Ok, I was all set to go to Plan B. Had my Plan B letter typed out and everything. Then she comes home and tells me that her feelings for OM have dwindled(sp?) to almost nothing. UGH!!! How dare she? So now what? I have not gone to Plan B yet. The talk we had that night (this was 2 nights ago, when I was going to give her my Plan B letter) was very, very, long; and actually very constructive. I doubt she has completely cut off contact with OM because I don't want to pressure her right now. BTW, this brings another reason for the delay. She has told me that the OM just isn't making any love band deposits (not her words, but the general idea) and she is slowly letting him slip away. My question is, should I continue on to Plan B anyway? I have read that I should not go to Plan B until my love bank balance is very low, and right now I don't feel myself having any hateful feelings for her. Should I take advantage of the OM's lack of attention to her and make as many deposits as I can as quickly as I can? I do feel I could Plan A for a while longer before losing my love for her. Also, since I have moved out (per mutual decision) she has fallen behind in her bills (rent). I have been supporting her and the boys financially, but I cannot pay her rent and mine as well. I am just not THAT well off. Not much I could do about it either way, but I do feel I should be there for her. I can find her a place to stay that I could afford. So many questions, so few brain cells. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Her own sister thinks I should just give up on her, but I don't think I'm ready to do that just yet. Besides, she's 17, so doesn't she know everything? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am thinking of keeping Plan A going for a short while longer. What do you guys think? What do the wise ones say? Other opinions would be VERY appreciated? To B, or not to B. That is my question.

<small>[ September 15, 2002, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: madly_truly_deeply ]</small>

There sure is a lot of advice...If I was in your situation and I wanted to continue working on the relationship, I would be buying table dances at the local strip club using her credit card...It may not save the relationship, but at least I would have some fun and have some great locker room conversation topics...

UHM....thanks for the uh,...advice deeds. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

^

Sounds more like she is throwing you a bone to keep you interested in her rather than a willingness on her part to change her ways and rebuild the marriage. Your posts doesn't even say that she wants to end contact with OM and rebuild the marriage. The story about her father's illness may or may not be true, but it should not be a factor in your decision of whether you should go into plan B or not. Your eagerness to return to her may be setting you up for a steep downhill turn on the emotional rollercoaster if she is lying to you about her feelings for OM and if that is the case, your love bank will be seriously depleted.

One reason for going into plan B is to preserve the remaining love you have for her in the eventuality that she demonstrates a genuine willingness to rebuild the M. If your love bank at that moment in time is too low, then you may not have enough emotional energy to want to rebuild the M. You will be so emotionally drained that the tendency to divorce her will be greater than the desire to work on rebuilding M. Don't kid yourself that recovery will be a piece of cake, it will probably be more difficult than dealing with your WW's fog and continued contact with OM. If you don't beleive me, just ask any of the folks on the recovery board whether it was easy for them to work on their marital recovery.

So think about what I said before you decide to go back to her.

Hey MTD....
Ok, somewhat anxiously I'll tell you what I think. I would also highly encourage you to call the radio show tomorrow (monday) and talk to Dr. H. I think he'll suggest the same sorts of things I will, but hey, if not.... I'd go with him. Unless you really feel like he didn't get the picture, but I doubt it. The number is just a click away on the radio link above. 1pm CT, call at the top of the hour, so you're sure to get in.

Then she comes home and tells me that her feelings for OM have dwindled(sp?) to almost nothing. UGH!!! How dare she?

Really, what is with this woman, ya go to all the work to do a Plan B and now she thinks the A might end. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I doubt she has completely cut off contact with OM because I don't want to pressure her right now.

I don't know that I would "pressure" her either. That could be seen as demand. What you can and should do, it tell her how much it hurts you when she has contact with him. Factual, not judgemental. So it's, "I feel ______when you see OM."

NOT, "You're so selfish and don't care how much it hurts me..." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

She just found out her fater in Alabama has some very seriouse health problems and I'm afraid going to Plan B right now may seem like I am abandoning her.

Yes, it would. And this is a great opportunity to rack up points.

She has told me that the OM just isn't making any love band deposits (not her words, but the general idea) and she is slowly letting him slip away. My question is, should I continue on to Plan B anyway?

I would stay with Plan A, but really add the honesty level. How well do you know her needs? Has she indicated what it is that OM does for her that you were not?

I have read that I should not go to Plan B until my love bank balance is very low, and right now I don't feel myself having any hateful feelings for her.

I think that answers your question. She's rethinking the A, and you have the energy. Do you have a good Plan A plan? Would you like help with one?

Should I take advantage of the OM's lack of attention to her and make as many deposits as I can as quickly as I can? I do feel I could Plan A for a while longer before losing my love for her.

YES!!!!!

I can find her a place to stay that I could afford. So many questions, so few brain cells.

Did you ever read Agatha Christie? Detective Poirot always talked about the "grey matter." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway, this is what I would ask Harley. My first instinct is to say move back home. But I need to think on that a bit. There' pros for ending the affair and cons in terms of recovery. Ask me again, after it ferments in my grey matter.

Her own sister thinks I should just give up on her, but I don't think I'm ready to do that just yet. Besides, she's 17, so doesn't she know everything?

Yeah, taking advice from a 17yo girl probably isn't your best bet!! LOL

I am thinking of keeping Plan A going for a short while longer.

If you have the energy and the will to do it, given where the A is, I think it's an excellent idea. But I also think you need to have a really well put together Plan A, not a shotgun approach but focused and detailed.

To B, or not to B. That is my question.

Very cute!

Hope that helps. I'll check here over the next couple days if you like. Just let me know what questions you have.

C

Thank you Cerri:). You're great. You're H is lucky to have such a wise woman at his side(can you tell I'm kissing up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). First, I would love some more thoughts on how to work a good plan A. I'm doing my best, but I feel like I keep mucking it up. As for the EN's that OM is meeting, we have talked about it but she can't seem to identify what he does (or just won't tell me about it). She says "he just has a way of talking to me that makes me feel really good about myself." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I suppose "Ilove you now more than ever" and "I really want you to be part of my/our life forever" were'nt enough for her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Anyway, thanks Cerri, you've been a great help. Hope to hear again on your Plan A ideas. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> By the way, just reread my post and my spelling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , I am quite ashamed. Sorry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi MTD...

Did I ever tell you I really like the name? Is it after the song by KC and Jojo? That was our first "our song."

[bThank you Cerri:). You're great. You're H is lucky to have such a wise woman at his side(can you tell I'm kissing up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). [/b]

As I tell my children all the time.... flattery will get you everywhere!! LOL

First, I would love some more thoughts on how to work a good plan A. I'm doing my best, but I feel like I keep mucking it up.

Can you give me a list of what you have been doing? As detailed as possible?

Also, talk to me about any LBers that she has identified as being a problem. It doesn't do a whole lot of good to be meeting needs and making deposits if you're spending them away at the same time..... A description that sounds sadly like my checkbook!!

As for the EN's that OM is meeting, we have talked about it but she can't seem to identify what he does (or just won't tell me about it). She says "he just has a way of talking to me that makes me feel really good about myself."

Oh yeah.... this I get. Ok, so we're definitely going to put conversation close to the top of the list. AND we're going to note that it is full of friends of good conversation, and lacking enemies of conversation.

Are you ready for homework???

I suppose "Ilove you now more than ever" and "I really want you to be part of my/our life forever" were'nt enough for her.

Nope. That actually goes under the heading of affection. Which I suspect she has a need for as well, most women do. So it goes on the default list until proven otherwise.

But here's the touchy thing about women and affection. As much as they may need it, it's a very intimate need. So if she's not feeling connected to you, then you have to do it gradually and in a way that does not feel intrusive to her. Pouring it on too strongly can feel like someone standing too close. It's uncomfortable. So, we'll start with little non-threatening gestures.

Am I right in thinking you don't have children? How are you handling finances? It seems you are still supporting her in some way? Does she respond to admiration?

Take a look at the ENq... or at the very least the list of EN's and give me your best guess as to what her top 6 would be.

Ok, so list of EN's, list of LBers (yours), list of what you've been doing, and then we have a place to start.

By the way, just reread my post and my spelling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , I am quite ashamed. Sorry.

My kids call me the spelling and grammar police. But with long nails and a notebook keyboard, the typos just seem to have take on a life of their own. I just blame it on the blonde thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

C

Hi, Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Sorry I've been away. Here is the info you wanted. As for my name, yes it is. Very good, you're the first person to notice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> As for Plan A, I've just gone back to the basics, the things I did when we first got married; buying cards and flowers ets., taking walks in the park, going to see a movie, and waiting on her pretty much hand and foot. The only LB's I can see are that I have a tendancy to dwell on the R's with the OM, especially OM#1 who was a good "friend" of mine. And yes, I believe my LB deposit/withdraw ratio is much better than my checkbook also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Yes, I know conversation is a big one for her, but the content of the conversation is a tough one to crack. She won't go into what they talk about. I know he says things to her that make her feel absolutely wonderful, but I have no idea WHAT. Also, as it turns out, while conversation is very high on her EN's list, it is very low on mine so I am having a difficult time adapting to this. Going to back and check out the compatability section after I post this. Yes, I am SO ready for some homework <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Her EN's as best I can see (she won't do the quest., she thinkst they are silly) are (no particular order) conversation, affection, admiration would be the biggest ones (her self-esteem is VERY low). The biggest LB's would be my talking about OM's, I have a tendancy to interrupt her when talking, and a few bad habits that have greatly improved in the last few weeks. This is all I can think of so far (like I said, so few brain cells), but I will let you know if anything important pops in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Thanks again Cerri, you are terrific. (sucking up again) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

]Hi, Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi!!
As for my name, yes it is. Very good, you're the first person to notice.

I have one of those weird memories. Like an encyclopedia, but don't ask me where my shoes or car keys are, cuz I have no idea!!

As for Plan A, I've just gone back to the basics, the things I did when we first got married; buying cards and flowers ets., taking walks in the park, going to see a movie, and waiting on her pretty much hand and foot.

Ok, so we need some definite actions that you will do on a regular basis, and a ckecklist to keep you on track.

The only LB's I can see are that I have a tendancy to dwell on the R's with the OM, especially OM#1 who was a good "friend" of mine.

Bringing up anything that's in the past, like OM1 is off limits. Well, unless there is still contact. Is there?

Dwelling on mistakes of the past is a big LBer. It could be considered and AO, in terms of it being punishing. If the action is truly in the past, (unlike an ongoing A) then the only way you can bring it up in the present is to negotiate for change. When we talk specifics, we'll talk about how that works.

Yes, I know conversation is a big one for her, but the content of the conversation is a tough one to crack. She won't go into what they talk about. I know he says things to her that make her feel absolutely wonderful, but I have no idea WHAT.

It's not just the "what" it's the "how" as well. And we can work on that. I would suggest that if you have some time today that you tune into Oprah... is she still on?.... and take notes on how she talks to her guests. Note the eye contact, the engagement, the participation and the being present entirely with the other person. This is your first assignment. Report back to me what you see.

Going to back and check out the compatability section after I post this.

There's a compatibilty section??

Her EN's as best I can see (she won't do the quest., she thinkst they are silly) are (no particular order) conversation, affection, admiration would be the biggest ones (her self-esteem is VERY low).

Those are common for women. How do you know her SE is low?

The biggest LB's would be my talking about OM's, I have a tendancy to interrupt her when talking, and a few bad habits that have greatly improved in the last few weeks.

Do the conversation assignment, and let me think about putting some other ideas together. How much time are you spending with each other having fun? That's going to be next on the list.

Later..... I'll post back with some more detailed thoughts tonight or tomorrow.

C

I have one of those weird memories. Like an encyclopedia, but don't ask me where my shoes or car keys are, cuz I have no idea!!

Are you kidding, it took me 40 mins to find my toothbrush this morniing!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Ok, so we need some definite actions that you will do on a regular basis, and a ckecklist to keep you on track.

You mean other something other than what I'm doing? A checlist...I can do that.

Yes, I know talking about OM's is a big LB. I am actually getting quite better about that one, mostly because she is more open with me about them. I never ask for the "gory details". When we do talk about them, I ask only about her feelings; before and after and what she was thinking about...that kind of thing. Like I said she is very open and I never get angry during these any more. As for OM#1, there was accidental contact when he came by me house. You see, he wasn't aware that I knew about the A's. Needless to say, he left VERY quickly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yes, I did my "homework" Mrs. Cerri, I watched Ophra. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I did learn something. I am a horrible conversationalist. I never realized it before. As I said, conversation is at the bottom of my list of EN's, so I never really thought it important to build my skills in this area. I'm a good talker, but I don't listen for kaka. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

By the way, she's always had a low self-esteem. She's built up a tough exterior over the years, but in her heart she is very insecure about herself. Fall into her admiration EN maybe?

Anxiously awaiting your wisdom oh great one (there I go again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

Ya'll have this sad but true picture of me never moving from computer and not sleeping doncha??? LOL

Are you kidding, it took me 40 mins to find my toothbrush this morniing!!

Well, I was going to say that I never lose my toothbrush, but then I remembered that one time, and that other time and then the time that........................


You mean other something other than what I'm doing? A checlist...I can do that.

Yep, and tomorrow, I'll have some concrete things to put on it. Tonight my brain is mush from finally finishing my web site, meeting with the program director for a family continuing ed organization about teaching some relationship classes, and most of all from watching two kids' football games..... ewwwwwww.

Yes, I know talking about OM's is a big LB. I am actually getting quite better about that one, mostly because she is more open with me about them. I never ask for the "gory details". When we do talk about them, I ask only about her feelings; before and after and what she was thinking about...that kind of thing. Like I said she is very open and I never get angry during these any more.

But she is still seeing him.... them..... right? And you are not living together but she spends time at your house? No kids?

As for OM#1, there was accidental contact when he came by me house. You see, he wasn't aware that I knew about the A's. Needless to say, he left VERY quickly.

Is she still seeing him too?

Yes, I did my "homework" Mrs. Cerri, I watched Ophra.

Good job!!!!! Oh and that would be Ms. Cerri <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I haven't entirely abandoned by xtreme feminsit ways... LOL

Write this down, it will go on your plan that we'll talk about tomorrow, but you can think about it now. Watch again, maybe a couple days over the next week. Write down phrases that she uses that show interest, engagement, attention, and that keep the conversation moving. Also, any other conversational techniques that you observe as showing the other person that they are interesting and heard. Be as specific as possible. See how many you can come up with... post the list here.

I did learn something. I am a horrible conversationalist. I never realized it before.

Excellent!!! Having awareness is the essential first step in making changes. While we're at it, read the link here about conversation re: WH. I think there's also a link to learning how to meet that need. Read that also. Add to your Oprah list things that you find are particularly fitting for you.

Conversation

As I said, conversation is at the bottom of my list of EN's, so I never really thought it important to build my skills in this area.

Well then my young Jedi, it is time we turned our attention to that matter...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

By the way, she's always had a low self-esteem. She's built up a tough exterior over the years, but in her heart she is very insecure about herself.

You didn't answer my question of how you know this?

Fall into her admiration EN maybe?

Quite possibly, but even those with healthy SE can have a need for Adm.

b]Anxiously awaiting your wisdom oh great one (there I go again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).[/b]

It would be more likely to go to my head if I didn't have teenagers who delight in letting me know that I'm an idiot and know nothing about anything!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Well, that and the fact that I can't find my new house keys.... sigh.......

Back in the morning to talk about honesty, infidelity, and affection. There's a combination!

C

No, I guess the other link is just to an ad for HN/HN. BTW, which if any of the Harley books do you have?

Let me know before I post a bunch of stuff I could just as easily have you read by referencing the page numbers!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Night.....

C

Ok, I'm awake now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Here's what I suggest you do, and report back to me on Tuesday.

1. Watch at least 2 more interviewing type shows. Write down phrases that keep the conversation going, show engagement and participation.
Write down other things the interviewer does to let the other person know that what she/he is saying is important and heard... body language, eye contact, etc.
I would not reccomend late night shows like Letterman or what's his name... oh yeah Leno... they are very bad conversationalists, tend to interrupt and blow off their guests.

2. If you do not have any Harley books, order one. My number one suggestion is SAA. If you call the radio show, they'll send you one for free.

3. Read anything you can find on affection, honesty and infidelity here on this site. Use the search feature.

4. List some things you can do every day that you think will meet her need for affection. Detailed: what, how often, when

5. Think about what your deadline for Plan A is going to be

6. Fill me in on the status with OM... she was backing off a bit?

7. Maintain the status quo for the weekend if you can. No RT's, no LBers, be as pleasant as possible. We need to talk about honesty in terms of when your spouse in having an affair. We'll do that next week.

I see that you have 3 boys. I guess that's the very best reason to do everything we can. I'm leaning towards a short Plan A unless there are radical changes soon.

Remember, Plan A will not repair or restore your marriage as long as there is contact with the OM. It will only show that you can and will do what needs to be done. When the A ends, the most vulnerable part of the process begins and that is getting a commitment to recovery.

Go back and read my first post to you on this thread. It has some valuable MB info.

C <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Cerri. Sorry it took so long to get back. Been busy. Here is my update for the weekend.

1. Watch at least 2 more interviewing type shows. Write down phrases that keep the conversation going, show engagement and participation.
Write down other things the interviewer does to let the other person know that what she/he is saying is important and heard... body language, eye contact, etc.
I would not reccomend late night shows like Letterman or what's his name... oh yeah Leno... they are very bad conversationalists, tend to interrupt and blow off their guests. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Watching 'till my eyeballs bleed. Watching everything from Oprah, Montell, to Goodmorning America (the interviews), 60 minutes and even Larry King:eek:

2. If you do not have any Harley books, order one. My number one suggestion is SAA. If you call the radio show, they'll send you one for free. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not have any of the Harley's books, but I will go buy SAA tomorrow.

3. Read anything you can find on affection, honesty and infidelity here on this site. Use the search feature.

Reading, reading, and rereading oh wise one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

4. List some things you can do every day that you think will meet her need for affection. Detailed: what, how often, when

Ok, things I can do, or did/will do? I'm not very creative, so the list may be short. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

5. Think about what your deadline for Plan A is going to be

Deadline??? I've never considered it. I thought I should just go until my lovebank was getting to low and I was making lots of LB's.

6. Fill me in on the status with OM... she was backing off a bit?

OM #1 is out of picture. OM#2 is occasional contact because he hangs out where she works <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> A is over though. OM#3 is a different story. It is no longer a PA, but she still talks/sees him frequently. He also hangs out where she works. She will not quit her job or commit to NC with OM#3 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

7. Maintain the status quo for the weekend if you can. No RT's, no LBers, be as pleasant as possible. We need to talk about honesty in terms of when your spouse in having an affair. We'll do that next week.

Ok, no LB's that I know of. What's an RT? Last night was wild. While we were out on "date", we were leaving a resteraunt and actually saw a man hit by a car (he'll be ok). We were first to him and she helped him a great deal (she is a licensed CNA, why she doesn't do this instead of waitressing is beyond me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )

I see that you have 3 boys. I guess that's the very best reason to do everything we can. I'm leaning towards a short Plan A unless there are radical changes soon.

Yes, 3 beautiful boys. They are my life now. Keeping focused on them has really helped me keep my sanity through this. What do you mean "radical changes"?? How short of a Plan A?? As always, thanks again Cerri, this means a great deal to me.

BTW, I am still trying to figure out all these dkdksl buttons, so if any of my posting is mucked up, I'm sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . And my grammer and spelling skills are really not this horrible in RL, my typing skills are just THAT bad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Ok, now I am REALLY P'ed!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> She just called as I was posting a moment ago to see if she could go out Friday night, if I would watch the kids when I get off, or ask my mother to watch them so she could go out with "friends". These are the same "friends" that encouraged her to go ahead with A's, cuz "it makes you happy, doesn't it?". AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! She told me, "if you let me go out Friday night, then on Sat. night, I will try and get off early so WE can go out". I'm sorry, when did "Let's Make a Deal" come back on the air?? Do I look like Monty Hall?? Please, not even Monty Python would touch that one!!!!

Another question Cerri regarding OM's#1+3, and opening door on A's. Right now, both of our family's know about A's. Her parents are REALLY P'd at her right now. The OMs' familys' don't know right now. OM#3 is married, and as I said, OM#1 was a good friend of mine whose good, CHRISTIAN, mother had me over to dinner a couple times. Should I tell their families? Should I tell OM#3's wife? Should I tell my former friends mother? She would probably through him out of her house <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Can you hear that? That's the sound of me NOT CARING!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Also, she said OM#3 is in a M that is all but over. But these are his words to her and the story has changed several times. From "they never speak to eachother, EVER!" to "they are still civil because of the situation" to "they do go out once in a while as friends" and finally to "well they still have sex every now and then". Hmm, sounds like a buch of kaka to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> According to what he tells her the only reason they are not D'd yet is he owns a house in Virgin Islands he wants to sell before D. He doesn't want her to "get the house". Florida is a no fault state, doesn't that mean that a judge would order the house sold and then split the earnings when it is done. They have no kids together. Also, I believe he owned the house before they were married, so why is he worried? Hmm, more kaka me thinks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Sorry for the rant, that phone call just P'd me off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ September 15, 2002, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: madly_truly_deeply ]</small>

Morning!!!! (Did I mention I'm one of those really odd people who like Mondays? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Watching 'till my eyeballs bleed. Watching everything from Oprah, Montell, to Goodmorning America (the interviews), 60 minutes and even Larry King

Excellent! Then you should have a good list of phrases and techniques for me!

I do not have any of the Harley's books, but I will go buy SAA tomorrow.

Tell me when you have it.

Reading, reading, and rereading oh wise one

Good, talk to me about the things you are learning. What especially pops out at you?

C: 4. List some things you can do every day that you think will meet her need for affection. Detailed: what, how often, when

MTD: Ok, things I can do, or did/will do? I'm not very creative, so the list may be short.

Post list here: _______ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Deadline??? I've never considered it. I thought I should just go until my lovebank was getting to low and I was making lots of LB's.

Nope, all the best plans have a goal and a deadline. If you go til your LBnk is totally trashed then when the A ends, YOU will be the one not wanting to reconcile. And that would be a tragedy. We'll set a deadline, and when that time comes we can reevaluate how you are feeling and what your energy level is, and decide how to proceed at that point..... more Plan A or go to Plan B.

OM #1 is out of picture. OM#2 is occasional contact because he hangs out where she works <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> A is over though. OM#3 is a different story. It is no longer a PA, but she still talks/sees him frequently. He also hangs out where she works. She will not quit her job or commit to NC with OM#3

Ok, here's my opinion on this whole affair thing. As the BS we tend to get caught up in ending the A, and then think that things will heal themselves. But as you will see as you read through SAA, that's just not the case. IMO, the MOST vulnerable time is when the A ends.

At that point, you, as the BS, really need to insist on the conditionns for recovery before resuming the relationship. Otherwise, the risk of another A is very great.... as you know by the fact that she is now on #3.

One of the conditions of recovery is that the circumstances that led to the affair(s) be eliminated. That includes LBers, neglect of needs, AND things like her job where she meets and gets to know these men. That condition must be removed, or there is no chance of real recovery.

For my H, part of it was having a job that required travel. He is a senior level engineere in the manufacturing field. When he travelled he paid for sex, lots of it. Strippers, hookers, did the porn thing online at work. One of the things he needed to do was to find a job with NO travel. None. It was non-negotiable. That's pretty tough given what he does, but it was possible.

Ok, no LB's that I know of. What's an RT?

Relationship Talk <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I made it up! LOL

Last night was wild. While we were out on "date", we were leaving a resteraunt and actually saw a man hit by a car (he'll be ok). We were first to him and she helped him a great deal (she is a licensed CNA, why she doesn't do this instead of waitressing is beyond me

When we get to that point, she will need to change jobs. Right now, it's part of her addiction to finding men to have affairs with. She is "protecting her source" by remaining in that job, and your marriage cannot recover while that continues.

Yes, 3 beautiful boys. They are my life now.

Are there children who are not beatiful?? LOL... Yes I know what you mean. Mine have literally kept me alive when things were really bad.

What do you mean "radical changes"?? How short of a Plan A??

She will need to show some indication that what you are doing is making a difference. That she is willing to end contact and to make adjustments to put your marriage first. I'm thinking 6 months at the very longest, possibly less depending on what happens.

And my grammer and spelling skills are really not this horrible in RL, my typing skills are just THAT bad

That's what we ALL say!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

<small>[ September 16, 2002, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

Ok, now I am REALLY P'ed!!!!

Good job, coming here to vent.

She just called as I was posting a moment ago to see if she could go out Friday night, if I would watch the kids when I get off, or ask my mother to watch them so she could go out with "friends". These are the same "friends" that encouraged her to go ahead with A's, cuz "it makes you happy, doesn't it?".

What did you say?

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! She told me, "if you let me go out Friday night, then on Sat. night, I will try and get off early so WE can go out". I'm sorry, when did "Let's Make a Deal" come back on the air?? Do I look like Monty Hall?? Please, not even Monty Python would touch that one!!!!

Well, I understand why you are upset. But, she does have the right ideal in negotiating for what she wants. That's really what MB is all about. However the primary rule is that you both must be happy with all aspects of the trade at the same time.

So, trading something that would make her happy but you unhappy just doesn't cut it. That's called sacrifice, and it's not the way to marital bliss.

So, the appropriate thing to do in this case is:

1. Thank her for asking you how you felt about it.... I know, she didn't really, but let's plant the seed anyway.

2. Tell her honestly how you feel. No.... that doesn't mean saying, "How could you ASK such a thing... you know I hate those people.... they did things to destroy our family!!"
THAT is an AO and disrespectful.

How you feel is... "I'm really uncomfortable with that idea. I don't like that they encouraged your relationships with other men, and that makes me afraid for the future."

3. Ask if she would be willing to think of solutions that would work for both of you. Some that come to mind is that you both go out with her friends, she goes for only an hour and checks in with you when she gets home, you invite her friends over to your house for drinks and snacks....... There are an infinite number of ways to handle this if you are both willing to work towards the same outcome... which is that you are both happy at the same time with the solution.

Should I tell their families?

If there is still contact, maybe. Have you talked to any of the men themselves? I think a good place to start is to tell them that you love your wife, that you have children toether, that you will do whatever it takes to make the marriage work, and that they are hindering that. Appeal to whatever ethics they might have. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does. No man wants to get caught with his pants down and the husband in his face!!

Should I tell OM#3's wife?

Absolutley. She is an ally.

[b[]Should I tell my former friends mother? She would probably through him out of her house[/b]

Yes, especially if you think she will read him the riot act on the ethics of intruding on your marriage.

Also, she said OM#3 is in a M that is all but over. But these are his words to her and the story has changed several times.

That's the normal course of events in the stories that get told. I still would tell his wife. I doubt she knows the marriage is all but over! She may have a whole different view of things!

Sorry for the rant, that phone call just P'd me off.

Better here than at her!! That's what this place is for.

Now, back to homework for you grasshopper. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

C

Hiya, Cerri:) Just more updates I forgot to post. My WW moved back in with me this past week. Not because of reconciliation, but because she just had nowhere else to go. I'm not complaining. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Also, we talked to her parents about helping her out, so they now know the whole story also. And boy did they hit the roof. They laid into her really hard, much harder than I ever did even. Her parents think very highly of me, but I thought it strange they were very forgiving of my mistakes, but really hit W hard for hers. Not the way I would've done it, but I'm not her parents. Anyway, they refused to help her until she quits her current job and cuts it off with OM(#3). Don't know if I agree or not. On one hand, I would love nothing better for her to quit her job and end her relationship, on the other hand they were really brutal on her and may have only made things worse in my opinion. But again, I'm not her parents. Anyhow, not sure if any of this is important, but I wanted to keep you as informed as possible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> By the way, I forgot to mention how proud I was of her of the way she handled the accident I mentioned in my previouse post. She really took charge and kept things under control until authorities got there. And yes, I told her how proud I was also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi MTD

And where are those assignments that you are supposed to have today????????

My WW moved back in with me this past week. Not because of reconciliation, but because she just had nowhere else to go. I'm not complaining.

No!!! Me either, this gives you a good chance to work hard on your Plan A. But it also makes it all that much more important that you monitor how you are feeling, and that you eliminate LBers.

Anyway, they refused to help her until she quits her current job and cuts it off with OM(#3). Don't know if I agree or not.

HUH???? What's not to agree with??? That is the very best thing they could do for you, and what I wish all parents of WS's would do. It's the only ethical response. I'm impressed. Don't undermine that gift!!

On one hand, I would love nothing better for her to quit her job and end her relationship, on the other hand they were really brutal on her and may have only made things worse in my opinion.

Well, she may have felt badly about being beaten up, but soooo???? She should feel badly, and she should hear that what she is doing is absolutely non-negotiably unacceptable! And not just from you. Friends and family should take a stand that says we love you, but we will not tolerate nor enable this thing that you are doing.

Heck, if my family and friends had done that when I had the A, I might still be married to the father of my kids. Yeah, I might have been angry, and I might have ended some relationships, but their refusal to enable what I was doing might have caused me to stay in my marriage. And that would have been a greater gift of love than looking away.

Anyhow, not sure if any of this is important, but I wanted to keep you as informed as possible

Very important. I think that your position should be that you are grateful for their support of your marriage and your family. And that you will continue to do everything you can to be the husband she's always wanted.

Now, if she does indeed quit her job and end contact, you need to be prepared for the withdrawal... No doubt you've been reading about that in the assignments I've been giving you??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She really took charge and kept things under control until authorities got there. And yes, I told her how proud I was also.

Very, very excellent. Good job. Feel free to tell her again when it crosses your mind and she's around.

Now about those lists you should have for me?????

C