Dear friends --<P>I saw IG today...the first time since I threw him out of the house on Monday. It was at an AA meeting. My purpose for going there was to offer him some alternative to living on the streets (sleeping in a men's shelter) until he could get back home again.<P>I offered him my place IF he came with a plane ticket in hand ... he can get money from his rich father who disowned him easily enough. I told him he could stay here (max. two weeks) until his flight left.<P>He neither accepted nor rejected my offer. <P>After the AA meeting, we had lunch where I made my offer. He was nasty, nasty, nasty! It's all my fault, he kept saying over and over again. He ridiculed me, he called me ugly names and tried to make me feel like crap. When he was done his shpiel, he grabbed his coat and walked away. Whenever I opened my mouth, he accused me of *belittling* him or being *condescending*. I swear to God, I was not.<P>Luckily I had been to an Al-Anon meeting the previous night, where I learned how *not* to place importance on his vitriol.<P>We parted ... he left on his bicycle and me in my car, content (though pained) that I had made the right decision. I was feeling strong.<P>But something happened later in the afternoon. I started to feel really guilty about things, about all the money he had brought into the house since his arrival and how much faith he had in *us*. There have been so many problems. I have thrown him out four times -- twice escorted by police -- this should be an easy decision, so how come it's not????<P>Just before our last fight, he gave me $700 for household expenses. He wanted it back when I tossed him out, but I refused because I am in need of it. Feeling guilty -- and yes, he accused me of stealing it -- I called him (he was doing some work for a friend) and told him I would give him back his $700. Sounding repentent, he said *Thank you*.<P>He called about an hour later and asked if he could come back *home*. I broke down! At least I had the strength to tell him I couldn't make the decision tonight! I don't want him here...but I feel I owe him something. (Why? Because he drained his bank accnt to come live with me!)<P>Is there any hope for this relationship at all? I'm thinking he should use that $700 to rent a furnished apartment or room somewhere and we could perhaps date. I need space. I need time alone with my children.<P>This is so damned hard . Please, someone help me!!! I'm so tired...so tired of it all.<P>God Bless All of You...<P>A dazed and confused and pained...<BR>Francis<P>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis

Hey Francis...<P>You are right, he should use that $700 to find a room or whatever...to start over. You do not need to feel responsible for him...he is an adult. You need to take care of you and your children first and foremost. They do not need to see or be around a relationship that involves violence and requires getting the police involved!!!<P>Quit feeling responsible for the fact that IG chose to move to be with you. That was his choice. Quit feeling responsible for asking him to leave...that was the natural consequence of his actions. Quit following up with him...that is tearing you up and making this all harder, my friend. <P>Hugs--<P>Kathi<p>[This message has been edited by kam6318 (edited November 23, 2000).]

Francis....<BR>Ummmmmm, lemme see.....IG is alcoholic, abusive, and broke.....but he's a great kisser, right? I'm always amazed at the incredible influence these "bad boys" have over otherwise intelligent women. Skydiving is "exciting" too, but you BETTER fold your chute right....... <P>You know what you have to do. Please do it soon. Incidently, after numerous trips to your house, cops (I was one, many years ago) cant help but start thinking that you like to be abused. They'll be tempted to finish that donut before heading over to your place.....Please think about your innocent children.<P>Take care, Francis, you'll be in my prayers.<P>Lou<BR>

Francis,<P>You've already admitted that I'm *always* right (well, as near always as a guy can be... ). Your first step is to tell this guy you never want to see him again, and then enforce the "no contact" rule.<P>This is step 1 for getting your life back together. Don't feel guilty, don't offer to let him stay until he flies back. NO CONTACT.<P>Noah's sitting on my lap and he dropped his binkey in agreement. Keep this guy out of your life.

Dear Friends --<P>Thank you, thank you, thank you.<P>I just finished reading a similar email from a dear (female) friend who's been walking this ridiculous journey with me all along. She used much stronger language <P>Anyway...you're all right! IG sees his shrink today at 2 p.m. His plan was to come here aftewards. Rather, I'm going to be there, give him his $700 and leave. <P>Not exactly no contact, K, but close, eh? Once I deliver the $700, it will be no contact!<P>Now, please pick up Noah's binkey...smart kid. Must take after his mom! <P>Thank you, thank you, thank you. I feel very strong right now!!!<P>I know I'll be a basketcase later on!!! I'll check right in. (I feel like a toddler who needs to be led by the hand. Sorry.)<P>Love and hugs to all of you,<BR>Francis

Hi Francis!<BR>You and I have alot in common, so I don't know how much help my words will be. Just reading your post made me realize there are others struggling with similar things. <BR>I am so glad you are feeling stronger.*hey! give me some of that will ya!*<BR>Thanks for the encouragement!

So, Francis...how did it go?<P>Kathi

Dear friends --<P>Well, OM is back home again. Now I know some of you are probably thinking I've lost my mind (again) and that's okay.<P>Remember I said the real stories lie in the details. I haven't provided many details yet for the sake of brevity (that got me in trouble last time too...I guess i don't learn very well.)<P>Anyway, OM and I met on Friday...and we talked. We have some obvious communication problems. I told him about MarriageBuilders and the concepts. When we got home, I printed out Harley's Rules and concepts and gave them to him to read.<P>I was kind of skeptical about how he might accept this info, but he absolutely loved it! He believes in the concepts and the material I've given him to read. I also gave him the web addy so he can do his own research <P>Because of the tools Harvey and MB's provide, we have been able to venture into areas of our relationship we had previously been unable to...it's been a time of great learning for both of us!<P>MB's was not enough to keep my marriage intact but maybe, just maybe, it may provide us both with the tools we need to be in a loving and accepting/respectful relationship.<P>OM is a good man--yes, I called the police (I tend to over-react), and yes, he has used offensive language...something that has been commonplace in his previous relationships. We've both been through the mill and back in lives--most of us have--and we each carry our load of baggage. The way I see it, at least we can openly acknowledge that we have problems, and embrace some healthy coping skills provided here at MB's.<P>Looking over the basics of MB's was again an eye-opener. I even printed out Harley's famous Emotional Needs Questionnaire...as OM continues his reading, I can't wait to fill out the questionnaire.<P>We really do have a lot in common; we really are kindred spirits. I really love him and I know he loves me.<P>Please continue to keep me in your prayers.<P>It feels good to feel happy.<P>I honestly think we have something very special together. <P>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis

Francis:<P>I realize that I might be dealing with not enough information, but you're appear to be acting pretty "bipolar" to me. I really don't care how much this guy loves you, or how much he eats up the Harley stuff---it's my opinion that you're in no shape for a serious emotional relationship right now. And based on what you've said about the past, this guy is definitely a mistake.<P>I truly believe you'll be better off without him right now, and starting to refocus your energies on your family. From there, I would suggest that you try to reopen lines of communication with your husband. But this guy is not going to do you any good.

Hi K -<P>I don't know how to answer your email. I may be bipolar (who knows?). I see my shrink today and I'll give him the lowdown and see what he says.<P>I know this seems like a soap opera -- even to me, even to OM, but life sometimes is a soap opera.<P>As far as refocusing my energies on my kids, I'm doing that. I told OM my children come first ... that's just the way it is. He understands. He has a 17-yr. old daughter himself. <P>I honestly believe many of our problems developed because of timing...my marriage was obviously dying...dead (yes, I did go back and read some of my last messages from last spring) and I wanted to move on too quickly. I didn't give myself a chance to grieve the loss of my marriage. I have been doing that while in this relationship. That doesn't exactly make for great beginnings.<P>K, there is no hope for my hubby and me. He has moved on, I have moved on. And the pain of yesterday is something I'm working through--not ignoring, but really trying to work through.<P>I am in no condition for a serious relationship? You could be right, but I'm in a serious relationship and at the moment we're happy. Doesn't that count for something?<P>OM and I have a lot in common. With him I've shared all of my deepest darkest secrets (and Al-Anon teaches us we're only as sick as our secrets.) I wonder if you have any idea how liberating that is? There was so much I felt I could never share with my hubby. At this point, I'm not even sure whose fault that was. What matters now is that I am able to share with the man I'm with...and he with me.<P>When we started to get into trouble, I was able to at least approach him--not just bury the feelings. No, we didn't handle the problems well...but I honestly believe after nearly half a year together that we've turned some sort of corner after this lastest crisis. But there are no guarantees in life...we'll see what happens.<P>He agreed to stop using abusive language (it's a major trigger for me)...and I agreed to stop harrassing him when he needs time to mull over a problem. We both agreed to simply let the other know when we're bothered by something. (A lot of the garbage from the past has been creeping into our relationship. We need to keep addressing that issue.)<P>My children are the ones that really matter to me. I need to continue to be here for them, to put them first and to provide them a safe and stable home. <P>Their dad is falling nicely into weekend dad mode...he and OW see them once every two weeks and spoil them rotten. I would have thought he were capable of rising above that, but again I was wrong. I do know he loves them and is trying his best.<P>We all are...<P>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis

Hi Francis,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>but I'm in a serious relationship and at the moment we're happy...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know that you're happy at this moment. But it seems as though your pendulum swings very fast and very far---you were miserable when you showed up here. And this was a pattern that seemed to reoccur while you were spending time here last year---and that's where my concern for you comes.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I honestly believe many of our problems developed because of timing...my marriage was obviously dying...dead (yes, I did go back and read some of my last messages from last spring) and I wanted to move on too quickly. I didn't give myself a chance to grieve the loss of my marriage. I have been doing that while in this relationship. That doesn't exactly make for great beginnings.<P>K, there is no hope for my hubby and me. He has moved on, I have moved on. And the pain of yesterday is something I'm working through--not ignoring, but really trying to work through.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If I had a buck for every time someone said that to me...<P>You thought there was no hope when you first showed up. And that there was no way you could be honest. And... The bottom line is that IF you want your marriage back, then there is hope. It's not an easy path, and it's nowhere near a slam dunk, but in my opinion, your situation is very far from hopeless.<P>Eternally the optimist...<P>K

Hi again K --<P>(Gee, I'm not usually on this long, but I'm looking for jobs!)<P>Truth is, K, that when I see my STBX, I am reminded of how we didn't fit very well together. I am reminded of the years we spent together never daring to be honest...and how my deepest darkest self was never comfortable with him. He'd probably say the same thing to me (in fact, he has -- he's repeatedly said "we were not right for each other.) He's a good man...he's happy too right now..there's not much point trying when he's not really who I want to be with.'<P>Yes, when I look at family photos, see our intact family, I get sad. More than anything I wanted to spare my children the pain of a divorce...but it wasn't to be. They're already feeling the pain and confusion. Those photos (plastered all over the house) remind me of that intact family...I see our smiling faces and I long for those times again. But, and it's a big but, even the most superficial musing brings home the inherent problems we faced and how lousy we were at solving them.<P>Yes, there has been much growth since then...perhaps if we had had the tools 10 yrs ago, things might have been different today. I honestly don't know.<P>Thank you for your concern regarding my mental state. I have been on a mood stabilizer (Neurontin) for a few months...and an SSRI for the OCD coming up on three years. While the mood stabilizer seems to be helping, I think the SSRI (which is suppose to be an anti-depressant) might not be addressing my depressions.<P>You're right--my moods bounce all over the place. They are more stable than they used to be, but I guestion if they are stable enough.<P>It's hard to gauge what's really going on. My life has turned upside down in the last three years. I'm still not working, I'm in the midst of a divorce, have a new man in my life, the house is up for sale--that's a lot of chaos for anyone. I'm not at all sure that my moods are organically based anymore.<BR>They may just be reflections of the turmoil in my life.<P><P>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis