Nellie,<BR>I know what you mean about it seeming to never get better. My situation has been going on a year. After my H walked out (again) 3 days ago, I said,"To he!! with it. I'm not waiting on him anymore," I called a lawyer that day and I have an appt. in 2 weeks. I'm going to file for divorce, even though I initially didn't want it. But my H is someone I no longer know. He violated our marriage contract and changed the rules without ever telling me. I do not deserve to be treated like this. Yes, I am still sad and depressed most of the time. Yes I think about it first thing in the morning. Will it ever get better? I don't know. But I WILL NOT be his doormat anymore. Do you honestly think God would want you to surrender your self-esteem this way? I know that is contrary to MB in some ways, but sometimes you just have to cut your losses. I was a good wife who loved my family very much. It just wasn't enough. It's too bad if he wakes up and realizes he made a mistake. I am no longer under any obligation to wait for him. He threw out the rulebook himself. I don't know how to tell you to ease your pain. I think each of us has to find our own way. Anti-deps and anxiety meds have helped me along with counselling. But Nellie, ultimately you have to decide if you are going to lay down and die or take the lemons you've gotten and make lemonade. I don't mean to sound harsh, but YOU are responsible for your own happiness. It is up to YOU. Don't allow your H to do this. The best revenge is living well.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

You know what Nellie? I lived the last 3 months in an emotional cave, deep in the cave, and at some times flat against the back wall I sat, in a slump, unable to move. I went to counseling, I took the Xanax, I cried, I complained to whoever would listen, I stopped talking to my mother, my friends... and then one day (last Sunday to be exact, in the middle of a whooper migraine) I just 'woke up' and realized that I deserve better than this - I said in my head f**k all of them! And I literally got up from the chair and began to function again - like me - like Sheryl. <P>Keri is right, it is YOUR choice now. Get up off of that chair and begin to live your life without your precious husband. You know the truth (he DID love you for 19 years) and GO FORWARD! This bitterness can KILL you... do you know that women in our position are more prone to cancer and heart attacks? Our defenses are down, it's harder to fight disease... please, for your sanity and health, for your children... GET UP OFF THE CHAIR AND LIVE YOUR LIFE! <P>You are a good woman! Show your kids what you're made of!!<P>~Sheryl

Keriwden, and NB<P>What makes you think I am not continuing to live my life - I am. But it does not matter. I can and will continue for the rest of my life to go along working, raising the kids, whatever I have to do, but always with the knowledge that the way to achieve happiness is to put yourself first and to H*** with anyone else. That it is perfectly possible to live a happy life without a conscience, and much more difficult to live a happy life with one. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, not everyone can throw away their conscience on demand. But there is nothing I can do, nothing I can say, that will keep my kids from learning that lesson as well. <P>My lawyer has told me there is nothing I can do to keep him from arbitrarily reducing visitation. Apparently legally, as long as he doesn't want to see the kids more than the standard visitation, I have to allow that, not that I want to deny the kids. So what if now he only wants to see them once a month - apparently if a few months from now he decides he wants to see them twice a month, there is nothing I can do about it. If he decides he only wants to see them one at a time, he can do that too. He is legally allowed to make me readjust my life every time he wants to readjust visitation, and there is not a d*** thing I can do about it. <P>Every one knows that the one with the money is the one who comes out ahead. He knows it, the lawyers know it, the OW knows it, and I know it. He knows that it is safe to withhold child support occasionally, as long as the amount he withholds is less that what it would cost me to have the lawyer fight to get it restored. <P>He knows he can jerk the kids around because they are so desparate to have him see them that they will accept once a month or whatever the OW tells him is allowable. <P>I will NEVER have enough money to raise the kids. EVER. I figured out that for every dollar I earn more than what I am earning now, 80% of it will disappear to reduced child support and taxes, etc. If I have to pay for child care (which this state does not require the noncustodial parent to pay for, although it would come off my income before the reduction in child suppport was computed), I would lose money if I went back to work full-time. Even if my hourly salary were to double, which is highly unlikely, I would be no better off financially than I am right now. <P>I have never met children of divorce who were anything even approaching happy. Maybe they exist somewhere. My state has one of the lowest divorce rates in the country, so my kids aren't even likely to have any friends growing up whose parents are divorced. My two college age kids knew only a couple of people whose parents were divorced the whole time they were growing up. Nearly everyone here is married. You may find this hard to believe, but I only once, to my knowledge, met a divorced man. Everyone I have ever worked with has been either single or married, and I have worked in organizations with hundreds of employees. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 08, 2000).]

Dear Nellie,<P>I don't post much at all, but I've followed your story from time to time.<P>This is all I have to offer - things will get better when you decide to let them get better. Maybe outside circumstances won't change, but when you decide to change your thoughts and feelings about those things, when you decide to take on an attitude of acceptance and trust, then you will start to feel better inside, eventually, over time, your outlook will be brighter. Focusing so much on things that are just not within your control is exhausting and depressing. <P>My believes may be a little non-standard, but I will share them anyway: I am learning to trust in God and the universe, to believe that everything is as it should be, to believe that there is always enough of whatever I need to survive, physically and emotionally. I have learned to have the courage to change the things I can, and accept the things I can not change - still working on the serenity - but it's coming, because I trust that I am finally on a path of growth. Here is a story I found that I want to share:<BR>***************<BR>A Story About Trust<P>A poor man prayed in earnest for his family. "Lord, we have depended so much on the kindness of others, now we seek a home to call our own. As you know, my body has become weak from this terrible illness which has finally left me and I have leaned so much on others that I don't even know if I can stand on my own. I ask You, God, for strength of body and spirit, wisdom, and to help provide a home for my darling wife and children."<P>A tear fell down from the man's eye.<P>A few days later, a kind and elderly widow heard of this father's plight.<BR>"I have a plot of land you may have to build upon, but it is sorely overgrown with thick brush,trees, and large rocks. I will gladly give it to you, but it will be a laborsome undertaking," she said. The man also knew this, yet he accepted the widow's generous offer, knowing such an opportunity might not again pass. <P>The man stood afar and surveyed his newly gained property. Looking up, he smiled and said, "Lord, I asked You for a home and You give me this gnarled forest? I will trust and be thankful for the gift before me."<P>Several days into the major undertaking of levelling the land off, the man slumped against the twentieth tree he cut by hand. Sweat poured from his body, which was now covered by ruddy brown earth. "Lord!" he shouted, "Why did You choose this God-forsaken plot of land? Is this my punishment for not taking care of my family while sick these last few years? Is this the type of loving God You are?" <P>Exasperated, the man clenched his fist and went back to work, muttering to himself, " I will continue to trust." <P>Several months passed. Upon resting under the final tree to be removed, the man looked about him in wonder. Before him stood a beautiful plot of land to build a home. The lush forest surrounding the leveled area would provide good protection from the cold winter winds and also offer an abundant supply of firewood to keep warm. In a large pile next to the levelled earth, were neatly stacked tree trunks.They would make excellent logs to build a cabin. Ashamed for thinking God had left Him in his most dire time of need, the man rested his head in his hands. <P>Suddenly, he looked in to his palms. These were not the same weak hands that could barely grasp a cup to drink from. Instead, they were strong and fit, as was the rest of his body from the many months of hard physical labor.<P>The man looked up and smiled, saying, "My dear God, thank You. You answered my prayer,even in my worst moments of doubt. You took my weakness and turned it into strength and my lack of understanding, into wisdom. I will rest a while now, and begin to build my family a house."<P>The moral of this story concerns faith and trust in God. Often, we ask God for strength and the ability to endure, yet when He offers us more situations to test and try our patience and areas we may need improvement in, we shake our fists, grumble and complain, doubting our Heavenly Father's abilities. Only God can use our most difficult times to teach us some of our greatest truths. If only we open our hearts and minds, though.<P>Just as the man in this story trusted God, despite his inability to fully understand from an earthly level, we, too, can see how one may reap the rewards of pure and simple faith and trust in One who is worthy to be called King of Kings and Lord of Lords.<BR>*******<P>Please take care of yourself Nellie - that's where you start.<P><BR>

Nellie...in no way did I mean to belittle your pain. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel. But ATTITUDE means everything. OK, so your kids see what a selfish lout your H is. Maybe what they'll learn out of all this is NOT to hurt those they love. It only causes misery. Maybe they'll look at you picking up the pieces no matter how hard it is and they'll see someone who refuses to give up. They'll see someone who gets lemons and makes lemonade. They'll see that life is never easy, but you deal with it and you MOVE ON. I am sad too. I feel depressed and unworthy and unloveable, but I have made myself get up every day and go to work, take the kids to baseball & softball & piano & band & the movies. And we go on rides out in the country and get lost and laugh about trying to find our way back home. And we talk about the fun things we are going to do THIS weekend. It's not easy. But its what I've got. Why be miserable? I am not responsible for the poor choices my H has made. HE is. And I do know kids of divorce who are happy. I WAS one. So is my sister. And I will be again. So will you and your kids. Try not to look too far in the future. You are not alone in the world. You may not have all the material comfort you used to have and that is hard. I am experiencing that myself. But there are other things in life. Sunshine, trees, laughing children, lots of things. I hope you can start to see the good in the world despite your circumstances.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

It is not easy to be happy with what you don't want. Once you've had everything, it is hard to settle for a mere existence.<P>I understand Nellie's pain and her feelings. It does not ever get better once you've lost your life. And for women like me and Nellie, our H's and families ARE OUR LIVES. We chose this path with joy and anticipation, and we were not disappointed with our choice.<P>But, our lives were cruelly destroyed and ripped from us, without our consent, without our permission. And, we are constantly being told that we must accept "reality", accept what has happened and learn to deal with it.<P>Well, we ARE dealing with it! But, people also seem to demand that we grow or learn to "like" it too! And, if you're honest about it as Nellie is...well, that is not all right, it bothers people to hear the truth. Somehow they think that it means she hasn't accepted it. WRONG...she HAS accepted it, but what she will never do is "like" it, and claim it as her own.<P>It would destroy her soul to own such a travesty. Nellie is honoring her own path. Everyone handles things differently, but for women like me and Nellie, whose lives disappeared in the blink of an eye, there is no replacement to come. We know that, and that is our sorrow.<P>My 10 year old handicapped son died, and then two years later, almost to the day, my H, the man I'd loved for 23 years, the only man I ever loved, left me, and our older son for dead. Yes, there was another woman. He was with her for 4 years, two of them engaged. He came within hours of marrying her. He ended up, backing out of the wedding with cold feet. He told her he wouldn't marry her because of unresolved feelings for me, imagine that. He just broke up with her...finally. It cost him 250K to get rid of her. He seems to now realize what he lost, at least in regard to our older son. Will his new supposed new awareness lead him to make amends, I don't know.<P>I don't know what is to come. I don't know what I believe anymore. But, I can tell you, that it hasn't gotten one drop easier in the 3 years since the divorce...not one BIT easier. From the outside, I seem fine, everyone thinks I am terrific. But, I am not terrific, I am sad and alone and heartbroken.<P>I cannot find a way to view the devastation of my life as a blessing in disguise...I had EXACTLY the life I desired and dreamed of...now I don't...end of story. My life ended the day my H left me and our son. What I have now is not a life, it is an existence. A poor substitute indeed...trust me on this one.<P><p>[This message has been edited by skye (edited April 09, 2000).]

estr and Keriwden,<P>Skye's post explained it far better than I can..<P>BTW, it is not that I have fewer material things now - we weren't doing so well financially before he left, either. But I used to have hope, and the knowledge that someday, when the kids were older, I could go back to work and improve our position. Now, I have figured out that I have no reasonable expectation of ever having enough money to live on.<P>Skye,<P>Thank you for the eloquent post. You have expressed so well everything that I have been feeling also.<P>I am so sorry about the loss of your son.

`<p>[This message has been edited by skye (edited February 21, 2001).]

Skye,<P>Thanks for your response. I, too, have often felt that most people don't "get it". <P>My sister and a good friend both tried to convince me that "they hardly ever come back". I suppose they think that believing that would somehow be for my own good... Even some of my kids think I am nuts to even want him back.<P>I too will love my H until the day I die. <P>

Nellie,<P>from the reading I've done, the ONE and ONLY reason "harldy any of them come back," is because hardly ANYONE WAITS for the betrayer to wake up!! So there is more often than not, NO ONE TO COME BACK TO! There are very few hearty souls brave enough and courageous enough to stay the course.<P>The world is WAY TOO busy, PUSHING all the betrayed ones to "forget about him, get on with your own life, saying if he doesn't want you, it's his loss". If they'd leave people alone, and let them handle their lives in their own way...there just might be more restored marriages. People need room to breathe and decide what is right for them, without constant judgement and criticism.<P>It seems to bother people a lot if you decide to have faith. It bothers people if you don't rush into another relationship. They try and create a dark drama about how you're not "moving on", not dealing with reality.<P>The implication of all this supposed well meaning advice is, that if you do NOT do what they want you to do on their timetable, what they are comfortable with you doing, what they approve of, with what they THINK they would do in your shoes...well, something must be wrong with YOUR thinking!<P>The world has to put people in little slots, and a woman who does not eventually tow the party line, and put on a happy face facade...rocks the boat. <P>So do not listen to anyone whose words do not resonate with your soul Nellie. NO ONE but you has to live with the decisions you make, so you do what is right for you and your family.<P>And, no matter what the rule...there are always exceptions...you do NOT have to color inside the lines all the time!<P>Stay strong.<P>~skye~

Skye,<P>Thanks for the support. <P>Even here, it seems that many people think you shouldn't want them back once they have filed for divorce. <P>

Nellie and Skye,<P>I get it, believe me, I do... I'll be carring a torch for my H for the rest of my life. I have hopes and dreams of him coming back to me... healthy and sober... he may, he may not, but I am not closing any doors. In the mean time though, I refuse to be miserable, I have the opportunity here to grow up a bit myself, rebuild my own self-image, build a life that I am happy with - and no, it is certainly not my first choice, but it is the only choice I have right now. I believe, deep in my heart, that my H and I will eventually have a better relationship than we have ever had before, there will be mutual respect and mature love and caring, and that somehow this time we are about to spend apart must be necessary to ultimately bring about that end.<P>So what I meant in my previous post Nellie, is that I am going to trust in the forces of God and the universe. Because I have faith that all will be as it should be, I can choose to be happy within myself right now. I am not going to grieve anymore for what I feel I have lost (not too often anyway ) - I'd rather put my energy in what I am building for myself and my child, and that life will always have a place waiting for my H if he chooses.<P>Sometimes you have to tear down to rebuild, you know?

Skye-<P>Your post was one that I read several times and I have to tell you that you captured what I and many of the people here on MB feel when they go through what you have explained.<P>I had a friend tell me that in his soul, his experience will always feel like a loss that will be felt the rest of his life. The type of loss that he said his therapist told him is what is termed a "nagging, ongoing loss". A nagging loss is like a loss that he was told that couples expereince when there are problems with one or both of their reproductive systems that will not allow them to have children...infertility; you are always reminded of it.<P>Although muted over time, it continues past the "acute" phase – that lasts up to four to<BR>six months. This type of loss will be dealt with until death!<P>It does not get better...it just gets less acute over time...but never ever goes away!<BR> <P>mrrlk

Skye, that was beautiful. <P>Reminds me of that oft-told story of Gavin MacCloud's wife... how she "stayed the course" refused to believe it was over, kept his slippers by the bed, had a Bible engraved with his name, and prayed that man home. Okay, I can believe it when I read stories like yours... <P>Nellie, anything is possible. I've only been worried about your hurting heart... you sound so sad all the time. If you go back and read what I wrote, I think you'll see that. I wasn't telling you to "snap out of it", mearly sharing my concern for your wellbeing.<P>

new_beginning,<P>Could you tell me more about the Gavin and Patti MacLeod story? I know only the bare bones outline of what Patti did. How long did she have to stand for her marriage, before Gavin returned?<P>I love the part about the slippers by their bed and the engraved bible with his name on it. What else do you remember about their story. I know that they wrote a book, but unfortuantely, I believe that it is out of print.<P>If anyone knows the name of this book, please let me know, I'd really love to read a stander's success story!<P>Thanks!<P>~skye~<P>**I found it at amazon.com it is called BACK ON COURSE. But, it is out-of-print. I have them doing a search for me.<p>[This message has been edited by skye (edited April 10, 2000).]

skye,<P>I think it was years, maybe 3 or so... he was doing the Love Boat at the time, I remember that... and her prayer ladies prayed... you know they have a show on TBN in the states, and all over the world, I think... I think it's the same name as the book.<P>~Sheryl

Hello Limerick. I am new to this forum, but i read your respons and was so inspired. You appear to be where I want to be. My H left me and our 1 year old son for another woman. It has beed about 6 months since I found out and the divorce is final May 4th. My biggest problem is obsessing on the two of them being happy. I have really great days when I just think of me my son and my family, but when i think of them it still drives me crazy. Im curios how does your H respond to the new you <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Limerick:<BR><B>Nellie,<P>Everything that has been said is good advise. It is time to take control of your life and stop having any expectation at all from your STBX h. He is an alien and you should accept that. <P>I too had to file, because my h would have never have done it. I waited and waited for him to figure it out. It has been 2 year and he is still seeing the OW. I filed last March and am still not divorced because he is dragging dragging his feet. I just finally had enough and yes I was in pain just like you. I would literally embrace myself and my loneliness every night for months and months. I also started changing my life, working out, playing more tennis, getting out socially with other divorced people. <P>I stopped looking for a Mr right I was not interested in that one bit. I was exploring my new life and redeveloping the relationship I had with my children. Letting them know that I needed my own space sometimes and that I would be ok when I was without them. You need to let go of your anger sweetie. It is only eating at you and empowering you and making you so very very bitter. Yes its ok to get angry but then move on and don't stay trapped in that phase. Learn to push through it and be above it. Believe me it freaked my x out when I let it all go. He still doesn't get the new me. <P>The funny thing is that I am happy now. I am in a committed relationship with a kind man. I have no expectations about this relationship either. If it works great if it doesn't, it just wasn't meant to be. I can't control anybody but myself. I treat him with respect and I show my affection for him openly. If there is something not right in our relationship, I expect him to be honest and open and I am also. Anyway, I think it is time to stop talking or even seeing your x. Make your transfers quick and with no confrontations. Yes he is your childrens father, but he is going to make his own mistakes and you cant fix them for him. Let him go, he doesn't deserve so much of your mind energy, he is sucking you dry. Hope I haven't offended in any way. I just know how that pain, bitterness and loneliness can envelope you and you just sit there numb. Take care<P>Gerri </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Hi Nellie and Skye,<P>Real love is not replaceable. Different, but not replaceable.<P>I'm very sorry you lost your son, Skye. I don't have children, but can only imagine your pain. <P>It has been a year since my divorce, and i have no desire to find someone new either. Everyone, including my ex, say "learn from my mistakes and then I can find someone new". What kind of pitiful existence is that? Hopping from one guy to the next. <P>I think what you did was very admirable. Do trust your heart.<P>Nellie, I hope you never got the impression from me that I thought you should find someone new or forget about your H. I would like you to feel better about yourself, and find some peace somehow. <P>What Skye says earlier about your life being ripped away from you both makes so much sense. I do get it.

estr and nb,<P>Thanks for your concern. In some ways it is just better to accept the fact that some things just never heal. <P>TheStudent,<P>I certainly didn't think that you were suggesting that I start dating. I know how you feel about that.

Nellie1,<P>The subject of dating has come up in my therapy recently and it kind of bugs me. My impression is that people (including my counselor) believe that I won't be truly healed until I find someone new. Like that is the pinnacle of emotional achievement (?). Hmm. Then I guess priests and monks are all severely undeveloped emotionally. I think the reverse is true. <P>I'm of the mind now that, once a certain innocence has been lost, then having a new relationship has the potential to be even more damaging. How many times can legs be broken before someone can't walk anymore? When people say "that which doesn't kill only makes you stronger" has never had anything truly awful happen to them. Ask people who have lost a child if they are "stronger" now. Ask people who've witnessed a murder or been involved in war feel "stronger". There are some wounds that do not heal. All we can do is cope and try to be thankful for the good things we still do have in our lives.<P>You know, for a long time my choice brought me alot of sadness but it doesn't anymore. My friends who have boyfriends/husbands are plagued by their opinion of them. "My hair doesn't look right."; "I'm getting fat, better go work out." "He didn't call me, I wonder if he still loves me"; "Am I meeting his needs for (fill in the blank)?" Man, I sure don't miss that. I've changed my haircolor twice this month, don't shave my legs unless I'm wearing a skirt (and sometimes not even then), don't wear makeup unless I feel like it, could go on and on. It's been actually FUN in alot of ways, especially after all the hoops I jumped through for my ex. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 14, 2000).]