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Maybe it is because my H and I have been together my entire adult life, but he moved out over year ago, and filed for divorce a year ago next month, and it has not gotten easier at all, in any way. Perhaps the pain is less sharp than it was for the first week or two after he left, but it has been replaced with something far worse - a pain that doesn't get better, that is always there. People talk of having good and bad days - sometimes I have good minutes, maybe even an hour, though not often. It is still the first thing I think about when I wake up, and the last thing before I go to sleep. I still dream that he has come back, at least once or twice a week. I am fully functional - I go to work, take care of the kids, take them places, etc - but I am just going through the motions, motions that I will have to continue to go through for the next 18 years or so, until the youngest has finished college. Everything I have always believed has been proven wrong. Honesty, commitment, trustworthiness - these values do not bring you happiness or even contentment - but ignoring them certainly does. No one can be trusted. You can know someone for a quarter of a century, only to find out that they either have been hiding their true personality all that time, or there is no such thing as a true personality, since it can change overnight. You can't count on anything. I can't even count on myself to be able to tell a good person from an evil one.

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Nellie,<P>Maybe because there is so much indecision in your life that things aren't looking better.<P>You said its been a year since he filed. What's the hold up on his part? What's the hold up on yours ?<P>I've read your posts and know the pain you've suffered. That's why I believe that you should file for the divorce. You need to find an end to this chapter of your life.<P>My decision to file for the divorce was the hardest thing I ever did. But I could not take any more hurt. When my x first talked about divorce, I swore she would have to be the one to file. After all the pain and hurt she caused me, I decided I no longer cared who filed, I just wanted out so I could start my life again and get it off hold, hoping she would come back to her senses, bbut she gave no signs of that happening and still hasn't till this day.<P>I was doing real well the past few months prior to and immediately after the divorce. But the last 2-3 weeks have been tough. It started with running into the om a couple times 3 weeks ago, then the crap my x is pulling with the kids, the resentment I'm feeling because x is on vacation and I'm taking vacation days to stay with my sick son. Also the woman I met and was interested in doesn't seem as interested in pursuing a relationship as I am/was. I'm not sure where I satnd in that respect now. I think I was trying too hard.<P>Are you going to counseling? This may help you straighten out what you want to do with your life.<P>Also try the book, "Rebuilding After the Relationship Ends" by Dr Bruce Fisher. It deals with basically eliminating the emotional we now carry and learning to heal.<P>Please take care of your self.<P>God Bless<P>Bob<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

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Bob,<P>First you have to wait six months for a contested divorce. Apparently his lawyer didn't realize you had to take a parenting course until after the six months was up (the lawyer has said that he doesn't handle many divorces - I think he is a friend or relative of the OW). His lawyer took 3 months to come up with the first draft of a separation agreement. During this time, my H stopped paying child support until, he said, the separation agreement was signed. Apparently, according to his lawyer, my H was in possession of the draft separation agreement at the time, and had not returned it to the lawyer, yet somehow he was upset with me that it had not yet been signed. Now the lawyers are going back and forth with the separation agreement, at typical lawyer speed. <P>This is not just a chapter of my life. The book of my life has been completely rewritten. All good memories are forever tainted. Every word he has ever said to me is subject to reinterpretation, in light of his statement that he hasn't been truthful for a long time, and that if we had faced our problems (whatever the H*** they were) we would have divorced many children ago. I don't think indecision has anything to do with it. The only thing I can imagine that would be worse than being in limbo is being divorced. <P>I am sure it is obvious to the kids that the values my H and I tried to instill into them were meaningless. Shortly after he left, my H said that our values and goals were different. I can't dispute that his values are certainly different now. I asked him once what his goals were for the kids, and he came up with one primary goal - that they would realize they could do anything they wanted to. Although he was probably talking primarily about career goals, that pretty much sums up his new philosophy. Nothing about instilling values like responsibility, or any thing else that used to be important to him. What is the point, when what I have to look forward to is trying to co-parent with a man whose stated child-rearing goal is to make them into selfish hedonists.

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{{{{Nellie1}}}}}<P>I too keep have dreams like H is still here. I miss him terribly and worry about him constantly. I'm sick of people telling me it will get better. The only thing I know for sure is that it will be different. <P>Keep your head up as much as you can and take care of yourself.

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Nellie,<P>I understand, my x would never let our kids watch anything dealing with witchcraft. Now she rents them R rated movies, and allows them to watch those thinly disguised porno shows on the Fox network. I wonder about my kids morals too. Their mother while married was living with a married man. Now their unmarried mother is still living with a married man. I don't think he has the stones to divorce his w as she is his safety net.<P>I guess my problem is that I look at the last year or two of my marriage and allow it to destroy the 14+ prior years and for that reason I don't look back.<P>Thats why I look to the future and wonder what it can be.<P>BOB

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Nellie,<P>A quetion. Given that you are hurting so very much by all the crap your His dishing out, then why is divorce worse than limbo?<P>I CHOSE divorce. I filed. My H told me several times he was going to file and never did even see a lawyer. I kept thinking, like Bob, that he would have to be the one to file. Then one day I woke up and took control of my life and my destiny, again. I decided: Hey, what do I want out of life....I want a guy who will love me back as much as I love him, and treat me as good as I will treat him. <P>The reality is that my H just isn't that guy at this point in our lives. He can't or won't give me any love nor treat me well. So, is he what I really want or need? NO. These past 14 months of the continued affair and the open flaunting he has been doing for months now, just killed off the remaining love I had for him. So, I decided my life will be immensely more happy without him in it, and I can recover faster without prolonging the process.<P>As soon as I decided and acted on filing, I started to feel relief and happiness. I am controlling things now. He is still trying to manipulate from the sidelines, but it isn't getting him anywhere. I honestly believe that if I hadn't filed...in 5 years, I'd be in the same boat - still being a wife without a H.<P>I guess from this point, you need to try to minimize the impact of your H's affair as much as possible in your life. I don't exactly know how, but try to find ways to if at all possible. I think it DOES get better...slowly and with more time. It is particularly hard for you because there is no direction of closure...the prolonged divorce, for example. Also, your H continues to be particularly cruel, which definitely delays the recovery process.<P>Then, there is the after effect we will all have to deal with. Bob, the funky relationship that didn't pan out is just one of the after effects. <P>I personally am having this problem: I am for the most part feeling pretty balanced, but the slightest little thing out of the norm can set me into a tailspin emotionally. For instance, I got upset when I thought the papers weren't going to be filed on the date I was expecting them to. Now, they did eventually, but I broke down and cried at work becuase I thought they were going to be delayed by H not being around to be served.<P>Well, I am on the road to recovery and yet I still know that I am far from being recovered. But, making the positive steps forward is good. I am happy 95% of the time. I rarely think of my H much at all. Only in terms of the divorce and getting his stuff out of the house. I am feeling some resentments - they come and go. I am thinking this is part of the feeling them and releasing them process...so it is good.<P>Keep working on you, Nellie. Your H will try to beat you down to make himself feel better about his choices and actions. No matter what he does or doesn't do, just remember that the bad choices were his and if he suffers any, it will be because of his choices alone.<P>Take care...<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

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Nellie,<P>I was in tons of pain for about 3 years after my first divorce due to infidelity. I can't recover that time and that is a sad thing. But, I am not pretending in saying it does get better, actually it gets GREAT. You'll get more and more good minutes and one day it will will be 2:00 in the afternoon and you'll realize you didn't wake up with it. <P>You'll probably blast me for these next things but I just would like you to think about them for a moment.<P>Do not speak to the man(H) unless spoken to, and then keep it brief and to the point. Let's face it, he's a jerk and does not deserve to be treated with any respect AT ALL.<P>Give up the idea, the word, the fantasy "co-partent". They are YOUR kids now, he left them in every sense of the word. Drop the idea that these kids are in any way, any connection between you two in your marital relationship.<P>Break the damn rules Nellie, your H has broken them all and does just fine. There is no rule and no court that can say you have to involve him in anything. If he doesn't like that let him take you to court for every stupid thing he wants. That will wear him and his OW out for sure.<P>Please, stop lookiing at your future in "kid years". Where is Nellie in this ?<P>My parents divorced when I was 18 and my youngest sister was 12.(22 years married, four children) Maybe we're all a bunch of dumb blondes but we did not learn any grand, good or bad lessons. It was my parents marriage NOT mine. I was NEVER involved in the intimate aspects of my parents marriage.<P>Both of my parents went through a period of suffering during the divorce but they both did eventually heal and have productive, happy lives now.<P>My parents DO NOT live for myself and my sisters. I would not want them to. It would be sad and fill me with guilt to think that all they are is "parents". I wouldn't want anyone to give up themselves or life for me.<P>This has been really nasty for you I know. I have been married twice to infidels. If my current H is an infidel I don't know it yet. There is nothing I can do about that. If he should become an infidel where will we be? Will I be 7 months pregnant? Will we have just bought our dream home? Will I have three kids? If there is one thing I have learned at MB these infidels don't give a rat's butt about anything like that. There was never a "right time" for your H do this most despicable thing.<P>He says really nasty, crappy, BS to you. Now close those ears to that! When you stop reacting for real to his crap nothing he says will matter. <P>Hang in there Nellie, you'll make it to happiness again. It just takes time and taking care of JUST YOU at times.<BR> <BR>

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Nellie,<P>Everything that has been said is good advise. It is time to take control of your life and stop having any expectation at all from your STBX h. He is an alien and you should accept that. <P>I too had to file, because my h would have never have done it. I waited and waited for him to figure it out. It has been 2 year and he is still seeing the OW. I filed last March and am still not divorced because he is dragging dragging his feet. I just finally had enough and yes I was in pain just like you. I would literally embrace myself and my loneliness every night for months and months. I also started changing my life, working out, playing more tennis, getting out socially with other divorced people. <P>I stopped looking for a Mr right I was not interested in that one bit. I was exploring my new life and redeveloping the relationship I had with my children. Letting them know that I needed my own space sometimes and that I would be ok when I was without them. You need to let go of your anger sweetie. It is only eating at you and empowering you and making you so very very bitter. Yes its ok to get angry but then move on and don't stay trapped in that phase. Learn to push through it and be above it. Believe me it freaked my x out when I let it all go. He still doesn't get the new me. <P>The funny thing is that I am happy now. I am in a committed relationship with a kind man. I have no expectations about this relationship either. If it works great if it doesn't, it just wasn't meant to be. I can't control anybody but myself. I treat him with respect and I show my affection for him openly. If there is something not right in our relationship, I expect him to be honest and open and I am also. Anyway, I think it is time to stop talking or even seeing your x. Make your transfers quick and with no confrontations. Yes he is your childrens father, but he is going to make his own mistakes and you cant fix them for him. Let him go, he doesn't deserve so much of your mind energy, he is sucking you dry. Hope I haven't offended in any way. I just know how that pain, bitterness and loneliness can envelope you and you just sit there numb. Take care<P>Gerri

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Desiree,<P>Your too cool!<P>Eric32

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Nellie, <BR>One of the worst things we can do is let the other person control our thinking and our lives. We CANNOT control how another person acts, no matter how much we want to. We have to do what is right for us...When we separated ths e last time, Peter, my X was to have the kids every other weekend. Most of the time, something would come up and he would not take them. Sometime I didn't even know until the last minute, even though he had known for several weeks. I wanted him to be an attentive dad. I wanted him to be the kind of Dad I wanted him to be. Then I woke up........<BR>I cannot make him be what I feel my kids need. He is what he is. Mine are 16 and 14....they are figuring this out for themselves. Now when he does want them, they are often busy and don't want to go. And I don't make them. It bothers him now....when he trys to talk to me about it, I tell him to talk to them. He and they must deal with their own relationship. And I must let go....<P>------------------<BR>Susan

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I don't think it will ever be[b]better[b]just bareable.Different! <BR>Best for me is being together. That is not going to happen so we must settle for bareable... <BR>Not a very cheerful day for me...

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The book Bob suggested is great! I am reading it too! I would definitely suggest it to anybody on this side of the board.<P>Nellie, hang in there! I do those things too! It is getting better for me though. I have moments when I feel worthless and unlovable and moments when I am glad to be "almost" rid of him. <P>RWD, I can't WAIT to be where you are! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Studentwife, ditto to the dreams. They almost feel too real sometimes.<P>Desiree, YOU GO GIRL! <P>InShock, I totally agree with you! <P>Limerick, I envy you! Hopefully I will get to where you are at soon!<P>Eric, you make me LOL! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Sue, the control thing is what is the worst part of this. I guess we have to just let go! Easier said then done though huh?<P>Tyra, sorry about your bad day! Can we help?<P>TB

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<BR>studentwife,<P>I know people are trying to be encouraging when they say it will get better, but I think that false hope is worse than none at all.<P>Bob,<P>I know that the first 23-24 or so years of our relationship my H was not the same person as he has been recently. I will never accept that that was fantasy and the way he acts now is reality. <P>Desiree,<P>Because marriage is forever, divorce is wrong, I still love my "real" husband and always will, and I do not believe that our differences are irreconcilable. I agree with Gary Chapman that the only irreconcilable difference is that I want to stay married to him and he doesn't. <P>I was told by a lawyer that in our state it is rare for divorces where children are involved to take less than a year. <P>Inshock,<P>This is not just about the destruction of our marriage; it is about the destruction of our family. <P>There are two types of family structures. There are families whose primary relationships and activities are outside the family, and families whose primary relationships and activities are within the family. Our family has always been of the second type. Everything we have done has reflected that-having a large family, homeschooling, family farming, etc. There was an article in Sunday's paper in which the author John Rosemond was quoted as saying, "By the time a child was 4 years old, the typical parent of 50 years ago had put that child to work in the family and was teaching that child obligation, a service ethic, and to be aware that he was not an independent operator but part of a social grouping." That philosophy more or less describes how I feel children should be raised, although four years old is a bit young. <P>The externally-oriented family structure may well work for some people, but it is not what I want for my family, and it was not what my H, by all appearances, used to want. <P>I don't think you can compare the effects of a divorce on an 18 year old with the effects on a 3 year old. <P>I don't know why your parents divorced, but my H has made no secret of the fact that there is another woman (although of course he claims it has nothing to do with her, like all infidels do). He introduced the kids to her six weeks after he left. A month of so later, he let our little children (9 & 6) know that he was sleeping in her bed. He admitted to our 18 year old that he had found her through a personal ad. What more details could he possibly have given them? The 16 year old figured out that he was having an affair the moment he left. <P>Being a mother is not the only role I have in life, but it is certainly the most important. A year or two ago I bet my H would have said the same thing about being a father. I had a discussion about this with a mother of 8 that I met at my daughter's college. She and I agreed that some people have children as a part of their life, albeit an important part of course, but when you decide to have a large family, RAISING CHILDREN IS YOUR LIFE. It is a choice my H and I made, and it is a valid choice. I will have at least one child at home/in college for nearly 40 years of my life. I do not view it as giving up myself or my life for them - it is what I have chosen to do with my life. But raising the children as part of a two parent family, having them see the importance of a father's role, and having them see their parents as honest, commited role models is critically important.<P>Gerri,<P>What I am feeling is not so much anger, although of course I get angry sometimes at the things my H does, but overwhelming sadness. <P>I realize that many people only do start to get over the pain when they find another relationship. I can't imagine going into another relationship with no expectations - the last thing I would want to do is bring a new person into my kids lives (or mine, for that matter) who might also leave them. Far better not to bring anyone in at all.<P>sue,<P>I may not be able to make him be what the kids need in a father, but I will certainly do everything I can to encourage it. Look at Distressed - when she was in Plan B, he H had little or nothing to do with their younger child, but since she returned to Plan A, they now have a relationship. Whether or not Plan A is best for Distressed, it is undeniably best for her daughter. I do not think that it is entirely accurate to say you have no control over another person's actions.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited March 30, 2000).]

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Tyra,<P>Unfortunately, the thought of going through the rest of my life feeling as if life is "bearable" is horrible. Yet I know that this is the best I can expect. <P>Teddy Bear,<P>Having six children depending on me keeps me from feeling worthless, but I certainly have never felt anything approaching "glad to be rid of him". I don't want to be rid of him. I want my old H back.

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Nellie,<P>It is not that I have no expectation it is that I am not ready for much more than we have. I don't want to jump into marriage again. He is interested in getting married, because he never has been married and would love children. I am older than him (only 4 years)and think that I would pursue adoption if I had any children. Luckily he is ok with this. I have had diabetes for 31 years and another child is a huge risk to my health.<P>About my expectations, I have learned to lower them since my breakup, because I was doing my ex-h a disservice by having such high expectations about our relationship, I wasn't being realistic and accepting. I have learned that some battles need to be fought and are important, and other just arent'. I think that has been the secret to my happiness and success. If you lower your expectations a tad, then you won't always be disappointed. Not that I don't hold values, I will not be in a relationship with another infidel. I am strong on this issue. I hope this helps you understand my position. <P>GP

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Thanks for wanting to help. <BR>Just kind of haveing a pitty party with myself today.( or at least for the moment)<BR>Once son gets home from school, I usually pull myself out of it. <BR>Spring break starts tomorrow so, I'll be busy for the next 3 weeks. Of course we go to court on the 10th if nothing is settled. So wonderful spring break!!!<BR>I hate doing this alone. Being alone, sleeping alone, eating alone. <BR>If I'd wanted to live a life alone I would NEVER have gotten married. I love the companiship of a man. Sorry, not just any man, my H. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<BR>Can't even imagine being with anyone else.<BR>The only face I see is his. <BR>Maybe this is withdrawl for me. <P>

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I think we all want our old H's or W's back! I know I do! I just haven't seen that person in a while.<P>I'm sorry about your situation. I can't even imagine what you are going through. It is hard enough with just one child.<P>Are you attending counseling or anything?

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TB I have gone to counseling, <BR>Like I said before just a pitty party for myself. Now I'm better. <BR>We have 3 children. Two are older and on their own. Only our youngest is still at home. <BR>I usually have a very good outlook on my life just kinda down in the dumps, I know that will pass. I have much to be thankful for, lovely children, good support network.<BR>cutest grandson (I'm bias), a roof over my head, food to eat. <BR>Of course we all seem to want what we don't have. Right now that is my H. <BR>In time I'll get over it. I'm a survivor and will be ok. Just need to vent now and then.<BR>Thanks for listening. <BR>This site has helped me discover what WE did wrong in the past months. I just wish my H. would have come here to help him see all is not lost. Past events will not be forgotten, but can be forgiven. <BR>That is what makes me sad. I believe all of this could be worked out if he had given it a chance. Maybe someday....God only knows.<BR>Someone told me "God's time is not neccesarily your time." So I must wait. Maybe today or tomorrow, or next year, or maybe not even in this life time. I know we will be together...<BR>Have a nice day. Gotta get ready to go to sons' ballgame and have some fun.<BR>Tyra

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Nellie:<BR> I just dropped over here to see how you are doing. Since I'm not facing divorce, these guys can give you much better advice than I can, but I DO care.<P> After reading your replies to everyone, I can't help butting in...I do understand that this is about the breakup of a family (not just a marriage). I commend you for the vision you had for your family, and am so sorry that has been smashed.<P> I understand that you are grieving the loss for your kids as well as for yourself. But, I DO think it will eventually progress from "horrible" to "barable" to "good, if not what you originally wanted". <P> Have you ever read the essay about having a handicapped child, that compares it to planning for months (or years even) to a trip to France...but you get off the plane and you aren't there, you are in Holland. It takes a while to adjust and to see that there are good things in Holland too. It is not wheren you wanted to go. You had no choice in getting there. You'll always wish you could've made it to France. But, after the pain and regret and anger clears, you start to notice good things about where you HAVE landed.<P>I truly believe you will get to that point...but, it does take a while. If your H had died, it would take several years...and in a way he has died, and with him, the plan you had for your life has been altered drastically. <P>We have one woman at our church with 5 natural-born kids and 3 adopted children (all adopted as hard-to-place foster kids she fell in love with). They range in each from 4 to college). I know she never planned on being a single parent. But, she does a great job (never as good as she wants, I know, as time and energy are stretched). And, her kids are happy. The are learning wonderful values. They are loved by her, and by each other. They are learning a lot about responsibility, and commitment to family.<P>Nellie, I do not want to seem as if I'm telling you "everything is OK"...obviously, it is not. And, you deserve to be able to grieve over it all, ALL the loss this entails for you and the kids. But, you will make a good life, and teach your kids well. Don;t feel hopeless (and if you cannot regain some sense of hope after an appropriate grieving period, consider whether depression could be involved...it sometimes arises a year or two down the road, in the wake of the more active grief...I learned this when I couldn't regain a sense of "life" several years after the loss of my second child).<P>Anyway, I trust I haven;t offended you...forgive me for butting in. Your posts just touched me...<P>Hugs--<BR>Kathi<P>

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Limerick,<P>I can certainly understand why you would not be ready for marriage again. <P>Kathi,<P>No, you haven't offended me in the least. I appreciate your encouragement. In many ways, it would be easier if my H had died. At least then we would be able to hold onto the fond memories we had. <P>One of two things happened. Either I wasted 25 years living with someone who hated me while pretending that he loved me, or his personality changed virtually overnight. Either one of those alternatives has completed destroyed everything I ever believed. To use the trip to France analogy, it is more like landing in Bosnia instead. <P>I realize that things could be worse. I am sure there is nothing worse than the loss of a child. Six months before my H's affair started, my sister's son was murdered (and yes, I do think this was partially responsible for my H's depression and subsequent affair). My sister is completely functional, is active and busy, but it is quite obvious that if she found out she was going to die tomorrow, she wouldn't care.

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