Ok I have been reading this post from the beginning and at one point I wanted to jump in and say - Ding - Ding - Round #2 has begun... The simple fact is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion - everyone is different that is what makes the world go around... I mean I actually didn't start dating until my divorce was over - and final but still - I don't even think I was ready for that because I ended up in a relationship that right now I believe is just turning to plain friendship - which is ok - at least I am aware of this - But sometimes I think divorces drag on and on - and sometimes it is of no fault of the BS - so in a case like that - I don't think that it is fair to say that person cannot date because he or she will be cheating... -- I mean there are alot of reasons why divorces are prolonged and some of them maybe out of the BS's control - so why should they put their life on hold.. Most people in a situation where they have been betrayed by a spouse really don't want the divorce in the first place - so before the divorce starts I am sure there has been a lot of soul searching.... So if that case - I don't think that any one person has the right to tell them they are wrong or not... In Startin over's case - he met someone and fell in love and he is happy - so good for him - Isn't that what we all want - We don't want that WS to win - we don't want to end up bitter and resentful for the rest of our lives - so I think if you find someone you like - then to each their own -- Everyone knows what is best for them - and they can make their decisions....

c...Sometimes people do things they know are wrong. Sometimes people are not sure if it’s right or wrong and still do them. Other times people know it’s wrong and don’t do it.

But for one’s own sake, they should try to understand why they make/made certain decisions.

sufdb....Amen brother, and pass the ammo.

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>In Startin over's case - he met someone and fell in love and he is happy - so good for him - Isn't that what we all want - We don't want that WS to win - we don't want to end up bitter and resentful for the rest of our lives - so I think if you find someone you like - then to each their own -- Everyone knows what is best for them - and they can make their decisions....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you very much for the support, I didnt mean to get pissy.....but I was the one being attacked for voicing an opinion. Then Chris brought my dating before my divorce wasnt final......which I never denied, but he tried to put me down for it. Im not upset with anyone here, but please let us have our own opinions without being hammered.

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 01:31 PM: Message edited by: StartinOver ]</small>

Startin Over - You are very welcome - I just don't think that everyone has to do everything the same way - What is good for one person might not be good for another - !!! I mean like I said I waited until after I was divorced - but I am thinking instead of just getting out there dating - I ended up in a serious relationship and it just isn't what I need right now - but I had to make that choice on my own - my own decision... People learn by their mistakes - sorry to say but no one is perfect... And for the record I don't think you sounded pissy at all - but you guys can bicker back and forth about this forever and there is never going to be one right answer or one wrong answer - there will be plenty of opinions for sure - but it all comes down to - you are the one that has to live with your decisions - So you are entitled to make your own... And I for one am happy to know that after all of this crap I have been through that maybe just maybe there might be someone out their perfect for me like your wife is for you Startin Over...!!! You give me hope.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just for the record maw64......my wife was a friend of a friend whom I met at Chuck e Cheese with our kids. We never went out or anything.....just talked when we would run into each other. Later I found out she was divorced from a serial cheater.....so we had alot to talk about and alot in common. We never intended on getting together at all.......as a matter of fact, I had told her I was gonna be a single guy forever. Well, things didnt turn out as expected......we fell in love and ended up married. What in the world was so wrong with that?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I mean there are alot of reasons why divorces are prolonged and some of them maybe out of the BS's control
Yes. but one reason this specific thread was started was niceguyjim said, "My new girlfriend thinks I should file for divorce, and I guess I think so to, afterall, I don't really want her back anymore."

If he has not even decided to file for divorce, why does he have a girlfriend? Does this mean that he thinks it's okay to date while married and not even seeking a divorce?

girlfriend said it has been a year and - so why should they put their life on hold.
And as I have expressed numerous times, why does not dating mean they are putting their life on hold? The ONLY way they can "move on" is to date?

From where I am sitting - I am thinking nothing - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope that I only get so lucky...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
[QBgirlfriend said it has been a year and - so why should they put their life on hold.
And as I have expressed numerous times, why does not dating mean they are putting their life on hold? The ONLY way they can "move on" is to date?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Chris..........dating is ONE WAY to move on.....not the only. Everyone is different and dating and entering new relationships is a way of moving on. I happen to like the company of a woman.......hence I dated and ended up in a relationship. Even though I said I was gonna stay single......Im obviously not built to be by myself. I love companionship. I love a partner.....is something wrong with me???

Chris - I think the question becomes - what does it matter to you that niceguyjim has a girlfriend??? I mean yes we have our opinions but you are somewhat preaching - that what is right for you and what you believe in should be right for everyone - and unfortunately that is not the case - In a perfect world maybe - then maybe there wouldn't be so many affairs - but in reality - this is not the case... Sure some people can say you are not better than that WS because you are dating someone before you are divorced - or someone can say - listen he/she has been dating while you were married go out there and have some fun considering all of the pain and anguish you have been through !! Now who is wrong and who is right ??? There really is not right or wrong answer.... There are people who never will ever get divorced because they don't believe in it - (regardless of what the spouse did) or sometimes people just cannot afford it - so there really is no cut and dry answer... Niceguyjim and Startin over did what was right for them just as you are doing what is right for you... And you know what - in my eyes you are all right because it is your life to live how you want to....

Then Chris brought my dating before my divorce wasnt final......which I never denied, but he tried to put me down for it.
Uh, I never tried to put you down for it. I simply said you did it (dated before divorce).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StartinOver:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
[QBgirlfriend said it has been a year and - so why should they put their life on hold.
And as I have expressed numerous times, why does not dating mean they are putting their life on hold? The ONLY way they can "move on" is to date?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Chris..........dating is ONE WAY to move on.....not the only.[QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But if someone is considering dating, you say, "Good for you do. Do it. You need to/should move on" as if it's the only way to move on.

what does it matter to you that niceguyjim has a girlfriend???
I was not concerned specifically with jim's dating situation (as I have not been concerned with SO's dating situation)

I was steering clear of that specific issue of HIS, which is why I brought it over to this thread. Again, not specifically about his dating but the topic as a whole.

Sure some people can say you are not better than that WS because you are dating someone before you are divorced
That's not what I am trying to do (put down people by saying they are doing the same as the ws) but using that as an example is pretty easy.
Some people date immediately upon separation, find someone and get married and are happy. But this is the exception and not the norm. Also, they ALMOST always, did not have a chance to deal with the end of their previous relationship which will usually come around & bite them in the [censored] later.

This is not my opinion but a majority of "realtionship" experts and studies.

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Ok !!! Got ya !!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

maw..I think the question becomes - what does it matter to you (chris) that niceguyjim has a girlfriend???

sufdb...These things "matter" to chris, (and me, and others of our ilk), cause we seek a predictable enviroment to live in. We want to be able to "trust" others will act in ways we understand, as well as be confident our actions are predictable and do not create conflict. This assures all of us greater ability to have productive lives (meaning not wasting time and resources on resolving needless conflicts or recovering from unexpected injury). Hence folks with such concerns seek public discussion and social pressure to promote such outcomes. Clearly human beings will do what they want, it is the nature of our species, just as clearly that leads to very poor social outcomes unless individual needs are balanced against the benefits of a predictable social order. So advocacy such as this is of value, and certainly expectations re the "rules" of interpersonal relationships have a profound affect on a society.

maw...I mean yes we have our opinions but you are somewhat preaching - that what is right for you and what you believe in should be right for everyone -

sufdb...Yep. And that is ok, it is what we all do if we feel strongly enough about the issue, I bet you do too. The preaching complaint (if true, and I don't see any preaching going on myself), would not invalidate the process, it just would be a wakeuo call to chris he is losing his audience and needs to fine tune his persuasion tools...or it can mean the complaintant (you) is using an unjustified charge to further their agenda, which is (judgeing by what you wrote) to have maximum freedom (in an acceptable social sense) to date.

maw...Sure some people can say you are not better than that WS because you are dating someone before you are divorced - or someone can say - listen he/she has been dating while you were married go out there and have some fun considering all of the pain and anguish you have been through !! Now who is wrong and who is right ???

sufdb...I didn't hear chris say that, I did hear him draw a logical inference and ask for discussion about it. If a bs "dates" while married, and used the argument the ws was wrong solely on that basis, then they in fact are no different. But as you point out, it is not that simple usually. And also IMO there is a far greater expectation that the marriage is in fact over before a bs dates and the ws is aware of that. So that brings us back to my position, that all of this depends on what marriage is, and when is it over. I support the concept a married person should not date under any circumstances. But I also support the understanding marriage is not determined by a piece of paper.

maw...There really is not right or wrong answer....

sufdb...I disagree, I think there are very clear right and wrong answers once one understands and applies the relevant underlying principles, that apply to everyone...assuming we all seek a stable society.

maw...There are people who never will ever get divorced because they don't believe in it -

sufdb...There is no way one person can force marriage, so one who says they are not divorced just cause they don't believe it, has revealed themselves to be mentally ill ie. unable to understand reality. They may choose themself not to seek divorce (being extremely rule motivated), but they cannot prevent someone from divorcing them, which is the same thing, the marriage ends, and they are divorced.

maw...so there really is no cut and dry answer...

sufdb...I agree, any answer requires a significant discussion of the actual circumstances to arrive at a conclusion as to ones actual marital status, which determines the freedom to date.

maw...Niceguyjim and Startin over did what was right for them just as you are doing what is right for you... And you know what - in my eyes you are all right because it is your life to live how you want to....

sufdb...maybe, maybe not, maybe they made a mistake....but anyways if they did not understand the principles, and apply them, it was a roll of the dice, luck, that they made the right choice. And IMO people who make decisions without understanding why are less safe than those who do, even if those who do make an error. But I agree we all have the fundamental right to live our life how we want too....just don't cry about the consequences if you do it shooting from the hip.

If someone IS dating I usually tread very lightly concerning their specific situation.

But talking about the subject in general, I'm just a little shy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Chris,
If you have the time, I posted to you on GQII.
You have been heavy on my heart the last two days

thanks
tsc

BTW-- Not everyone agrees with my take on when it is acceptable to date after/during divorce or seperation. (I can see that now!)
In my take on what the bible says, If I were to divorce my husband because he cheated....I could divorce him (in three months in my state.).and date AFTER it was final,WHEN I was ready. God would honor and bless this.

In my take on what the Bible says about divorce for [i]other [/i] reasons than adultry( breaking the covenant)...........IF you end up divorced for another reason.......you should never marry again.
I'm not saying what is "right" or "wrong". Not really wanting to judge what anyone has done or is doing. Just what I believe God is saying to me.

tsc

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: tsc ]</small>

TSC, Hi! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am going to check out your story because I saw that you "renewed" your vows?! How wonderful! I think I hear exactly where you are coming from and also totally understand your discretion in sharing it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have studied divorce/marriage/remarriage all year, with much prayer, from the Bible and from reading other pastors. My situation was so "unique" in some ways. And, there was no adultery. And both Christians. My husband actually sounds alot like Starting Over, but I am sure they aren't the same person because details aren't the same. And I don't really want to share why they sound alike 'cause I don't want to share about my marriage/divorce here. But... I do hear where you are coming from. I know what God's Word says about divorce/remarriage and that is why I remain single. I will remain single until my husband remarries. I like what adgirl said about integrity because I feel the same way. Actually, this is one of the first times in my life I have not been dating or married, or had a longing too. And it is good. It is good to be simply seeking the Lord, and not a man, to meet my needs. It has even been good to "suffer" and hurt in the ways I have. I know that sounds strange to some, but it is refining me and causing me to grow and other things. Anyways...when my husband remarries, according to the Bible I will no longer be bound, and I think you would know why that is. I still hope and pray that he doesn't remarry because I love him, and I certainly won't have a party when he does or even think "yay, I'm free now to remarry." Actually, I don't know if I ever will want to remarry. I am still young though, but it would be wrong to marry someone when I still love him and it will take time for me to get to a place where I would be willing to love someone else. Right now, the idea of loving another man almost repulses me.

Well, I still said again more than I wanted. I don't feel up for this bru-ha-ha in here... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OUT OF CURIOSITY... I was wondering and have wondered before, and this is no offense to anyone... but since this is a divorced thread and many here are remarried and say they are happily remarried, why are they in here? Again, I am not asking sarcastically but honestly curious. I came here several months ago seeking prayer and advice on reconciliation. I only came in here a few days though. Then, I recently came back in but it was to find out about something someone said about a restored marriage from advice given here, and I thought maybe it was me who gave that advice and how wonderful that would be that I was used to help restore a marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Silly, I know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But then I had a desire to encourage others who were seeking reconciliation because that is where my heart is... helping others reconcile their marriages. But, anyways... I was just wondering why happily remarried spouses come to a divorced forum? Maybe you have been here for awhile? I'm not sure, but I have wondered about it?

God bless.

lovemyex-
hello! Nice to hear from you. Actually, I've never been here before. First time. I had posted to Chris-CA for another reason over in GQII, and another poster told me he was spending a lot of time over here. I just came looking for him to send him over to my question on GQII.
His thread was so long, so I started reading. Then I couldn't resist putting my oppinion out there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I honestly do not know what I would have done if my husband and I had gotten DV. Still don't. if we divorced for another reason, I don't know for sure what I'd do. I only know what I think God's instructions are. And I would hope I would be able to follow them.

Good luck to you. Don't know what your circumstanses are, but by your name......who knows; sometimes people get remarried. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I am usually (always, really) over on the Recovery board. I will be there for a very long time.......

God Bless
tsc

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Chris -CA123:
<strong>Oh certainly, I hope you don't think I was rude. I was just trying to say that I understand your frustrations.
No, SO was being rude.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeh he was. Just because I said he was confused because he said he was confused (the <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> graemlin) he threw my "storyline" in my face. That isn't playing nice is it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Uhh...and saying IM CONFUSED is not rude adgirl48? You do not even really know me. You based your comment about my confusion on a few threads. Im not confused at all......I wanted to keep my first marriage together, my EX wanted to divorce to be with OM........I met someone I fell in love with and remarried.....Where is the confusion???? The fact that Im remarried to someone I love and is much better for me as a spouse? Where is the confusion?

sufdb- OK I read your response to my response - Whatever - I mean I am not going to get into a big huge disagreement - all I was doing was trying to say that everyone has their own opinions - I guess I was trying to stick up for Startin Over again - because I felt that he was getting preached to - My mistake !!! Ok - I am not going to debate this issue - OK -