Jayhawk:<P>Thanks for the male perspective on this!!!<P>I did set up boundaries very clearly in the beginning and you have hit the nail on the head as to one of the boundaries this man wants to cross. He says he is willing to wait but I am feeling pressured. I agree that a man can wait if he really respects and likes the woman. We actually had a disagreement regarding another boundary about my spending time with my girlfriends. He felt that was a rejection of him. The way he responded kind of iced this relationship for me. He still wants to date but I don't think I want to anymore. Other things aren't going as well as I wanted either. <P>I still go to group therapy and last night the group said I shouldn't feel bad about breaking my "no dating" rule. They thought I should be dating now. Just much slower and wiser this time.<P>I just printed out your post about spouses admitting their mistakes. I still have one tiny part of me thinking I might take him back one day. SO, I am interested in reading through that post.

711, I am going through a D right now and the LAST thing I want is to bring a new person into my mixed up situation. But, the example I want to use is my business partner, who is also going through a divorce.<P>Two weeks after leaving his wife, he meets a girl and IMMEDIATLY begins a full blown relationship (sex, speanding the night, goin' steady, etc). Well, since his other relationship is still not dead (kids, divorce issues, financial, jealosies, etc), the poor new girl has walked into a buzz saw. My partner is running a 3 ring circus trying to keep all parties happy (kids, stbx, and new girlfriend) and what happened is no one's happy! The new GF is very nice and had my partner waited awaile for the dust to settle, they could have had a good potential relationship. But, since it was too soon, it seems doomed to end miserably. <P>WAIT A WHILE! For all of your sakes. How long is up to you and the common sense that applies to your situation! Good Luck, T.J.

Tom Jones:<P>I wasn't sure if you realized that I am already divorced. It was final last May. At that time, many people told me I shouldn't date for a while but I did anyway. Now it has almost been a year and most people think I should date but that I need to just take it very slow and make my boundaries clear from the start. Having said all of that, do you still recommend waiting and why?<P>

God, I can't believe I am saying this, but Nikkilynn, I think that it's probably too soon. I don't know your entire situation (and neither do most of us) but believe me when I say that nothing is like mixing the pain and adjustment of a divorce with the pain of a new breakup. There is so much to learn about you. Just take it easy. I feel sort of hypocritical giving this advice, but I believe it heart and soul. (Though sometimes I don't want to .

Hi Jen,<P>You have a good thread going! Lots of interesting outlooks and opinions. <P>Jersey Joe,<BR>Its been a long time since I've seen you on the boards, hope you will be off to a better start this year. My former name on the boards was lonelymom if you don't recognize my name.<P>Lonelysoul,<BR>I can relate to your story as well, I was in that same situation last summer. It takes a few months after it ends, to really figure it out, but I know I wasn't ready either. Of course everyone told me to be careful but after the devesatation of an affair, it is hard. Hope you are doing well now.<P>NikkiLynn,<BR>I would agree with the rest be very careful. I still believe everyone heals a little different, or at different speeds, but I was in the situation Lonelysoul was , it sounds like I could have wrote it myself, but I didn't. It's hard to walk away, I don't deny that, but maybe if that is not an option you want, than to be very careful and super slow. <P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

I have this "fantasy", and maybe it is just a "fantasy", that there are men out there who are just as hesitant about sex happening too soon in a relationship as well.<P>It seems to me that if a guy comes out and says "I'm willing to wait", then he's thrown the ball in our court. Ok. Maybe that doesn't sound so bad--on the surface. But what about HIS morals, character, and need for a certain level of trust/intimacy before sex? I'd like to think that a man I'd want to be intimate with someday isn't going to "give it up" for the first woman who is nice to him.<P>When a guy says "I'll wait till you're ready", it's like he'd be having sex with you ASAP, no problemo, no moral crisis about hurting you (or himself). Uh-uh. No thanks.<P>What I'd rather hear is something more like..."Even though I'm attracted to you, we both need to get to know each other very well before we take that step." Or something along those lines. I'd like to think that men have boundaries too. <P>Silly me....<P>711,<BR>I'd be feeling pressured too. Like, everytime you go on a date, I have this image of him drumming his fingers on the table...."I'm Waaaaaaiting. ooook. Now?.....How about...Now?....or....now?" <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited January 31, 2001).]

Well, I feel the need to echo Jayhawks sentiments. But for me it wouldn't be a matter of just waiting until she's "ready". I want the next time I'm intimate with someone to be very, VERY special. I'm not interested in just getting ****, I don't think that's very difficult. It's important to me that this next experience is a manifestation of the deep personal feelings we have for one another and represents our commitment to each other emotionally.<P>I guess what I'm fantasizing about is a healthy, serious, romantic relationship that one day "spontaneously combusts". Anything else I think would be a major let down.<P>I guess it's a good thing my interest in sex has dried up <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

TS:<P>Good point. Thanks for the laugh too!<P>Nick:<P>Well said. <P><BR>Bottomline, I don't want sex without a committed relationship and I don't want a committed relationship right now. I'm still not ready for that. Having just gotten out of an 18 year relationship/marriage, I don't need to be tied down right away. I would like to just go out and have fun right now and get to know people. I want to spend time by myself, with friends, and with men too. Hopefully, that is possible. If I keep my boundaries this time, it is. The people who want something more, will move on. The people who want the same thing as me, will probably stay around if they enjoy my company.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>I have this "fantasy", and maybe it is just a "fantasy", that there are men out there who are just as hesitant about sex happening too soon in a relationship as well.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No sex outside of marriage for me. Period. It's not worth the psychological cost <I>or</I> the impediment to the trust that's so important in a marriage.<BR>

I think it is easy to say I would never get involved, I would never have sex without a committment, I would never, etc, when there isn't anyone in your life you want to be involved with on an emotional and physical level. The problem happens when you are a little starved for affection on an emotional and physical level and along comes someone who literally blows you away. For a lot of us, this feeling is alien and is unexpected. I know after all the hurt I have been through this past year...I was totally off of any emotional entanglement. Well, life has a way of making you eat your words. I did the direct opposite of what I said I would never do. Never say never. I am paying the consequences just like I knew I would.<P>

ditto Lonely Soul<P>word for word<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul:<BR><B>I think it is easy to say I would never get involved, I would never have sex without a committment, I would never, etc, when there isn't anyone in your life you want to be involved with on an emotional and physical level. The problem happens when you are a little starved for affection on an emotional and physical level and along comes someone who literally blows you away.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's why it's so important to establish boundaries for yourself and <I>stick to them</I>. And why it's important to establish those boundaries far back from the line of temptation.<P>I've <I>been</I> unexpectedly blown away by someone who came along. And I've been swept away to the point where I crossed boundaries I had established for myself. But those were only the boundaries I had established to protect the boundaries that I felt really mattered, and that boundary-crossing served as an effective warning to me to back off before I did something I would actually regret.<P>You've got to be <I>careful</I>!<BR>

GDP,<P>I feel the same way as you do. I can't imagine getting remarried, and hence, sex is out of the question for the foreseeable future.<P>I've toned it down for the general population.

GNP: <BR>Your definition of boundry crossing sounds like double speak to me. I can't tell whether you crossed them or not. That is not to say you shouldn't have boundries, but everyone is different and sets their own according to what is comfortable for them. <P>I know you have to be careful.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Lonelysoul (edited February 01, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul:<BR><B>Your definition of boundry crossing sounds like double speak to me. I can't tell whether you crossed them or not.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Let me put it this way. I've got two sets of boundaries: the "real" ones I believe would be wrong, damaging, or foolish to cross; and the ones I set up as artificial "rules" for myself to keep me from getting anywhere close to the "real" boundaries. If I find myself tempted to break one of those "rules", this serves as a warning to me to back off, get out, or do whatever else may be appropriate. If I actually <I>break</I> one of those rules, I set up new rules for myself to protect myself from doing so again in the future.<P>This strategy has served me well. Perhaps it is a bit paranoid, but the only reason I believe I can trust myself to do the right thing is because I do not believe I can trust myself to do the right thing <I>by strength of will alone</I>. I am too good at rationalizing my actions to myself.<P>I have very few regrets in life because I have made it a habit to analyze and learn from other people's mistakes (as well as my own). No doubt we all have lessons we can only learn through experience. But there's a reason that's called learning "the hard way".<P>

GDP:<P>Two sets of boundries; real and artificial? So, if your boundry is no sex before marriage you make sure you are not tempted by setting up your imitation boundry? <P>I imagine for some this may work. I think you may miss out on quite a bit of living if you never feel comfortable to take a chance. I am not merely talking about sex. I, too have learned a lot from others mistakes and from my own. I also have learned from others that sometimes the illogical does work. <BR>

GDP,<P>I understand what you are saying. It's like you have a car alarm that warns anyone touching your car to stay away, and then a door lock, keeping most people from entering your car, then an ignition key, which would keep even fewer people from actually starting your car and driving off in it.<P>The "easy" boundaries are the warning signals. People get into problems when they don't pay attention to the warning signals, and let subsequent boundaries fall away. Been there, done that.<P>Another thing that makes it easier for me (now) is that I understand that "blowing me away" has no basis in reality. It's like going to Disneyworld for the first time when I was a kid. Back then I thought it was all real. As a grownup, I know how they create those illusions and I'm not so blown away anymore. What's interesting is that I enjoy Disneyworld just as much now as when I was a kid....even though I know how all the rides work

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul:<BR><B>I think you may miss out on quite a bit of living if you never feel comfortable to take a chance.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's not the way it works. It's like the children in a playground next to a busy street being afraid to use the area near the street until a fence is put up. If you pre-establish rules for yourself, then when you find yourself in a risky situation you don't have to be distracted by questions about whether you are acting wisely or not.<BR>

TS:<P>I disagree with your analogy of knowing how the rides work at Disneyworld and being blown away by someone. For some of us, that feeling of complete connectedness with someone is reality...not everything has a scientific answer and reason.<P>In one of your posts you said you were an INTJ...I don't want to get back on that; however, when I was going through my training for MBTI the instructor commented on INTJ's. Out of 16 types that particular one is known as the academic...that type is prone to being highly analytical and not interested in the physical, but more interested in the mental. One of my co-worker's, who was with me, is an INTJ. She was asked point blank about sex...if she enjoyed it because historically INTJ's don't care that much about the physical aspect of it much. Anyway, my point of all that is, your pro-celibacy could stem from who you are and how you see the world...which is fine for you. For some of us, we don't care how the ride works, we are enjoying the experience and wonder of it.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul:<BR><B>One of my co-worker's, who was with me, is an INTJ. She was asked point blank about sex...if she enjoyed it because historically INTJ's don't care that much about the physical aspect of it much. Anyway, my point of all that is, your pro-celibacy could stem from who you are and how you see the world...which is fine for you. For some of us, we don't care how the ride works, we are enjoying the experience and wonder of it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As an INTP/INTX who is extremely analytical to the degree that I have <I>never</I> been able to stop observing/analyzing/thinking, even in the midst of extremely emotional and aesthetic experiences, let me just say that <I>I</I> care a great deal about the physical aspect of sex as well as the intimacy and wonder of it. In fact, it is that marvelously wholistic experience of emotional/spiritual/physical intimacy and wonder that has reinforced my commitment not to settle for anything less in my future (assuming for the moment that I <I>have</I> a sexual future).<P>As a musician, there was a time when I didn't want to study music because I was afraid it would cease to have as much meaning for me if I were to turn it into an intellectual exercise. Instead, my experience has been that the more I have understand about music, the more I have been able to appreciate it at <I>all</I> levels.<P>Make of this what you will.<BR>