would you want to date a woman that is still married, hurting in separation, waiting for a divorce, that is clingy and needy? and then later finds out that she is using you and dumps you were a rebound relationship and a pain pacifier?

its just looking at heads from the tails perspective. . .

wiftty

Thanks for all the input. This is a tough time for me as I am working my way through both the legal matters of the divorce and the emotional matters.

Sounds like at least 6 more months of doing things on my own and with groups of friends. That will give me one year since the time she moved out and left me on my own. Then I can reevaluate.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by baba2:
<strong> Women want to date AVAILABLE men and you are in no way nearly available. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True. What I find interesting is the number of women who don't know that.

JustinExplorer,

--I am NOT divorcing my wife. She left me to get her own place so she could be with the OM. She is divorcing me so she can be with the OM and marry him. --

TR--Have you ever read this article by Dr. Harley?


Why Women Leave Men

"I hurt all the time because I feel alone and abandoned."

"My husband is no longer my friend."

"The only time he pays attention to me is when he wants sex."

"He is never there for me when I need him the most."

"When he hurts my feelings he doesn't apologize."

"He lives his life as if we weren't married; he rarely considers me."

We're like ships passing in the night, he goes his way and I go mine."

"My husband has become a stranger to me, I don't even know who he is anymore."

"He doesn't show any interest in me or what I do."

Women tend to be more concerned about their marriages than men. They buy most of the books on marriage to try to improve them and initiate most marriage counseling. They often complain about their marriages to their closest friends and sometimes to anyone who will listen. And they also file for divorce twice as often as men.

Why do women seem so dissatisfied with marriage? What do they want from their husbands? What bothers them so much about marriage that most are willing to risk their families' future to escape it?

The most common reason women give for leaving their husbands is "mental cruelty." When legal grounds for divorce are stated, about half report they have been emotionally abused. But the mental cruelty they describe is rarely the result of their husband's efforts to drive them crazy. It is usually husbands being indifferent, failing to communicate and demonstrating other forms of neglect.

Another reason for divorce reported almost as much as mental cruelty is "neglect" itself. These include both emotional abandonment and physical abandonment. Husbands that work away from the home, sometimes leaving their wives alone for weeks at a time, fall into this category.

When all forms of spousal neglect are grouped together, we find that it is far ahead of all the other reasons combined that women leave men. Surprisingly few women divorce because of physical abuse, infidelity, alcoholism, criminal behavior, fraud, or other serious grounds. In fact, I find myself bewildered by women in serious physical danger refusing to leave men that threaten their safety.

Simply stated, women leave men when they are neglected. Neglect accounts for almost all of the reasons women leave and divorce men.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html

There is the link to the rest of the article--maybe you should read it---and see if maybe from your wife's perspective--the marriage was over before you even recognized a problem--

most men I know--don't know there is a problem in their marriage until their wives are telling them they want a divorce--


I think there is a big difference between motives and actions when comparing her and me. [/QB][/QUOTE]

TR,

That is so painful every time I read it because I don't think I neglected my wife, I don't believe that I invalidated her feelings, etc.

However, if you ask her, I'll be she will say that I did.

So what is the reality of it all? I took care of her, I earned a good living, bought a house, a minivan for her, took her on the vacations she wanted to go on, etc.

She tells me I don't know her. We are all wrong for each other.

So what is the truth?

Yes, I failed to meet some of her emotional needs. Out of ignorance, and some selfishness. Everytime I read Ephesians 5, I start to bawl, because I know I didn't love my wife with a sacrificial, Christlike love.

So, instead of just telling me in language I can understand how she feels, she "sneaks out" of the marriage an into a relationship with another man.

All the while, I really just want to love her, and want to be loved myself. Yes, I wanted SF, and was upset that I didn't get as much as I wanted. I asked how I could get her in the mood. What did she say, "be romantic" well ok, what is romantic to you, it's different for everyone.

I'm just venting.

I just want a chance to be the husband God calls me to be, and I pray it is with my first and God willing, only wife.

I'm so upset today, and frustrated. Frustrated with myself, frustrated with my wife who didn't just tell me in language I can understand how she feels, frustrated with God that He let me walk so far away from Him, frustrated that He hasn't brought us back together again, frustrated that our daughter has to suffer because of our selfishness.

I'm just frustrated right now, and I could sure use a prayer and maybe a miracle or two. I'm trying to keep my faith, but it is so hard when I don't see any signs of us getting any closer to reconciliation.

I even pray for the OM and his wife, and I don't pray for harm for him either.

I would love to have a glorious testimony of how God did what I thought was impossible, both in my heart and in our marriage.

And, if I have my way, I'd like it to be soon. Our 8th wedding anniversary is 1 June, what a great present that would be for my beautiful bride to come home.

Tony

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I find interesting is the number of women who don't know that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how many have you sampled? 3, 4?

why don't you conduct a survey at a local spot you hang out. . .

ask them, would you consider a serious relationship with a man that is still married, but whose wife has run off with another man?

i suspect that you are ASSUMING a conclusion from observing women with INCOMPLETE knowledge. . .

its amazing how people draw self serving conclusions. . .

wiftty

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like at least 6 more months of doing things on my own and with groups of friends. That will give me one year since the time she moved out and left me on my own. Then I can reevaluate. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">its not like a predetermined time is required. . . its the time to recover emotionally, and [i][b]to learn what you did wrong, and to correct the biases and attitudes that led you down the wrong path. whether that means personal change or better mate selection is up to you to determine.[/quote]

wiftty

And another question is:

The women who would date a married man, what kind of women are these anyway? Are they desparate? Are they of low self esteem? Are they nutz?

Hey, if you really want women companionship, and you do not care about the morals or values of women, then go find 'em at strip bars or prostitution hangouts. (just kidding, it is not really funny)

What type of women are you thinking of dating anyway?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JustinExplorer:
<strong> I am wondering what people think of the idea of dating while in the process of divorcing. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it varies from person to person.

For ME, I think it's okay to date even when the D isn't finalized. Of course, that's because it's something I have done.

In my case, I went out with a few men for coffee and lunch dates, just to prove to myself that I can still do it. I was an emotional basket case after living through the multiple A's my H had during our entire M. My self esteem was at an all time low. And for whatever reason, I found it easier to build my self esteem from the outside in (getting compliments from others first, before being able to believe them from within). That was last summer, about 6 months after I left my H. Once September rolled around, I quit the dating scene, and MIGHT get back into it again this summer.

Again, in my case, my D isn't yet finalized. According to canadian law (I'm in Ontario), I needed to wait until one full year of legal separation before the D could become final. That happened on November 24, 2003. But I'm still M to the the s.o.b. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I desperately want the M to be over, however, there have been some legal setbacks, and finalizing it is getting dragged further and further. Even when the judge says officially that it's okay to finalize it, it won't be final until the 31st day AFTER he/she says it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> The legal system here is REALLY SLOW. UGH!

Anyways... that was my attempt to point out why I feel it's okay to date while still married, IN MY SITUATION.

For you Justin, I too believe that it is too early. I can totally understand how you are feeling lonely, and longing for companionship. But there are tons of other ways to get that without officially being on the "dating scene". Myself, I joined a local book club (through Oprah.com actually... but we all live in the same town), I joined a new church (and hope to get out to more events now that the nicer weather is here, and the boys are getting better on the bus), I have been working on my (rented) townhouse by gardening & doing some minor decorating, and I've become more involved in my 4 yr old's school by serving as secretary on school council, and a member of the home and school association (PTA). Quite honestly, I have to work on making time to date this summer... hahaha... b/c I've got so many other things to do with my time now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You said so yourself, in this thread, that you aren't the one who wants to get a D, but your W is. Then why would you act as though you do want one? There is almost always hope for reconciliation, and quite frankly, if you were to start dating now, your W would simply feel more justified in her A, and recovery of the M would be next to nil.

Karen

Here's a humorous story form last night. A coworker is in a small band and they were performing at a local bar, so many of us went to offer him some support.

A lady whose divorce was final about a month ago, recently dumped her boyfriend. They did not get along and he was getting very moody. After telling the story, several of the ladies immediately commented that he was her "Transition Man". They all had a good laugh.

I couldn't help but remember what was written in this thread and had my own good laugh.

<small>[ May 16, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: JustinExplorer ]</small>

Topie's story shows why we should be careful about making general statements. She has a long divorce. But I know people who have been in the divorce process for over three years!

How long should a person have to pay for the sins of their spouse?

I agree that a person should wait to start dating. It all depends on the issue, reason for divorce etc...But I have another question related to breaking vows by dating.

What about breaking the vows of marriage in the first place by going for a divorce, to have and to hold, in sickness and in health, till death do us part......

I asked my wife to leave because of an apparent mental incapacity that caused her to abuse us both physically and mentally. Should I have stayed no matter what in sickness and in health, until it killed me so I could follow the vows I made to her and get out of a bad marriage by dying?

I really felt like I was dying inside and contemplated ending my life many many times. Going home was inviting sure discomfort.

I am much better since she is gone, I want to be alive now, kids are happier and we just have to figure out how we will live once the D is final. She is trying to take everything we had and turn it into pennies on the dollar. It will only hurt the kids.

BTW, 4 months and she is trying to date (find a man). Poor unsuspecting wretch. haha

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JustinExplorer:
<strong>How long should a person have to pay for the sins of their spouse? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is not about the Dv, it is about BS itself. Do they have closure in Dv ?. What are left in Dv'ng process ? (financial ? status ? or all ?). I don't want to drag my new mate into my drama in my life !, she would be my new love and why would I want to drag her into my mess ?. The first few years of R should be full of kodak moments. I don't want to be drag into hers either. I would help her as a friend and no dating.

How many Dv'ng people could compartmentalize their emotions ?

As a Christian is a no no ... as a MBer ... we have been warned but I would not judge people who do it.

You know R is not an addition ... it is a multiplication. It is not .5 + .5 = 1 but 1 X 1 = 1 !. So dating while Dv'ng to me is building R based on 1 X .5 = .5 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . Take your time to be a whole person again and/or wait until your next SO to be whole person too ...

-rh-

Hi I am dating while waiting for my final decree. I think my marraige was over when he said he was done with me. I am a whole person. Always have been. I hope I can find a whole man. Not one ruined by his father. All that hurts is how he is hurting my kids.

It is not a joke. He thinks it is. He never cared about our vows. He has cheated on me I was faithful to him until he said he was done.

I hope to find someone who cares about me not my paycheck. and I will win the kids. His parental alienation is almost over.

I can tell you guys are not taken by his lies anymore either. I can tell by how you don;t respond to him as much now as you did in the beginning. I think in his heart he know also.

Wow, I realize one thing. Hired Help gave me this thought.

The WS "SHOULD" BE DATING EVEN A DAY OR TWO AFTER THEY MOVE OUT IF THE DIVORCE IS IN PROCESS!

BECAUSE THAT WAY, IT WILL PROTECT THE "TRUE BLUE" SPOUSE, THE ONE WHO NEVER HAD THE AFFAIRS, FROM TAKING THE "CHEATING SPOUSE" BACK THEREFORE PROLONGING THE AGONY IN BOTH THIER LIVES!

LET THE "CHEATER SPOUSE" FIND A NEW MAN OR WOMAN TO LAY THIER POISON ON. LET THEM FIND THAT NEW FOOL RIGHT AWAY. LET IT DISTRACT THEM FROM THE DIVORCE AND CHILD CUSTODY ISSUES TOO!

IT IS ALL GOOD FOR THE WS TO DATE AND DATE AND DATE SOME MORE AND STAY AWAY FROM THE LOVING FAMILY THEY CAME FROM. THEY DID ENOUGH HARM AND HURT TO THE FAMILY AND THE FAMILY DID ENOUGH HARD TIME HAVING TO LIVE WITH THAT CHEATER SPOUSE.

LET THE PAIN FINALLY END!

2wrong doesn't make it right ...

I hope I can find a whole man.
Why are you "hoping" you can find a whole man?
Do you "need" one to be a whole peson?

Don't you think that it would be healthier to want a good relathinship with a good person as opposed to hoping you can find/have one?

That is an interesting thought. And in reality would take more time tothink and answer. Basically I want a great relationship with a whole man.

But what god puts in your path is not always what you want! After all I never thought I would ever date again. Now I look forward to it. I have not really dated yet.

I do not feel the desire to be wanted as myself as a bad thing. I am not a bad person.

I do not feel the desire to be wanted as myself as a bad thing.
I don't think it is either.
However, if you HAVE to have someone to be happy/whole, then there could be problems later.