Hi...thanks for the words of encouragement...I'm absolutely TERRIBLE about second-guessing, and I have to try to stop it.

I do have a time limit for plan A...and it's a bit longer than most people here have suggested, but I think I'm going to give it until Christmas time...and here's why:
a) I don't think three months will be enough to show him that I have changed...because of all the stuff in our past.
b) I am seeing signs of progress (as miserably slow as they are)....he has backed off of seeing her, and himself has acknowledged that maintaining a friendship may not be possible.
c) I really am not ready to give up on this as soon as three months (although six months of this may be more agony than I can bear...)

Now, of course, I don't have a crystal ball--if the lies start again, if he ratchets up the intensity again...then I would probably reconsider. You know, he sounds fine WHEN HE DOESN"T SEE HER...and then when he does, we start the same path all over again. I am pretty sure that they are still in email contact, but I have decided that, for a while, I am not going to ask him about their relationship....but instead I want to focus on OUR relationship.

He is not the only one who has a choice here. And he realizes that (he told me this). Whenever I fall prey to the old fears of him leaving me (which he actually says he won't do), I try to remember this....

And deep down, yes, I suspect that someone will have to push him off the fence. Either me or OW. He's getting comfortable sitting there!

I am trying to take better care of myself-- I started writing in a journal (I used to years ago, and stopped for some reason).

And I'll leave on a funny note--on Saturday, I received a call whose ID wasn't available on the caller ID...it turned out to be one of those silly customer satisfaction surveys (I had recently had a flat tire, and went to have it fixed). I took the call in the back bedroom, and didn't think much of it. Well, WH apparently DID; came upstairs where I was with the kids, and started asking me questions about the phone call!! " Who was it? Why were they calling from out of state? ".

Does he think I am having an affair??? Good grief....

You know what? I was actually gonna say that I think FWS' A ended because it was Christmas time. You might have the right idea. I think WS' can't stand the idea of ruining Christmas for their babies, etc. Also, Christmas promotes the whole 'family' thing.

The longer you Plan A the better, but make sure you take care of yourself. Monitor your LB'ing. If it gets to be too much, you can rethink your plan. It was so hard for me -- I ended up asking FWS to leave.

I'm glad you can see the progress. Sometimes it's invisible. You really don't know what he is saying to himself. How many times do we have positive thoughts about our partners, but we forget to say them? But I know you will see the A end. I just have a good feeling about it.

The thing is that the longer WS is at home and on the fence, the worse that is for OW. At first, they can understand why the sneaking around and limited contact, but after awhile they start wondering how long it's gonna last. Who is OW? Does she want a long-term relationship with WS?

FWS' OW did and that was her undoing. The 'perfect' OW is satisfied with *whatever* crumbs are thrown her way. That is the role she should be playing if she wants to be in the picture long-term. The thing is that most start dreaming of a full-time relationship and even marriage. Hey, who can blame them -- they are in love.

But because of that, every time WS goes home, is a dagger in her heart. The doubts start creeping in. If he really loved me, would he treat me like this? This is the beginning of the end for them. And Plan A just seals their fate.

I love that he was suspicious of you! Oh they are so in the fog, they don't know which way is up. Another sign that he still *cares*. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are sounding pretty good in such a difficult position. Maybe you should make some goals for yourself for the rest of the year. Have you read any other books on infidelity? I've heard that "Not Just Friends" is very good. I never got to pick that up. It might help to get different ideas to try during this time.

I'm so impressed with the work you've done so far!

I'm SO glad to see your post, lbc--H came home in a BAD mood, and I felt like the proverbial doormat--almost slipped into an LB, caught myself, and then said very slowly : I know you are tired tonight, and you should get to bed as soon as possible. And I was SO good tonight, even though he hardly said two words to me --and this in front of a friend of ours! So I put on the good act....and I was FURIOUS inside.

Then I went out (to get baby food) and cursed the whole way there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> At least it wasn't at him.....

Each day....is a new journey, isn't it? Take care, lbc....so you're a SoCal girl huh? Saw your post on the other thread...I blew it and told everyone I was from Texas. The insults are still ringing in my ears... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I lived in the Bay Area for four years for school...

Just to follow up....about OW. I'm not exactly sure what she wants; I know she is VERY lonely, and probably this contact, as wrong as it is, is better than none. Like I have said before, I'm really not that upset at her..sure, I wish she would do "the right thing", but again, it's another chance for WH to avoid the responsibility of the actions HE chose.

I hope, at some time, OW will think about what she really wants...and whether that's even possible with a married man.

There is a catch here...her work contract expires soon, and she has applied for other jobs. So she may leave..and I think that is what WH is waiting for--again, another chance to avoid making a decision.

And this is what is killing him...he will hurt someone in this process. He HAS hurt people in this process...he HAS hurt himself in this process. And all of this deceit, to himself, to me, even to OW--it's changing him into a person that I don't even recognize--a cold, sometimes heartless person who is just immersed in himself. And his pain.

This is going to take a LONG time to undo....

You are doing so well! Oh, I used to scream in the car, too. Get it all out in your journal, etc. Just don't LB!

I'm glad you are checking out other threads. Even though people may be in different places, sometimes you get a little bit of help somewhere. BS' need so much!

I didn't catch the TX insults. Hey, my parents were born there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> FWS is from San Francisco so we go up pretty often.

During the A, I did not blame OW, either. I saw her as young and naive. I was actually afraid to talk to her, cuz I thought we might actually become friends. Weird, huh? But the thing is, WS' and OWs are not any different than any of us. That will be your key to recovery over and over again.

I hope she ends up moving. FWS' OW got transferred to another building during their A. FWS loves 'signs' and I mentioned that maybe that meant he is supposed to work on our M. Hey, you have to use whatever you can. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Surprisingly, you will both feel like different people going through this journey. And that will be something for you to remember. He will not be the same person you married and you know what? That is good, because your M was not working very well before. You will both need to change.

Oh...I hate writing this, but I have met the OW...and I could so easily be friends with her. I know what WH sees in her....and again, I'm not so much angry with her as disappointed in WH...and yes, angry with him.

Last night was tough. WH has had a really rough week at work, and I've been trying to give the "relationship" talk a break...just support him through the week without introducing any other stuff. It's just hard, because he is dealing (or not) with the situation by piling on the work...getting lost in his work, I guess. So, very gingerly, I asked him how he was, and made the observation that he was a bit uncomfortable at home. He flinched, and basically ducked the conversation--said he didn't want to talk about it while he was so tired.

I knew that...but I was so tired of being treated like a doormat for the whole week. I held my tongue, told him I understood, and that I would put our daughter to sleep so he could go down and go to bed early. Then, we got a phone call from some of my extended family, and WH talked to them...and I just felt so sick listening to him talk as if everything were ok here (I know, what was he supposed to do? Tell them the truth?).

So, after wrestling with the little girl (who wanted desperately to stay AWAKE and chat with mommy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), I went into the bedroom, changed, and got into bed. Decided it was better to go to sleep than to provoke any kind of fight, which would have been completely unproductive. WH comes in, and sits on the bed...and tries to make small talk! Asks me if I want a snack, etc...and I did respond very nicely to this...no LB, not to worry!
I just don't know what to make of this...this morning, he leaned over, kissed me goodbye, and went to work (he had to leave at 4 am, so I might have dreamt this, but I'm pretty sure it happened).
To live with a stranger in the house is so demoralizing...and I'm sure this is how HE felt for so long. I read some of the posts from FWS here, and I cringe, knowing that this is probably how WH is feeling--feeling like he may come back to the marriage but lose all chances of love. I know, because I'm starting to feel the same way.

Sorry, this is sort of a whiny post...but I would rather get it out of my system that let it sit and fester inside.

I had met OW once before, too. She was just one of FWS' employees at the time. I couldn't even remember her face, so I was just imagining this Latin goddess on earth. I saw a pic of her later and she's okay. Younger and thinner than me, but not drop dead gorgeous.

An A attacks your self-esteem so much that you think you are just no competition for the OW. However, we can have dignity and class through this whole horrible ordeal. For one thing, I never badmouthed OW and she never did the same to me. FWS said we were actually empathizing with each other at some points during the A.

She never sent any nasty messages or tried to call our home (until NC day). I could have sent her emails or waited for her after work (I know someone who had their friends beat up the OW!), but I never did. The closest I got was to call her cell when I was trying to get in touch with FWS.

And she has not tried to contact FWS once after NC. I just thank god for that.

I remember FWS having work problems during the A as well (he was trying to avoid laying off someone). I tried my best to listen, but at that time, I wasn't working too hard to meet his ENs. I would just wonder why he called me instead of OW.

Your WS is coming home. And you are part of what makes *home* for him. That is a very powerful force. Be confident in that. Be confident that the A will end and you will rebuild your M to what you both want.

Write, write, write! You have decided to pursue the difficult path of Plan A. You can still express your hurt and anger. It is the LBs that we are trying to extinguish. When you recover your M, there will be hurt and anger along the way, too. We are human after all, so the goal is find a constructive way to express it.

Oh god, do I remember telling FWS that I was fulfilling ENs without any reciprocity for 3 months (Plan A). His answer is that he was doing it for 3 years. Ouch!!

WS is a stranger right now. He doesn't even know who he is. But slowly he will start to put the pieces back together and he will realize that he couldn't have done without you!

Yes, they do think that returning to the M is the 'right' thing to do, but they assume that their life will be devoid of love and passion.

I can't reassure WS, but I can reassure you that it does come back. Not overnight and not all at once, but slowly, you start seeing each other with new eyes. And you realize how close you were to losing it all. And you learn to step back when you get too close to the edge again. And you learn to be calm and patient. And you learn to love again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just want to let you know that we are going out of town tomorrow. I will try to login during the weekend, but in case I don't get a chance, I will see you on Monday. Have a wonderful weekend!

I think I will call you the Plan A queen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have a great weekend, lbc....hmmm, I think a better name for me might be "plan A cinderella".

You don't know how much I look forward to reading your encouraging posts...particularly when I feel anything but encouraged. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have to add this! But I hate Texas! That is where H's. Affair took place. Anything Texas makes me want to puke. It is a trigger thing!

Plan A. as long as you can! Good for you CC. Glad to see that you are willing to put 100% into it. I really admire you for that!

Ali

By the way, Gulp! What part of Texas are you from? And do you like Texas? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi Ali! I have some ambivalent feelings about Texas myself...I'm transplanted (grew up both in Ohio and Texas) , and actually vowed as a teenager that I would never return. So much for that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know what you mean...I went to school in California, which I loved...until I found out that there was a California connection for both of WH A's ...and now I feel somewhat sour about the place. Which is too bad, because it really is a beautiful state.

I live in the DFW area....not as pretty as the Piney Woods where some of the MB posters are from....my WH also hates Texas. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Maybe we will move someday...

Thanks for the good wishes....I'm trying to keep my hopes reasonable without getting too demoralized. Sometimes he seems on the verge of coming back and giving OW up...and then the fog comes back. On a good note, he has not gone over to her place (that I know of?) in at least two weeks. You take what you can get, sometimes...

I'm afraid to write this down...afraid to believe what he is saying and yet hoping that it's true! After all the grueling conversations, we have had a quiet week, but in the past two days, I have noticed a change in WH. More content to be at home, interested in my opinion (?!?!?), more willing to reach out. And I have given him space and time, and tried to be as supportive as I could, without smothering him.

Tonight, he came home looking wiped out. I asked him what was up, and he said, "well, I was just getting yelled at by a person you don't like very much.". Ok... He said that OW had called him, and he had told her that he was staying with US this weekend, and didn't really volunteer to go over to her place, etc. Apparently she lost it.

So WH and I talked....he said he realized that what we had, although it had many problems, had some very special qualities to it as well....and strangely, he actually felt good about how we were interacting. He said he could see the changes in me, and it was wonderful to see.

Then he said he was in the process of letting go....he still wants the friendship but I think he is realizing how difficult that would be...for everyone. And he wrote her a letter to that end...not exactly a NC letter, but he's getting there. AND HE DID IT! NO ONE DID IT FOR HIM! I saw the letter that he wrote....again, not the NC letter I need, but I'm still only 1 full month into plan A--there's still a way to go.

I'm wiser now...I don't think this is over yet, and it probably will be a long and protracted mess. He talks of a future with us....of working on our relationship.....and I so desperately want to believe him. And I told him that...there was some hesitation on my part given the track record--what if OW calls/writes back and is contrite, or just pretends the yelling episode didn't happen? He actually told me that he would force this issue so that no one would misunderstand.

I don't want to get my hopes up...because I don't want to get hurt. I guess what I am seeing, for the first time, is an acknowledgement of responsibility from him. Let's see if it continues, or if it is just another bump in this road....I'm not being pessimistic; I'm trying to learn how to be realistic.

I really don't know WHAT is going on here....

Friday night, WH came home--apparently OW let him have it for not helping her move (she is moving CLOSER to us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) On Saturday, they exchanged heated emails, and by Sunday, she called him with some story about needing his help to unpack. So he went....but to make a long story short, he came back VERY early. Told me that he told her that the "affair" was over, but that if they were to remain friends, she needed to understand.

This is the weird part, that after all this drama on her part, she does a complete 180--says she ok with the situation, that she understands, and that she would like to be friends with me.....

What????????

I do see changes in WH....and we have had some wonderful, honest conversations--and I didn't hold back from telling him some truths (nicely, of course). I feel closer to him than I have in a very long time. And he seems to be more grounded...more like the person I fell in love with. Very little fog talk, if any. PLanning for a future even....although I hold back a bit, out of fear and insecurity, I suppose.

BUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH OW? She is playing a game! And I don't want to play!

I'm still in plan A....I still think it's a bit too soon to make ultimatums, particularly since he IS talking to me...and he told me that she basically made a pass at him Sunday night...and he walked away and came home. HE called me that night, and for the first time in a long while, he told me he loved me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's not over...it's just getting very strange. I do feel strong though....if he is "cake-walking" I will find out, and there will be a limit. I would rather, honestly, have this drag out and know exactly where I stand than to have a false recovery and have him lie to me. He really wants to maintain a "friendship'...I will seehow this plays out over a timeline.

Honesty is always better....even if it hurts.

I'm so happy to hear about this turn of events. It is all going according to plan -- plan A! Congrats. Yes, it won't be easy, but you are on the path. You are doing everything right. WS will have to step up to the plate, but you are *helping* him, supporting him. It will be very hard for him to give OW up *cold turkey* but you are making it easier for him. You are giving him every reason to do it!

Don't worry about OW. She is desperate. It doesn't matter who or if anyone is playing a game. You have a plan. Don't deviate from it and everyone will be reacting to you.

I suspect that WS' OW may be similar to my FWS' OW. I was lucky that he seemed to choose someone with 'principles'. It might hard to see that for an OW, but the way she conducted herself in the context of the A could be admired. They (our OWs) did not expect to find themselves in this situation. Maybe they didn't really have any expectations of the relationship at first. Maybe they assumed that if a married person is involved with someone else, it must mean the M is dead. But they fell in love. And that is their downfall and part of our recovery.

I'm guessing that OW is changing her tune, because she does care for WS. She does love him and is starting to realize that she did not expect to find herself in the position of the OW. I remember FWS' OW would get upset because she felt pushed aside as if she were the OW -- duh!

This is the roundabout way of saying that I think if WS goes NC, she will, too.

Pour it on, girl! Plan A like you've never Plan A'd before. Did WS fill out the EN questionaire? If you don't feel comfortable asking him, have you tried to guess at his ENs yourself? Have you been fulfilling them? What else can you do to fulfill them?

I sincerely hope OW is serious about not wanting to interfere. Just continue to take the position that neither of you should have any contact with her ever again -- for the sake of your M.

Will WS consider MC? Can you go to Retrouvaille? You need to capitalize on this opportunity!

I believe most cakemen don't mean to do it. They are just caught in the fog. Don't doubt yourself or what you have accomplished here! He is not playing a game. He is a hurt man who has a long road of *personal* recovery ahead of him.

You are right, though. You are not in recovery until NC. Like I said, your FWS will be going through withdrawal *before* NC. Hang on tight!

Are you having fun? One piece of advice I got about recovery is to remember to lighten up. I tend to be serious when I'm stressed and heaven knows, this is a very stressful situation. So remember to play around a little. Have fun with your husband, tease him, etc.

And I'm so happy to hear how well you are doing. See, you are the Plan A Queen!

Do you know what a class act you are? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's such a confusing road to tread right now....but things are definitely getting better ( I think). He is allowing me to get closer, and I think we are both fulfilling needs that haven't been met for a long time.

But there is a part of me that is afraid to really believe this....that this may be "false", and that OW may not let go. I think it is true what you are saying about her; it's just that she has said some very nasty things about me lately...which I guess is understandable...and strangely, WH defended me !

I try to put myself in her position....and think that maybe WH is trying to let go gently. And then old fears return and I think maybe they are BOTH playing games with me....when I get paranoid like this, I head straight to my journal, write it all down, and leave it alone! He asked me if I could be friends with her, and I immediately said "NO". I think this hurt him....later I explained that it was just too soon for me--two weeks ago he wanted a divorce. The landscape just changed so suddenly, and I'm still reeling (even if no one else apparently is! actually, maybe they just deal with it differently...)

It's hard for me to lighten up, but I'm trying...last night we looked at an art magazine ..and made fun of all the "strange" art that we saw. Juvenile, but it made us both laugh, and that felt good.

PLan A is really not the problem...he is making it so easy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> What's hard is keeping the paranoia in check---wanting to confide in him and he in me, but really afraid that when I'm the most vulnerable, the world will come crashing down again. But this was my big problem for so long--it is a new feeling for me to wear my feelings on my sleeve, and even in other relationships (friends) I am doing this more--and people are responding to me. I had no idea how isolated and depressed I had become.

He still isn't interested in MC....but maybe he needs to deal with OW first. i still think it would be very helpful for us.

Okay, I want to throw something out here that is not part of the MB principles, so please tread carefully. My FIL had an EA (possibly PA) a couple of years ago. When we told MIL that FWS was having an A, she was very supportive of me and Plan A. In her situation, though, she knew nothing of MB. At the time of the FILs A, FWS did send MIL to his old therapist and the therapist was very supportive of MILs desire to stay in the M. Most ICs (mine included) don't like this tact.

Anyways, at the end of FIL's A, MIL had no idea if NC was happening or not. All she knew is that the calls were lessening, etc. Until finally one day she decided that she was not going to live in fear anymore. She was going to take her M back and she engaged fully. To this day, she has no idea when the A ended, but their M is in recovery and they are very happy.

What I want to say is that even though MB principles say NC must happen, an NC letter must be sent, etc., there are other paths to recovery. You will know when NC has occured. You will be able to feel it. Just like now, you're not too sure, probably because it hasn't happened yet.

When FWS apologized for the A, I had no idea if he intended to initate NC. I didn't ask or push. But he told me that she was not calling or sending messages. A week went by and I was still not sure about letting my guard down when she called for the last time.

My FWS never sent an NC letter, but I believe he has not been in contact for close to 6 months.

One time FWS agreed with the notion that an A is like an addiction. Our MC would not continue until the A had ended and FWS said, "Well, if the A is ended, isn't that the goal?" He likened the A to an addiction that needs to be replaced by something else, slowly but surely.

MOST therapists do not agree with this model, however. They say stop the behavior (drinking, A, whatever) and then we'll start working on the problems.

I just wanted to throw that out there to show that there can be different roads to recovery, but the fundamental element is that both parties must be working on it.

I get the sense that you are at the beginning of your recovery. You will find that there are ups and downs, stops and starts, but slowly you will see progress, changes.

It's okay to be apprehensive. This is part of your personal recovery and unfortunately down the road, you will wonder if you made the right choice. But that just means you are healing.

Plan A is about survival. When you are in recovery and you have some breathing room, you will have to make your own personal committment to your M. And that will be the beginning for *both* of you.

Try not to worry about the OW. When nasty things come out of her mouth, it is only a reflection of her. And it will be part of the decision when WS ends contact. Always take the high road. Having empathy for someone else not only makes you look good, but makes you feel very humble as well.

Oh gosh. During the A, I thought I could be friends with OW. Now, I would tear her head off if I ever met her again. Can you imagine if we divorced? I would probably still be dealing with her -- ugh!

The art magazine is just perfect. Do more of that! I have to admit I'm not playful enough. Something for me to work on as well.

If Plan A and LB'ing are not a problem, then you're halfway there! You are just waiting for WS to step up and I think it's just a matter of time. Don't let up on Plan A, though!

I believe the true benefit of the MB principles is that this is a personal recovery as well as a marital one. Each of us has to heal in some way when we've been touched by infidelity. It gives us a chance to step back and figure out if there is some way we could improve ourselves.

If WS is not interested in MC, will he read recovery books?

Thanks so much for the insight....yes, I'm sure that some would say that what I am doing is not exactly in accordance with the principles espoused here...yet I do feel that this is the beginning of a recovery...

WH went to see her for dinner last night; described their meeting as "happy/sad" and asked me how I was. I answered very honestly--"lonely". He is moving in his way to end/stop the affair, and I will not rush him on that. The idea of a false recovery based on my insistence....and on my timeline....seems rather selfish and altogether unappealing to me.

But I am lonely. He is here, and yes, things are much better, but in such a short span of time everything got turned upside down. I go from being happy to sad to angry in a matter of MINUTES these days, and I'm trying very hard not to subject WH to all of these mood shifts. I'm lonely because in my mind, I'm not sure if he really wants to be with me. I miss my best friend. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Ok, enough self-pity.....things are getting better, not just for us, but for me too. I just have to deal with my own roller coaster.

I think there will come a time when you will not be able to tolerate the dinners. For WS to fully engage in the M, there has to be NC. But I think you will know when the time is right to kick it up a notch. Plan B is the last resort. You will have to make sure you don't LB before Plan B starts. It has to come out of left field. BUT the best chances for your M is for WS to come home every night.

It will all depend on how much you can withstand without losing your love for WS. Please pay attention to yourself during this tough time.

Yeah, you don't want a mopey WS if he is forced to go NC, but that only begins the withdrawal that is needed. He can't see it, yet, but his heart will disentangle from the feelings that he has for OW, but that won't happen for 3 or 6 months after NC. And it won't begin until NC.

But you are right. I'm so glad I didn't have to do too much 'consoling' at the end of the A. Ugh!

Unfortunately, you will have those doubts of his love for you for awhile, yet. I still do, but then I remember all of the loving things my FWS has done for me and I'm reassured.

It actually happened last night. We went to a store that happened to be across the street from a hotel that FWS used to go to with OW. I take the sad moment and acknowledge it. I embrace the fear and then I look at FWS again. And I wonder how I would be feeling if I were him. It would kill me to think I did something that could *never* be erased. I wonder if his pain is worse than mine. And I realize that no one would stay unless they absolutely loved you.

And the same is true for you. WS thinks he is in love with OW. He will discover that he had true love in front of him all this time.

Reach out when you have those low moments. Have you told anyone that your M is in trouble? Maybe you don't have to say exactly what is going on, but it helps if someone knows you are hurting.

((hugs)) to you!

I completely agree-there will come a time where I will have to draw a line....and he knows this--he himself has admitted that. Again, I just don't quite feel it's time for plan B; and part of that reluctance is that, just as he needs to see changes in me, I need to see changes in him.

Don't worry--I have a timeline for what I need....and part of that timeline is trying to show him respect (I know, I don't exactly feel the reciprocal yet, but one party has to start) and see what it is he does. I know the risk of him going back to her is really high right now (although he denies this; he keeps saying it's over, but....), and yet I know if I were to demand NC now, he might do it--but still sneak around because he felt that I boxed him into a corner. At least at this point, he tells me what is going on.... I think....

As I said before, the plan A isn't really that hard, and I haven't really felt like LB's,, but there will come a point, as you said, where I will have had enough.

Let's hope he beats me to it, and comes back fully to our life.

Hello---weekend was actually pretty good, although it didn't start out that way. WH went out for coffee with OW on Friday, and came home grumpy (because it's really over? who knows). I got cranky too--REALLY felt like a doormat, and wondered (not for the first time) if maybe I should be the one out, since I was starting to become a zombie. On Saturday, we went out to get some pizza, and he basically said that OW was "ok" with the situation, and doing well, and that he felt better about us than he had in a while.

Oh dear...I couldn't take it. Very respectfully, I told him that I was NOT ok, that just weeks ago he told me all of this stuff and wanted a divorce, and now I am wondering if I can live my life this way with this shadow over my head, and maybe I should be the one to gracefully (or not) bow out..HE FREAKED OUT! I honestly didn't tell him this for "revenge"; I just couldn't pretend anymore. He told me he NEVER wanted a divorce, that he was very committed to us, that he saw changes for the better....

And the rest of the weekend was much better. Now, part of it is due to the fact that OW is out of town....so I'm bracing myself for the same rollercoaster when she returns.

lbc, if you are out there, I've been thinking a lot about your MIL/FIL situation...and I can see why your MIL did what she did. And I think this is where I'm teetering--I can throw myself 100% back into building the marriage instead of worrying about shadows, and run the risk of getting smashed--and in a sense, I'm already doing this. But I can't deny that I'm holding back a bit, because I don't want to get hurt, because there is a part of my brain that keeps saying "how many times are you going to be so gullible!".

With all respect to the MB philosophy (which has worked wonderfully for me!), there probably isn't any one "right" way of negotiating this path (there are plenty of "wrong" ways, though!).

Just thinking aloud...hope you had a good weekend!

I'm still here! Tomorrow is 6 months of NC and I guess I've been a bit more introspective.

I think grumpy means no one is happy. OW is not happy, you are not happy, and WS is not happy. I think it means that WS knows something will have to give.

I'm glad you are telling him how you really feel. I'm glad you are telling him that you may be the one to bow out. Like you said, it's not to get a reaction from WS, but you are just telling your truth. He needs to understand the consequences of his actions and he doesn't realize that this is also withdrawing units from OW's LBank as well.

I just want to reassure you that Plan A is working, but you will have to be careful that the continued contact does not drain your love for WS. Unfortunately, that's what happens when contact goes for too long. There are not many of us that can live like that for months on end. We are not saints!

You know, the question is not whether you can fully reengage into your M, the question is whether you can Plan A. FWS kept asking me for changes during the A, but how can you make that leap when he is involved with someone else? It just can't be done.

You are talking about throwing yourself 100% into rebuilding your M. That is admirable, but this is not the right time. The right time is when the A has ended. All you need to concentrate on is Plan A. And remember a big part of that is taking care of yourself, finding some joy in your life.

Are you seeing WS re-engaging? I believe this is a slow path. As you plan A, WS re-engages a bit more, contact lessons, and then *you* will feel comfortable in working on the M even more.

You are uncertain about rebuilding the M, because you can *feel* WS has not fully returned. I would have to ask MIL, but my guess is that she didn't let go of her fears until about a year after d-day.

Have you considered counseling with the Harleys? I'm not an expert by any means and I was wondering if they might have a different perspective on your situation. Maybe they will tell you to hold your course.