Why is it important to be on our own for awhile?

I have been told how important it is not to date after divorce for a while so you can learn how to be comfortable on your own.When people ask me why I have to do this, I can't really come up with a good answer except it is what I have been told to do. I have been told that I need to be alone so I can find happiness in myself and not be so dependent on others for my happiness. But, I have found that I am happiest when I have a man in my life. So, I am struggling with this whole concept.So, can some of you give me some more reasons why I should not date for a while (at least not seriously) so I can keep my New Year's resolution of living independently for a while.Thanks, JenBy the way, it is snowing in Atlanta right now and it is so beautiful. What a great way to wake up to a new day and new year!

Hi Jen --I have no simple or pithy answers for you--I just know that being in a new relationship on the heels of my marriage breakdown is really, really difficult. Both my STBX husband and I are in serious relationships, where each of us have live-in boyfriend/girlfriend. I don't know about him, but I know trying to make sense of what went wrong in my marriage while starting off a new relationship with someone else has been really confusing and difficult.I need time to mourn the death of my marriage and often times, the pain is so profound that all I want is to be alone...but I can't be alone because I have OM living with me.I want more than anything to be on my own for a while with my two children, but the situation is so complicated at this point, I have no idea how to make that a reality. So I continue, in my confusion, pain, happiness at times, to just muddle through.Where this will end is anyone's guess.Sweetie, take some time for yourself. I wish I had listened to all those who counselled me to do the same. The end of a marriage, the end of all those shared dreams and memories, is nothing to be taken lightly. Take time to understand how the marriage broke down and who *you* are...don't get involved with another out of fear of being alone. Plan for a full life, if that's what you'd like to do...but stay away from dating. You'll bring too much baggage with you.------------------ Take good care, Francis

Jen,My understanding is that it allows one to heal from the trauma of divorce...Kinda keeps the baggage to a minimum...Time for reflection to allow one to see what they did to contribute to the demise of their marriage...It also give one the time needed to get comfortable in their own skin...Chances are that without taking the time needed we'll wind up repeating our mistakes...Also...What do I really have to bring to a relationship right after I divorce...Anger...Resentment...Pain...Loneliness...And a lot of needs to be filled...I hope this somewhat answers your question...Happy New Year.....Bill

Thanks Francis:By the way, I did get serious with someone right after my divorce, and although it was very hard, I did break if off when some issues came up. I really do miss him and have been tempted to start it back up a few times. But, I know it is better that we do not.

Speak of the devil. I just got off the phone with the guy I had been dating. I'm glad we talked because I really missed him. But, we both know we really do need this time apart even though it is so difficult. Thanks Bill for your input. I really need to keep my head on straight right now and stay by myself.

Jen,Its important to be on your own to discover who YOU are. You were a wife for so long, that its hard to define who you are now that your not married. You take this time to do some of those things that you might not have done, but always wanted to. Especially things that sometimes , marriage doesn't permit. (like going to nashville).You learn to spend time alone, love yourself for who you are and discover that you are worthy of love, but you don't need it to survive. You can survive on your own.That way, when you DO find that Mr. Right, you are with him for all the right reasons. Not to forget about the exH. Not to get thru a divorce. Not to compete with the WS. Not to financially survie because its convenient. If a relationship forms like this in the midst of a divorce, you can always wonder.If you go thru it first then there is less baggage.However, I still feel, that time for us to be alone, is different for all of us. Some women take longer to let go. What matters in the end, is that we heal as much as possible FIRST.I don't believe any of us can TOTALLY heal before going into a new relationship> We may feel this pain 4 years from now, so why live that whole time being lonely?There is no set timeframe to be alone, and you have to do what is right for you. You got a good example from someone who is just "muddling" thru. Thats not what you want to wake up to.That's why I am trying my hardest to go slow. Its hard. Its hard to have met someone who is so totally kind and affectionate.But I don't want to have any regrets down the road.I also learned that sometimes, 2 people just aren't compatible. You may never fully know the reason the marriage broke up. Its too easy to say, oh, my ex cheated. Well those who were betrayed, left some need unanswered and thats how it began. Mostly a viscious circle, but I still think most of us betrayed learn down the road that we made some mistakes too. For me, I was 17 when I met the ex. He was my boyfriend. I was a teenager, who thought "he's cute, I like him". Had an accident happen and decided to make the best of the situation and tried like crazy to make life work for the baby. In the end, I am wise enough now to know that my ex is not a very sweet guy and I need someone who is going to give as much as me.But when you get in that new relationship and the feelings come for the new person, you really doubt yourself. You search hard for the answers to what went wrong so you don't do it again.Really sometimes, certain personalities just aren't right and we bring out the worst in each other. Sometimes, we have nothing in common, or we grow apart. I don't think anyone will ever know the entire reason why the whole marriage broke down and we'll never fully heal , or if we do, it will take years.But learning to love yourself, will make it easier for someone else to love you too. Also, you won't "need " him, you;'ll just "want" him, and thats a great feeling!!!!!!!!Hugs, be strong, hang in there, and find yourself first! Dana

Thanks Dana! I know I can always count on you for some words of wisdom.

.[This message has been edited by Trying to move on (edited March 26, 2001).]

I don't know if I have any words of wisdom but what got me through the worst of times was prayer, friends, family, a support group, my therapist and this site. Quite a crew, huh?My x said he left me because we never got along and never would (together 18 years, married 13) but he also admitted he was interested in a young girl in his office and other women over the last few years but never acted on it. He was tired of trying with me and wanted to find happiness with someone else. His fling with the office girl lasted less than a month. But, it didn't matter. He still had no desire to come back to me.Sooo, here I am now.I made the mistake of watching the English Patient when I was down and out to begin with. So, that has really lifted my spirits. I will write back when I am in a better frame of mind.In the meantime, hang in there and make sure you stay away from the movies. It really does get better with time. Jen

Hi 711For my 0.02c worth (even less with the exchange rate!!!!!!) here goes.I think, for me, I would like this year to myself. With no *man clutter* !!!!!!!My divorce went through court Dec 5th, and will be final Jan 7th. Even tho I have accepted everything that has happened, I still have no answers. I still don't know why he didn't want to try. I still don't know 'anything'. But I have accepted that I may never know. And that acceptance, along with the d, has given me a sense of freedom. But not freedom in the sense that I am now free to start a new relationship - even tho technically I can. It's a freedom all about me. I can be selfish for the first time in a very long time. And that is appealing. Yes, I miss male company. Close male company. But I have quite a few male friends, and they will have to do. My new years' resolution is to have this year for ME. Just me, my 2 beautiful girls, my family and my friends, and my university studies. I want to regroup ME. And even tho my priorities have always been basically in the correct order, I am going to use this year to make sure. I want to know what I want.!!!I want to, for the first time in my life, focus on me. With a lot of soul searching, I have come to the realisation that a lot of what I have done over the years is because that is what I thought 'others' would have wanted me to do. And for that reason, I know I am not ready to start a serious relationship. I do have someone ringing me at the moment, who has taken me out 3 times. But I'm just about to end it with him, because I don't feel ready. I don't want to get to know anyone at the moment. I don't have the energy to devote to anyone at the moment. I just want to focus on my beautiful children, and me.I am comfortable with me, and I like me, but I still have a lot of things that I need to work out, and work through. Unless I met someone who has been, or is going through this, how in the heck would they ever understand me.???? And how much baggage do I bring to any new relationship at this point in time. And if he is going through this too, how much baggage can 2 people have betw. them and still have a successful relationship????? I don't very often put things in the 'too hard' basket, but this is what I have done as far as relationships are concerned for the time being.All this waffle is just what I feel, and the decision that I have come to over the last week. I decided I wanted to be myself, and I'm happy with my decision. You must do what feels right for you. But bear in mind all the baggage that you have. I wish you well, and I hope that this year brings everything you want. I think that's the least you deserve...... Take care of youJo

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 711: I have been told how important it is not to date after divorce for a while so you can learn how to be comfortable on your own.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I wouldn't say "don't date" ... I would say not to go out looking for a soul mate ... avoid heavy entanglements. There are a lot of very strong feelings that come in the wake of a marital breakup. All of them arrive on their own schedule, not yours. Either or both of the divorced parties may think about, or want to pursue, reconciling. New significant others can keep that process from moving to it's natural conclusion. Somebody old could be left with lingering questions, and somebody new could get hurt.I would say get on udate.com, e-mail back and forth with some people over there to get some sense of confidence back, and inform upfront anybody you're going out with so that they know you're on the rebound ... even though it's going to be a while before you know the full ramifications of what that means.

711,As everyone has said, you need to be alone to find your own happiness. Only then can you give to others. I am currently at an end to what was once a great realtionship, because I would not follow my own advice.We were both recently seperated. She from her husband, me from a girlfriend. We met by accident, and started a world-wind, very passionate relationship within days. When I could see her becoming depressed after a few months, I insisted we take a break, so she could get the "alone time" she needed. She refused, and I wanted to belive she didn't need it. We continued seeing each other. Since then, things have slowly desintegrated. She is not able to fully "give" to a new relationship, and when she does, needs immediate praise. I often feel used and neglected. We are always fighting over things we should have/or should not have done for each other. She needs time to be by herself and do things 100 % for herself. Being with me dosen't fit rigt now.So it is with two very heavy hearts that we decided on New Years Day not see each other for a while. I wish I would have stuck to my guns many months ago, and perhaps now we would be ready to have a realtionship. Instead, she is in a position where she needs to spend all her time on her, and I for once in my life, put someone else's needs above mine, only to have disasterous results.I doubt we will every know if what we once had was real or not. Take your time! Everything has to be right! Timing is everything!This is unbelievably the 2nd New Years in a row in which my current realtonship falls apart. I am starting to hate the holidays.

I often have pondered that question too..how long should you wait before dating? I think everyone is different...depending on the circumstances for the breakup. I know for me, it seems that I have been alone for a very long time. I got involved with someone six months after separating, who was also going through a divorce. I wasn't expecting anything, but life has a way of dealing the unexpected. Things seemed perfect, but he was not ready and things ended as quickly and abruptly as they got started. In that respect, it was a mistake to have gotten involved...I was going through a painful divorce and then had to deal with relationship pain...believe me the two don't go very well. I don't need a man in my life to make me feel happy or complete me. I am confident in who I am and what I do...having someone in your life who cares for you, who thinks of you, who is sensitive to your needs is very special. Why put a time limit on that? I look forward to meeting someone who can do that just because...not because I want him to or he feels it is expected. I mourn the end of my marriage, but for me the marriage had been over a long time. I felt bad over the holidays because I didn't feel as bad as I thought I would. Nothing really was different. On New Year's I welcomed the New Year alone with my children...just like all the other years. I can't imagine dating at my age...maybe there is something inbetween. I know I won't be as trusting next time...right now I'm just too numb. I can't deal with anymore pain, so in that respect I imagine it most likely will be a long time before I am brave enough to venture out there again. I do know that it gets awful lonely doing things alone all the time, but tis the way of things right now.

One of the things Jennifer asked me to do during my exit counseling session was wait to date, in case my STBX decided to change her mind. I'm pretty sure this is not going to happen, but I think waiting is the thing for me to do.So much of who I am was defined by my marriage, that I need the time to grow into who I really am, before I interact with another person. This is especially hard, as I really crave companionship, but I realize that I'm not ready emotionally to get involved with anyone. I would like to find some new recreational companions, however.------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

711, Hmm. I'm not really here to give you reasons to date/not date. In the past, I tried to more-or-less lay out the scenario and possible consequences of dating early on so that you could make up your own mind, and you did. If your own personal experience is not enough to convince you, then I can't imagine that there is anything more I could say. I'll try though.I don't recommend the "date, but don't get too attached" advice. If you were on a diet, I wouldn't recommend buying a whole gallon of your favorite ice cream, then telling you that you were only allowed to have one bite. To continue that analogy, I wouldn't even keep the ice cream in my own freezer!!You say you are happiest with a man in your life. Ok. Let's start with that. What is it about having a man in your life that makes you the happiest? Is it male companionship, sex, affection, shared experiences? What I'm getting to is that it is very likely that you can have many of those things without risking your emotional health too much. Is it necessary for all of those things to come from one person? Sure, maybe in the long run. Here's another analogy (I like them [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

). We all like being able to walk on two legs, but if you had broken one or both of your legs, I'm sure you'd take the necessary time to let them heal before going out and running a marathon. Even with physical injuries, people forget how long it takes to fully heal. How many times have you injured something (physically), then it doesn't hurt for awhile and you think you are through it? Then, oops, you get a sharp pain, maybe even re-injure it and you realize you aren't quite done yet. Same thing with emotional pain. I get male companionship from the guys at work and from my male friends. I get affection from my friends and family, as well as laughter and bonding from shared experiences. Sex is out for me until I'm ready for a commitment. That part is a bummer and I miss that, but oh well. Every once in awhile, when I'm feeling especially needy for a male touch, I go get a full body massage. My massage guy is very cute, so that is a nice perk. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Well, I can tell everyone is getting back from the holidays. I appreciate all the replies. They have been so helpful.Bonnet: What you have said makes perfect sense to me. I don't know how you guys do the quote thing, so I will do it the old fashioned way, You said:"I want to, for the first time in my life, focus on me. With a lot of soul searching, I have come to the realisation that a lot of what I have done over the years is because that is what I thought 'others' would have wanted me to do." That is me to the tee! I got married because I thought that was what others wanted me to do. Uggh! Then I dated a guy after my divorce, and he was talking about wanting to marry me next year. That scared the hell out of me, so I decided to break it off. I have a very good idea about what went wrong in my marriage and my role in the problems because my x and I were in counseling for two years before he gave up. But, as to what I now want in life, I still have a ways to go to figure that out. I know that I'm definitely not ready for marriage anytime soon. Jersey Joe and Lonely Soul: It sounds like we all tried the dating thing and ended up with the same results. My boyfriend and I broke up right after Thanksgiving because I realized neither of us were ready for a serious relationship right now. But, I think sometimes we have to go through these tough experiences in order to learn some things about ourselves. Sisyphus: I tried the casual dating but couldn't keep it at just that. I got way too involved. I agree with The Student's ice cream analogy. It's too hard to stop because it seems so good at the time.The Student: Your injury analogy made me laugh. That's my therapist's favorite analogy. As to the reasons why a man makes me happy, I think it is the attention and validation that I receive. After my divorce, I felt so rejected and had terrible self esteem. I thought who would want me?? I was 36 with two kids and had so many friends that were single and unhappy. So, when I started getting asked out, it made me feel that maybe I wasn't so bad after all. But, I'm starting to realize, that I don't need others to feel good about myself. I need to feel worthy on my own. Nick: Sometimes, I wonder if my dating shortly after my divorce, kept my x from possibly reconciling. I think that is another good reason to wait, especially, if you think there is any possibility of that. So, I plan on being alone for awhile and enjoying the fact that I only have myself to please right now. Besides, the kids of course. I think the way Bonnet put it made it sound like a wonderful oppurtunity vs. self imposed drudgery for a year.

711- This is a somewhat old topic, but I just saw it. I just wanted to say that I am grateful to know that there are so many people who can relate to exactly how I feel. You are one of them. You responded to one of my first posts about my post D relationship because you were in one yourself. I remember that. It's amazing to me how similar so many of our stories are. Sometimes it is diheartening. Just wanted you to know that and to say that I will keep you in my thoughts . Thanks for sharing.

I think I need to read more about Augustine. Read a wonderful book which attributed something so pertinent to my life: ------------- To have peace, you must know yourself. And, to know yourself, you must be alone. -------------And it seems so true. I think I had lost myself. Then I had the divorce thrust upon me. And, while I don't know myself perfectly, I do know so much more. And I have more peace than I had when I had that man I was trying so hard to please.

Hey Jen,What a great topic! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And it seems so true. I think I had lost myself. Then I had the divorce thrust upon me. And, while I don't know myself perfectly, I do know so much more. And I have more peace than I had when I had that man I was trying so hard to please.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Cinderella,I couldn't have said that any better.I feel exactly the same way. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I can say that for my self,bc I have children I don't think that I am "truly" alone.Yes......after the kids are in bed the house is dark and quite.But hey,that is "MY" time.I can then do what I want to do.Take a bath,watch a movie,work on a home improvement project,read a book,be on line w/you guys [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I am happy w/my self.So do I really Need to have a man around? Hell no........"I don't need no stinking Man"I will say thou Jen,I somewhat can see from where you are coming from in regards to being your happiest when w/a Man.I can honestly say that I have seen my self happier,like I don't know,maybe "More complete",when in a relationship.I love doing for others.I am a "giver",that makes me happy.Is that a good thing or a bad thing? ["are you a good witch or a bad witch"?] LOL.....ok,sorry couldn't help my self.Have a good one!Gina [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ "If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----[This message has been edited by LittleCookie (edited January 19, 2001).]

I'm in a slightly different boat - The only person I dated longterm - my stbx. Got married at 19 and stayed that way until last August (15 1/2 years) - I don't even know who I am as an adult who is not married. That is verryyy scary for me and I think it lends itself to my desire to cling to stbx despite the treatment he's given me.(thinking hard)I can do this, I can do this!Lisa

Lisa,I too had been only w/my stbx for 15 years.You are so much more then just a W.Example:I work at a school:So there for I am a teacherI have children: So there for I am a MommyI have friends: So there for I am a friend.I have siblings: So there for I am a sister.I know you get the point.Being a W is an important role,and yes I can say that honestly I do miss that.But there is so much more.It isn't the Only thing.Take the time for your self,to know what it is that you like and go and have some fun.Take it easy.It's got to get better right????Gina [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ "If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

I met my x at 18. Married at 21. And was married 17 yrs. before he left. And though I have a mother, sister, 2 children, numerous friends and acquaintances, I truly felt alone. I was alone in making the decisions, I was alone in dealing with the children, I was alone in dealing with finances/house/car/all that stuff, I was alone in bed. Yes, I had friends who helped me out emotionally. But I was so ALONE I thought I was dying.So, I've been forced to find my self and my way through a very lonely thing. I had lost my self. I think that was why I think I really did the 'alone' thing. And some days I'm not so sure I'm through.

The whole idea of being alone for awhile is to understand who you are and what your own needs are without being dependent on any one else.This lets you be "you" when you are in a relationship & not just be what your partner wants you to be. It also helps you to understand that you do not "need" some else to be happy.------------------ Prayers & God Bless! Chris For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

I did't get married until I was 25. I was independent and knew what I wanted. I remember when I first got married I didn't want to change my name; not because I didn't love my H...to me it was going to create a lot of confusion with work, etc. My H was horrified, so I changed it after a year. Anyway, part of the reason my marriage is ending is I was so tired of being alone. Lots of people have responded about learning to find themselves, having to do things alone...I have been doing that for many years. My spouse didn't do much with us at all. I took care of the bills, the insurance, the kids, the house, etc. I had to bribe him to go away with us for a few days. He prefered the couch to bed, so in many respects, nothing has changed for me. My D still isn't final, but emotionally, I am ready to not be so alone. I know who I am and what I want and have never defined myself by being part of an us.

GSD: Well, that was fun signing on and seeing my old post revived. I agree that we are very similar. I have related to all of your posts.Cinderella:Our history is about the same. I met my x when I was 18, married him at 23, was married for 13 years, so I haven't dated since I was 18. I have two little girls and I am now running the household for the first time. I share custody 50 - 50 so that helps a little as I can run errands, etc. while my kids are with him, but I hate not having them all the time.I have spent the last two months on my own and have really found that being alone is not so bad. I have done many things by myself or just with my kids and with friends and family as well. I have read a few books and joined some all women groups which I really have enjoyed. But, I did recently break my no dating rule. I was asked out by a male friend about two weeks ago and have gone out to dinner with him a few times. I have told him at this time I am not looking for a serious relationship with anyone. He told me that he understands where I am coming from and will respect that and wants me to set the pace of this relationship. Although, I sense that he is hoping that this will develop into something more permanent.So, here is my chance to be assertive with what I want and need right now. He has some great qualities. The problem I am having right now is that I'm already starting to think "Hey, this guy has some great qualities, so I better hold on to this one" DANGER DANGER. I think this is dangerous thinking.I just talked to my sister and she said that she doesn't think I shouldn't date right now but that I just need to take it slower this time. I need to spend time just talking and getting to know this guy. And, I need to make sure that I stay TRUE TO MYSELF and what I want in the relationship. I need to be completely honest with this guy and if I start feeling uncomfortable at any time, I need to tell him. I need to stay within the boundaries I have set for myself. If he doesn't like that, he has the choice to move on. And, if he decides to move on, that will be ok. I now know that I will be ok with or without a man.Based on my last relationship, I know that I am playing with fire right now, but I feel that I am stronger now. I guess I shall find out soon enough. SO, wish me luck!

711,Hey Jen. I don't think I've posted anything directly to you in a while and hope that everything is going well with you. How's the new house? I have been told this same thing about not getting involved too soon after a divorce and I never had a good reason why UNTIL I started to date.For me, my dating has set me back into an emotional roller coaster from hell. I enjoy the company of the woman I am seeing, but the more time I have spent with her, the more I miss my ex. I have been open with this person (who has been divorced for 2 years now herself) and she is very understanding to what I am going through. I don't know what it is, but starting to tear up over intense feelings of longing for your ex while in the company of your current date cannot make that other person feel too special! I know that I have to give it time to mourn the loss of my marriage and to really be ok being on my own before I can start to work myself back to being with another person. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheStudent: We all like being able to walk on two legs, but if you had broken one or both of your legs, I'm sure you'd take the necessary time to let them heal before going out and running a marathon. Even with physical injuries, people forget how long it takes to fully heal. How many times have you injured something (physically), then it doesn't hurt for awhile and you think you are through it? Then, oops, you get a sharp pain, maybe even re-injure it and you realize you aren't quite done yet. Same thing with emotional pain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> TS, this is an awesome analogy!Cinderella, I really do like the quote you chose to share.....To have peace, you must know yourself. And, to know yourself, you must be alone.[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited January 21, 2001).]

Hey Jayhawk (old friend),It is good to hear from you. I'm sorry to hear that you are back on that emotional roller coaster. Why does life have to be so difficult??? I'm right there with you. I'm starting to get uncomfortable with the guy I am dating not because of unresolved feelings for my x but because I think he wants to go much faster in this relationship than I. And, I am such a pushover. I am trying hard to keep my boundaries in place but I can see them starting to crumble away. I have told the guy this and he said no problem. That he will go as slow as I want. But, how long will that last? I am so stressed out over this. I think I need to go back to not dating again because I can't trust myself in this relationship. But, I don't want to do it.So, here I am just struggling with all of this. I really don't need this right now. SO, I guess I need to read back through all the posts again about why it is important to be alone and what I should be doing while I am alone.Yes, The Student's analogy is a good one. My therapist uses that one too. I can really relate to this one. I am a runner but have not been running as much as I used to. The other day I got disgusted with myself and took off and ran 3 miles without warming up or anything. A day later, my hamstring was killing me. An old injury I just can't seem to get rid of. Sounds so much like another injury that keeps being opened up. SO, how long does it take to heal. My hamstring has been bothering me for years!!! My sister recommended a good book. I think it is called "The Four Agreements". It is basically a book about being true to oneself. I am going to order that tonight. Maybe that will help me.Thanks for listening everyone. I know I must sound like a basket case. I am!!![This message has been edited by 711 (edited January 21, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> SO, how long does it take to heal. My hamstring has been bothering me for years!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>For hamstrings, wear flats or go barefoot as much as possible, as well as stretch every day. also, start out with light weights and many repetitions. A hamstring will tear when it is significantly weaker than the quad.(BTW, I strained/popped mine three times in one season, playing soccer, and it is a typical middle age injury.) Now it is just fine, but occasional weights, and stretching.tombeen there, done that, OUCH!

Thanks Tom!I know I need to stretch but I rarely do. My Dad is constantly on me about this. I did start back with light weights recently to strengthen it again. I usually pull it when I play tennis or run. And, I just signed up for Spring tennis. So, again, I am a fool in two areas now. Playing sports before I am ready and dating before I am ready. How much pain do I need to suffer, before I will finally learn my lessons?Jen

After responding to this post earlier today, I decided to go do something I've never done before....I went to go see a movie by myself. I felt a little strange about it at first, but once I sat down in the theater, I never really gave it a second thought.I saw the movie Cast Away. I've wanted to see the movie and since most of my friends have already seen it, I just went. Considering that the movie is really a character study of how one man reacts to surviving on his own (literally) before re-entering to society, I thought it would be a fitting movie for me right now. I hoped to take something away from the movie which I could use to help me get through this difficult time myself. Even though I'm not stranded on a desert island, I was able to relate to the character and to the plot on certain levels. Most importantly though, I learned that I could go to a movie by myself and was ok with it! I know it was a simple thing, but I am viewing it as the next step along my little journey.

I haven't gone to the movies by myself yet. I agree that is a good step. I haven't seen Cast Away yet. I did see the Family Man with my sisters. I was glad to see a movie that actually glorified marriage for a change. It was refresing. Last year, it seemed all the movies I saw included affairs and how great they were.[This message has been edited by 711 (edited January 21, 2001).]

711,I pulled a hamstring a couple of years ago and it took almost a year to heal, with no running. Once I started running I did shorter intervals and shortened my stride. I also learned to stretch more after the run, which helps a lot. I've also spent more time riding my bikes, which is much less stressful than running. Now if I could just get my ITB to settle down.Take care...------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

I'm a member of AAA, and saw that they were offering specials at one of the swank bed-n-breakfast type hotels in St. Augustine, FL. I got bummed at first, because it was a place me and my ex used to go. I started thinking, "oh well. Someday I can go there with someone again." Then I thought...WHY WAIT?! St. Augustine has some nice beaches, restaurants, etc. I think I might just check in all by my little 'ol self. I'm thinking it would be a nice spring-break present to myself!!I bought a flower arrangement for myself last night. You don't need to wait to have a life. Sure, it is more fun to have someone to share it with, but there is alot of living out there to do. This time last year, I spent 5 days all by myself in Paris. It was wierd. It was almost like being in "Cast Away", because I couldn't speak the language [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

What I did do is write a journal that whole time. Every little thing that caught my eye that I would normally share with someone if they were there. When I got home, I read my journal to my friends and got to share it then.

Nick: Thanks for the hamstring advice. This is an injury that just keeps coming back for more. I did stop running and playing tennis last year and it felt so much better. But, the minute I start these activities up again, it hurts. I really enjoy both but don't like dealing with the pain.Again, I love the comparison between sport's injuries and divorce. It took you a year without running to heal your hamstring. I have always heard it takes at least a year without dating to heal from a divorce. So, I am planning to keep things at a much slower pace in both sports and love for a while.TS: The vacation sounds great. I have never gone on a vaction by myself. That does sound so relaxing. And, I liked the flowers idea. I love flowers but rarely buy them.Jen[This message has been edited by 711 (edited January 23, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 711: GSD: So, here is my chance to be assertive with what I want and need right now. He has some great qualities. The problem I am having right now is that I'm already starting to think "Hey, this guy has some great qualities, so I better hold on to this one" DANGER DANGER. I think this is dangerous thinking.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"Hey, this guy has some great qualities, so I better hold on to this one" DANGER DANGER. I think this is dangerous thinking."Wow, could I have written this! That is how I felt with the last guy and probably why I got so hurt. It was more dissapointment actually. I saw someone that I was very compatible with, who wanted the same things out of life, and liked similar things. He seemed "right." I felt like I had lost a chance at something good, not realizing that it isn't good if it isn't the right time. I get mad sometimes and want to speed up the next year or so so that I can be ready to date and not have to discard any good ones. Isn't that crazy? Also, I am afraid to date any really nice men because I am thinking that I will blow any chance at a good thing with them by starting something prematurely. (???!?!?!?) I can't help but think that if I had dated that guy later on that it might have worked out, but I feel like I blew it. (DOn't razz me for all this, guys. I recognize the lack of logic [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

)

gsd, "I get mad sometimes and want to speed up the next year or so so that I can be ready to date and not have to discard any good ones."Ok. You don't sound convinced that taking the suggested "time out" is a good thing for you. Maybe you should date somemore. I'm not being flippant. If something bad happens, then you might re-think waiting somemore. You're taking the chance of undoing whatever gains you have made up to this point. On the other hand, if something good happens, then that's nice too. I have to say though, that your first dating experience didn't sound like too much fun for you. It sounds like you feel as if there is only so many men to go around, and if you don't grab this one, then there won't be another. I mean, I understand why you would feel that way, but do you really think that's true? I guess my point is that, if your experience so far hasn't convinced you that waiting for awhile isn't a good idea, then there's nothing anyone can say to change your mind. Not only that, you won't get much out of this year "waiting time" either. It will be treated more like a time for penance and punishment than a period of true reflection and growth.

GSD:I think the Student is right regarding the year off rule. You have to buy into it. I thought it was like a punishment when I first heard it. I thought you got to be kidding, wait a year!!! Not me. So, I dated right after my divorce was final. I actually had some really good times but also some bad ones as well. I will take what I learned from that early experience and use that in my next relatinship. Now, I am taking this new relationship slower but I know this is very risky for me. I am making time for myself and friends at the same time. I didn't do that last time around. I think in each new relationship we learn more and more about ourselves and what we want. But, I think it is very important to let anyone you date know where you are in the process. So, they know the risks involved.. Even then, people can get hurt so be careful.I did have a little time off from dating and I enjoyed it. Especially not having to shave my legs all the time. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

You mean I have to shave my legs when I start dating again? Wow, the rules for dating sure have changed [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

711,Some sabbatical! I'm teasing, you know.I honestly can't think of a single guy I'd want to date, and I work around all guys. I think I'm desensitized to the male presence. Remember my Haagen Daz analogy in regards to dating? In my case, I guess I eat Haagen Daz all day and am getting pretty sick of ice cream at this point. By the time I get home, whatever is in the freezer doesn't look too appealing. It's either that, or I got a really bad case of food poisening from the last batch of ice cream I pulled out of the freezer, so now looking at ice cream makes me sick to my stomach. Yea. That's it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by c00ker: You mean I have to shave my legs when I start dating again? Wow, the rules for dating sure have changed [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only if she's a faster rider ... you'll feel inferior if you can't keep up.Seriously, though, the rebound relationships are fraught with peril. Mine appeared unbidden at my apartment door (in a secure building!) during the breakup, and during the course of a very distressing discussion held a steak knife at her own breast. Since she was roughly my size, I had to take this a lot more seriously than I had to take any of the XW's antics, because what was pointed at her could just as easily have been turned on me. It took a while to talk her down.BTW, she went into this relationship with eyes wide open that I was on the rebound, and she had even been in a similar rebound situation several months before and gotten badly burned. Go figure.The major difference was religious, something she hid at the outset, and I didn't pick up on because she was Brazilian. I was not amused at finding out I was a shaygitz for about the tenth time. Tried to be cool with it, but ultimately it was a problem, as was the fact that she was a poor me type--I think she had been self-reliant at one time, but she was ground down and not doing the right things to bounce back.

I had to laugh when I listened to Dr. Laura today. A 50 yo guy called up complaining that his new wife won't cook.Dr Laura asked him how long he had know this woman ? He replied 6 months. I guess this is a prime example if you rush into things.

Nick: Oh yes, shaved legs are a requirement, so get ready. That might be just what you need to hear to keep you on the right path.TS:I know, I know. I'm pathetic. But, I'm trying. I'm going much slower now than before and you know how fast I was going before. I love all your analogies. Keep those coming. However, I just had an ice cream sandwich and it was delicious. So, I guess I haven't gotten sick of ice cream or, should I dare say it, men, yet! Sisyphus:Thanks for the warnings. You are right that rebound relationships can be dangerous. I had a very scary encounter with an ex girlfriend of the guy I dated after my divorce. I had to call the police to get the situation under control. RWD:Thanks for the humorous reminder of the drawbacks of getting involved too early. At least the guy I am seeing knows I don't like to cook and even burn popcorn and I have only seen him for 2 weeks.As far as my current relationship, I have felt very anxious today about it and have been trying to decide what to do. The guy wants more out of the relationship than I can give right now. He keeps telling me that he will take it slow but he doesn't. So, I need to constantly tell him that we need to go slower. I may just have to stop dating him right now. I hate this part of dating. If he would go slower, I would love to continue seeing him but I'm not sure he is really trying to go slow. I think he sees my vulnerablity and may be taking advantage of that. I have been more assertive in this relationship than the last but I still have a ways to go. So, I may be back on my sabatical very soon. At least, until the next good looking guy comes along. Smile!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 711: Nick: Oh yes, shaved legs are a requirement, so get ready. That might be just what you need to hear to keep you on the right path. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Darn, well, I guess that means I'm not ready to date. Oh well, I'm glad I found out now before it became an embarrasing social faux pas [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

Well, I found another reason not to date for awhile. Have a sister that yells at you every time you don't stick to exactly what you planned.I am really trying to go slower this time and maybe I should be going even slower or not at all right now, but I hate that I can't even talk to my sister about this without being scolded.I know she means well. And, she is probably right. But, I am really trying right now to do what is right but I am not perfect and I am still confused about what it is I really want or am capable of doing. She gets aggravated because I say one thing and do another. Which is true, but at the time I say what I want to do, I really do want to do that. I'm not just saying it. But, unfortunately, I am not always capable of sticking to what I say I want to do even when I know it is the healthy thing to do. I am trying to be more assertive with my needs. But, I have a long way to go. She told me that she is angry at the man I am seeing because he knows where I am right now and he is not respecting that. He is going after what he wants.Is anyone else struggling with these issues? Trying to not date but not being able to do that? [This message has been edited by 711 (edited January 27, 2001).][This message has been edited by 711 (edited January 27, 2001).]

TS-I recognize the importance of waiting. But you're right. I have to buy into the idea with my whole heart. It's like I'm taking my medicine but not believing it will work. 711- When you say he is not taking it slow, do you mean sexually? And are you feeling incapable of a)not sleeping with him b) not sharing too much with him emotionally c) not getting too attached d) not dating other people. I guess my main question might be: how do you keep it light when you really feel attracted and interested in someone? It's like holding back when you really want to go forward. That is why I am reluctant to date anyone. I don't want to find someone I really like because it may be too soon. Then holding back becomes a hassle. I think the STudent had a different ice cream analogy: one about how if you can't eat just a tiny bite of your favorite ice cream, don't go and bring a gallon into your home. Too much temptation to eat the whole carton.

GSD:My concern is regarding all the things that you have listed. He wants to see me all the time and I think he wants a committed relationship with me right now. I have told him I am not ready for that right now. He says he will respect that but then calls me everyday and asks me out everynight. I saw him last night and will see him tonight. I really should have just said I will see him one or the other but I wimped out. I did tell him that I couldn't see him tomorrow because I needed some time to myself and had made plans with my sister and he said ok but then said he might stop by the party that my sister and I are going to at the church. So, now I need to tell him I really need this time alone with my sister and I prefer that he not stop by for my sake and her sake. She is already mad at me for going out with him twice this weekend. She is mad that I can't keep things slow and stand up for myself. We talked about this today and I told her that I was trying and she needs to cut me a little slack. She said she was sorry for yelling at me and knows that she needs to stop trying to be my protector but she just has such a hard time sitting back and watching me make the same mistakes again. What I really want right now is just to go out and be friends and have fun, talk and get to know each other. I have told him this a few times but I can tell he is ready for much more than that. So, maybe I should just call it quits on this one.However, there is a part of me that still wants the knight in shining armour to come along and rescue me. He has many of the qualities I want in a man. He is religious, a great father, honest, introspective, intelligent, financially secure, nice looking, funny, and complimentary. My concern is that I may be attracted to him for the wrong reasons. I find myself thinking here is a chance to get my dream life back. Marriage, companionship, love, nice home, ability to stay home with my kids, go to church on Sunday, etc. etc. etc. But, it is way too early for me to be thinking along those lines. I don't even know him yet. And, he is also thinking along those same lines and told me he thought I would make an awesome wife.So, I am trying to make sense of all of this. I should probably just end this relationship now because I am not ready for the same things he is at this time.

Hi GSD and 711,GSD got my analogy right about keeping the gallon of ice cream in the fridge and resisting the temptation to eat the whole gallon.I was trying (in my dry engineer way) to be funny when I said I got food poisening from the last batch.One good thing about working with all guys. I've seen and heard soooo many things, that the standard lines and tricks have no effect on me. If you are feeling pressured, then odds are pretty good he's being selfish. I mean, it's forgiveable, but please don't do anything because you feel SORRY for him. What we've all been through sucks, but you don't REALLY need rescuing do you? And you don't need to rescue someone else. That's not a good way to start a good relationship.When we are needy, we tend to project all kinds of wonderful qualities onto the other person that may really not exist.

711- The guy that I was seeing pretty much was going down the same road. He was recently divorced, too, though a bit longer than I. I didn't stop anything happening with us because I was reveling in the relationship, really liked him and the beauty of being with someone who was so wonderful. When he put the breaks on, he said (to this effect): I really care about you and I don't want to hurt you. I have grown distant a bit (he had) from when we first started going out. I'm sure you've noticed. Frankly, I need to focus on me right now. I don't want to feel like I am not giving you something that you need or that I am ignoring you. That's too much pressure. I found myself thinking "Oh my god, I'm 31.' I want a family and kids and all that jazz. But we don't need to be in any kind of hurry. I don't want you to think I was using you, either. And it's not about dating anyone else or anything. This just isn't healthy. I have been getting upset over my ex again. I really thought I had moved past it and was ready for something serious again. I am just not ready to get hurt like that again." I found his words to be right on the mark and respected him for them becuase I do believe that he was sincere. What he said made sense. We were seeing each other a few days a week, talking every day, spending a lot of time together. I began to wonder where the lines were: what were we? EXclusive yes, but was he my boyfriend? I mean, I didn't see him on Thanksgiving. So at any rate, there were questions and anxieties on both ends. Maybe his words will give you some ideas of what to say. He did say to me (very emphatically) that he still was going to call me and wanted to go out every now and then, Of course, he hasn't, but that is a different story. Maybe he "couldn't have the ice cream in thre fridge"??? I don't think it is as simple as he doesn't respect you. When feelings are involved, it's hard to turn them off and back down in order to do the healthy thing. Maybe that is a sign of the kind of mettle that this man is made of.

Thanks TS and GSD for your thoughts.Whew, relationships are so fun!! NOT!I tried to set a boundary today but did not do it the appropriate way. I chickened out and used email. Not, a good thing. He did not like it at all.So, we are now in the stages of ending our relationship. I should have handled the situation differently, but I didn't. However, I was able to get my point across. Bottomline, it is important that I keep to my boundaries this time and I don't think he is able to respect those. So, I am going back to what I know is best for me right now. SINGLE AND WORKING ON MYSELF!!

711Good for you. Maybe email wasn't a good way to go about it (I don't know the context of the message) but setting boundaries is right. (That's the phrase that I couldn't remember! SEtting boundaries.) Now that you say it, there's a book out there called _Boundaries in Dating__ by Clarke/Townsend (??)I think. It is only available in hardcover, I believe, and I've been too cheap to buy it. But I think I will. It is about keeping yourself when you enter a new relationship and not losing what you want for you. Have you ever heard of it? I think people here have mentioned the other boundaries book called BOundaries in Marriage.

I have read most of these posts, and am taking all advice. I think my marriage was so dysfunctional for so long, I felt as though I have been separated for years, but now I am officially separated for 3 months now, and I am in a relationship with a man, who is recently separated also. We have known eachother for a year - 2 years as social contacts, at first, but closer friends later on. Our time together is limited by our respective children, as they are our first priority. My question is, we have both discussed the rebound thing, and transitional thing............... but truly have a huge common ground. I feel as though I have run across enough men, and people in general to know what I have been lacking for so long, and that he holds alot of those qualities. I do not think I need to be alone, but could if I had to. I do not think dating other men would be of any benefit at this point, and we have both expressed the wish for a monogamous relationship. I am trying to go about this the right way, and obviously I have some very strong feelings for this man. I cannot believe our communication skills, there is never anything left to chance, feelings are put out there......things get said ,on both parts as opposed to being hidden. I guess I just wanted an opinion. Thanks

Well, nikkilynn2, it's obvious you're playing with fire, but not everyone who plays with fire gets burned.What I really want to point out, though, is that there is a difference between good communication and good communication skills. You don't need the skills until you run into trouble...

May I also point out that people who enter into marriages less than two years out of a divorce end up divorced again 85% of the time. I know you want to believe the statistics don't apply to you, but there they are. 15% odds aren't so hot. O-kay...I'll say this too. If you are separated, but not divorced, you are committing adultery IMO. So is this man. It doesn't matter how good you think your communication is now. Someday it might not be so good (as GnomedePlume suggests) and you will want someone who sticks to their vows. I'd hope you'd want someone who would expect you to stick to yours as well. Your story is not new or unique. We aren't telling you this to spoil your fun or because we don't want you to be "happy". There are very valid reasons for waiting. I wish I could explain them all to you, but I'm afraid you probably wouldn't listen. I have a funny story...when I was a pre-teen, my parents told me all of the stages I was going to go through when I became a teenager. I laughed and said "Now that I know what the stages are, I won't go through them!!" Guess what? I went through every damn stage they mentioned. Human nature is what it is. You might be one of the lucky ones. Maybe getting divorced again doesn't bother you that much, who knows? [This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited January 29, 2001).]

Nikkilynn:I know where you are coming from with all your feelings for this man right now. I have been there too and am fighting with those issues right now. Right now, you probably aren't really going to listen to advice because everything just seems to be going so well, but nothing lasts in that stage forever. So, just try to take it slow. I think it is hard to date at this age and keep things slow. Most of the people I meet want a serious relationship. I realize that I am not ready for that now. I would like that again eventually but not now. I don't want be divorced again. I went way too fast in my first relationship.

Thanks guys......but hold the horses!! I am not intending to get married right away!!!! I do not believe in my heart that I am commiting adultery either. My husband has moved on with his life already, and there is no hope for reconciliation on either part. I am happy he is gone, I feel like I have finally gotten rid of a huge bag of stress in my life, not that I havent replaced it with the stress of single parenting. I have had a million conversations with the new man in my life about how do we keep this safe for both of us? I believe we are both so afraid of making a stupid decision , it will take us a long time to make it.I can see why 2 years is a reasonable amount of time to do this. I am still in counseling guys, so I do appreciate and listen to the advice. I have been in counseling for about 12 months....trust me, I had issues from childhood, and from staying in a marriage too long that was severly dysfunctional. I know right now I think I know what I am doing, and it could look different in 6 months..... so I think I am old and wise enough to keep that all in mind. I was married for 15 years, and spent half of them figuring out what was wrong.I am not impulsive , but I will say we all do stupid things, and I am not above them. I can only hope my judgement hasn't failed me now, and watch for signs that I need to keep my boundaries intact. Thanks for the input

I agree with the wise person who said when feelings are involved, one has a tendency not to do the healthy thing. I am a prime example of what not to do. I do career counseling for divorced and separated...I have heard more horror stories than I can remember. I know the statistics, the danger of dating too soon. When my marriage fell apart I was no better off than the clients I counseled. In some ways I felt worse off because there is something to that saying "ignorance is bliss." Anyway, I got involved with someond who also was going through a painful divorce. In the beginning I was careful, but then I did what so many of us do when we aren't sure. I justified the whole thing. We had so much in common, we were married the same amount of years, separated for the same, we understood each other, we were crazy about each other, etc. Everyone told me, slow down, be careful, run away as fast as you can!! I told everyone I was taking things slow, I knew what I was doing, everything was great....Quess what? I was moving a break neck speed, everything was great...I felt alive and wonderful... and then I crashed and burned; the whole mess blew up in my face. This man was not ready for a relationship...I believe he wanted to be, but he just couldn't. I knew this from the very first moment, but I chose not to pay attention to it. I knew I was playing with fire, but I did it anyway...hoping our rebound would be the one to win. It didn't happen. Instead, I had to deal with more hurt and pain. I have no one to blame but myself. I knew better. I, too, needed to get my life on secure footing again. Would I do it again? Probably. The four months we did see each other was the one positive thing that was happening in my life at the time. Was it worth all the hurt afterward? No. The pain of a divorce and the pain of a broken relationship don't mix too well. I know one thing, you can warn people, tell them to run, hide, take it slow, but after feeling bad for so long and then meeting someone who makes you feel like a teenager again...it is intoxicating and dangerous. Proceed with caution.

Lonely Soul:I related so much to what you said. Especially the last line:"after feeling so bad for so long and then meeting someone who makes you feel like a teenager again . . . it is intoxicating and dangerous."That described my whirlwird romance after my divorce to a tee.

711:How long was your whirlwind romance and how long did it take you to recover your balance? I'm still struggling with it.

Lonelysoul:It lasted 6 months and I am not completely over it. We parted on good terms. Some issues came up that I needed to deal with and he understood. We have talked about checking in with each other in about 6 months. We still email now and then but I haven't heard from him in a few weeks. I still think of him often. It was difficult breaking up and there were a lot of tears over it all. That's the part we both hated so much. We knew it probably wouldn't last but we hoped we might be able to beat the odds because we had so much in common, had lots of fun together and incredible chemistry. It really was like being in highschool for me again. I was with my x for 18 years and before that my highschool sweetheart. So, this was really only the 3rd man I have seriously dated in my life. I have dated since but I am very cautious now and have set up boundaries that I am not willing to cross this time around. I'm not sure if that is because I am stronger now or because the chemistry is just not the same.

711,I have only 'skimmed' through some of the responses here, so if this has already been mentioned, I apologize. When it comes to setting boundaries within a relationship, try to do it as early as possible and be as open as possible when you do it. Also, any ‘true’ man that is interested in you will respect those boundaries and will wait on the physical stuff until you are ready. You should take it as a compliment when you find a guy that wants to spend a lot of time with you, but if he is really trying to rush things, having the boundaries established early should help. And if you happen to be dating a guy who seems to lose interest because you won’t sleep with him quick enough, let him go. It is very true that most guys think about sex (almost as much as women), but if he really cares about YOU and is interested in a lasting relationship, the quest for physical intimacy can be put on the back burner. It is possible. Don’t get suckered into believing it’s not!

Jayhawk:Thanks for the male perspective on this!!!I did set up boundaries very clearly in the beginning and you have hit the nail on the head as to one of the boundaries this man wants to cross. He says he is willing to wait but I am feeling pressured. I agree that a man can wait if he really respects and likes the woman. We actually had a disagreement regarding another boundary about my spending time with my girlfriends. He felt that was a rejection of him. The way he responded kind of iced this relationship for me. He still wants to date but I don't think I want to anymore. Other things aren't going as well as I wanted either. I still go to group therapy and last night the group said I shouldn't feel bad about breaking my "no dating" rule. They thought I should be dating now. Just much slower and wiser this time.I just printed out your post about spouses admitting their mistakes. I still have one tiny part of me thinking I might take him back one day. SO, I am interested in reading through that post.

711, I am going through a D right now and the LAST thing I want is to bring a new person into my mixed up situation. But, the example I want to use is my business partner, who is also going through a divorce.Two weeks after leaving his wife, he meets a girl and IMMEDIATLY begins a full blown relationship (sex, speanding the night, goin' steady, etc). Well, since his other relationship is still not dead (kids, divorce issues, financial, jealosies, etc), the poor new girl has walked into a buzz saw. My partner is running a 3 ring circus trying to keep all parties happy (kids, stbx, and new girlfriend) and what happened is no one's happy! The new GF is very nice and had my partner waited awaile for the dust to settle, they could have had a good potential relationship. But, since it was too soon, it seems doomed to end miserably. WAIT A WHILE! For all of your sakes. How long is up to you and the common sense that applies to your situation! Good Luck, T.J.

Tom Jones:I wasn't sure if you realized that I am already divorced. It was final last May. At that time, many people told me I shouldn't date for a while but I did anyway. Now it has almost been a year and most people think I should date but that I need to just take it very slow and make my boundaries clear from the start. Having said all of that, do you still recommend waiting and why?

God, I can't believe I am saying this, but Nikkilynn, I think that it's probably too soon. I don't know your entire situation (and neither do most of us) but believe me when I say that nothing is like mixing the pain and adjustment of a divorce with the pain of a new breakup. There is so much to learn about you. Just take it easy. I feel sort of hypocritical giving this advice, but I believe it heart and soul. (Though sometimes I don't want to [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

.

Hi Jen,You have a good thread going! Lots of interesting outlooks and opinions. Jersey Joe, Its been a long time since I've seen you on the boards, hope you will be off to a better start this year. My former name on the boards was lonelymom if you don't recognize my name.Lonelysoul, I can relate to your story as well, I was in that same situation last summer. It takes a few months after it ends, to really figure it out, but I know I wasn't ready either. Of course everyone told me to be careful but after the devesatation of an affair, it is hard. Hope you are doing well now.NikkiLynn, I would agree with the rest be very careful. I still believe everyone heals a little different, or at different speeds, but I was in the situation Lonelysoul was , it sounds like I could have wrote it myself, but I didn't. It's hard to walk away, I don't deny that, but maybe if that is not an option you want, than to be very careful and super slow. Hugs, Dana

I have this "fantasy", and maybe it is just a "fantasy", that there are men out there who are just as hesitant about sex happening too soon in a relationship as well.It seems to me that if a guy comes out and says "I'm willing to wait", then he's thrown the ball in our court. Ok. Maybe that doesn't sound so bad--on the surface. But what about HIS morals, character, and need for a certain level of trust/intimacy before sex? I'd like to think that a man I'd want to be intimate with someday isn't going to "give it up" for the first woman who is nice to him.When a guy says "I'll wait till you're ready", it's like he'd be having sex with you ASAP, no problemo, no moral crisis about hurting you (or himself). Uh-uh. No thanks.What I'd rather hear is something more like..."Even though I'm attracted to you, we both need to get to know each other very well before we take that step." Or something along those lines. I'd like to think that men have boundaries too. Silly me....711, I'd be feeling pressured too. Like, everytime you go on a date, I have this image of him drumming his fingers on the table...."I'm Waaaaaaiting. ooook. Now?.....How about...Now?....or....now?" [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited January 31, 2001).]

Well, I feel the need to echo Jayhawks sentiments. But for me it wouldn't be a matter of just waiting until she's "ready". I want the next time I'm intimate with someone to be very, VERY special. I'm not interested in just getting ****, I don't think that's very difficult. It's important to me that this next experience is a manifestation of the deep personal feelings we have for one another and represents our commitment to each other emotionally.I guess what I'm fantasizing about is a healthy, serious, romantic relationship that one day "spontaneously combusts". Anything else I think would be a major let down.I guess it's a good thing my interest in sex has dried up [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

TS:Good point. Thanks for the laugh too!Nick:Well said. Bottomline, I don't want sex without a committed relationship and I don't want a committed relationship right now. I'm still not ready for that. Having just gotten out of an 18 year relationship/marriage, I don't need to be tied down right away. I would like to just go out and have fun right now and get to know people. I want to spend time by myself, with friends, and with men too. Hopefully, that is possible. If I keep my boundaries this time, it is. The people who want something more, will move on. The people who want the same thing as me, will probably stay around if they enjoy my company.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheStudent: I have this "fantasy", and maybe it is just a "fantasy", that there are men out there who are just as hesitant about sex happening too soon in a relationship as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No sex outside of marriage for me. Period. It's not worth the psychological cost or the impediment to the trust that's so important in a marriage.

I think it is easy to say I would never get involved, I would never have sex without a committment, I would never, etc, when there isn't anyone in your life you want to be involved with on an emotional and physical level. The problem happens when you are a little starved for affection on an emotional and physical level and along comes someone who literally blows you away. For a lot of us, this feeling is alien and is unexpected. I know after all the hurt I have been through this past year...I was totally off of any emotional entanglement. Well, life has a way of making you eat your words. I did the direct opposite of what I said I would never do. Never say never. I am paying the consequences just like I knew I would.

ditto Lonely Soulword for word

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul: I think it is easy to say I would never get involved, I would never have sex without a committment, I would never, etc, when there isn't anyone in your life you want to be involved with on an emotional and physical level. The problem happens when you are a little starved for affection on an emotional and physical level and along comes someone who literally blows you away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's why it's so important to establish boundaries for yourself and stick to them. And why it's important to establish those boundaries far back from the line of temptation.I've been unexpectedly blown away by someone who came along. And I've been swept away to the point where I crossed boundaries I had established for myself. But those were only the boundaries I had established to protect the boundaries that I felt really mattered, and that boundary-crossing served as an effective warning to me to back off before I did something I would actually regret.You've got to be careful!

GDP,I feel the same way as you do. I can't imagine getting remarried, and hence, sex is out of the question for the foreseeable future.I've toned it down for the general population.

GNP: Your definition of boundry crossing sounds like double speak to me. I can't tell whether you crossed them or not. That is not to say you shouldn't have boundries, but everyone is different and sets their own according to what is comfortable for them. I know you have to be careful.[This message has been edited by Lonelysoul (edited February 01, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul: Your definition of boundry crossing sounds like double speak to me. I can't tell whether you crossed them or not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let me put it this way. I've got two sets of boundaries: the "real" ones I believe would be wrong, damaging, or foolish to cross; and the ones I set up as artificial "rules" for myself to keep me from getting anywhere close to the "real" boundaries. If I find myself tempted to break one of those "rules", this serves as a warning to me to back off, get out, or do whatever else may be appropriate. If I actually break one of those rules, I set up new rules for myself to protect myself from doing so again in the future.This strategy has served me well. Perhaps it is a bit paranoid, but the only reason I believe I can trust myself to do the right thing is because I do not believe I can trust myself to do the right thing by strength of will alone. I am too good at rationalizing my actions to myself.I have very few regrets in life because I have made it a habit to analyze and learn from other people's mistakes (as well as my own). No doubt we all have lessons we can only learn through experience. But there's a reason that's called learning "the hard way".

GDP:Two sets of boundries; real and artificial? So, if your boundry is no sex before marriage you make sure you are not tempted by setting up your imitation boundry? I imagine for some this may work. I think you may miss out on quite a bit of living if you never feel comfortable to take a chance. I am not merely talking about sex. I, too have learned a lot from others mistakes and from my own. I also have learned from others that sometimes the illogical does work.

GDP,I understand what you are saying. It's like you have a car alarm that warns anyone touching your car to stay away, and then a door lock, keeping most people from entering your car, then an ignition key, which would keep even fewer people from actually starting your car and driving off in it.The "easy" boundaries are the warning signals. People get into problems when they don't pay attention to the warning signals, and let subsequent boundaries fall away. Been there, done that.Another thing that makes it easier for me (now) is that I understand that "blowing me away" has no basis in reality. It's like going to Disneyworld for the first time when I was a kid. Back then I thought it was all real. As a grownup, I know how they create those illusions and I'm not so blown away anymore. What's interesting is that I enjoy Disneyworld just as much now as when I was a kid....even though I know how all the rides work [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul: I think you may miss out on quite a bit of living if you never feel comfortable to take a chance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's not the way it works. It's like the children in a playground next to a busy street being afraid to use the area near the street until a fence is put up. If you pre-establish rules for yourself, then when you find yourself in a risky situation you don't have to be distracted by questions about whether you are acting wisely or not.

TS:I disagree with your analogy of knowing how the rides work at Disneyworld and being blown away by someone. For some of us, that feeling of complete connectedness with someone is reality...not everything has a scientific answer and reason.In one of your posts you said you were an INTJ...I don't want to get back on that; however, when I was going through my training for MBTI the instructor commented on INTJ's. Out of 16 types that particular one is known as the academic...that type is prone to being highly analytical and not interested in the physical, but more interested in the mental. One of my co-worker's, who was with me, is an INTJ. She was asked point blank about sex...if she enjoyed it because historically INTJ's don't care that much about the physical aspect of it much. Anyway, my point of all that is, your pro-celibacy could stem from who you are and how you see the world...which is fine for you. For some of us, we don't care how the ride works, we are enjoying the experience and wonder of it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul: One of my co-worker's, who was with me, is an INTJ. She was asked point blank about sex...if she enjoyed it because historically INTJ's don't care that much about the physical aspect of it much. Anyway, my point of all that is, your pro-celibacy could stem from who you are and how you see the world...which is fine for you. For some of us, we don't care how the ride works, we are enjoying the experience and wonder of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As an INTP/INTX who is extremely analytical to the degree that I have never been able to stop observing/analyzing/thinking, even in the midst of extremely emotional and aesthetic experiences, let me just say that I care a great deal about the physical aspect of sex as well as the intimacy and wonder of it. In fact, it is that marvelously wholistic experience of emotional/spiritual/physical intimacy and wonder that has reinforced my commitment not to settle for anything less in my future (assuming for the moment that I have a sexual future).As a musician, there was a time when I didn't want to study music because I was afraid it would cease to have as much meaning for me if I were to turn it into an intellectual exercise. Instead, my experience has been that the more I have understand about music, the more I have been able to appreciate it at all levels.Make of this what you will.

This subject has been going through my mind a lot as I was told about the “one year rule” myself and I didn’t want to follow it. I went in search of an old post where I had stated the following and feel that it is appropriate here to bring this back up. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I can believe that men are more apt to start dating before women after a divorce, as it's probably in our nature. And I can understand the thinking that the 'good' ones will be snatched up quick, but you have to keep the 'rebound' factor in mind. Being honest with myself, I know a few things:1. I am very lonely 2. I miss female companionship 3. I feel very rejected 4. I feel betrayed 5. I miss the physical touch 6. I miss intimacy 7. My self esteem has dropped 8. My self doubt has risen 9. My attitude is sometimes questionable 10. I am still in love with my wifeNow without sounding too conceded, which is going to be impossible by this next statement, but I am one of the great guys who will soon be available and I WOULD NOT date me [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

. Based on my short list above, how could I possibly be a good prospect coming out of the gate? Any one of those 10 issues should raise a red flag regarding my own ability to distinguish my feelings while in a relationship. Just imagine how hard it will be for me to figure out my true feelings with ALL 10 of those issues looming over my head. I'll probably fall head over heels for the first woman who smiles at me and touches my arm! At least I feel that I am wise enough to know what I'm feeling here and am willing to accept these feeling for what they are. Over time, I will get past all of these issues and will be able to get into a relationship where I know I'm there for the right reasons, but it will take time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now for a bit of an update into my dating experience since my divorce. Keeping my above list in mind, I started dating a woman who is 15 years older then me and who has also been divorced now for two years. I have been honest with her about my feelings and we have discussed the issues on my “list.” Luckily, she has been through all of this herself and has been very understanding of what I am dealing with. I created this list before my divorce and now that I have started to date, I can honestly say that this list is 100% dead accurate. Seeing someone new has helped me with a few issues on the list, but most of them are still very real. I am understanding more and more why someone should be alone for awhile following a divorce.

Jayhawk:I remember that list because I printed it out the last time you posted that to me. In fact, I discussed it with my last boyfriend. #10 I think has got to be the biggest stumbling block for you. It is not as much for me for many reasons that I won't go into here (plus I have already in so many other posts). The guy I have just started dating has been divorced for quite some time and told me he understands exactly where I am too. But, I still think he wants me to be further along emotionally than I am capable of right now. I think it is good to date someone who has been through all of this but I also think that all the discussions regarding relationships, etc. takes away from just the fun of going out, etc. I would love to just go out and not talk about any of this stuff. I do enough of that here and on my own. Plus, I need to make sure we can communicate on other issues besides relationships and why they fail, succeed, etc.

lonelysoul,I thought GDP was offering you ideas about how to maintain your boundaries. We're not telling you what your boundaries should be. On one hand, you explain how you got "blown away" and didn't necessarily like the outcome, then resent it when we give you strategies to avoid it in the future. You're not a victim. I think you understand very well about the boundaries you let slip away. So ok. You took a chance. That's fine. Would you like to figure out how to make better choices next time, or would you rather slam me and GDP for being celibate right now? Did it occur to you that the strategies we use to keep our commitments to ourselves might come in handy to you?My impression is that you believe that knowledge of a subject decreases one's enjoyment. My pro-celibacy stance has nothing to do with my enjoyment of sex. I enjoyed it immensely when I was married (just ask my ex [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

). I enjoyed it so much, that I consider it a noteworthy accomplishment on my part to be celibate right now. Go figure!It is not accurate for you to assume that disciplined people (or those who wish to be disciplined) naturally must have no desire, or don't have a life, and can't "take a chance." Basically, you are implying that me and GDP must not have your desires, or needs, or maybe that I'm some kind of analytical freak because I'm able to be celibate. In fact, I enjoy the "connectedness" so much, that I'm willing to wait for the real thing--which to me is a commitment. Why load up on potato chips for lunch, when you know that you are having filet mignon for dinner, and a banana split for dessert, and nice cognac to follow up? None of are judging your choices or trying to tell you what to do with your life. You expressed some dissatisfaction with your past choices, and we were trying to help. That's all.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheStudent: Why load up on potato chips for lunch, when you know that you are having filet mignon for dinner, and a banana split for dessert, and nice cognac to follow up? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm sorry I couldn't resist this one [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I'll have to check the next time I'm at Ruth's Chris to see if a banana split is on the menu [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

An interesting gastronomic combination to say the least! Could I exchange a Cohiba for the banana split?------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

Hi cooker,I was pretty hungry when I wrote that. The banana split was my dessert of choice that night. Usually, it is cheesecake. Any flavor. Or anything chocolate. What is a Cohiba? Oh, tonight I'll be eating hot chicken wings and drinking a green apple martini (vodka with sour apple shnapps). How's that for a combo? And for the record folks, I was a very strict vegetarian for about 7 years. Not even meat broth in anything. No fish, chicken, shellfish, nothing for close to a decade. So, I think some of you might notice that I don't say that I will NEVER have sex again. The discipline of total celibacy is right for me at this time, and who knows, may stay that way for a very, very long time.Jayhawk, So, you're dating a woman 15 yrs your senior huh? Hubba-hubba. And here I felt like a dirty-old-woman checking out the crew team at the gym the other night. There is one hottie on the team that is very obviously checking me out when I go do my rowing. Anyway, I am enjoying the view, nonetheless. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Here's an opportunity to illustrate my idea of boundaries. This guy who is checking me out at the gym...I've got a pretty good idea how old he is. He can't be any older than 22-25. I'm 36. Now, sexually, I could have a whole lot of fun with this guy. I'm sure I could teach him a thing or two as well, compared to the 20 somethings he's been hanging with. He might even be a good person, I don't know. But figure the odds of a sustained relationship with someone his age and someone my age. Not likely, right? Even if it were likely, I'm not interested in making a commitment, so that's out too. Since I'm not even interested in a fling, then getting involved with him is a bad idea. Going out on a "date" one-on-one is a bad idea. Even TALKING to him at the gym is a bad idea. It's obvious there is "chemistry" there (I think he's cute, he thinks I'm cute), so why even start down that path? [This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited February 02, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheStudent: Here's an opportunity to illustrate my idea of boundaries. This guy who is checking me out at the gym...Since I'm not even interested in a fling, then getting involved with him is a bad idea. Going out on a "date" one-on-one is a bad idea. Even TALKING to him at the gym is a bad idea. It's obvious there is "chemistry" there (I think he's cute, he thinks I'm cute), so why even start down that path?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've had crushes on quite a few girls and women, even ones I didn't like or respect. Having a crush is fun, and I don't need to act on it to enjoy the feelings. My boundaries make it easy for me to laugh a little at myself and enjoy the feelings without having to worry about getting myself into trouble.

I think the reason why it is so important to be on you own is because you need that time to heal and learn from the mistakes made. Also, during a seperation and divorce alot of changes have occured in yourself-you become a different person (at least I know I have) Also, you will give this new relationship your all. When you meet someone new you owe it to them to have closure and stability. The last thing I need right now is to worry about another mans problems. H and OW's famous saying is they have enough of their own problems to worry about each other. (I wonder actually how good their relationship really is??) I know when and if I start up a new relationship that I think so much of that person that I will try to give them my all and they deserve that and I would want the same respect and thoughtfulness from them. Give and you shall receive...

I guess the hard thing for me right now is determining when you are ready to date. I feel I am ready to date but just not ready for a serious relationship. Is that possible in this day and age? Is it unfair? The few men I have dated have wanted a serious relationship even though they knew I wasn't ready for that. Should you only start dating when your ready for a serious relationship?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 711: Should you only start dating when your ready for a serious relationship?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's my opinion. There are already so many opportunities for social interaction that I don't think it's overly burdensome to treat dating as the courtship ritual it so often ends up being.

Actually, I wouldn't mind going out for coffee or something rather innocuous like that. Then again that probably wouldn't qualify as "dating". If someone starts out a relationship by looking for something to turn "serious", I think they are exerting pressure to force a relationship to develop a certain way. Doesn't seem too healthy to me. I'd be far more interested in meeting someone, discovering if there are any mutual interests and going out and doing some of them together. If it turned out that they were fun to be with, then I would continue seeing them and see what happens. I suspect that it's really difficult (my dating inexperience is showing) because I'm sure feelings develop at different rate from person to person.This is a pretty complicated subject. I wonder if there is an Interpersonal relationships 101 course at the community college...BTW, Stu, a Cohiba is a very nice cigar (even the ones that aren't from Cuba)------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited February 02, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trs: I know when and if I start up a new relationship that I think so much of that person that I will try to give them my all and they deserve that ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And. . .are we really ready to give to someone else what we are just now learning to give ourselves?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by c00ker: Actually, I wouldn't mind going out for coffee or something rather innocuous like that. Then again that probably wouldn't qualify as "dating". If someone starts out a relationship by looking for something to turn "serious", I think they are exerting pressure to force a relationship to develop a certain way. Doesn't seem too healthy to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I completely agree. My point is not that dating should be a deliberate or forced attempt to develop a relationship in a particular way, just that when you start dating you can't predict how it will go, so you had better be prepared for feelings and intimacy to develop.Going out for coffee is a gray area. I think it's a judgement call in any particular case as to whether it constitutes a "date" or not. For me, a situation like that would just serve as a caution flag, warning me to be careful not to send any of the wrong signals.

There's something you'all are forgetting, and that's the real reason why it is important to be on our own for a while. Trs wrote: "Also, you will give this new relationship your all. When you meet someone new you owe it to them to have closure and stability. I know when and if I start up a new relationship that I think so much of that person that I will try to give them my all and they deserve that and I would want the same respect and thoughtfulness from them. Give and you shall receive." Everything Trs says is true, but the reason why it is important to be on our own for a while is for the time when WE meet someone, WE eventually let ourself love them, WE give our all . . . and they don't. It's funny, because many of the people responding here kind of assume that when they finally meet someone wonderful and funny and smart, and that person shows some interest and affection back toward them, that there will be a wonderful, almost magical bond because now we KNOW what we didn't back then. Well, the reason it is important to have time on our own is so that when our first try at romance or dating works out at first (for a week or a month), and then there's a breakup, that we don't lose it. We don't lose our identity, we don't lose our self-esteem, and we don't lose our sense of direction. I'm not trying to be a bummer here, but did any of you end up marrying the first person you went on a date with when you were a kid? How about the first person you had a serious romance with? Me neither. I have not love many in my lifetime, but I have loved and lost a couple, and it is important to have a sense of yourself and your value--and since the loss of a marriage is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE esteem-buster, it takes time TO OURSELVES to regain that. I have had a couple of attempts at loving someone and both ended--one with a lifelong, true friend and one just ended. But if I had not had some time to know who I am, how valuable I am, and where I was headed, both could have been devastating. It is direly important to take some time to get our SELVES build back up, get back on track, get our own identities back, get our OWN self-esteem, and get our own general sense of direction in our own life. ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited February 02, 2001).]

GDP, I'm thinking that if I talk to the guy in the gym, it will spoil my little fantasy. Just looking at him is enough entertainment for me [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

711, When a guy tells me he's ready for a "serious relationship" and he hardly knows me, that is code for "I want sex." Most people don't have problems bringing sex into the relationship during the "getting to know you" stage (unlike me). Most of my co-workers don't think a woman is interested in them unless they've had sex within the first month of "dating". Me and a friend of mine laughed about the "three date rule", for instance. I have to agree with GDP about the fact that there are many opportunities to socialize and enjoy the company of the opposite sex without the pressure of "dating". I gave you a few good examples of things to do around Atlanta that involve organized group activities. They aren't single's groups either. Just a bunch of people getting together to share a common interest.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife: I'm not trying to be a bummer here, but did any of you end up marrying the first person you went on a date with when you were a kid? How about the first person you had a serious romance with?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Er, well, actually...yes. And yes. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I have not love many in my lifetime, but I have loved and lost a couple, and it is important to have a sense of yourself and your value--and since the loss of a marriage is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE esteem-buster, it takes time TO OURSELVES to regain that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Your point is very valid, FaithfulWife, but the esteem issue is still just one of the reasons to take some time for ourselves. The need to salvage self-esteem is also one of the reasons why it is so important to do everything possible to save our marriages.

Touche!My main point, though, was that we need time to ourselves to become more substantial in entirety. Thus, when the time comes, we are more than just a "wife" or "mother" (or in the guy's cases "husband" or "father"); we are rebuilding our own selves by our own definition. We are gaining (or regaining) our own personal power. BTW, how cool that you married the first person you ever went out with! That's unique! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

CJ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife: My main point, though, was that we need time to ourselves to become more substantial in entirety. Thus, when the time comes, we are more than just a "wife" or "mother" (or in the guy's cases "husband" or "father"); we are rebuilding our own selves by our own definition. We are gaining (or regaining) our own personal power.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is a very good point. In fact, I believe this is exactly what my wife needs to do, if she could only see it. She went straight from her parents' (well, her mother's) home to mine and never got the chance to prove to herself that she could make it on her own. Also, one of the problems in our marriage was that we allowed our boundaries to become too enmeshed, taking too much responsibility for each other's feelings. A time on her own, to establish her own identity, would be very good for my wife, I think.But I don't quite see how it's beneficial for her to try to destroy me in the process... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>BTW, how cool that you married the first person you ever went out with! That's unique! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, not quite unique. And it happened kind of by accident. I never dated in high school, and I didn't plan to date in college either (since I didn't even want to even think about marriage until after I graduated), but then I became friends with this really sweet girl, and after a while nobody believed us when we said we weren't dating...The problem, I guess, was that I never made a rule for myself not to date. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Hmmmm. Lots to consider here.I do feel like I have gained back my self esteem. I do feel that I am ok on my own now. I actually look forward to my nights where I have no one around and can read or do whatever. I also like going out with my girlfriends. I have been able to set boundaries this time around and I am not desperate to be with a man anymore for my happiness. I know I can be happy on my own. I am happy now. More happy than I have been in a long long time. I think that is a very good sign. I have joined a women's tennis team, a single's mom group and an all women bible study. I have enjoyed meeting so many new women and talking about other things besides relationships. So, I feel I am finally at a point that I am able to just date and not get too serious. It sounds like I can find out who the good guys by whether they respect my boundaries. If I let those go, I'll never know for sure what they were really after. I am not saying that I will now be a perfect angel who never will make a mistake. That would be quite a stretch for me. But, I feel that I can stand my own now and not be manipulated by men.TS and any others: Will you please respond with all the lines men use on us naive women who are just dating for the first time in 18 years and have only seriously dated 3 men in their life. Just in case, I fall into the hands of the wrong guy.

1) I think I'm falling in love with you (when they hardly know you) 2) You're the ONE (when they hardly know you) 3) Where have you been all my life? (when they hardly know you)I'm sure you've had a solicitor call your house and give you a line that sounded just too good to be true. Anytime someone promises you something that they obviously haven't spent alot of time thinking about, or they profess some deep feelings (but amazingly can't remember what you just said yesterday...hmmm. Are they really getting to know YOU?)...To me, the key is consistency. I don't think most people (men or women) actually bold faced lie. They actually mean what they say--at the time. For me, the key is being around them long enough to see if their words and actions are consistent. I wanted to tell you this...Bravo on your last adventure. You're getting better at this. As "nice" as this other guy might have been, he didn't have your best interests at heart. I think you handled it pretty well. Well, except the e-mail part. I can understand why you did it that way. I've done things that way myself. Mostly when I was afraid I'd cave in if I didn't do it any other way. The biggest thing I've learned from all of this is that it is pretty easy to wine and dine someone. Don't get too swept away by all the romance stuff (flowers, nice dinners, etc.) Does he really listen to you? Does he appreciate your experiences in life? I this a person you would have as a friend (regardless of gender)? Get to know his friends. Are they people you would like to know better or have as friends? Often, their friends will give you an insight into their personality very quickly. Getting to know the family is helpful too, but people can't really choose their family. But people do choose their friends. If you don't like his friends, odds are you won't like him in the long run either.[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited February 03, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheStudent: 1) I think I'm falling in love with you (when they hardly know you) 2) You're the ONE (when they hardly know you) 3) Where have you been all my life? (when they hardly know you)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wow, I was hoping the guys out there could come up with something better than those [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Either I'm taking this dating thing way too seriously, are there are a lot of guys out there who are thinking with the wrong cranium. There is so much more I'm interested in right now than sex. I rank it right down there with whether or not she likes mustard on her egg rolls [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

, but I'm sure time will change that.I certainly agree with your ideas about meeting people. Now if it would just warm up enough to get out on the road. R------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

Hi Cooker,That was the best I could come up with and just off the top of my head. A big warning sign to me are people (men or women) or need a relationship (friendship or otherwise) more than they want to get to know me. It is not something I can put into words, it is just a feeling that something just isn't right. What they are saying and doing just doesn't jibe, and it applies to any circumstance.

Thanks TS for the bravo. I surprised quite a few of my family and friends with my ability to set boundaries this time. My support group said they have seen a tremendous change in me over the last few months. One of my sisters (I have 4)was thrilled to see that I was now making decisions on my own and not being so dependent on the approval of others before I made my final decisions. She was also glad that I finally stood up to my other sister and told her that she needed to stop parenting me. I know I have only been on my own for a little while but I have found it very helpful. I feel so much stronger and know that I can be on my own.As to the lines, I have heard "I think I'm falling in love with you", "I am a little smitten with you", "Watch out, I'm falling fast". It sounds good when you hear it but I am now seeing through that. I know it's not possible to win someone's heart that easy and that fast.As to the man I was dating, he is a pretty good guy and I have met his friends and they were very nice. He is a member of a large church in my area and we have had many lengthy discussions about religion and relationships. Probably too many at this juncture. I have differing views on religion. I am much more liberal than he is. He had invited me to a wine tasting several weeks ago and I said I would still go to that next week. I would like to still see him if we can just take this slow. He is somebody that I think could be a great friend and maybe more some day. But, right now, I'm not so sure. Since neither of us handled the boundary situation last week in the best way, I hate to rule him out by his reaction. I do believe in second chances. So, we will see what happens next week. If I find that he is still pressuring for me for more, than I will have to call if quits.Nick - When you're ready to get out there, I think you are going to be a great catch. You sound so together. Jen[This message has been edited by 711 (edited February 03, 2001).][This message has been edited by 711 (edited February 03, 2001).]