Well, tonight should be interesting! H told me that he had been communicating with OW for the past few days and that it had been very unpleasant. She is MAD, feels used, feels like a victim, etc. Apparently she told him she wants to see him tonight (?) for dinner...for the last time. Hmmm....

H asked me what I thought--which so caught me by surprise I initially just stared at him. And then I started to talk....to tell him that in a weird way, I had empathy for OW, and that she is going to be mad--because she played this risky game and (apparently) lost. But I also thought she was milking this situation a bit; we have been through this before, where she gets raving mad and then calls back all sweetness and light a few days later. The difference--H is getting fed up with it!

I asked him what it would be like for him if he didn't have contact with her--I was expecting him to say he would be sad, there would be regrets, etc. He surprised me again--he said it WOULD BE A RELIEF. Of course, he then followed that by saying he really had wished they could be "friends"....withdrawal is hard, and I can imagine that the emotions are conflicting, even though it may not be exactly what I want to hear.

When I asked him why she was angry, he again surprised me; he said that this was a "Dead-End" situation because she could not let go. Additionally, he told me that she gets mad because he feels bad that he goes out while I stay home with the kids...she doesn't want a "friend" who has to check in with his wife before he goes out with her. Hello??

Am I finally getting my husband back? Will this woman ever leave us alone?

I have to admit, my policy on neutrality on OW is fast disintegrating; she also made some snide comment, when H asked how long it would take tonight (he hasn't seen the kids for the whole week because of an insanely busy week at the hospital), about the fact that " don't worry, you'll be home in time to tuck your kids in".. GRRRRRR ( place any foul language there in its place!). These are innocent kids, and whatever WH's failings are, he LOVES his kids and beats himself up that he isn't there enough with them. Let OW be mad at ME, let her say snide things about ME, but what did these little ones do??? (sorry, but all should know--NEVER NEVER MESS WITH A MOM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

I'm trying to be cautiously hopeful here....been around long enough, however, to know how fast these things can change...sigh....I just hope he can do what is right. For him, and for us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I asked him why she was angry, he again surprised me; he said that this was a "Dead-End" situation because she could not let go. Additionally, he told me that she gets mad because he feels bad that he goes out while I stay home with the kids...she doesn't want a "friend" who has to check in with his wife before he goes out with her. Hello??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Needless to say, your husband is an intellectually smart man. Emotionally, however, he's still wandering around in the fog.

But, and this I think is a major "but," the OW is Love Busting all over the place. Remember those little things called EN's?

Guess who is meeting them and who is not. Guess who is engaging in Disrespectful Judgments and who isn't?

Guess who's intellect is begin to reassert itself and is "seeing" the "real" OW?

Can anyone say..."SELFISH WOMAN!"? Children are unimportant (yes I know about this one as my wife's OM told her over and over that our children "will get over it."). Tell that to a man or a woman who loves his/her children and see how impacts someone's feelings of love for the selfish speaker. SHE doesn't want him engaged with "another woman" (how do you feel about putting on that label? Grin!). She wants him all to herself as if he were a single man with no children and no wife. Gee, does that sound at all like TOW thinking?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H told me that he had been communicating with OW for the past few days and that it had been very unpleasant. She is MAD, feels used, feels like a victim, etc. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">cciyer, you've "won." It's just a matter of time and you can both begin recovery. Oh, there will still be some tough times, some stupid things, but once withdrawal ends (and she is speeding it up with her selfish emotional attacks), you'll be knee deep in recovery.

God bless.

<small>[ July 02, 2004, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

ForeverHers, I think you are right.....the withdrawal has begun--it isn't quite the NC I wanted now, but I think it's coming, just based on how H is acting, not just with me but with our kids. To be honest, the way he talks about her....I think this "friendship" will probably die off (he himself says that it may end up "superficial", and I can't imagine how it would last when he feels like that)

And it's our children that really cemented the decision--H loves them, and realizes that any other type of action would be so damaging to these innocents. ( FH, I can't tell you the number of our "friends" --who admittedly do not have kids of their own--who told us to break it off and divorce now while our children were young...so they "would get over it". !!??!!??)

This past weekend we have had some very good, deep conversations--about what was missing (for both of us), and acknowledging that both of us were angry and hurt, and wanted to move beyond it. Can you believe--he was talking to me about the kind of retirement house he wanted for us...( we're in our 30's so this is hopefully down the road, but to talk of a future for both of us....FINALLY) ! And the way we talk--the interactions are so much more satisfying than they ever have been....I can only hope we are truly moving to a better place.

I finally feel free....and regardless of what happens, in this process I did discover some confidence in myself.

I may not post quite as much here as I did....may take a little break and then see if I can come back, much as you and lbc have, and try to offer support and encouragement for those who are in this nightmarish process....I can't thank you enough!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Of course OW is angry. She can feel WS pulling away as you can feel him moving closer! Even if she does call back all sweetness and light, the damage has been done. She can LB like anyone else.

You do sound so much better! Have you read your first postings? You'll be amazed at how far you've come. I know MB says you need total NC, but you are the only one that knows what is going on in your M. And I suspect WS will do the right thing and end it at some point.

You are past the immediate crisis, but remember to keep building on what you started. Pick up a couple of marriage recovery books, find an MC, etc.

Please come back once and awhile and let us know how you are doing. I'm so happy for you and your family! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks so much for the good thoughts...I don't think I could really have H be friends with OW long term--and he doesn't think so either, actually. I just decided that it "felt" right to enter back into the marriage, and see what happens--with the knowledge and confidence that I have changed, and can articulate what I need. Each week it seems like she means less and less to him --he actually said " I love you" unprompted to me the other day!--and we have had some very honest (albeit painful) conversations about what went so wrong, and that we were BOTH to blame.

I am going to reevaluate this situation around Christmas time (which was my original point to take plan A ) and see what this "friendship" actually turns out to be. He knows that a friendship that is separate from everything else in his life is doomed for failure...and he also knows that I will (with great sadness) leave him if he cannot eventually get to NC.

lbc, I have set up an email account (cciyer1@yahoo.com)--I would love to continue corresponding with you--as a friend--if you are comfortable with that. (Never in a million years would I have dreamed I would be posting to an online chat area about my marriage...and giving out an email address!). If you would rather not, I do understand, and can't thank you enough for all of the help and support you have given me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, an interesting update.

H came home the other day, looked completely exasperated, and said, " YOu know, I don't think I can be friends with OW." (Oh really? What have I been saying all along?? Sorry, couldn't resist....) I guess OW is continuing to LB, but I have to admit, I'm getting worried...and not because I think H is going back to her.

She is starting to threaten him....he says she keeps mentioning how broke she is, and how "rich" we are....this sounds like extortion to me. For the first time, H mentioned that he is afraid to go completely NC because of liability (he was her doctor....sigh....this has scared me from the start). I mean, if it is money she wants, fine--she can have all of it if she will leave us alone. I can't BELIEVE this! Now, she hasn't mentioned liability yet, but I can't imagine that it hasn't crossed her mind....

She has also "threatened" to call ME. Now, I have no problem with this, but H is rather worried....I'm not sure what she could tell me that I already do not know. Now here is the funny part--she wants to know if H has been sleeping with...ME. Am I the OW now??? ( I am his wife, for crying out loud! )

And if you remember from the beginning, physical intimacy between H and me used to be a problem....note I said "used to". It's much better now. And that's part of the good changes that have come from this process!

After saying all this, she calls us and tells H that "she has forgiven him" (???) and all is well. And that she will stop by his office to pick up a DVD of ours. H was FURIOUS--I think he wants NC, but he is afraid of getting sued.

This is starting...no, continuing to be a soap opera of the worst sort. Yes, I think my H is back--finally--but NOW WHAT?? I'm hoping that this is all because she is terribly hurt and is lashing out is all ways possible....but this is starting to become a pattern; lash out at H and then want to "make up". And I wonder who SHE has been talking to....in some ways, this also seems a bit rehearsed.

I have been trying to be charitable to OW. I'm now admitting that I can't be--all I feel towards her is RAGE. And disgust. The hard part will be controlling my tongue if she is so stupid as to call me...because I don't want to be in contact with her at all.

Ugh. Thanks for letting me vent.

You know what? Would you mind if I asked my FWS about this? I've mentioned that I'm talking to another BS, but we haven't discussed it in detail. I wonder if OW threatened to call me, etc. This might be withdrawal for an OW.

Unfortunately, OW did ask FWS for money at the end and that was the ultimate LB. FWS will bend over backwards to help people (right now he's trying to figure out how to get a friend into a house) and he knew all about OW's parents' money problems. But when she actually asked for a loan, that kinda sealed the fate on their A.

You might start counseling WS that he should go NC and let the cards fall where they may. You will support him through anything that might happen.

Perhaps you can ask WS who he thinks OW is. We were so lucky that our OW never said a word when FWS went NC. She actually went to work with one of FWS' friends and his friend has given no indication that she knows of the A. OW could have wreaked alot of havoc at his work, with his friendships, and with my family (one of my cousin's daughters worked for FWS), but we never heard a word.

You might be hearing the threats of someone who is about to be left, but if she has any kind of principles, she will realize that this is the best thing for her as well.

FWS was afraid to go NC because he thought OW would act out with other men. No one wants to hurt anyone else, but a responsible adult sometimes has to do what is necessary for him and his family.

You might develop a plan if OW calls you. My advice is to just hang up, but I'm not entirely sure if that is the best idea. Because WS is worried, she could probably say some very hurtful things. Before the A ended, I asked FWS for detailed sexual info about them, but he was smart to give me some circumstances and feelings, but not details. The OW could tell you alot of stuff you really don't want to hear.

Oh my! OW was very angry that FWS was telling me he loved me and we were sleeping together, too. I'm hoping your OW is in love and will come to her senses that going NC is better for everyone.

You know what? I've wanted to ask you about SF, but since you didn't mention it, I thought I'd just let it go. I'm so happy you guys are finding your way back in that area as well. You really are doing wonderfully!

BTW, I will write you. I was thinking of sending you my email as well, but I use it everywhere and I'm still worried about someone knowing us.

Please feel free to ask your FWS....this is such bizarre territory for me that I really feel I'm wandering in the dark. I have told H that no matter what happens, I would stand by him; he is reluctant to tell me about OW's rants because they usually involve blaming me...and I really could care less about that. Like you, I'm just hoping that this is just her way of venting her hurt and frustration, and heaven knows I would be very angry in her position too....but the anger would be mostly at myself. And maybe that is what this is.

There is really nothing she could say that I haven't imagined myself! And I have rehearsed a short speech to the effect of --don't do this, I don't want to talk to you--if she ever were to call. Whether I could restrain my anger is another issue...

I would love to hear from you, here or at my email...I have to admit, I set up a new account since my name is recognizable on my other accounts...

OW knows where I work--I suspect she threatened H with revealing "this" at the school where I work....and yes, it would be embarrassing ( you may not believe this, but I'm a very private person! I have never ever posted on a web site/chat site before this!), but I could deal with it.

I just want her out of our life. Period.

hi, not sure if I can be of help but I want to share a few stories from my past that my relate and give you some hope.

The relationship/affair my H had just before we reconciled was very difficult to end. We had been seperated and he wanted to get back together but was involved (living with) the OW. When he came back he was very very unwilling to hurt her. He felt a lot of guilt over what had happened and to some degree considered her an innocent. I gently tried to say she wasn't that she had fooled herself into thinking the kids and I weren't in the picture.

Anyway - their separation was slow and by degrees. Even when he moved back in she was emailing him and asking favours (she had been working with him and had been fired over their relationship) and he felt like he had to help her find a job. When he finally really distanced himself from her he used me as an excuse (thier contact hurt me and he didn't want that). I was okay with that but then. . . she started contacting me.

She was literally going through me to get messages to him. It sounds crazy but she was that desperate. She would think up strange requests that she really thought he could only help her with but she would call me "because she really didn't want to interfere".

This annoyed me and I rebuffed her, but he still gave her the benefit of the doubt. . .until she messed with us.

That is, her messages to him through me (example: could you please ask him this - I don't want to interfere besides I am already involved with a wonderful, handsome man). Was really: please tell him I have moved on so maybe he will be jealous and come back!

Became things she felt quilty and had to tell me - well the first time she really upset me - by telling me something intimate that had occured between them. He lost it. He phoned her and never worried about her feelings again. . . that was what it took to severe ties for him.

To be honest, I think the OW sometimes has already comprised her values so much she will do just about anything and if she can't win him back by cajoling or threats, the next is to go through you.

I do believe though that to some degree they are cowardly and like to remain hidden so really blowing it up when they are a willing participant and will make themselves look bad is a step they are not willing to take. (I have been on both sides so my judgement is pointing at myself as well - I had an EA while my husband had a PA)

The real point is you are getting fabulous support here and I hope it works out well for you.

Thanks for the responses....BTW, love the name, Eros and Psyche!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Seriously, your insight is very valuable; again, I never dreamed I would be in this situation, and to know how it happened with others is really informative--and helps me get my emotions in line.

It really is getting better....I'm hoping that my reaction is an OVERreaction to the mood swings of the OW. It's too easy for my mind to play tricks on me, and blow up a situation out of proportion. Having said that, I think I should adopt the motto of " be prepared", just in case!

Gotta go put the kids to bed! Thanks again!