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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 96
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I can't even begin to know how you are feeling, although I can imagine you are becoming extremely frustrated with me...and for good reason. I know you are probably thinking I am walking around acting "indifferent" or not even caring about everything that's going on in our lives, but that couldn't be any further from the truth. What's going on in our lives is consuming my thoughts and on my mind 24-7. I don't think I've had a peaceful day in months. And, to be honest, it's getting worse for me. I'm now in an irritable, angry phase. I'm going to try to explain why.

It appears to me sometimes that you are walking around like everything is OK with us and that everything is going to be fine. Bob, it's not OK...we have serious issues we're facing. I violated our marriage and the vows we took and the simple fact that you are willing to forgive me so quickly is mind-boggling to me. I know your newfound faith is playing a large part with that, but I think eventually you are going to need to actually face this head-on and go through an angry phase and deal with it too. You can't just hide behind your faith assuming everything is out in the open and now we can work this out. I know you want to believe evertyhing will be OK, but have you really even begun to ask yourself and/or me...why this happened? I know communication isn't one of my strong points, but I believe some of this lack of communication (at least on my part), is that I'm the one who cheated on you...I don't know how to approach the conversationt. But, it's your issue too and you have a right to ask about it. Why haven't you? When you ask me lately "how are you" and I say "in a funk" or "not wonderful"...why dont' you ever pursue the issue? Is it because you are scared what I have to say? It's not all my responsibility to talk things through. Or, you just say "your're OK". NO I"M NOT OK!!! I have a ton of issues that I'm trying to deal with and it's overwhelming me.

I'm dealing with the fact that I may not love my husband anymore. I'm dealing with the fact that I am considering a separation for us. I'm dealing with the fact that I cheated on you emotionally/physically for 6 months and have strong feelings for that man. I'm dealing with the fact that I have 3 children involved here that could be hurt by all of this. Among the other daily things I have going on in my life. So, please don't try to tell me I'll be OK. Let me have my feelings and emotions and try to sort them out, in whatever way I know how.

I also know how hurt you are that I can't be intimate with you, let alone kiss you in Florida. You aren't the one that had an affair. For the last six months, I've allowed myself to open up my heart and soul to someone else. Just as you said God filled your void, R**** filled a void in me that has been empty for so long. It's obviously hard to just redirect the feelings to you...especially since I wasn't sharing them with you for so long prior to all of this anyway. I know that you want to know if I've talked to him...and I have been honest with you when I said yes. I also want you to know that him and I came to an agreement a couple of weeks ago that we would have no contact with each other so that we can give our marriages the full attention they deserve. And, honestly, that is a hard thing for me to do and it obviously is something that makes me sad, confused, and maybe even angry. I was emotionally attached to him and there are some feelings there that I need to try to deal with.

I'm surprised that you never questioned me on my feelings for him. Aren't you curious? You do deserve me to be honest. I know you probably think this was an impulsive thing that I did, but it wasn't. Things haven't been going great for us (me and you) for a very long time, and his marriage wasn't going so well either. We turned to each other for conversation and support and after we filled each other's emotional needs, it turned physical. Him and I have had a connection for years, and our friendship grew into something stronger. For the first time in years, I felt able to pour my heart and soul out to someone and I WANTED to do it. I was able to share things with him that I haven't been able to share with ANYONE and it came so naturally and easily, which is all the more confusing to me. Why am I able to share things with him that I couldn't share with you? These are questions I'm asking myself and trying to find answers to. I'm also confused because when I was doing these things, I didn't feel guilty.

I've never been overly open to communication with you (especially when it comes to our problems) and we both know how I am with the passion side of the relationship. Truthfully, I have thought about it and it did bother me. I think I just talked myself into believing that passion (and that doesn't just mean s e x) wasn't something I really needed in my marriage to be happy. As long as we had a friendship, didn't fight, had fun together, shared the same values for raising our children, etc. things would be OK. I know you think it's because I've built up a wall with you for not meeting my emotional needs, and that may be partly true, but it's not the sole reason. Bob, you have not been an awful husband. You are a great friend to me, a great provider, and the most remarkable father any woman could want for her children. But, I think I'm realizing that's not enough for me anymore. I want the passion, the s e x, and everything else that goes along with it. I want feelings of desire for my spouse; I want to hold hands with my husband, I want to lay on the couch with my husband and just cuddle and watch TV; I want my husband to throw me on the bed, couch, or whatever else is in the area and make love to me; I want to have intimate conversations with my husband; I want to ask my husband how his day was when he walks in from work; and I want to be the one to initiate all of this too. I know these are all feelings that are in me, but as painful as it is, for some reason, I can't allow myself to open that emotional side of myself up to you. As my counselor said, either you aren't able to get me to open up, or I won't let you. Is it because I'm not in love with you anymore or is it something else? That's what I'm also trying to figure out.

Bob, I know I said I think this is me just not being in love with you anymore, and we both need to realize this may be the case. I know that hurts for you to hear, but I need to be completely honest with you. And, if not, we need to consider how we are going to handle that going forward. You deserve far more from a spouse than what you are getting from me right now. I'm hurting you, and I don't want to do that anymore. I just don't know any other way to deal with my issues.

I'm so wrong for not dealing with this earlier in our marriage, but truthfully, I don't even know if I knew what I was feeling or not feeling, or what I needed and didn't need out of a marriage. I believe counseling is helping me in figuring out what some of my problems are with you, and also what I want individually from myself, from my husband, and in general in my life for my happiness. For the first time in my life, I'm trying to decide what makes me happy...instead of trying to please everyone else. I've always tried to "keep the peace" which is probably why you and I don't argue a lot. I avoid confrontation. And I believe you do too.

These are the feelings I'm struggling with on a daily basis. I'm also struggling with being the inflictor of pain on you, because I've shared so much with you. Regardless of whether I love you anymore, and regardless of how good/bad our marriage has been, we have a history and we've started a family. And, although I can't muster up any romantic feelings for you, I know deep down what a wonderful man you are. I could stay in this relationship, business as usual, and get by. I can focus my attention on the kids, be nice, have s e x twice a year, and die...if not satisfied, at least without huge regret. But, don't we deserve more from each other? You also said it was somewhat selfish of me to want to be happy and that marriage isn't about being happy. I disagree. It's obviously about making a commitment, raising children, planning a future, but you also have to be happy. Otherwise, what will we have when our children are grown and gone from our lives? You and I will be looking at each other wondering "what in the h e l l do we do with each other now?" Right now we have our kids to focus on and it kind of makes you not worry or pay attention to everything else that we have going on.

I know you are trying to change your ways of thinking and what you do for me to become the person you think I want. I want you to know how much I appreciate everything you are doing. Believe me...even though I don't say it...I've certainly noticed. But I feel like you are walking on eggshells with me and being overly nice to me. It's kind of making me uncomfortable. But, like I said, you need to let me deal with my emotions and feelings and let me get it all out. You can't try to change my way of thinking or pressure me into the way you are feeling.

I'm basically at a loss of where to go from here. It's been about 3 months since I told you how I've been feeling, and almost one month since you found out about the affair. I'm no further along in my decision-making process than I was. And, it's killing us even more. I'm getting further away from you emotionally and I realize I'm not the most pleasant person to be around lately. I don't like who I am at home anymore and I haven't for quite some time. I feel that I don't have many happy moments and that I'm just going through the motions. I've mentioned separation and I know you are against that because you think I will run to R****. That is not the case, whether you, your brother or your other family members believe it. I still think it would just give us both some space and time away from each other to think things through and really see if we would miss each other. We could do it, if we both agree, for a set period of time, with clear objectives in mind. Bob, I really think I need time away from you. We don't have to be completely honest with the girls. And, you could still see them every day after school.

I'm sorry I wrote this to you at work, but I wrote another letter a couple of weeks ago and have not found a good time to give it to you. I've left it in your car and in the house for you, then removed it. And I struggle to find the courage to talk to you at night. But, I think we need to make some sort of short-term arrangement here. I thought I would write because I've always been better at putting things on paper and I don't know if I could say some of this face-to-face.

We obviously need to talk and maybe we can do that tonight or over the weekend, so you have time to sort out your feelings.

Love,
***

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,714
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Okay, you go this letter today from your wife?

Man, I was hoping it was a letter I could edit before it is sent!

IGP, in spite of the way it is written, I think there’s one clear point in this letter. You two need to talk about what went wrong and how to fix it. Does your WW have this site? On a certain site there is a special area for spouses who are trying to end affairs. It’s locked to anyone without approval. If you want the link, send me an email greengablesmb@hotmail.com.

Do you have a lawyer? If not, get one, and here’s why: you want to make sure if she leaves and takes the children that you can either stop her from taking the children or if she does it won’t affect the custody agreement should she file for divorce. These days dads get a bum rap.

So, how do you think you should handle this letter?

Joined: Jul 2001
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Okay, I’ve scanned some of your posts. Boy, you’ve a great strategy for getting wide ranging opinions – posts on all the boards! I think that was brilliant.

If your wife insists on separation, I suggest you either consider Plan B or a controlled separation as described by Dr. Lee Raffel in her book Should I Stay or Should I Go? How a Controlled Separation Can Save Your Marriage.

In Plan B there is no contact between you and your spouse and basically there is no negotiation until certain conditions are met, the primary one being no contact at all with OP.

In a Controlled Separation, everything about the separation is negotiated up front. The day the separation starts, the day it ends, who gets what, who has the children when, what you’ll tell others about your situation, marriage counseling and … dating as in each other or possibly dating others. And in a CS you two have a written and signed contract.

Dating others seems the antithesis of building a marriage. However, at the separation point when there is already an OP, the WS is likely to see the OP whether you’ve started Plan B or a Controlled Separation or worse, a willy-nilly trial separation. The difference is you are aware of what’s going on.

Ideally, you two wouldn’t separate. Unfortunately, that is a decision she can make on her own. I did after suggesting three times that we separate. After the last Plan B letter I gave my H., I left with the children 3 days later.

What I’m trying to say is while you can be a beacon of light that doesn’t always work.

Joined: Jan 2004
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IGP,

I posted a response to this identical post over in General Questions II.

Titleist

Joined: Oct 2001
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I second GG on getting attorney to secure the safety of the kids.

Also learning and doing plan B is good and controlled sep is good as well.

My thoughts:
1)she's justifying her affair.
2)she is caught up in the edorphin response of it...hence her saying the parts about being in love and the not in love feeling with you vs. with OM.
3)she is blaming you for forgiving her. Pure fog statement. They will blame and do whatever they can to justify their stuff.
4)she says she's going to stop seeing OM so they can make both M's work. Geez. OM is married as well.
5)she is confused about sitch she's placed the kids in.

I also would add that since she is saying she's not seeing OM, I would have a PI hired and have an investigation that she is completely unaware of. You see, my x wrote same almost exact letter...he claimed for six mos. he wasn't seeing ow (Plural) but the PI confirmed that he was still seeing them both and was just getting his ducks in a row legally and using time to try to hide monetary assets most likely.

The WS when fogged, will lie for time and lie to get whatever they need to accomplish their goals now. You need to figure out her intent here. Is she really going to try? If she is really not seeing OM now she will go into a withdrawal state and I suggest if this is TRUE and confirmed via a PI, then you should get counseling from Harley's or a MB counselor on how to get her through this transition time.

I say to figure out the direction this is going but anyway...retain and secure a lawyer so the kids aren't going out of the state with this woman who is not thinking clearly at all. Letter btw...is legal confirmation of her affair, her diminished capacity as a responsible parent, and is more than enough evidence to get a case started. I also would keep everything under your hat and very quiet until you have confirmation your marriage is moving towards healing vs. a lie to buy time and help her perpetuate an affair...

The OM btw..might be using this tactic of "working on his M" to buy time to get his legal ducks lined up too. She must agree to complete NC and you need proof.

If I had known that he had been seeing OW for the ENTIRE 6 mos., I'd have filed earlier and probably had money now. Instead they used the time to squander monetary assets and transfer them. I bought the whole "I am working on our M" thing hook, line and sinker.

Rely on your brains right now, not your heart for clear decision making ok?

Joined: Jun 1999
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IGP,
I don't have any advice for you but I know how you feel, my x said some of the same things to me after she left. I was fortunate in that seem was only thinking of herself and the kids stay with me.

Hang in!

Joined: Nov 2000
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WOW!

What a letter. Talk about an insight into the mind of a WW. Thanks for posting it.

I agree with the hiding of monetary assets and the getting ducks lined up statements. A lot of it is fog talk.

I will add one thing. I think a WW knows they are hurting the kids and you. They also are completely pre-occupied with the OM. Kids are second on the priority list. If you want the kids, now is the time to get them. It worked for me. I'm not saying to pull the trigger and get the divorce, but it's something to think about.

Joined: Feb 2004
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Hi! First of all, I can only imagine what you (and the kids, because they DO sense something going on, I can assure you) are going thru. However, may I ask one quick question?

What do you think might have led up to your WW's affair?

Since nothing really exists in a vacuum, was there any neglect or emotional abuse involved? Was she simply fed up, or anything like that? Did she have any prior undisclosed traumas or emotional/mental problems?

Not to "blame the victim" or anything, just trying to get an idea of the bigger picture.

Mainly because, except for the affair part, that letter could have been written by me. It's only by sheer force of will that I haven't availed myself of "offers of companionship" thus far.

The big picture, to me, would be: how hands-on a parent have you been, how up-to-date are your bills, how much time did you and WW spend as a couple, how much time did all of you spend as a family, did you and WW have any kind of agreement about spiritual or emotional or even financial and material goals, how much were you "there" for each other in the past?

Because, and I'm just putting my two cents in as someone who feels less than enchanted with my husband right now, although I have not succumbed to the lure of an easy affair or a quickie filing as of yet, I cannot emphasize to you how unutterably LONELY it is to feel completely alone in the world while being married to a perfectly nice person who is so unbelievably CLUEless.

Honestly, I assure you that my H is not necessarily cruel, just clueless. I do believe that he really doesn't know (and sadly, never will) what it is that's so not right.

What do you think brought you guys to this sad point in your relationship? Because, and of course, it's the kids that'll bear the brunt of the fallout, despite your obvious and heart-wrenching misery currently.

I sure do hope that either y'all can work things out positively, or that at least y'all can agree to disagree on the interpersonal part (ok, major understatement) but at least make sure that you are able to recover emotionally enough to be there for the kids now that they'll need you more than ever.

Best of luck, sorry I don't have better advice than the devil's advocate perspective thingie. I'll keep an eye on your posting and see what you end up discovering.

Hang in there,

Jodiferous

Joined: Aug 2002
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IGP:

Quite a letter. If you look carefully...you will see the earmarks of independent thinking i.e. I...me..all the selfish behavior and thus thinking, of a person in the midst of an affair. If I had to bet money..I would bet she is still in contact with the OM.

I think GG and Fof 1, H of 0 is spot on. Hire a PI, retain counsel, get your financial ducks in a row. In some states like mine (NJ) you can file for custody of the children before you get divorced. And, you can file yourself. Have documentation. What applies to divorce..i.e. no fault...does NOt apply to child custody. If you are prepared to have full care of your children with visitation by her have lots of documentation. i.e proof of her affair...and find out from the courts what they will accept.

My guess is she is cake eating...still seeing this guy...and now wants a separation not for the sake of your marriage...but to now continue the affair in her own space.

I think GG is right. Know what you want before she leaves. And whatever you do..DO NOT LEAVE yourself. If she wants a separation...let her do the legwork.

It does not sound like you are in recovery...and it does not sound like you are close to doing that.

Have you set goals as to what you want...how you are going to get there ? And the limits ? Do you have a plan?

Joined: Jan 2004
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God, this letter could have been written by me. Most everything in it.

The problem is, our marriage went south via us quitting meeting each other's EN's looooooooong before my A and I wasn't strong enough to push for change before it was too late. The A has solidified the yearning in my heart for something more that I already had for several years. It's almost like I used the A to justify my position and admit to myself that I didn't want to be married to my H anymore, to see if I was someone who could be loved, not just a golf-buddy or a kid-factory.

Separation may be cake-eating here, I did some of that too. All I can say is that we separated for a year, but never really did (he only slept somewhere else, spent all his time here). I used the same excuse to separate (needed space to figure out if I would miss him). BS is what it was, and it didn't work. I subconsciously also wanted space to facilitate my A b/c I felt loved, cared for, important, close to someone. My H was left in limbo, not fair to him. Now my H is back home (he just came back, we never talked about it which is how he has always done things he wanted to do) and has taken his rightful place here. He hasn't moved back into the bedroom yet.

Every day that passes that I spend not making a move on our situation is a day wasted. I have to do the hardest thing I have ever done now -- and something I feared I would end up doing the day I married him -- ask for a divorce. I haven't mustered the courage yet to face my kids.


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