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#447783 05/25/04 08:41 AM
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Read the book "Not Just Friends". It will be a REAL EYE OPENER! There is no such thing as "just friends" between a man and woman who have phone sex and tell each other I love you, in secret. How stupid does she think you are?

#447784 05/25/04 10:28 AM
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God, I just re-read my last post and did I go off on a tangent or what? Well I didn't chicken out on the test, but it came up negative. So I guess I will just have to wait and see. Thanks everyone for the advice.

#447785 05/25/04 10:53 AM
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Right now your H has the best of 2 worlds.He has a woman that tells him all he wants to hear,and he has a wife that is showing him how much she loves him and is willing to wait it out.
I can remember right after dday my H telling me to understand how he had to help the OW thru her pain of them ending the A.OMG what about me he has not been willing at all to help me he thinks that I need to just "Be over it".

Sure she may say they are friends but again I ask you does her H know of this friendship and how does he feel about his W having phone sex with OM??

I do believe that men and women can be friends but there is a fine line that must never be crossed and if you feel you can not obey these boundries it is time to end the friendship.The line has been crossed with these two and therefore they must end the friendship or it will turn into something more.

Do you and your H want to have a baby?? Do you think that would change things in your M for the good??
Sometimes when things are not going all that well the arrival of a new baby can make things worse,but sometimes it is just what you need to bring you close again.

I do feel for you and your pain of this,it is so very hard.Keep posting I know it helps it always did me,this site was my lifesaver for so long.

#447786 05/25/04 03:26 PM
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Hi Star
I know what your going through.My H been chatting with several women over the past 2 years and he did fly to OH to meet OW #2.I know it's heartbreaking to watch and extremely frustrating not knowing what he's telling her and what they are talking about and I'm sure your doing everything to make his world with you perfect because you hope he'll turn his head.I'm still liveing with the problem.The problem is my H not the internet,it's the choices my H has made.Somedays I just want to rip his computer apart,he doesn't let me or the children use it,he secures it when he leaves.What ever you do please stay in control of yourself as hurtful as it can be.My H sits and chats and plays love songs.I'm used to it now.I refuse to let him distroy me as a person.Like you I have no control of the choices my H has/is making and it's only going to torment you until you get some control and make choices for yourself.My H is leaving June 18 to go on a road trip and he'll be gone for 2-3 weeks.I know he's made arrangements to meet the OW#3.I haven't confrunted him with it because all he'll do is say "not this again" and "no I'm not having an affair".So why get into it when I'm going to hear all the same lines I've heard in the past.I would lay in bed at night and he'd be drinking and playing his music and chatting to OW until late then he'd come to bed and pick an argument with me, or give me dirty looks.I don't understand it either star but you have to think of your self and what you want for yourself.I know this is now what you want to hear and believe me if I could snap my fingers and make the pain go away this site wouldn't exsist.I have to go now but keep in touch.Stay strong and don't think about or compete against the OW.Desparation may take over and you may say or do something you'll regret later.I'm so sorry, I feel like crying for the both of us

#447787 05/25/04 04:13 PM
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Star...take a look at the thread "How can I help him to get offline?" In the "In recovery " section. People have posted some great ideas including a book to use instead of meds to help you out of depression (I have it on order). having been an internet chat addict and now a victim of my husbands addiction I understand u. Please hang in there.

#447788 05/25/04 04:43 PM
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eloquent
I sure hate to read all that you just wrote.I am so sorry for your pain.
When my H was having his internet A he did the exact same thing,sit in the back room with love music going drinking and chatting with OW.
Everytime I hear those songs today it sends me back to that time.

Are you doing anything to stop him from doing this??

#447789 05/27/04 06:50 PM
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eloquent...

it sounds like our H's are speaking the
same language. When I try to talk to him he
will say stuff like "don't start", "not
this again", or "I am not cheating".

He tells me they are just friends. She tells me the same thing. My repsonse is that when emotions and sexual tension combine it is more then friendship. I find it very hard to hate people, but I do hate the OW. I know she is not totally to blame for what is going on, but she does contribute. I have talked to her and i find myself liking her a bit. I wonder if we became friends if she would still have phone sex with my H. I think I will ask her that next time I speak to her. That should make her feel awkward.

Yes I am still hashing things out with the OW on the computer. I think it helps me that all those frustrations from the last two months are being directed at the OW directly. There are even things I like about her and if it wasn't for all this I think we might even have been friends. I think that is what contributed to the A. I liked the OW at first, before I found out my husband had feelings for her. I didn't mind that he had a friend who was a woman.

I will continue with Plan A and be the best friend and perfect wife with no complaint. I feel like slapping him sometimes and saying "hey I am right here. An actual person you can touch." Sometimes I think the best thing I can do is to leave him, but then he will do something that makes me feel like nothing is wrong and why would I want to leave such a great guy?

Ginger- I am not pregs, its a definite now. We talked about it and agree that right now would be a bad time since we can't afford kids.(and have no insurance for a bit. But if it does happen, then it happens. But no it is not something we are planning.

I think what we need is a vaction with just the two of us and no computer. That way we can recapture us. Unfortunatly, a vacation is gonna have to wait until after the bankruptacy and the bills are back on track. We can barely afford McDonalds right now let alone a hotel.

I know its coming...with so much bad stuff that has happened something good has to happen soon. Keep your fingers crossed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#447790 05/28/04 04:40 PM
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Star
I am a romantic at heart and there are lots of things you can do without it costing alot of money.Take a walk hand in hand,go on a picnic,rent a movie and curl up on the sofa with popcorn,how about a candle light dinner on the living room floor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wow that is easier to write than to do LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I know that in the middle of this mess to add extra burdens such as finacial ones really does not make the situation easier.10m after dday my H's union went on strike it happened right before my bday,the year before he was involved with the OW and forgot my bday so this past yr to have the strike going on really did not help.The strike lasted for 5m and believe me during that time things were so very hard.

Things are still hard for me because of the way my H has handled all of this but I made a choice NOT to be his door mat and I let him know this.You can do a great plan A but please do not become his door mat.
I really fear by some of your post that you may end up doing this,what he is doing is wrong and he must stop it now if he wants your M to work.

Keep posting I know in the early days for me this site is what helped me make it thru each day.
Take care.

#447791 05/29/04 07:45 AM
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Don't get me wrong, things are better between us. Money is extremly tight right now. Since my last post my H has quit the new job and is going back to the one he is on medical leave from. That is no prob for me. He was concerned I would be mad at him for quiting. He left me tons of phone and email messages at work before finally calling me at my job. He had a back up plan. He made sure he could go back to the old job first and he spoke to his doctor about upping his allowed hours he can work. At the end of the month he will be back at full work duty.

He got his first paycheck too. It was so nice to see that money. Then I got a call from his dad's boss asking me to give my father-in-law the message to call her, she would really like him to give her two weeks to find someone else. Turns out he quit his job yesterday. He plans to go on disability, but that won't kick in for another 5 months after he files. He does get a check from the navy every month, so we are not completely without his income. What gets me about all this was we moved in with him so we could get our finances back on track. We weren't suppose to pay rent. We were just suppose to concentrate on the bills. Now we are at the point where we are scraping to get the bankruptacy lawyer money so we can file the papers so we have a court date and floating his dad money to pay the mortgage, power, phone, food, and etc. Nice how this all worked out, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

The good news is that my father retires within the year and they are talking about moving down here. It will be great to have someone here I can talk to. As much as I wouldn't have expected it, my mother and I have become closer since we moved. I think we have resolved our past mother/daughter issues.---Could I have inadvertainly down a Plan B with my mother? LOL.

I know about all those cheap things we can do to be romantic. We do them. I just really want to get away and relax. I want to go on a cruise. I want sandy white beaches. Its no fair that the little seven year olds I tutor tell me about the cruises they have gone on with their parents. My husband knows how bad I want to get away. I think he feels bad about it. I had it all figured out how we could afford it. I had a savings plan in my head. Now, however, we are back to square one. I can understand my father-in-law's reasons for quiting. I just wish he had waited a little longer.

In the meantime I will continue to post and dream of pina coladas on the beaches. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ May 29, 2004, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: starshattered ]</small>

#447792 05/29/04 10:59 AM
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First let me say that there is a strange thing with mothers and daughters they seem to clash when the daughter is in her teens but when she becomes a married woman you now have things in common and you begin to bond,if you think your relationship is close now wait until you have a baby.My oldest daughter and I did not have a great relationship during her teen yrs but now we are best of friends and it is so much fun.

I understand about getting away,and you will.I feel at times I have lived my whole life waiting until we could afford to live.You see we were married when we were just 16 and 17yrs old and life has been a struggle.We have had so much stuff thrown our way that anything any one writes about money just does not shock me.
Try and be patient in this area even tho it is hard.I know money is tight but how about doing an over night trip to a motel.What difference will it make?? If you and your H are happy together it will make these hard times easier for you.
I heard a finacial councler speak one time and he said it is important to do something for your self during tough times to make it thru,I never understood that I thought how if you cant pay your bills?? Well I am not suggesting that you dont pay your bills but if 100$ will not solve all your finacial problems then it wont make a difference if you spend it on you and your H.It may save your marriage.

You do sound stronger and this is good.
Is your H happier now that he is going back to his old job??
Is he still chatting w/OW or has that slowed down also??

Take care have a nice weekend talk to you soon.

#447793 05/29/04 01:32 PM
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Ginger-

My husband left the new job mainly cause it was bringing him down(it involved sales and rejection 70% of the time). He was making him self sick thinking about going in to work. He is happy about going back to his old job, the best part being they will start to pay the medical bills again.

Here is the weird thing about the OW. I just got an RPG game that I love. I don't usually like computer games, but this one seemed interesting to me. My husband tried it and loves it just as much. The OW also plays the game, but when she is on is the same time I am on. Therefore, he is not really alone with her. Her H is also going to start playing. I don't know if he will play on the same server as we do. He has friends on another server of the game.

I think I prob talk to her just as much as he does. Though I admit when he is not around I don't always say the most complemetary things to her. And I find my character out of range a lot when she needs help. Hmmmm...wonder why? Is that awful of me?

My H was really concerned about the OW playing the game. This is how I ended up speaking to her. She wanted to make sure that I would be okay with it. I think this is the best arrangement cause I know what is going on. He has been coming to bed relatively early and has been attentive. There are still nights however...

As far as going away...I have a friend who can get us a suite comp'd at the hotel she works at, but my husband wanted to save up some money to spend on food and going out. Then we needed to figure out when we could go. It will have to be pushed back indefinitly.

He plays in a pool league that is 1st is their district. They have states in two weeks and if they win the team goes to the nationals in vegas. If this happens I get to go with him. That will be my vacation. This will only be a weekend. Which will be great, but not really the kind of vacation I was thinking about.

My mother, father, and sister will also be coming to visit in August. This kinda means that every weekend I have off is already booked. And he can't request off anymore cause of the pool team. I am not complaining about this. I thank God for the pool team. I think that is one of the few things that kept him sane when he was out of work, knowing he could play a game or two a week.

Who knows, if they end up going to Vegas I might hit it big on a slot machine and we can tell the lawyer to take a hike. Then I can buy a beach in the sun to drink pina coladas on.

#447794 05/30/04 05:42 PM
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Do you mind me asking where you live??

I do not live far from Vegas and H and I went there a few months ago and we had a good time.
There is a lot to do there that is free.Lots of shows and you can sit in the different bars and listen to music and dance.

It does sound like things are getting better the only thing is to remember she is the OW and NOT your friend.
I talked to OW several times and like you we got along,I found myself liking her.When I talked to her I forget she is the one my H slept with.She on the other hand said that it is hard for her to talk to me because of what she did.
I did finally after about a yr or so began to have bad feelings about her.I hate to say that I hate her but I hate what she did to me.I had to tell myself that she did not care about me or she would not have done what she did.Please use caution when you talk with her.

You are young and to put things off probably does not seem like a big deal,let me tell you this.Try and do what you can today,you do not know what tomorrow will bring and you dont want to say "If only I had done this or that".
I am in my 40's and think now "How I wish I would have done this when I was in my 20's or 30's" something always came up.

The one thing that bothers me most right now about my H is him not taking advantage of every minute that we have together.After dday we promised that we would spend each day like it was our last,I still want that but with him it only lasted for a few months.I get angry at the time he waste that we could have been doing things together.

Stay strong.

#447795 05/31/04 05:48 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by starshattered:
<strong> I don't know how strong I can be. I feel like I should tell him to make a decision: me or her. He has told me that he will not leave me. He has said if it wasn't her then it would be somebody else. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The last statement is the most telling. You are dealing with two issues: he has an internet addiction and needs to break it, just like any other addiction it is not a healthy thing. And it is very hard to break free. And like any addict, until he comes to see it's causing real problems in his life, he will be angry and resistant to any suggestion he ease off it.

The second issue is the root of the addiction - he is getting no-strings attached affection and admiration from his internet partners. It is heady stuff, all the good with none of the difficulties of a "real" relationship. The fact that he has said he is not willing to give it up, and would just substitute one partner for another screams his problem loud and clear.

What you do kind of depends on the kind of life you want. In my relationship, it took the third full blown internet affair for me to draw my line in the sand and say I would not live in that style of relationship any longer. He had read Caught In The Net, recognized he had a problem, but really had no reason to give up the addiction. When it came down to the choice of the addiction or our relationship, he chose our relationship.

It hasn't been easy - probably harder for him than me. I have had to learn to meet the needs he was getting met by the internet women, behaviors that weren't easy for me. But he gave up his addiction, and had to make some big changes in how he saw life.

You can fix your marriage, but honestly, I don't see you headed in that direction. I see you wanting so desperately to bury the problem rather than resolving it. Going on vacation isn't going to help anything. I had terrific vacations and incredible sex during my H's four years of internet affairs. He has to see a problem and want to change it. And he doesn't see there's a problem.

#447796 06/01/04 11:46 PM
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****Ginger- here is the ironic part of where we live...the family vacation capital of America. One hour outside of Disney World. Florida. We use to live in Jersey. My husband can't stand tourists cause he grew up on the Jersey shore and had to put up with the rich new yorkers who would take over the town every summer. Because of this we hardly ever went to new york or the beach. Even now he doesn't want to go to Universal or Disney because of the crowds on the weekends.

I know a vaction is not going to solve any problems. I just want to be able to relax and not worry about anything. It seems like I have spent my whole life worrying about something.

I came to a weird realization the other night and it had me thinking about that whole Nature vs. Nurture argument. Here is the chain of events for my family:

1. Great-grandfather in love with his brother's wife. Great-grandmom won't divorce him. They carried on the affair until GGM dies and then they got married.

2. Grandfather had mistress. Mom's highschool guidance counselor. Grandparents divorce and Grandfather "adopts" a 20 year old woman who has a kid named after him. Hmmm....

3. Father in love with co-worker and then my best friend's mother. He ended the affairs on own and still with mother.

4. Husband having phone sex with internet women for past two years. In love with internet friend three months ago. "Just friends now." Getting better.

Can you see a trend? And this is just my maternal side of the family. I don't know that anything like this has happened on my dad's side. I know it sounds far out there, but it makes me wonder if the women in my family are just predestined to heart break. Or is it something in us that makes us choose men who will emotionaly hurt us? Have I been preconditioned from my mother somehow?


Before anyone flames me saying how silly this all is, I know. It is just weird that there is this pattern. My sister is having trouble with her relationships as well. But she is still a teen so that is all normal.

Sorry I am ill today with a head cold and just ranting a bit. I know the OW is not my friend and unlikely ever to be one, but I just love the fact that her H has been playing the game with us. When I am not on he is. It has put a damper on anything that may be going on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: starshattered ]</small>

#447797 06/01/04 04:09 PM
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You know the old saying "You marry someone just like your dad" Well think about it,if it is true then what you just said makes perfect sense.
Here is the thing,the cycle must be broken or it will continue for generations.

My H has a family history of cheating also,as for my side of the family,my dad never cheated as far as I know but he was the BIGGEST flirt I have ever known.He did this in front of us kids,in front of my mother only making her self esteem issues that much more.

Wow everyone I chat w/on this form seems to be from across the country LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

No a vacation wont solve your problems but the truth is we all need one theres nothing wrong with that but like the last poster wrote,make sure you are not trying to push under the rug the real issues in your M.This is what my H wants to do and I am fighting him on it,I want to resolve the problems so another A does not happen problem is I am almost out of fight and dont really know what will happen.

Hope you feel better soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

#447798 06/02/04 11:04 PM
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My H and OW had a fight last night. Hmm...been down this road before. Last time they had a fight they stoped speaking to each other for a month. The OW contacted him first at the end of their brief departure from each other. That is when this whole "friends" thing started.

I think the phone sex might have stoped. OW's H has been playing the game just as late as they have. Also since my father-in-law is no longer working he is up at almost all hours. He use to work from 1am-7am. There is no oppertunity for my H to carry on like he did. This may be part of the tension between the two.

When my husband came to bed I asked him what was going on. He said they had a disagreement that ended with them agreeing to disagree. He apologized for being on the phone so late. Since he knows I am not feelign good he held me all night after that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Maybe this time if they stop speaking to each other, they will keep it that way. Last time he called the OW selfish and self centered. Maybe he is finally realizing she hasn't changed much.

#447799 06/02/04 03:40 PM
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Ok this maybe good.I still think they need to have NO contact at all.This would be the best for all of you.

You seem to be doing a good job of plan A however have you made it clear to him that you wish for NC between them.I do not think his friendship w/this woman can be healthy for your relationship.

I am glad he held you all night,I'm sure that is just what you needed.

#447800 06/07/04 08:18 AM
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Just wondering about you,have not seen you in days everything ok??

#447801 06/07/04 12:19 PM
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ginger-

i haven't had a chance to log on lately. Usually I do it at work, but i have been off.

I wrote a nasty letter to the OW telling her to stop the phone sex. We are currently hashing things out.

SHe still insists that they are just friends.

I don't know what to do. My H has been attentive this weekend. But I still feel lost.

Am I strong for staying with him and trying to keep our marriage together or am I weak for not leaving him?

My H doesn't know about the letter. If he did he would flip and I could prob say goodbye to my marriage.

She says she will stop the phone sex if she can tell him why. That I asked her to. But if she does that then he will know I have been talking to her. It is funny. He has this whole big thing about people betraying his trust, but hasn't he betrayed mine?

#447802 06/07/04 04:49 PM
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You did the right thing by sending the letter.
You are not weak for wanting to save your M.
She is weak for doing what she is doing.

Do not give your H so much credit,I thought if I did anything that would rock the boat mine would be gone,he use to tell me if I did this or that I would push him back into her arms but guess what he is still here.

Keep posting,not sure that I help but it is nice to know your not alone

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