that he will not pursue. I reread my post and that's not so clear from what I've written---probably because I don't know if I believe it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />