How do you accept the fact that your WS talks about a divorce? He has not actually said that he wants one, but the body language and actions suggest it. We have been counseling with the Harleys for months & months. Jennifer said Monday the future does not look good. H does not want to follow the path they suggest. He has rebuted the path from day one, basically said he would do things and then turn right around and not do it. He states to me and counseling that he will do it his way. I read his posts, not from a few days ago, Jennifer told me to not read them. Too upsetting, H says he never loved me, he never loved me at the alter. The only one he has ever loved is the OW. I read for 23 years he was a dutiful husband, and all. He was miserable for 23 years. I could tear him down, but I won't. I have read enough of tearing me down. And it hurts like h*ll! H will counsel with Steve while Jennifer is gone to the wonderful warm climate!<p>I know of a lawyer, already talked to some people about getting a lawyer, and they suggested a good one. One only knows when action starts. Should I go and talk to him to find out what my rights are of a marriage of 23 years? Sad-N-Lonely says to me if I go to the lawyer, it is negative feedback to our marriage. I've read his posts, he doesn't want to be married to me. He had the highlights of a wayward spouse with a woman who has had more than 1 physical affair. I guess she gave him the love, in-love, one-flesh, soulmate etc. that he is looking for. We don't have a chance, without H being 100% in following the path. I have been doing pretty good at plan A. But after Monday counseling, I am downsizing the plan. It is hard doing all, and getting so little back. Like today, he called me a name. I was very busy with going to my ortho doctor, cause I had knee surgery 2 weeks ago and had stitches taken out and PT to follow today. Took awhile to see the doctor cause they had an emergency at the office with a patient. I went to a parts supplier for H. I went to another hospital for blood work for my other doctor. I stopped at the grocery store to pick up something quick for dinner. Came home, brought groceries in, and put them away. 15 year old son had saxophone lessons, so I took him to the lesson and stayed out in the parking lot at the high school and chilled out while lesson in session. Came home and H stated the checks should of been deposited in bank. (Checks from customers). Yes, they should of, H was home for periods of time, why couldn't he have made the slip out and had oldest daughter take and deposit them or himself? I defended myself, and he called me a name. He apologized, but you do not call someone you love terrible names. So he does not love me at all. I felt he didn't care how busy I was today, just get the work done. Maybe wrong, but it is how I feel today. <p>Also, I am dealing with my dad and his cancer. He has lymphoma cancer on the brain, and right side of his face. This is heartbreaking to see your parent deteriate before your eyes. He is receiving radiation and it is doing good, but the side effects are causing some problems. My mother has her hands full with a husband who is walking with a walker, and eating soft foods. H asks occasionally about my dad, which is good. <p>My H had a childhood that was not what he wanted. He had a alcholic father and a young mother, had him when she was 18. They married and divorced when H was 4. H has a brother 2 years younger.
They don't talk hardly at all. Last time H saw his brother was about 10 years ago. I didn't have the best of childhood either, but I look at my childhood with promises and positive outlooks. My parents tried, with what they knew, they both came from poor polish families, that the father was not there. So the older ones had to help support the farm. Why is it that some people look at their past so negative, and some look at their past with positive attitudes, but realize there could of been changes, But are glad they have two good parents? <p>H and I met at a physical ed class. I admired him for wanting to stay physically fit. H and I have quite a bit in common. We both like to read, we both liked the outdoors when we met. We used to go occassionally to concerts, we both used to like outdoor activities. Families were important to my husband, as well as having children. We used to talk and talk about everything. We would stay on the phone for hours talking and when we went to the park we would talk and talk. He I thought loved me and I loved him. I knew he was special after the 2nd date. First date, I was looking deep into his eyes. He has beautiful brown eyes, with lots of thought.<p>H became a overprotective person. When we married I supported the family. He went to school. He was the one who gave me emotional support to complete nursing school before we married. I became pregnant right away, and about the 5 or 6th month of pregnancy I started to spot bleed, and had to get off my feet. So I stayed home and H had to work. This put a burden on us. We had no insurance for the baby, therefore we had to save to pay the hospital bill. When the baby came, he would not allow me to go anywhere without asking him. This got solved later. <p>I worked most of the time, parttime. I started with the first child, housecleaning. We were in another state and my license was not valid in that state. Then I took in babysitting when the other children started coming in to our life. I also, taught piano lessons. Later when the youngest was 2, I worked the afternoon shift as a nurse. We were starting our own business and I would answer the phone for that and get ready to work the afternoon shift (nursing). I have been running the business for the last 12 years. Injured in nursing and not able to lift beyond 10# now. H worked very hard during all this time too. But we would not go out hardly at all. H didn't want a babysittter watching the kids, he didn't want to go out with me. I felt I didn't have a husband who loved me, wanted to treat me like a princess. It was hard taking care of the kids during the day and then staying home at night. I didn't want to go out every night, but once in a while to have time just for us. I was willing to do for him all these years, and still am willing to do. <p>Family was important to my H. Seems it still is, but then it isn't. He talks about divorce, and he basically says, so if the family gets hurt by divorce. Why shouldn't he be happy with someone else? So what am I to do? H still wants to work on marriage, but I don't feel very good about it. H keeps telling me that I would be happier with someone else. I know for a fact, I will never marry again, put my life in anothers heart and to have it broken later. I would actually rather live with the guy, then when he wants to leave let him leave. But God does not look at living together with positive eyes, as well as divorce. So H is going to impose divorce on me, and all I can do is accept it. <p>Where do you start? H keeps telling me to talk to people on the board, so here I am - - - HELP!!! I know you guys have read his posts, what do you think? You think the Harleys are right? Also, Jennifer and I talked about plan B. Was a suggestion she made to H quite a few months ago, and he said he would never leave the house. So she said I would have to leave. We talked about plan B Monday night. This is so hard to do. I hate life, I hate what my H has done to me, and the kids, and the family. Worst part is he feels no guilt or remorse about having a physical affair with the other woman. Even to this day, the other woman wants to keep this affair a secret from her H, because this is definitely her 2nd physical affair, and my detective said possibly a 3rd. Her and her H have been bankrupt 3 1/2 times, she admitted to that, so it shows that they don't know how to handle their money. And she has not worked one day in her life. So my H paid for her cell phone and her cell phone bills during the whole affair except for the last bill. So now her phone is disconnected for non-payment. This was great amount of $$$$$$. She has something better than I have to offer. I wish I knew what it was, she is not a morally good woman, doesn't believe in working, uses another mans money to get what she wants, then goes back to her husband like nothing happened. This is a christian woman with good morals? I have only had one person in my whole life, and that is my H. I dated others, but he is the only one that I had sex with. She had sex before marriage. I made my vows with a committment and guarantee. I guess there are very few of us left. I wish anyone who had an affair was flown to another planet, and they could deal with each other. Probably they would die of AIDS. That is the other thing that bothers me, AIDS can show up till 10 years later or longer. How does my H know that this woman didnot contact AIDS and pass it along to my H? It is passed with body fluids. They exchanged fluids with each other. H is a smart man, but he sure did a very stupid thing. <p>Thanks for listening and help is needed.<p>[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: thinker ]</p>

Thinker,<p>I am very impressed with the fact that through all your pain you are still able to point out the good quaities that you see in your H.<p>It seems to me that you are working very hard and putting this marriage back together.<p>Continue to Plan A. Do what you can to make yourself the best possible person you can be. You can't change him. You know that. So work on you.<p>Good luck to you<p>-Kat-

I think SNL talking to Steve while Jenn is out may be good...sometimes a different perspective helps. However, I'm not sure anyone can make much of a dent in someone who is as rigid in his thinking as SNL seems to be.<p>As for his shift in values, SNL sounds like classic MLC-type stuff. And, while most people do recover from thinking the earth revolves around their navel some do not. Personally, I think I'd be thinking in terms of how much longer I am willing to wait for him to get onboard without separating. But, I am not you...what are you thinking? <p>I am so sorry for your situation; esp. having to deal with your dad's illness on top of it all. You and your mom & dad remain in my prayers.<p>Kathi

Thanks, my dad is doing pretty good for the problems he has. He gained 1/2 pound this week. He is now 118 1/2#. The radiation makes him so weak, he sleeps most of the day, doctor says is quite normal. Told my dad, if he didn't eat, a stomach tube would be placed in his system. Also, gave him appetite medicine to increase his appetite. Seems to be helping. <p>Yes, H is rigid in his thinking, that is why I feel there is no hope. I am looking at improving myself. Our 19 year old daughter and I went to the indoor pool to do laps. It was great, and then we went out to eat. I told her I need help to improve my appearance. After physical therapy on my knee is over, I am going to join the gym she goes to. I said maybe we could go together sometime. Meet some new people. <p>Also, I am going to start going to church, I just wish my H would go with me. But I guess I will have to go myself. I feel so bad inside that I don't have a group of people that I can consider my extended family. I will not go back to our other church, they know too much about us and the marital affair. It is an embarrassment to attend church knowing what my H did. <p>And to be there for my parents is what I am dealing with the most. Mom needs help and I told her I am there anytime. <p>Just Pray for us. Should I go see the lawyer, this is troubling me?

I really can't tell you what to do. If I were you, yeah, I'd probably go to the lawyer. OTOH, the smarter thing might be to give it a bit longer; let Steve & SNL talk then see what Steve thinks...<p>Big Hugs--<p>Kathi

((((((((((((((thinker))))))))))))))))<p>My H told me he was not happy in our marriage, didn't want to try any more, had 2-5 A's during the marriage, and said he had enough.<p>I got to the point of thinking that if he did not want to be here, why on earth hold on. He was never going to be the man I wanted, or remembered from our past years. He had changed, and unfortunately he didn't want me along for the ride, or the kids. All he wants is his own happiness.<p>So at the time, I loved him enough to let him go and find it...I didn't know he had another bimbo lined up. I guess I should have expected it.<p>For me, though, it has been three and a half months since we separated, and I am still hurting, I guess I still love him, in some way, and I am still angry at him for his selfish attitude. But you know what? I could not stand him around me, putting on his stone face, no affection, moping around, it was far worse than where I am now. Nor could I stand the sound of his dead voice on the phone, so when I found out for sure about OW, I went straight into Plan B. I had Plan A'd for 11 months.<p>I am learning to get along without him, and it will be better than this one day. Nothing can be worse than being in a relationship when you know very well that one of you does not want to be there. It is self torture, in my opinion.<p>I have read his posts, and he has never once waivered on his desire to end the marriage. I think that you should let him....my opinion only. I would hate for you guys to end your marriage on anything I said. Right now he is full of the grass is greener, and resentful of you for holding on. Clearly he has no respect for you, and this must all be so hard for you to live with.<p>As for the lawyer thing? Please make up your own mind on that....I wonder why he thinks it is not a good idea for you to go to a lawyer....takes away some of his control of the situation, maybe?<p>I am sorry my post is so negative, and you can flame me if you like. But I feel that what I went through, and now what you are going through is a kind of self-torture, and it can have an end. not the one we would like, but the pain can end one day, dear thinker.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Since I've posted a few responses to SNL's posts, I'll tread lightly here, if I can...<p>"How do you accept the fact that your WS talks about a divorce?"<p>Don't try to accept it just yet. Losing a marriage is like losing a loved one. You will experience many emotional stages (denial, anger, etc.) before you are able to deal with it. Acceptance only comes at the end.<p>"H says he never loved me, he never loved me at the alter. The only one he has ever loved is the OW."<p>They ALL say that. But as the Harleys will tell you, almost all affairs end soon after discovery, and very, very few lead to a happy, lasting relationship. My XW's relationship with her "true love" (the OM) fizzled out only a few months after our divorce.<p>"H still wants to work on marriage, but I don't feel very good about it. H keeps telling me that I would be happier with someone else."<p>I heard that, too. Here is one way to approach thte situation: He must agree to "no contact" with the OW. I told my XW "I will not compete with another person for your affection. If our marriage is to work out, then it must be ONLY between you and me." He has to realize that a love triangle will never, ever work. In other words, he has to decide whether he is part of the solution, or part of the problem. There is no "in between."<p>"We talked about plan B Monday night. This is so hard to do. I hate life, I hate what my H has done to me, and the kids, and the family. Worst part is he feels no guilt or remorse about having a physical affair with the other woman."<p>I think he feels guilt, but has a problem expressing it. Like any WS, he is conflicted, and needs to go to great lengths to justify his behavior. Yes, Plan B is hard. I failed at it myself. In fact, my marriage failed entirely. Yet Plan B may be the only option for you at this point. Your H needs to sort things out on his own, and more importantly, you need time for you.<p>And I'm terribly sorry to hear about your father. I lost my father to a heart attack when I was 21. And while it may be tough to see him during these tough times, consider yourself blessed to have him in your life for so long. Please cherish your time together, and say all the things that you want to say to him, as often as you can...some people never have that chance.

Ew said she never loved me even at the altar, said she married me for all the wrong reasons. She said OM was the love of her life. She said I never did anything right in 23yrs, Fooooooooooooog there. You don't marry and stay togheter 23yrs if there is nothing there. I did many good things and she knows it. Having an affair is the modt selfish thing someone can do. From what I hear things aren't going well for her and OM, but I have moved on and don't think I could ever go back, I quess I made a decision awhile back, If she doesn't want me then why would I want to hold one to her and be miserable, I decided to let go and see if she came back wanting me and only me, Well she hasn't yet, and I don't think she will, but that is ok now, I realize I couldn't have lived my life that way and that she wasn't good for me in many ways, I suggest just keep working on yourself and take care of yourself.

Dear Thinker:<p>I am sorry for your situation and my prayers go out for your family. I have no experience with affairs so I cannot help you there. I have had and currently do now own a couple of businesses.<p>I would strongly suggest given the current state of your relationship that you seek the counsel of a good attorney. The ability to skew the value of an in home business and shelter money is too great. This is particularly true where one person is the back office and the other has direct contact with customers.<p>I am NOT saying this is the case in your situation but to be forewarned is to be forearmed. It is important that you understand your rights and set up plan should a divorce go forward to protect yourself. If you feel it would be benefical, I can give you an outline of the steps I would take if I were in your position. You can review and take to the attny for his approval. Let me know.<p>Again, I am not saying anything negative about SNL. I find him intelligent and articulate. I am saying something proactive to you.<p>My best to you and your family. I hope things turn out the best possible way for you.<p>Jack<p>[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: willmakeitwork ]<p>[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: willmakeitwork ]</p>

Nina to - yes, when I have been reading his posts, that is all he keeps saying is he wants the marriage to end. He never wanted to reconcile with me. He said he would try, but when he isn't willing according to counseling and myself, I have a hard time dealing with the situation.<p>I talked to him last night about plan B. He is so adamant about not separating. I don't know if it is power over me, or he wants to work on things in the future. He has me spinning around and around. <p>Willmakeitwork - yes he is articulate, and intelligent in some ways. He manipulates me with words, and actions. I proposed for him to stop disrespectful comments to me. Did one this morning, all computers down and wanted to get on the boards to see responses. Of course he got up, no good morning, no kiss, nothing. I went downstairs, went for my walk, started walking, with OK from Ortho doctor. Came back asked if he wanted breakfast, made breakfast, I ate, left his on counter. Told him breakfast is getting cold, asked how long be on computer. Can't say, have a long post to do, I said I would like to check computer and couldn't give me time. I said I will call your mom to see if she is on computer and then he gave me a sort of 20 min. So here I am on my MIL computer.<p>H doesn't give me a direct answer when I ask him a question. He talks and talks, and I say you haven't given me an answer yet. This morning I asked about the computers, and he said I have told you 50 times etc. I felt it was disrespectful and told him not to talk to me that way. Seems H is just looking at me with devil eyes, he sees hate in me, looks at me with dislike, talks to me in a unrespectful manner, and I am burning out. He states he is not in a midlifecrisis. I feel he is totally wrong, he had this fling with a untrustworthy woman. So I am not like her, I am a strong worker, family is important to me, morals are important to me, our kids are important to me. Why does he see only good in this woman? I went through many old posts and never do I hear how awful the OW is, it is always me (his wife). This woman must be a saint disguised in a devil suit. They fit perfectly, she is his one-flesh, in-love, soulmate. <p>I have repeadedly told him to go to her. She lives 2000 miles away. He says she doesn't want him. She is the one that ended the cellphone conversations. She called me and manipulated me with phone suicide. I guess she had ended her last conversation with my husband, and immediately called me to say she is going to commit suicide if we tell her husband about the affair. This is a respectful woman with a sane mind? Right! Needless to say, she called me 2 more times, to coerce me into not telling her husband, she wants to keep this affair a secret from him, since she has already had another physical affair. <p>So I have told H many times go to her. I will buy you a ticket and call her to pick you up at the airport. I have let him go, he doesn't want to go, and he doesn't want this marriage. So what does he want? He keeps telling me to figure things out. Why can't he figure them out by himself, without any of us around. Maybe that is what he needs, but he won't do plan B. So I guess I will be the one to leave. <p>Just keep praying for us, and I would like to have this marriage work. I know I love this man, and I know he does not love me now.

thinker,<p>WOW, I have to say, I always wondered who SNL's wife was. I haven't read a lot of SNL's post because I just find myself getting mad at a person I don't know so I try to stay away from them. To be honest with you, as I read some of his post and I heard him talk about how you were a munipulator, his posts always told me otherwise, I think if anyone is a munipulator it's probably him. So I wouldn't feel so bad, I think anyone who really reads what he is saying doesn't believe the things about you anyway. I have always just thought, "His poor wife, will this guy ever get it."<p>Is he still in this affair with her? If so, does he think he can have you and her too? What makes him think he can have both? When he writes he doesn't love you and he cuts you down so badly, when he has an affair and cheats on you, I don't understand how he can then say it is negative feedback if you go get a divorce. Who the heck is munipulating whom??? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I'm sorry but if it were me, I'd go talk to that lawyer, get some good legal advice, tell him to get the heck out and go be with his "soul mate". I tell you what, if he continues looking for his "soul mate" he is going to grow old all by himself and die, indicative of his name, "SAD N LONELY!" I think he should add this to his name, "Sad, Lonely, angry, bitter, and fantasizing".<p>You talk about how you were attracted to his brown eyes and him staying in good physical health. Please tell me some things about him that are good. Is he your partner? Does he give in the marriage or just expect you to always make him happy? Is he a kind, gentle man? Does he help you out with household chores? Is he your best friend? Does he respect you as his wife? What makes him a good husband other than brown eyes and keeping in shape? Please, give me something to make me respect this person, because to be honest, I don't.<p>On the unhappy childhood. My stbx had an unhappy childhood too. The first years, I felt bad for him and supported him, gave him comfort regarding all his pain and sadness he had to deal with. As the years went on, I thought why can't he get on with his life and put the past in the past. Why does he have to wallow in his own misery? Why does he have to dwell over things that couldn't be? <p>It took him beating me up one day for me to open my eyes and see just what kind of person he is and what kind of person I was feeling sorry for and making excuses for all the time. I think he loves to be miserable, I think he loves pity, he loves to blame and he loves to dwell on the past. He loves making excuses for all his bad choices. He blamed his unhappiness on so many people; his mom for abandoning him because she went in a mental institution when he was young, his dad for abandoning him for never being in his life, his Aunt for keeping his mom away from him when she got out of the hospital, his Uncle for keeping his dad away from him, he blames his ex girlfriends parents for killing their baby, because they talked her in to an abortion, and if it weren't for them they'd still be together, happily married and he would have finished college. He kind of forgets all about the fact his girlfriend found another boyfriend and didn't want him, also that she was old enough to make her own decisions. BLAME BLAME BLAME. <p>Now, I get my chance in this picture of blame, he now blames me for making him beat me up, me for ruining his life and me for ruining our children's lives. I told him I can see him 20 years from now when I am out of his life and he has a new wife, telling his new wife it's all my fault he is the way he is to her and it's all my fault he's miserable. I'm sure the first few years he'll get that comfort and pity he craves from her, he'll tell her what a rotton childhood, how he never had a dad, how he had a wife that that ruined him forever by giving up on the marriage for absolutely no reason, his poor wife will see one side for awhile and he'll get the things he needs from her, but eventually she'll get the picture too. Too sad!<p>Ok, sorry to vent so much on your post. Your post really struck a nerve.

Here's a quote happy_hus put on a thread, I think this sums up SNL....<p>"Tom Robbins once wrote: The bottom line is that people are never perfect, but love can be. We waste time creating the perfect lover, instead of creating the perfect love. <p>You can substitute the words “pursuing the perfect dream” or “crating the perfect marriage” for the
words “creating the perfect lover” and it is still just as insightful. Don’t let your fears and mistrust get in the way of creating the perfect love in your relationship. Fear is the only waste of time. <p>Also, Jen said you may have to leave the house. Don't leave, if it comes down to one of you leaving, go see a lawyer first. Often you can get a court order to kick his butt out! I think with the affair and everything else, this would be easy for you to do, but if you leave the house before you get the order, it may not happen.<p>Take care. Good luck in your decisions. BTW, If Jennifer would be giving your marriage more hope, I probably would have kept my comments to myself. However, I am kind of with her, it's time for a lawyer and plan B. <p>ANNA<p>[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Dear Thinker,
I agree with some of the other posters in saying go see the lawyer. Just getting some information about your rights and next steps can be comforting.
I don't understand all the contridictions in your posts:
SNL doesn't want to be married to you.
SNL doesn't want a divorce.<p>SNL won't leave.
SNL doens't want to be there.<p>SNL wants to work on the marriage.
SNL doesn't want to follow Harley's advice or plan.<p>SNL is only in love with OW - the soulmate, the perfect "fit".
SNL doesn't want to go to her.<p>What is the deal with all of that? Perfectly scripted fogeese, if you ask me. <p>You cannot change him, you cannot make him make a decision, you cannot make him want to do the work or want to stay or want to love you the way you need to be loved. You can only control yourself and your future. I think you should stop waiting for him to get his [censored] in gear. He spends way too much time pontificating about relationships instead of living the one he is in. You can't change that. Trying to will only cause you more pain.<p>Go see the lawyer. Make a plan for your future. A business that you both have built over several years will be hard to split up. A 23 year marriage where you have worked to support the household is worth something. These issues may have more to do with his not wanting you to see the lawyer - protect yourself and your children.
You have nothing to lose by making the appointment.<p>Good luck,
M

Wiffle,<p>VERY well said!!!!<p>You said basically a lot of what I said, in very few words. Sheesh! [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] <p>ANNA

Thinker,<p>I really am not going to steal your thread. Just had to make a quick note To ANNA.<p>Anna it is good to see you vent. I believe that you need to do that. Sometimes it frees the soul and helps you to heal.<p>Thinker, <p>I agree, do not leave. Get an attorney, protect the business. and make him go away.<p>He has made it clear he is not going to work on it so let him be San-N-Lonely all by himself. Then he can really sit on the Pitty Pot.<p>My fear is that he chats in the same chat rooms that I do....eeeeeeeekkkkkk.<p>-Kat-

Not to worry kat, I do not do chat. And I agree with all the advice given thinker, I'd proabably give her the same advice myself. Makes no difference (legal advice), I am obligated to take care of her needs rest of her life anyways, nor will I contest anything (if it comes to that), I won't have a lawyer, and I will sign whatever she thinks is fair. I will leave with the clothes on my back if that is what she desires. Of course, I would probably wonder why she did that (not that I think she would). Nor will I refute anything said here, we agreed not to read each others posts (but reading others responses is ok I guess, if not I am sure she will tell me). Maybe she is indeed better off without me.

sorry, used H login, redid below<p>[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

The census is go see the lawyer. I guess I will after the 3 weeks of counseling with Steve. Yes, I am going in circles. Since most of you have read his posts, I was hoping for some help. This is not going to be easy. <p>Yes, he has called me a manipulator, I am to some extent, but I feel he is quite good at it himself. Being in a relationship, where H didn't want to go out hardly at all without the kids, made me feel unloved and unmarried. I don't want to say he is this or that. It is destroying the other person. Our marriage was not miserable for 23 years, in my opinion. But that is my point of view. We had problems, yes. I had a strong relationship with my father which caused problems. I am very close to him, that is why this cancer is tough to deal with. I will give my dad a kiss goodbye and tell him I love you dad, once in a while he will say it back. This illness is hard on dad, cause he was always independent, he started his own business, building his own building and clients. He ran a front end & alignment shop which is very well known around here. My brother took over the shop. Now he is dependent on others. He is in a deep depression.<p>As far as what H is. He is a hard worker, started his own business. He is not good with paper work, his filing system is piles, mine is file cabinets. He is a good father, has displayed some uncaring attitudes towards the kids during the affair. He used to love families, but I read in one of his posts, why does it matter the family gets hurt during the divorce? Why shouldn't he be happy? He has also discussed it with me. I can only say that family matters a great deal to me. I love his mother, infact I went over to use her computer this morning, and she and I talked for about 45minutes. She is so depressed about various things, and so she talks to me about it.
H gets upset with her depression, and I try to help her. I know H loves his mother, but H can't seem to deal with people who seem to be anti-normal at the moment. I went on a service call with H to a rehab home awhile back, and there were 2 ladies in wheelchairs eating their meal. The one took my hand and held it and talked - couldn't understand very many words, but it was comforting to me to hold her hand and talk about her meal, and the roomate eating lunch with her. These are people too with hearts, minds (maybe a little messed up), tears, feelings. <p>H does not like working on lawns and etc. I have done that until the kids got old enough. H does not do much in cleaning the house, vacuuming, dishes, etc. He says there are others to do that. He will put his dirty clothes in the basket, maybe not the same day, but soon enough. He handles the big financial decisions, I now handle the checkbooks, he did for years, but paperwork is not his positive action. He settles major conflicts. He handles various aspects of life dealing with finances, insurance, etc. I handle the medical stuff, and get things scheduled and organized. <p>He used to be a kind man, a little rough on the edges. He is not so much for sympathy. I feel this OW gave him all this, kindness, sympathy, and love and that is all he sees now. He has changed and some of it is not for the good. He does flare up quite easily. Blames me quite a bit for wrong doings. It seems I will never measure up, and just being me is not good enough. I could be wrong, hope I am wrong. <p>Anna2000 - you have been through some really rough times. I can see you vented, which is quite okay. Venting helps the heart and mind. Vent as much as you need. Don't be angry at SNL, he is who he is. As far as keeping in good shape, that is one thing that attracted me when we were dating. He is not in good shape now, and he will acknowledge that. He does not exercise, is trying to watch his diet, quite overweight. He loved to read still does, we used to talk and talk, we had a lot in common. There were many things that I liked about him and still do. <p>
He is now on the personality type of people. H and I are not the same. Our whole family did the Kiersey test and he did it on the OW. Him and the OW fit perfectly. So I guess after 23 years of marriage, now that he knows about the personality types of people, I am not like him, so get rid of the oddball and fulfill it with
someone new. Of course they will have to take the test first, before he considers marrying them. <p>
H and OW are not talking. Basically the OW cut off the conversation on the cellphone in July. I feel that if she didn't do it by threatening me with suicide first, if we tell her husband, that the conversation would of continued on. I could be wrong, but from what I saw after she told me she will not answer anymore of his voicemails, and stuff, that she promised me she would not talk to him anymore and doesn't ever want to see or hear from him again. Cause H left voicemails after that, and checked to see if her phone was still on until one day he announced it was no longer in use because she didn't pay her bill. H paid her phone and bills the rest of the time. So there is no contact, at least H tells me that. <p>H is a good man, would be a good husband, is a good father. But he is messed up, and causing a lot of hurt feelings in this family. I don't know what is happening, I don't know if I am even married to this man. He had a physical affair with the other woman, and considered her his spiritual wife. Now I don't know how he feels abuot the other woman. Except I still know he loves her, and this woman has faults. But I have faults, and he does not love me. The BS gets the short end of the deal. The OW got all, she got my husband, our money, my husband physcially, took time away from my Husband working and family, she says goodbye to H and goes back to her H like nothing happened and lives the rest of her life without her family knowing, anything. Here our kids have been affected, and all of us. The pain is so unreal! Boy does that seem fair, the WS on that end gets it all. <p>Wiffle - try to figure it out yourself. Jennifer is having a hard time with him and so am I. I have been praying so much, but I don't know what to think either. Like I said, I am going in circles. No place to go, or know what is going on. <p>Not once do I see where he has said he loves me, only the OW. I do love this man, but my patience is running short. I see that he has responded, to my post. He doesn't say anything about loving me, only he will take care of me like a piece of luggage. We asked each other to not read each others post. I thought he was to stay totally away, guess I could go to his on GQII to read the responses of everyone and then get the idea of what he wrote. Again, I won't I promised Jennifer and my H. Just want to tell you all, I am not that bad person, H says I am. Our marriage was not miserable for 23 years, and I am in fact a very good person. I care about people, have a lot of empathy, sympathy, and would give the clothes off my back to help anyone. I have had to learn to say no, that is how caring I am. I have been there for my husband through all his surgeries, when he wakes up to see my face, not a stranger. I have been there for all his illnesses, been there for his grandmothers funeral. Been there to be with him when his family came around from other states. I have been a backbone for him for many years. Would be nice to see some love being stated too. Anyways, I am going to take the dogs (4) for a walk, need to cry, and I refuse to cry in front of my kids and family. Need time to vent to God.<p>Sorry, I am using my H computer, and forgot it was addressed Sad-N-Lonely. Don't know how to correct the writer - who is me (Thinker). Guess I will go downstairs to find out - ask H.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by thinker:
<strong>.
Also, I am going to start going to church, I just wish my H would go with me. But I guess I will have to go myself. I feel so bad inside that I don't have a group of people that I can consider my extended family. I will not go back to our other church, they know too much about us and the marital affair. It is an embarrassment to attend church knowing what my H did.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I have a question, why are you embarassed about
going to church that knows what happened??
Since they already know, they should be able to
offer you the Christian Family Support in which
you need right now..<p>You shouldn't be embarassed by your husbands actions..they are his to be ashamed of or not, not yours..and he will be the one who has to answer for them before God..not you..<p>And if your church family looks down on YOU for
his actions..then your right you don't need to
be there..but, they shouldn't..and they shouldn't
condemn him either..because God says, we are
all sinners..and no where have I found in the bible that one sin is greater, or lesser than
another..all sin is equal in God's eye's..and all
needs to be taken to Him..for forgiveness..and cleansing..yes, we need to ask others to forgive us if we've hurt them..but, they aren't required
to forgive in order for us to recieve God's forgiveness..were just required to go and ask, if they give it..wonderful, if they don't..well, thats between them and God..<p>And you never know who within your church may
have the same struggles that you do..or who may
have already been through them that can offer you
the support and guidance that you need..as Christians we are to share our burdens with others..thats not saying we give them to let someone else carry for us, but to share them..
to open up and say.."hey, this is going on, and
I need help in dealing with this..has anyone else
been here, who can offer some Godly advice..that
can help???" By doing this it allows God to use
His children's experience to help others..and to help them grow and become more more like Him..and to show us how much He loves us..<p>And if your H is embarassed by His actions about
the entire church congregation knowing..then..
well, thats for him to face..both before the church and God..not you..all you can do at that
point is be there to support him..if/when he comes back..and who knows..there may be one of the men
in the congregation who have been where your H is..and who can maybe talk to him..and help him
through whatever it is he is dealing with..in a loving non-judgemental way..that can help bring
him closer to Christ..<p>And your church family can also be there to offer
support and prayers about your parents..I am sure
there are others who have also been through this
with a loved one..

Thinker,<p>I was just just thinking..you say that your
h hasn't been supporting you right now as
your struggling with your fathers cancer..
and the thought of losing him..<p>You know, this may be just as difficult for
him..he's never had a father figure in his
life..you have both said, his father walked
out when he was 4 yrs old..and he's probably
never grieved that loss in his own life..so
he probably doesn't understand what to do..
because it's something he's never had..he's
never had a father to be there for him, and
to comfort him when he was scared, or lonely
or hurting..or someone to encourage him in activities, things your dad apparently did
for you..<p>So seeing you going through this is something
that is very foreign to him..<p>Did it give him the right to have the affair?
No, it's no excuse..does it make it right that
he's not supporting you emotionally no..but
until he can come to the point of grieving
his own loss he may never be able to give you
the support you need..it may not be that he doesn't want to..but it's something he may
not even understand himself..about himself..<p>I don't know how your husbands and your fathers
relationship has been over the years..if they
were close or not, but, if your father was like
a father figure to him in anyway..he may not even
understand the impact of this loss on himself..

Hi, I just wanted to share with ALL of you that reading the stories in this thread literally brought tears to my eyes. You all might as well have been telling MY story! My husband left me a very short time ago (about one and a half weeks ago) and although it was tough right from the start, I think it has finally started to hit me - I was really, really down today.<p>One thing I noticed is that many of you have been married for years, decades even, and have children. Also, I think all of you have had to deal with affairs. With so much invested in the relationship, it boggles the mind that someone would think the unhappiness was the end of the world and instead of improving their world, they just throw it all away.<p>I want you all to know that my situation is very different. Much to my surprise all this is happening only a few months after our first anniversary, we have no children, and that I know of, there is no OW. So I kind of feel guilty comparing my pain to yours, since you all have invested so much more than me.<p>I feel ashamed because, although I have told very few people about this separation, the general reaction is, "didn't you two just get married?" In fact the wedding isnt even paid off yet. I feel so naive.<p>BUT -- all of you - I know I am only a "kid", but I am a traditional Christian and I had every intention of being married to him forever. I just want you all to know that although our situations are very different, I still empathise with you, and I find it a little shocking that I identify so well with your stories and you identify with mine.<p>I am so glad you all are here (well, not glad, because you went through some awful things and thats why you're here) but what I mean is I am glad we have support in each other.<p>Sorry this is a very incoherent post, like i said I am having a very rotten day. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>luck to all of you<p>A.