This subject has been going through my mind a lot as I was told about the “one year rule” myself and I didn’t want to follow it. I went in search of an old post where I had stated the following and feel that it is appropriate here to bring this back up.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I can believe that men are more apt to start dating before women after a divorce, as it's probably in our nature. And I can understand the thinking that the 'good' ones will be snatched up quick, but you have to keep the 'rebound' factor in mind. Being honest with myself, I know a few things:<P>1. I am very lonely<BR>2. I miss female companionship<BR>3. I feel very rejected <BR>4. I feel betrayed<BR>5. I miss the physical touch<BR>6. I miss intimacy<BR>7. My self esteem has dropped<BR>8. My self doubt has risen<BR>9. My attitude is sometimes questionable<BR>10. I am still in love with my wife<P>Now without sounding too conceded, which is going to be impossible by this next statement, but I am one of the great guys who will soon be available and I WOULD NOT date me . Based on my short list above, how could I possibly be a good prospect coming out of the gate? Any one of those 10 issues should raise a red flag regarding my own ability to distinguish my feelings while in a relationship. Just imagine how hard it will be for me to figure out my true feelings with ALL 10 of those issues looming over my head. I'll probably fall head over heels for the first woman who smiles at me and touches my arm! At least I feel that I am wise enough to know what I'm feeling here and am willing to accept these feeling for what they are. Over time, I will get past all of these issues and will be able to get into a relationship where I know I'm there for the right reasons, but it will take time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now for a bit of an update into my dating experience since my divorce. Keeping my above list in mind, I started dating a woman who is 15 years older then me and who has also been divorced now for two years. I have been honest with her about my feelings and we have discussed the issues on my “list.” Luckily, she has been through all of this herself and has been very understanding of what I am dealing with. I created this list before my divorce and now that I have started to date, I can honestly say that this list is 100% dead accurate. Seeing someone new has helped me with a few issues on the list, but most of them are still very real. I am understanding more and more why someone should be alone for awhile following a divorce.<BR>

Jayhawk:<P>I remember that list because I printed it out the last time you posted that to me. In fact, I discussed it with my last boyfriend. #10 I think has got to be the biggest stumbling block for you. It is not as much for me for many reasons that I won't go into here (plus I have already in so many other posts). The guy I have just started dating has been divorced for quite some time and told me he understands exactly where I am too. But, I still think he wants me to be further along emotionally than I am capable of right now. I think it is good to date someone who has been through all of this but I also think that all the discussions regarding relationships, etc. takes away from just the fun of going out, etc. I would love to just go out and not talk about any of this stuff. I do enough of that here and on my own. Plus, I need to make sure we can communicate on other issues besides relationships and why they fail, succeed, etc.

lonelysoul,<P>I thought GDP was offering you ideas about how to maintain your boundaries. We're not telling you what your boundaries should be. <P>On one hand, you explain how you got "blown away" and didn't necessarily like the outcome, then resent it when we give you strategies to avoid it in the future. You're not a victim. I think you understand very well about the boundaries you let slip away. So ok. You took a chance. That's fine. Would you like to figure out how to make better choices next time, or would you rather slam me and GDP for being celibate right now? Did it occur to you that the strategies we use to keep our commitments to ourselves might come in handy to you?<P>My impression is that you believe that knowledge of a subject decreases one's enjoyment. My pro-celibacy stance has nothing to do with my enjoyment of sex. I enjoyed it immensely when I was married (just ask my ex ). I enjoyed it so much, that I consider it a noteworthy accomplishment on my part to be celibate right now. Go figure!<P>It is not accurate for you to assume that disciplined people (or those who wish to be disciplined) naturally must have no desire, or don't have a life, and can't "take a chance." Basically, you are implying that me and GDP must not have your desires, or needs, or maybe that I'm some kind of analytical freak because I'm able to be celibate. <P>In fact, I enjoy the "connectedness" so much, that I'm willing to wait for the real thing--which to me is a commitment. Why load up on potato chips for lunch, when you know that you are having filet mignon for dinner, and a banana split for dessert, and nice cognac to follow up? <P>None of are judging your choices or trying to tell you what to do with your life. You expressed some dissatisfaction with your past choices, and we were trying to help. That's all. <P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B> Why load up on potato chips for lunch, when you know that you are having filet mignon for dinner, and a banana split for dessert, and nice cognac to follow up? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm sorry I couldn't resist this one I'll have to check the next time I'm at Ruth's Chris to see if a banana split is on the menu An interesting gastronomic combination to say the least! Could I exchange a Cohiba for the banana split?<P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Hi cooker,<P>I was pretty hungry when I wrote that. The banana split was my dessert of choice that night. Usually, it is cheesecake. Any flavor. Or anything chocolate. What is a Cohiba? <P>Oh, tonight I'll be eating hot chicken wings and drinking a green apple martini (vodka with sour apple shnapps). How's that for a combo? <P>And for the record folks, I was a very strict vegetarian for about 7 years. Not even meat broth in anything. No fish, chicken, shellfish, nothing for close to a decade. So, I think some of you might notice that I don't say that I will NEVER have sex again. The discipline of total celibacy is right for me at this time, and who knows, may stay that way for a very, very long time.<P>Jayhawk,<BR>So, you're dating a woman 15 yrs your senior huh? Hubba-hubba. And here I felt like a dirty-old-woman checking out the crew team at the gym the other night. There is one hottie on the team that is very obviously checking me out when I go do my rowing. Anyway, I am enjoying the view, nonetheless. <P>Here's an opportunity to illustrate my idea of boundaries. This guy who is checking me out at the gym...I've got a pretty good idea how old he is. He can't be any older than 22-25. I'm 36. Now, sexually, I could have a whole lot of fun with this guy. I'm sure I could teach him a thing or two as well, compared to the 20 somethings he's been hanging with. He might even be a good person, I don't know. But figure the odds of a sustained relationship with someone his age and someone my age. Not likely, right? Even if it were likely, I'm not interested in making a commitment, so that's out too. Since I'm not even interested in a fling, then getting involved with him is a bad idea. Going out on a "date" one-on-one is a bad idea. Even TALKING to him at the gym is a bad idea. It's obvious there is "chemistry" there (I think he's cute, he thinks I'm cute), so why even start down that path? <P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited February 02, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>Here's an opportunity to illustrate my idea of boundaries. This guy who is checking me out at the gym...Since I'm not even interested in a fling, then getting involved with him is a bad idea. Going out on a "date" one-on-one is a bad idea. Even TALKING to him at the gym is a bad idea. It's obvious there is "chemistry" there (I think he's cute, he thinks I'm cute), so why even start down that path?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've had crushes on quite a few girls and women, even ones I didn't like or respect. Having a crush is fun, and I don't need to <I>act</I> on it to enjoy the feelings. My boundaries make it easy for me to laugh a little at myself and enjoy the feelings without having to worry about getting myself into trouble.<BR>

I think the reason why it is so important to be on you own is because you need that time to heal and learn from the mistakes made. Also, during a seperation and divorce alot of changes have occured in yourself-you become a different person (at least I know I have) Also, you will give this new relationship your all. When you meet someone new you owe it to them to have closure and stability. The last thing I need right now is to worry about another mans problems. H and OW's famous saying is they have enough of their own problems to worry about each other. (I wonder actually how good their relationship really is??) I know when and if I start up a new relationship that I think so much of that person that I will try to give them my all and they deserve that and I would want the same respect and thoughtfulness from them. Give and you shall receive...

I guess the hard thing for me right now is determining when you are ready to date. I feel I am ready to date but just not ready for a serious relationship. Is that possible in this day and age? Is it unfair? The few men I have dated have wanted a serious relationship even though they knew I wasn't ready for that. <P>Should you only start dating when your ready for a serious relationship?<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 711:<BR><B>Should you only start dating when your ready for a serious relationship?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's my opinion. There are already so many opportunities for social interaction that I don't think it's overly burdensome to treat dating as the courtship ritual it so often ends up being.<BR>

Actually, I wouldn't mind going out for coffee or something rather innocuous like that. Then again that probably wouldn't qualify as "dating". If someone starts out a relationship by looking for something to turn "serious", I think they are exerting pressure to force a relationship to develop a certain way. Doesn't seem too healthy to me. <P>I'd be far more interested in meeting someone, discovering if there are any mutual interests and going out and doing some of them together. If it turned out that they were fun to be with, then I would continue seeing them and see what happens. I suspect that it's really difficult (my dating inexperience is showing) because I'm sure feelings develop at different rate from person to person.<P>This is a pretty complicated subject. I wonder if there is an Interpersonal relationships 101 course at the community college...<P>BTW, Stu, a Cohiba is a very nice cigar (even the ones that aren't from Cuba)<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again<p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited February 02, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trs:<BR><B> I know when and if I start up a new relationship that I think so much of that person that I will try to give them my all and they deserve that ...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And. . .are we really ready to give to someone else what we are just now learning to give ourselves? <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by c00ker:<BR><B>Actually, I wouldn't mind going out for coffee or something rather innocuous like that. Then again that probably wouldn't qualify as "dating". If someone starts out a relationship by looking for something to turn "serious", I think they are exerting pressure to force a relationship to develop a certain way. Doesn't seem too healthy to me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I completely agree. My point is not that dating should be a deliberate or forced attempt to develop a relationship in a particular way, just that when you start dating you can't predict how it will go, so you had better be <I>prepared</I> for feelings and intimacy to develop.<P>Going out for coffee is a gray area. I think it's a judgement call in any particular case as to whether it constitutes a "date" or not. For me, a situation like that would just serve as a caution flag, warning me to be careful not to send any of the wrong signals.<BR>

There's something you'all are forgetting, and that's the real reason why it is important to be on our own for a while. <P>Trs wrote: "Also, you will give this new relationship your all. When you meet someone new you owe it to them to have closure and stability. I know when and if I start up a new relationship that I think so much of that person that I will try to give them my all and they deserve that and I would want the same respect and thoughtfulness from them. Give and you shall receive." Everything Trs says is true, but the reason why it is important to be on our own for a while is for the time when WE meet someone, WE eventually let ourself love them, WE give our all . . . and they don't. <P>It's funny, because many of the people responding here kind of assume that when they finally meet someone wonderful and funny and smart, and that person shows some interest and affection back toward them, that there will be a wonderful, almost magical bond because now we KNOW what we didn't back then. Well, the reason it is important to have time on our own is so that when our first try at romance or dating works out at first (for a week or a month), and then there's a breakup, that we don't lose it. We don't lose our identity, we don't lose our self-esteem, and we don't lose our sense of direction. <P>I'm not trying to be a bummer here, but did any of you end up marrying the first person you went on a date with when you were a kid? How about the first person you had a serious romance with? Me neither. I have not love many in my lifetime, but I have loved and lost a couple, and it is important to have a sense of yourself and your value--and since the loss of a marriage is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE esteem-buster, it takes time TO OURSELVES to regain that. <P>I have had a couple of attempts at loving someone and both ended--one with a lifelong, true friend and one just ended. But if I had not had some time to know who I am, how valuable I am, and where I was headed, both could have been devastating. It is direly important to take some time to get our SELVES build back up, get back on track, get our own identities back, get our OWN self-esteem, and get our own general sense of direction in our own life. <P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.<p>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited February 02, 2001).]

GDP,<BR>I'm thinking that if I talk to the guy in the gym, it will spoil my little fantasy. Just looking at him is enough entertainment for me <P>711,<BR>When a guy tells me he's ready for a "serious relationship" and he hardly knows me, that is code for "I want sex." Most people don't have problems bringing sex into the relationship during the "getting to know you" stage (unlike me). Most of my co-workers don't think a woman is interested in them unless they've had sex within the first month of "dating". Me and a friend of mine laughed about the "three date rule", for instance. <P>I have to agree with GDP about the fact that there are many opportunities to socialize and enjoy the company of the opposite sex without the pressure of "dating". I gave you a few good examples of things to do around Atlanta that involve organized group activities. They aren't single's groups either. Just a bunch of people getting together to share a common interest.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>I'm not trying to be a bummer here, but did any of you end up marrying the first person you went on a date with when you were a kid? How about the first person you had a serious romance with?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Er, well, actually...yes. And yes.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I have not love many in my lifetime, but I have loved and lost a couple, and it is important to have a sense of yourself and your value--and since the loss of a marriage is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE esteem-buster, it takes time TO OURSELVES to regain that.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your point is very valid, FaithfulWife, but the esteem issue is still just <I>one</I> of the reasons to take some time for ourselves. The need to salvage self-esteem is also one of the reasons why it is so important to do <I>everything possible</I> to save our marriages.<BR>

Touche!<P>My main point, though, was that we need time to ourselves to become more substantial in entirety. Thus, when the time comes, we are more than just a "wife" or "mother" (or in the guy's cases "husband" or "father"); we are rebuilding our own selves by our own definition. We are gaining (or regaining) our own personal power. <P>BTW, how cool that you married the first person you ever went out with! That's unique! <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>My main point, though, was that we need time to ourselves to become more substantial in entirety. Thus, when the time comes, we are more than just a "wife" or "mother" (or in the guy's cases "husband" or "father"); we are rebuilding our own selves by our own definition. We are gaining (or regaining) our own personal power.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is a very good point. In fact, I believe this is exactly what my wife needs to do, if she could only see it. She went straight from her parents' (well, her mother's) home to mine and never got the chance to prove to herself that she could make it on her own. Also, one of the problems in our marriage was that we allowed our boundaries to become too enmeshed, taking too much responsibility for each other's feelings. A time on her own, to establish her own identity, would be very good for my wife, I think.<P>But I don't quite see how it's beneficial for her to try to destroy me in the process...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>BTW, how cool that you married the first person you ever went out with! That's unique! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, not quite unique. And it happened kind of by accident. I never dated in high school, and I didn't <I>plan</I> to date in college either (since I didn't even want to even think about marriage until after I graduated), but then I became friends with this really sweet girl, and after a while nobody believed us when we said we weren't dating...<P>The problem, I guess, was that I never made a <I>rule</I> for myself not to date. <BR>

Hmmmm. Lots to consider here.<P>I do feel like I have gained back my self esteem. I do feel that I am ok on my own now. I actually look forward to my nights where I have no one around and can read or do whatever. I also like going out with my girlfriends. I have been able to set boundaries this time around and I am not desperate to be with a man anymore for my happiness. I know I can be happy on my own. I am happy now. More happy than I have been in a long long time. I think that is a very good sign. I have joined a women's tennis team, a single's mom group and an all women bible study. I have enjoyed meeting so many new women and talking about other things besides relationships. So, I feel I am finally at a point that I am able to just date and not get too serious. It sounds like I can find out who the good guys by whether they respect my boundaries. If I let those go, I'll never know for sure what they were really after. I am not saying that I will now be a perfect angel who never will make a mistake. That would be quite a stretch for me. But, I feel that I can stand my own now and not be manipulated by men.<P>TS and any others: Will you please respond with all the lines men use on us naive women who are just dating for the first time in 18 years and have only seriously dated 3 men in their life. Just in case, I fall into the hands of the wrong guy.

1) I think I'm falling in love with you (when they hardly know you)<BR>2) You're the ONE (when they hardly know you)<BR>3) Where have you been all my life? (when they hardly know you)<P>I'm sure you've had a solicitor call your house and give you a line that sounded just too good to be true. Anytime someone promises you something that they obviously haven't spent alot of time thinking about, or they profess some deep feelings (but amazingly can't remember what you just said yesterday...hmmm. Are they really getting to know YOU?)...To me, the key is consistency. I don't think most people (men or women) actually bold faced lie. They actually mean what they say--at the time. For me, the key is being around them long enough to see if their words and actions are consistent. <P>I wanted to tell you this...Bravo on your last adventure. You're getting better at this. As "nice" as this other guy might have been, he didn't have your best interests at heart. I think you handled it pretty well. Well, except the e-mail part. I can understand why you did it that way. I've done things that way myself. Mostly when I was afraid I'd cave in if I didn't do it any other way. <P>The biggest thing I've learned from all of this is that it is pretty easy to wine and dine someone. Don't get too swept away by all the romance stuff (flowers, nice dinners, etc.) Does he really listen to you? Does he appreciate your experiences in life? I this a person you would have as a friend (regardless of gender)? <P>Get to know his friends. Are they people you would like to know better or have as friends? Often, their friends will give you an insight into their personality very quickly. Getting to know the family is helpful too, but people can't really choose their family. But people do choose their friends. If you don't like his friends, odds are you won't like him in the long run either.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited February 03, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>1) I think I'm falling in love with you (when they hardly know you)<BR>2) You're the ONE (when they hardly know you)<BR>3) Where have you been all my life? (when they hardly know you)<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow, I was hoping the guys out there could come up with something better than those <P>Either I'm taking this dating thing way too seriously, are there are a lot of guys out there who are thinking with the wrong cranium. There is so much more I'm interested in right now than sex. I rank it right down there with whether or not she likes mustard on her egg rolls , but I'm sure time will change that.<P>I certainly agree with your ideas about meeting people. Now if it would just warm up enough to get out on the road. R<P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again