tr, I appreciate your efforts, I really do, and I know how hard it is to make such detailed assessments on such little information. Sticking your neck out like that is risky. I don't say too much about my wifes posts (she has now said I can read em again, so I have). But surely most of you must realize the extreme differences between how we portray our lives is significant. There are serious behavioural issues between us, this is not a simply kiss and make-up and all will be well type of marital dysfunction. Maybe I am just a cold-hearted selfish sob, or maybe I am indeed fighting for my emotional survival, there is really no way for any of you to know. The A had nothing to do with her father's illness, nor do I have any relationship with her family (beyond a perfunctory politeness, and a few annual holiday visits. Her mother is a highly critical person, and has been on her H back (and daughters) all their lives (yeah big surprise huh). <p>It was from her mother I "rescued" my wife, and devoted myself to restoring her self-esteem, of telling her someone believed in her. Unfortuneately I didn't realize the emotional toll that would take on me, and I lost myself in the process. The dyanmics of my wife and I are complex TR, we both came from very dysfunctional families, and are temperamentally quite different as well. I have spent many years trying to figure it all out, and mostly have, and the truth is grim. I do not dislike my wife, she is a good woman, but the problems are real, and are not going to just go away by playing nice. I do give her support TR, but it is disrupted by her anger and demands. I could go into a long boring post about how whatever I do is not good enough, and how unfair it is to say I am not there for her...cause I am. But it is true I do not meet her expectations in this regard as she would like, and it causes friction. <p>I feel like I am on trial for how good I "comfort". And it is true she is a much better caregiver in stuff like this than I am, but she judges me by how she would do it. Factor in the regular blowups over A related issues, and you have a disastorous emotional atmosphere for thinker, I feel terrible for her, it is so unfair for her.

Hey SNL<p>If you really feel this is unfair for your wife THEN GET OUT OF HER LIFE! Simple very simple. Move on down the road to your next unlucky victim. And please stop with the bs about giving a damn about your W and her feelings. No one buys it here ya know and it's really insulting the intelligence of everyone on this site.<p>[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: KalGrl ]</p>

Take what you read and do what you want with it. H has not been there for me as a H all the time. But I am not going to go into what he said or she said. What for?<p>I am sick of the verbal statements H says to me. Criticism is not very admirable. H was not a saint of a H, and I was not a saint of a W. I still love him, and he doesn't love me. <p>Have had a stressful day today, talked with my MIL this morning. She needed someone to talk to. Went to my moms this evening to see how things are going, and she is now stating to me she is stressed out and the effect this is having on her body. Asked me to watch dad for her sometime next week so she can go shopping and chill out and buy new shoes. Said sure anytime, get our schedules together. <p>I hate this affair crap. I hate my H for having an affair and the other thing that bothers me is when I was at the UofM Hospital with mom and dad I asked about AIDS. The new revised info. is that it can take 15 years to show up. In nursing I learned 10 years. My H had sex with this promiscuous woman who had sex in college, sex into her 10th year of marriage and then sex again with my H. Who in the h*ll knows what she has swimming inside of her. This woman suggested to my H to go to a hotel, and of course my H said yes. Now don't tell me this is a honorable woman. No one made her go into a private room while married and have sex with her first lover. No one made her pull her panties down. Same with my H, no one made her take her clothes off, she did it willing. Same with my H, no one made him take his underwear off, he did it willing. This hurts so much that he let a woman touch his private parts while being married. I have had no one but my H. It hurts like H*LL. They met 5 or 6 times during the time H was out in her state. And of course everytime was quite sexual. <p>How can a person say this is a good moral honorable person with the history she has had. When she called me to tell me she was not going to respond to my husbands voicemails anymore, I asked her if she learned from her first affair, she said no. I asked why did you play with my H and she didn't know. Asked her other question and she didn't know. Brilliant person, has all the answers! IQ of maybe 30? Her counselor told her there is something mentally wrong with her, her sister has mental problems, and her father has mental problems. My H still loves this woman, and does not love me. Sure as the mother of his children, but nothing else. Seems to not make sense, when this OW is way out of morality. <p>Sorry to vent tonight, am upset, with all I had to deal with today. H being critical of me today, stress of parents, stress of affair, and didn't get really any paperwork done. That is left up to me to do too, and I just couldn't sit and concentrate. It is piling up and I feel overwhelmed. I feel used, and unloved, and uncared for, and a very ugly person. Told H go to the OW and get on with his life. She is the only one he has ever loved, in boards have read. Go and have your fun H and leave me. Vows mean nothing, marriage means nothing. Well, enough before it gets really ugly.

TR is right definitely cast iron. <p>ANNA<p>[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Anna, I have cast iron skillets, or stainless steel - which one would be more effective?<p>Yes, he would be a good H, but you know what he did talk about being a alien last night. We saw on TV 'Are aliens in our country?' or something like that. When we were dating he would kidingly say he is a alien. Maybe there is some truth to it. Then he said our kids are 1/2 alien. I just told him I would love them the same H and the kids. <p>ThornedRose - Yes, I am embarrassed to attend the church we have been with for around 10 years. The pastors know that H had an affair, when we were counseling with them I think 2 or 3 times, they asked H if he had sex with the OW. He flat out said no, so he lied. Maybe there would be some help there, but the step to go into those doors is almost unbearable. <p>The other thing, is the church is not that close to home, so it was time consuming to do outside activities with the group of people there. Most of the people live nearer the church than us. So at this time, I think it would be nice to try a church in our area. Yes, this may be a cop out, I know! <p>My H step grandfather died and the pastor of the church, grandfather cleaned as a janitor, did grandpas funeral service. We also maintain the churches boiler. I thought maybe this would be a good place to start. I have become to know Father John, and thought maybe I will give it a try. Would like to get into a womens bible study. Or if H was willing, to do a couples bible study. When H started dating me, I was in a womens bible study called the 'Navigators'. It was fulfilling to read the scripture and learn the passages. Its been a long time since I have actually sat down and read the bible. Especially going through this lousy last year with H affair. <p>What you said about H not having a father to know what it feels like to lose a loving parent is probably true! Don't know why it didn't hit me to think that way. I guess I can be more understanding now, that emotionally he won't be with me cause he doesn't know how it feels. Wish he did have a loving father that he knew would be there for his ballgames, plays, athletic events, school awards and etc. My dad was a hard worker, but he did attent our piano recitals, (I am a twin so we did things together - fraternal boy and girl), my mom got me on a baseball team, dressed me up as a boy and I was able to play a few games, until someone told. In the neighborhood, I was a good ballplayer. Anyways, H may have issues dealing with not having a father. I guess I will be more understanding and try to be patient. <p>You seem to have a great deal of knowledge and comfort in your words. Thanks.

SNL- I responded to your comments in my post
to you--to repsect Thinkers thread..<p>
THinker -Anna, I have cast iron skillets, or stainless steel - which one would be more effective?<p>TR- Cast Iron...LOL..<p>
Thinker- Yes, he would be a good H, but you know what he did talk about being a alien last night. We saw on TV 'Are aliens in our country?' or something like that. When we were dating he would kidingly say he is a alien. Maybe there is some truth to it. Then he said our kids are 1/2 alien. I just told him I would love them the same H and the kids. <p>TR- Good Response [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thinker - Yes, I am embarrassed to attend the church we have been with for around 10 years. The pastors know that H had an affair, when we were counseling with them I think 2 or 3 times, they asked H if he had sex with the OW. He flat out said no, so he lied. Maybe there would be some help there, but the step to go into those doors is almost unbearable. <p>TR-Understandable, that it would be difficult but still no reason for "you" to be embarassed. (sounds like you might be trying to be responsible
for feelings that are his) Have you by chance read
the boook Boundries??? It explains more in detail
about this..<p>Thinker -The other thing, is the church is not that close to home, so it was time consuming to do outside activities with the group of people there. Most of the people live nearer the church than us. So at this time, I think it would be nice to try a church in our area. Yes, this may be a cop out, I know! <p>TR- No, actually, this isn't a cop out, it is
quite understandable to want to be closer to a
Church to be more active..not just in the classes,
but also to have a support group which is closer..
Call around to some of the local churches and see
what they offer..some have alot of activties not
just for adults, but for youth as well..<p>Thinker- Would like to get into a womens bible study. Or if H was willing, to do a couples bible study. When H started dating me, I was in a womens bible study called the 'Navigators'. It was fulfilling to read the scripture and learn the passages. Its been a long time since I have actually sat down and read the bible. Especially going through this lousy last year with H affair.<p>TR- Find one for yourself, even if H doesn't go..
it will bring you comfort..and maybe he could find
a mens' bible study..that would interest him..and
give you both the support you need..allow God to
grow both of you seperately..and then may be sit
down together and share what you are learning??<p>This is something, I struggled with in my own marriage..I wanted to go to church, and study,
and grow spiritually, H, did not..didn't even
like me going w/out him (out of fear I'd meet someone else,and leave)my understanding of
spirtual matters was that he was supposed to be the leader..and totally responsible for spiritual
growth..and yes, he was responsible to a point,
but, if he fails to lead..then, I become responsible..because it is my personal relationship with Christ.<p>another way to look at it would be like with your children..remember when they were babies, and you
had to do everything for them? as they grew up
you taught them to do things for themselves..to be
responsible for themselves..but, if you never
teach them or they never learn..then stay emotional babies..totally dependant on you..
which isn't healthy..for you or them..and
when they grow up and marry..they will most likely
marry someone who will be a "parent" figure to them..and when one of them either gets tired of
being the parent, or tired of being treated like a child..it causes conflict..because they either
want the other to become responsible "adults"
or they want to start being responsible for themselves as adults, and be treated as such.
(as my stbxh, has said to me..YOU ARE JUST FREE WHITE AND 21 HUH???) Like he is my dad..I guess,
some call this an MLC,(or second childhood) but,
I think in realty..it's more..they are for the
first time, growing up emotionally..and learning
how to be responsible adults..learning something
they didn't when they were children..
(this is how I have come to understand my own growth through all of this..understanding the
dynamics of abuse, and how I was taken from being
a baby, to an adult in a moments time when my father molested me, I didn't get the chance to go
through the emotional growth of childhood..But, I
have started looking to God at being the parent
I never had..and allowed Him to heal me..(which
IMHO, explains the emotions felt during an Affair
going on during this time, it's like you are
experiencing these intense emotions for the very
first time emotionally on an adult level,and trying to make sense of them, as most ppl did
during their teenage years)<p>Thinker-What you said about H not having a father to know what it feels like to lose a loving parent is probably true!<p>TR- looking at what I said above, and knowing that
your husbands, father left when he was so young..he was forced into the adult male role at 4 yrs old..not being given the childhood, and teen
years to learn those things..yes, he lived them..
but he was for all practical purposes emotionally
still 4 years old..in his understanding of adult relationships..trying to function as he felt
adults should function..(just my humble opinion, from what I have learned about myself)<p>Thinker- Don't know why it didn't hit me to think that way. <p>TR- Because, you've never experienced it..not
that there is anything wrong w/ that..<p>Thinker-I guess I can be more understanding now, that emotionally he won't be with me cause he doesn't know how it feels.<p>TR- And this is good, for you too..because it
removes a hurt from you, thinking he is being
cold and callous, for not being there, the way
you need him to be..<p>Thinker- Wish he did have a loving father that he knew would be there for his ballgames, plays, athletic events, school awards and etc. <p>TR- I wish he could have to..as he probably does
as well..<p>Thinker-My dad was a hard worker, but he did attent our piano recitals, (I am a twin so we did things together - fraternal boy and girl), my mom got me on a baseball team, dressed me up as a boy and I was able to play a few games, until someone told. In the neighborhood, I was a good ballplayer. <p>TR- Sounds like they loved you..

Thinker- Anyways, H may have issues dealing with not having a father. I guess I will be more understanding and try to be patient. <p>TR- and maybe give him time to heal and grow-up
emotionally..even though this will be very painful..as he struggles alone..although you can
be his friend..as you also grow and learn more
about yourself.. <p>Thinker-You seem have a great deal of knowledge and comfort in your words. <p>TR- Hope what I have shared has been helpful..as it's been through my own growth that I have learned these things..and had hoped my own stbhx
could have also learned these things..but, that
is not the case..and in many ways, he is still
emotionally/spiritually a child,who has no desire to learn..or even try to comprehend..

Is the title of the Book 'Boundaries'? Who is the author? Sounds like a book to read. <p>Don't read much on the boards, get too upset. With being molested by your father at a young age has taken its tole on you. Here is the man that you trusted, looked up to and wanted to be there for all your achievements. To be daddy's little girl and to do this. This is tough stuff. My friend was molested by two of her brothers. She is having a hard time with triggers, one was in a sheep barn she was molested. When she sees sheep or looks at wool, she becomes edgey and nervous.
When she used to smell the after shave they wore, that was a trigger. You must have a lot of triggers, but it seems you are under control with God's help. <p>H came and laid next to me on the bed. I am a hard worker and trying to pay bills with what money we have. I am the worry wort of the family. Laid down to relieve brain of stress of bill paying. H put arms around me and we talked a little. I get upset with the conversation when it goes, why couldn't we be friends, good friends. What could be different if we were friends and not married? What if we were brother & sister living in the same house, after a spouse dies, what would be different. I went into the intimate conversations, the intimate feelings, the intimate disclosure, and etc. He doesn't get it. So TR I don't see any future for us. H basically wants out. I told him would be nice to have some positive feedback to say this marriage would be nice. Instead he goes into the negative of this marriage and to be separated. He can do what he does now without being married. Except for the sex and intimate talks. He said he will always be my friend. So there is your answer, a friend and move on.

Thinker-<p>I never got to build that trust with my
father..the SA started when I was 2 or
3...so I've never known what a father's
love is..it was all I knew..and understood
about male/female relationships..and then
verbal abuse as I got older..and then
physical..all causing my own set of dysfunctions
and fears that I have had to grow through..and
learn from..it's only been recently that I have
been able to feel safe enough in my own home
at night to sleep w/ the light out..and I'm almost
38 yrs old.. It hasn't been an easy road, nor a
short one..I was in counseling years ago, but stopped when I really should have continued..I thought at the time, that just admitting that
it happened..and being able to tell someone
was enough..but,about 4 years ago I began to see and understand the triggers between my past and my present..But, even then I didn't know what to
do..so I kinda fumbled around trying to figure
it out..then 3 yrs ago a friend sent me The Wounded Heart..and I was able to truly begin
the healing process..both emotionally and spiritually..and I told my stbxh, I was changing..
and that I didn't think he would like the changes..a lot of anger came out (my rebelling against his control) like a teenager rebelling against their parents (something I never did with
my own parents, out of fear) trying to learn how to be independant, and learn to trust my own gut instincts, and decisions..has been weird..yet empowering--but it caused major conflict in the
marriage..because I no longer wanted or needed
a father figure, I needed to be treated w/ respect, and as an adult..something stbxh wasn't willing or didn't know how to give..and wasn't willing to learn..(imho) sounds kind of like what is happening in your marriage..<p>One book that really helped me..that I
would recommend for your friend is
The Wounded Heart, By Dr. Dan B. Allender
There are also others..but this one helped
get me started..<p>And Boundries is by Dr's Henry Cloud, and
John Townsend

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ThornedRose:
<strong>
THinker -Anna, I have cast iron skillets, or stainless steel - which one would be more effective?<p>TR- Cast Iron...LOL..<p>
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>TR is right definitely cast iron. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>ANNA

Thinker,<p>I don't read your or SNL's post very often. SNL is just too long winded for my short attention span. SNL could be my STBX in so many ways, just not by your words but his all so.<p>The one thing you said I wanted to address was going to church. I left the congergation we as a family attended for over 18 yrs. It hurts too much for me to go, no one was unking, but they as a congergation, or the leadership was no there for me but it is a double hurt, it is hard for to go where I was part of a couple of so very long. Our church was very much a part of our life, I din't lose just my marriage, I lost my home. Becasue of my feelings my sons, especailly my OS has suffered greatly. I should had sucked up & kept on going, now well he has problems that might had happened anyway but I took his main support system away from him.<p>Just wanted you to know I know how you feel.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>She has something better than I have to offer. I wish I knew what it was, she is not a morally good woman, doesn't believe in working, uses another mans money to get what she wants, then goes back to her husband like nothing happened.<hr></blockquote><p>The only thing that she 'has' that you don't - is the ability to help him "feel" again - it is called "hormones". I believe he is questioning everything about his life - because of the "hormonal" feeling he had - he is just a natural thinker and not a natural feeler.<p>I do hope you find a church that will give you some support, and keep you nourished in the word - because this is just a difficult time - and we need all the help we can get! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Also.... I know he has betrayed you terribly, but I just have a feeling that you probably have plenty of time before getting a lawyer. See what happens after he begins working with Steve Harley.<p>Another thing... I know S-N-L has to be truly convinced that the MB principles work before he will do them whole-heartedly. Keep up your plan A, and always be honest with him. Be level-headed, but don't be afraid to share issues that you are dealing with - re: father. I suspect he will have good suggestions as decisions need to be made - he is a very good thinker - just not a great "feeler".<p>Take Care!
TNT

Thinker,<p>My advice to you is this: keep counseling with the Harleys and do what they suggest. They have more experience and are more objective in these matters of what to do next. Also, you should discuss the idea of the attorney with them prior to doing it (I did).<p>Thinker, you are stressed and frustrated to the max. I really do understand how you feel, too. All I can say is this - please try to take the pressure off of yourself. You know, we have all tried all of these things you are doing - to rationalize with the WS, to present information to them about why we as the BS and current marriage partner are the better choice, statistics on affairs and second marriages, etc. The bottom line is that SNL is the only one who will ultimately decide if he is going to come back to the marriage or not. None of the things you are doing, other than changing to become a better marriage partner by implementing MB techniques, are going to help.<p>I loved the book Tough Love, as it describes the WS as feeling "trapped" in the marriage. No doubt, SNL's posts portray his perception of feeling trapped. Turn your focus off of your marriage and onto building the life you want for yourself, and follow the advice of Jenn and Steve - they won't steer you wrong.<p>I ended up divorced, because my exH would not give up the OW and did indeed marry her a couple months after our divorce. I did everything I could to influence those things that I COULD CONTROL. You CAN NOT control what SNL will do or what he thinks. You can control your reaction. Fight for YOURSELF. realize you can only do so much to save the marriage by yourself, and you are doing the right things, Thinker. But, in all of this, do NOT neglect and drain yourself. <p>Let me repeat again: Thinker, you can not control SNL's thoughts or actions. It is time to focus on THINKER - your physical and emotional health. If he won't do the work, then he won't, but you CAN. You can build a better and more emotinally satisfying life for yourself, despite all that has happened.<p>Know that other BS's have been where you are now. No matter how our marriages ended - reconciliation or not - we have survived, endured and eventually thrived, again. YOU can, too!<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Thinker}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p> Desiree

TrustnTrue - Yes he did have a hormonal high with the other woman. Who wouldn't with what she offered to my H? He lusted for her, and with this being her 2nd physical affair, she has the experience to know what a man wants. As you can tell I hate this woman!<p>Yes, the hurt to go to the church is there. Yes we went as a family, a secular family of husband and wife and 4 kids. Four kids who made their confirmation, and enjoyed sunday school and etc. I can't show my face there again, at least right now. That is why I feel I need to go to another church. My feelings are going to be hard to manage if someone comes up and says, we haven't seen you in awhile. Where is your husband? That is going to hurt big time! Especially to look Pastor Jerry or Pastor Drex in the eyes and they ask how things are going? Knowing my husband was able to lie to them right in the pastors office about not having sex with the other woman. He was able to look at the pastors eyes and say no. What a liar!<p>Roll me Away - Yes I have to work on myself. H is going to do what he wants to do. I am stressed out quite a bit. Hope the next year will prove to be a better year. Life is hard, Life is difficult, Life is not verymuch fun, Life is becoming more miserable everyday. <p>H and I went on service calls, he griped at me while I was driving the van on service call. As it turned out, I missed the exit to take, and there was a massive traffic jam on that exit. So we went around the traffic jam through side roads and ended up where we had to go. We talked a bit about his short temper, and he said he was sorry for getting upset with me. He is short tempered with me quite a lot, a recognizes the issue.<p>We went out to dinner, and then to the movies. At the parking lot at dinner, we started to talk about his dad. His dad is ill, due to drinking excessively, and smoking. Anyways, I talked a bit about his dad and mentioned the affair his father had. That somehow ended up in talking about his affair. I couldn't eat. So we walked out of the restaurant and walked to the bookstore for about an hour. I got 2 books, and calmed down. We went back to eat dinner and then to the movies. <p>Little triggers like that send me feeling low and I tried to not let any tears appear, and they started flowing. This is not easy, and it stinks. We stopped to get gas, and H came in a sat in the drivers seat while tank filling up. He looked at me and my thoughts went to H sitting in the rental car in Arizona (where OW lives) and she in the seat next to him. The way he looked at me made me think of him seeing her. H asked what I was thinking and I had to tell him. He didn't say much. I wonder and wonder and keep saying to myself, this is driving me nuts. Anyways, part of the problem is it took H 5 months later to tell me it was physical, and to know he lied for that amount of time is insane. <p>Thanks for all your help.

thinker,<p>You know, you and your H remind me a lot of me and my H. If you ever want to email me just let me know.<p>Keep your chin up!<p>love and light,<p>Jacky

Nina - if you have the time, maybe e-mail would be good. To have someone else's viewpoint and to maybe learn from you two. <p>Last night was an nice night with H. We went to the movies and we didn't LB, some affection was expressed. But thoughts of her appeared in my mind with the events we did. Feels like at times I am going nuts. Partly too many things to think of, too many things to accomplish, and too many demands on our time. I felt guilty going out, should of tried to get business paper work done, try to get things done at home. But I said, what the heck, lets try to have some fun. <p>Need to go to my mom and dads, to see what is going on there. Try to support mom and go there every 2 days. This is so HARD, seeing ones parent deteriate before your eyes. It is hard for mom and I feel for her. Gave her a big hug last time I was there, told her she is doing a good job, I am there for her. <p>I guess time to go for a walk with the dog. Need to keep in shape (do for myself) and talk to God and think. I find walking a relief of some sort. With the surgery on my L knee, was unable to walk for exercise. Dr. gave me okay to start walking slowly and increase distance. Used to walk 3-6 miles a day. Keep in touch.

thinker,<p>I have a few questions.<p>Did SNL sleep with you after he slept with Ms. [censored], without you knowing about his affair?<p>Is he religious? Does he believe in God and Jesus?<p>Thanks for answering them.<p>Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

Hi Thinker,<p>I haven't said anything up to now because I guess I just don't feel comfortable when both the WS and BS are lurking in on eachother's business.<p>I feel for you. I also feel like you guys could be me and my X. It's scary how alike this all gets to be and I know he doesn't think he's justifying his behavior, but I believe he is. My X did the same thing. He talked like a moral boyscout thruout our marriage, then after I found out about all his cheating, there was no such thing as right or wrong anymore, no such thing as black and white, EVERYTHING was gray. Sound familiar (SNL-"an affair is just a thing that happens")?<p>If anything, I believe it would be good for your kids to continue in church just so they learn about right and wrong, good and bad, build their character. All this GRAY crap is what they get taught in the schools now and it needs to be countered. God's influence is strong if you keep it in their lives, and even if they stray - the first time something goes wrong in their lives, they'll come back. And of course there are a million reasons for YOU to be close to God.<p>Keep on. I know it's so hard and it's the worse pain in the world when the person you love keeps tearing your heart out, and I have so much sorrow for you. It won't be like this forever and people (like us) are there for you when you need to cry. Take care.

Hi thinker,<p>My email addy is jackinoz16@hotmail.com.<p>I will be checking my email regularly, and will get back to you as soon as I can (moving house today!!!) But I will make it a priority to check up on you.<p>Love and lots of healing light,<p>Jacky

anna..... have a few questions.<p>Did SNL sleep with you after he slept with Ms. [censored], without you knowing about his affair?<p>snl...That is not a very nice way of characterizing someone, but to answer your question this has been a very hard area. I stopped any physical contact with my w when I realized I was feeeling love for the ow, long before we met. But then you need to understand I had been emotionally withdrawn for years, were physical at most a few times a year, and I had a seperate bedroom last 5 years (an arrangement my wife was content with). After discovery it was up to my wife, the issue being what are my obligations to her as a H vs my feelings for her as a man. I am very conflicted about it. <p>anna....Is he religious? Does he believe in God and Jesus?<p>snl...Yes.<p>[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

SNL,<p>I am still unclear of something. Here's my question.<p>Did you ever, even one time, after you had sex with Ms. Pure and Innocent, have sex with your wife without her knowledge of you having sex with another person? <p>I would appreciate a yes or no so there won't be any misunderstanding.<p>Thanks.<p>ANNA<p>[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>