[QUOTE]Originally posted by tigger4jdt:<p>
"I understand not wanting to hurt anyone involved, whether they currently know or not, but the longer you wait, the worse it is going to be. I suggest you look into Usedlongago's story, just to see what it can do to someone when you keep your "secret" so long! It doesn't have to take years to get your fog lifted! But, you have to be willing to lift it!"<p>I have lied to H for so long & had another relationship (I still see it as one as screwed up as it may have been) for over 6 years. How can I tell him that I had this A for that long? I guess my other life or double life as it has become is so emesshed with who am now that it is hard to think about exposing it after hiding it for so long. <p>"As for the child from this A, What is the deal with that? Does your H believe she(I think I saw that it was a girl) is his child? That is going to be a rough one when you do "come clean" with him. But, it can be worked through! In our case, the A was over before I found out that I was expecting! We also never told xOM about the pregnancy, and my H is and always will be Abbi's Daddy! We will tell all our children what happened, but when they are a little older. And, Abbi will be told as well."<p>Yes, I have a son with OM. He is 20 months old and the best thing that ever happened to me and my marriage. Of course the fact that he isn't my H biological child isn't the best thing but our babies presence in our lives is a gift beyond words) Our son is a big factor in bringing us back from the brink of divorce. He drew us together if that makes sense. My shortened story on my son is this:
when I became pregnant I basically handled it on my own in the first month or so. I look back and know it wasn't best for the adults but I still do believe it was right for my chld. I decided that since my H wanted a child and OM already had 2 of his own and mostly because the baby as I imagined it, wouldn't be truly accepted by OM family (they are very religious and he had been with his W since he was 15 so she had long history with them) that baby was better off being loved by 2 people and famlies who really want him and where he can live a normal life full of love. In my OM life, I could not be 1st because of nature of relationship and my heart broke just thinking that our child, if I allowed OM to acknowledge him, wouldn't have the kind of family or father that I wanted for him. He would not only be seen as a bi-product of an A, but would be grandchild number 13 and so his big family doesn't think that much about new babies being a big deal. So I told OM that I was pregnant but I explained I already told H that the baby was his and that we would raise him as our own. At the time, he said he believed in my decision because we had to put this child and his 2 children above everyone else. OM told me while we were talking about "someday ending it" that we never really could cut off eachother completely "if for nothing else, the baby". He does want to see him and hear about his life, etc. from a friend of the family perspective. That is what he said. If I tell H it will destroy him I believe. Then the door is open for OM to try and get some kind of custody. The only deterient he has right now is the secret is still intact. Most of all, I don't want my child having to live with my crazy life choices. I know I can't do that to him.
The more I listein here, telling H does seem fair and does seem, despite the risk of ruining M, to make sense in terms of allowing him to decide and then know what we're up against. Then I think about what he told me when "our" son was born, that it was the happiest day of his life. I don't think I can destroy that. I haven't made up my mind on it. Can't I tell him about A without the baby truth. He is in my eyes my sons only father. <p>"And, stop worrying so much about xOM and his M, that is now his problem to deal with, as you want to repair your own M."
I know I have to stop worrying but it is not easy to do. The sad truth is (2Long is facing some of this now) that even when A is over, the feelings of care and concern linger on. I do know you are right and the lack of contact will help these feelings die down. And like an addiction to anything else, the addicted person can't focus on tomorrow, next week, next month, a lifetime without OP. Rather, I focus on today, I won't see him or talk to him. It helps. My H is in 12 step program for alchoholism so I do understand some 12 step thinking. That is another big concern for me, mostly because of our son, what if he can't take all the emotional carnage and starts to drink again? Ironically, when he stopped drinking I started my A with OM. Neither H or son deserve that.<p>I hope this made some sense, and helps you in some way! If you want to know more about my situation, just let me know!<p>As I understand it, your situation is reverse mine. Your H knows baby is biolocially not his but your ex-om does not? Why did you not tell him and do you think you ever will?

Gemini2, The FOG is that which envelopes you in the midst of an affair. Just as it is when driving through a thick fog. You lose all sense of perception. You see things that aren't there and don't see the things that are there. The world on the outside of this fog is as it always was, but from the inside of this fog it seems that all has changed. Eventually(hopefully) this fog lifts and you once again see things as you had before, and as they always had been even while you were in this fog.

Doesn't the fog envelope those that are betreyed as well? I sure feel like I've lived thru a foggy period myself<p>
Peace

CM,<p>The reason xOM does not, and will never know(from us at least) is that he became VERY violent on D-day and assaulted my H, basically in front of our older D! He(xOM) even told me that the only thing keeping him from killing my H was OD looking out the front window! After that, he proceeded to basically stalk us! We have the police report from the assault, and I had also filed a harassment report! Now, and for the past 1 1/2 yrs, xOM has been almost half a world away! xOM does know where we live right now, but that will be changing very soon, and even though we will be moving closer to where xOM is, he will never know it. All the people around here, who may still have contact with him, are pretty much gone, and will never know were we are being transfered next.<p>Yes, our stories are a little bit different, but in the bare truth, they are so similar! I still feel that it is best to tell your H about your S. Why? Because if you tell him about this 6 yr A, but never come clean about your S, he will begin to suspect anyway! Then, you will have been continuing to lie to him after claiming to have come clean. That could actually be the nail in the coffin, although you may not see it that way. Your H will look at it as you still being dishonest, which he would be right. If you really think about it, if you tell him about the A, and he puts 2 and 2 together, and asks you straight out to get a DNA test to be certain your S is his, how will you respond? I truly believe in the total honesty they talk about on this board. I agree that when you come clean about your A, you need to become clean about everything. Not necessarily the gory details, but the major stuff, like the A itself, and this little boy that was a result of the A! Your H has every right to be told the truth all at once, not to have to wonder in his own mind if his S is truly his or not! Think how much more that will hurt him if you wait till he suspects after you've told him about just the A. There's no way to avoid the pain that you are going to cause. You will be hurting many people, but you can minimize the extent of that pain, instead of putting it off, tell all, all at the same time. <p>In a very real sense, if you don't tell your H about your S, you are taking away his right to choose to be his father! Like I said before, you may just be surprised. Yes, it may take a while to get over the pain of this betrayal, but your H can get past it, and will continue to love your S as his own child! For a very long time, I worried about that exact thing, would my H truly love Abbi. I know that he had a very hard time dealing with my pregnancy, and even the birth of Abbi! But, he now loves her as much as our other children, and she's his in every way that counts! A child, especailly at that age, doesn't care about blood or genetics, they care about love and acceptance! <p>But, it is ultimately your choice and decission. I'm just giving you my POV and the reasons behind our decissions. I also want to give you my welcome here. I know we started out rough, but, as Catnip stated, we tend to be a little protective here, especailly on this particular part of the forum. We've had many who were here to hurt, and in your first posts, you had seemed to be contradicting yourself. I have read where you explained your wording, and do believe you are here for help! I am glad you found this place, and hope you can remain here for as long as it takes to get you through this time in your life.<p>Tigger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tigger4jdt:
[QB]CM,
Thanks Tigger,for your advice and telling me more about your D and circumstances of OM & H as well as letting me know I'm welcome here. I know I sort of bonbarded my way in.
This is alot to deal with and this site and the words of the people who have given me advice have been ringing in my ears and happily, those thoughts have been replacing my obsessive thoughts of OM and being out of A. Now, I seem to have at last turned down the road of no return to save my M and my life.

CMiranda:<p>Good for you!!! Your story on this thread has been the most amazing turnaround I've seen (though I've only been here for about a month, I've read an AWFUL LOT in that time). <p>You very definitely have some rough roads ahead of you, much rougher than mine even, but you have the exact right attitude to make it all work. Keep posting, and get some good counseling!

Amazing thread people!
Pepper/lurking [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

CMiranda-I didn't have time to read all of your posts. However, I'm confused. Does your H know about the OM? Does he think this child is his and it's not? Are you still involved with OM?
My brain gets muddled trying to figure it out. Are you trying to save your marriage? Thanks for clarifying things.

CMiranda,<p>I thought I might offer you some perspective about what could happen if your H doesn't find out. This is one of the posted from UsedLongAgo. Just click on the highlighted part UsedLongAgo.<p>This is the down side of carrying the secret of your child with you and not sharing with your H.<p>I would also like to suggest that there are two things you need to know. <p>One, after a period of time (depending on your state) your H will be assumed to be the father and be financially responsible for your child. You very likely could not reverse it even if you and H divorce. This is the effect of the Assumed Parenthood laws that men live under.<p>The message: it would be best to tell H before that time arises.<p>Second, don't do a dna test if you really want H to be the father. If OM takes a DNA test and it can be matched to your child he can claim some level of custody and visitation, whether you or your H wants it. Of course he may be made to pay child support, but the issue of Assumed Parenthood may complicate this.<p>There is a poster, Bystander, who is really up on these laws and what they can do to a couple.<p>So be very careful if you want your H to be the Dad to this child. I believe it was Want It Back that pointed out that she would have preferred not to have OM in her life, but he is there.<p>I think you can see by what I have posted as well as what everyone else has posted that life is getting complicated for you. The hard part is that it will get more complicated if you DON'T do anything. Telling your H will be most painful, but it will eventually clear up many things for you, your child and your H. <p>It won't be easy if you do tell your H either.<p>This is tough stuff CM and there are a lot of lives already affected and one created by this situation. Think carefully, get some counseling if for no other reason to discuss how best to break this news to your H.<p>If you read ULA's thread you can see why it might be important to tell him with a counselor present. His whole world is about to be turned upside down. But, I think that ULA's post also shows that he can survive. There are many other men who have posted here in the past in your H's situation.<p>One, final point. I don't know if you know how to navigate around here. If you click on the sun glasses above someones post you will get some history if they have filled out the forms. However on the upper right side is a red line stating that one can see some of the most recent posts. Click that and you will get to see the recent posts. I would suggest that you do that with ULA's post. He hasn't posted much and you can see how it works.<p>If you decide you would like to read more from the H's or even women in your situation let me know I maybe able to direct you to some. I first started posting here because of a woman named "Facing Choices" you do a search for her posts on the archives files. She also was in your shoes and told her H when the child was about 10 months old. This board used to have only one location to post and all posted to that spot instead of being broken up as it is now.<p>In any event, please read ULA's post and listen carefully to the people posting to you: 2long, tigger, WIB, etc. I think you will find their advice sound.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

I agree that your H needs to know. This is much too big of a 'secret' to continue to carry. If he decides to leave, that's his choice. He sounds like a wonderful father so that's a good thing. I guess the OM's wife doesnt' know either? That is not fair.<p>You have said you are trying to protect the children. I give you credit for not having an abortion to doing what you think is right. But it doesn't feel right at all. There are a whole handful of people living lies right now. It reminds me a little of mmseekingadvice who refuses to 'hurt' his wife by telling her. My H also made that choice for me and believe me, IT MADE THINGS MUCH WORSE. I don't think you will find one professional who would encourage you to continue to lie. Have you had counseling? Things aren't going to change unless you do in my opinion. This is way too complicated for you and the OM to sort thru alone.<p>I am sorry for your pain. Please do the right thing

cm
I just thought I would give you something to think about. I was in a situation simialar to yours. My OM wanted to keep things a secret because his W and kids( grown) would be too angry, wife new D might be his, but they had been ignoring it. He was seeing child in secret since she was born. I got tired of it and said he had to come forward or back away forever, because this will hurt. D. HE came forward and told family, some are angry, some are very proud he was a man and owned up to his responsibility. And as much as W and I dont like each other, we work very hard to do what is right for D. Things have worked out for the best in most areas. My husband loves daughter with all his heart and is there for her no matter what. He did not leave as I thought and he thought. He treats her with the same love he does all the children. I am releived and grateful I dont have to hide any more.

2Long,<p>"The question then comes back to, Why have an A to run away from problems within your M? The answer, of course is: nobody expects the hurt to be this bad when they start, and once they start, it gets harder to stop with time."
Absolutely right. In my case and I suspect in many other WS, sometime after A starts (and it is not well devised plan in the beginning, for myself and OM, we had never been in this kind of R before so it played out as it happened, we had no idea what would come of it or how much pain we'd be setting ourselves up for. I was so idealistic back then and naive) I fell hopelessly in love with OM and there was a window of time where I was feeling strongly about telling H and ending M. However, once that window closes in part from the progression of clandestine relationship and all of the problems (aka reality) that it encompasses and has to deal with, the fear sets in that spouse could find out and then A would have to end and WS wants A to continue but now isn't so convinced M has to end. And so the protection of Spouse, OP, A, and self kicks in and away you go. The "voids" that are filled in WS life by having the A and M both make us "happy" even if it is only temporary. That is why OM and I continue for over 6 years.<p>"I didn't call or write OM. Most people don't. I have no desire to see or hear from him. But if my W doesn't get off the fence in a reasonable amount of time and tell him to back off, I sure will. Also, if we end up DV, I will contact him and his W. He should not be rewarded with an opportunity to resume the A with my W, just because she's "free" and he's not."<p>This is what I'm afraid of. You are an unknown threat to his M and could blow it apart with a phone call. I know you won't like how this sounds but I do still care for OM and it doesn't seem right (I know I am protecting him) that I tell H and open up this threat and not tell OM that it exists. I told OM when we parted that I hoped for him what I was seeking for myself, a happy life, where the voids we filled for eachother can be found in our M. I meant those words and I do want him to be happy. If I do this in the way suggested here, I feel I'd be turning on him. I know my A was me turning on my M but still, my H hurt me alot in our M before I had A and OM never intentionally hurt me. <p>"I don't think it's reasonable for us BS's to expect the WS not to care about the OP anymore. That's being demanding. But that's also one of the very reasons for no contact."
I admire your strength. I do see why you stress no contact and believe that it is a major problem in your W's situation. She is in denial I think over OM and giving up her friendship with him. I don't agree with her but I definetely understand how she is stuck.<p>"You won't be able to avoid telling your H forever. Well, you might, but think how miserale you'll be the rest of your life for not being honest with him. And how vulnerable you will continue to be to having another A. Don't presume to know what your H will or will not understand. I actually think I understand my W's predicament a helluva lot better than she does. Mainly due to C'ing and this website. I'm certainly not in a fog now (though I was in one of my own early on, before I realized that *I* am a good person and will survive whatever the outcome of all this)."<p>Hearing you and other BS explain how you've stuck with your M's make me see that I should not be closed to telling H. I see that it could prevent future A or more likely, getting back together with OM. I don't forsee my H coming to this site for help. He is very much the silent type which worries me. <p>"But you have, in your own way, by telling me your perspective on your story, which is similar to my W's. This has enabled me to understand a bit more of what's going on in her mind when she won't/can't come out and tell me in her own words."<p>I'm happy that I could offer some perspective. Don't be too hard on your W, I open up here but I don't think I'd ever be so honest with my feelings with my H. Not to be deceitful, but some of this would be cruel to expose to him or I just can't tell him because he is too close to me to want to hear about my feelings toward OM even if we are out of A.<p>"Just Learning gave me some advice about this regarding my W's insistence on the continued friendship. He said to tell her that it would be "okay" with me, if all the truth were revealed to both families and we could all agree that the friendship (which would involve them getting together while on business out of town and away from either family) would be completely harmless to our families and our M's. I'm sure he realized, even as he said that, that the whole concept is prepostrous."<p>That is an interesting perspective. I am pretty sure that if we exposed our A to our spouses that our "plan" I told you of earlier would be ridiculous to even think about implementing. I couldn't show my face at a barbeque at OM house after his W found out. Likewise, I don't see OM and family coming to our summer picnic if my H is told. It would be an event that the police would have to come to I suspect. It seems ridiculous to even write about it! Of course we never intended to tell spouses. OM would think I was a complete maniac if I devulged to him that I was contemplating it. If I hadn't come to this site and read the BS perspective, I would have concurred with him. It does sound like a stupid idea if you don't know that it can help save M in long run.

CMiranda:<p>"You are an unknown threat to his M and could blow it apart with a phone call. I know you won't like how this sounds but I do still care for OM and it doesn't seem right (I know I am protecting him) that I tell H and open up this threat and not tell OM that it exists."<p>Something like this appears to be going through my W's mind right now, too. I sometimes wonder if they made some sort of "pact" not to talk about each other to their families, and she's worried OM will be angry with her for telling me. Actually, she WAS worried that OM would be angry that I found their emails, that she was that careless. I have no respect for that kind of thinking, form him or her. I don't think she cares that much for OMW, but I think that it's probably common for people in A's to dehumanize the OP's S to some degree. She's mostly worried that OM will hate her for "letting me" find out. In a way, that might actually help me get no contact from him, though. But even then, I prefer complete honesty. He'll have a lot of work to do on his own M. That will be his problem, but I'd prefer he face it than go out and have an A with someone else's W, or even to keep trying to have one with my W.<p>" If I do this in the way suggested here, I feel I'd be turning on him. I know my A was me turning on my M but still, my H hurt me alot in our M before I had A and OM never intentionally hurt me. "<p>My W thinks I was the bulk of the problem with our M, perhaps similar to yours (though I am not an alchoholic). That's simply not true, and I've recognized more and more that it was partly rationalization to support her A. OM would, in all probability, eventually "intentionally hurt you" if you lived with him all the time. We all end up doing that, or perceivign that we're doing that, eventually, unless we remain vigilant in keeping our M alive.<p>"Hearing you and other BS explain how you've stuck with your M's make me see that I should not be closed to telling H. I see that it could prevent future A or more likely, getting back together with OM. I don't forsee my H coming to this site for help. He is very much the silent type which worries me."<p>So was I!!! But here I am. I love my W very much, but I will admit that my patience won't last forever, nor should it.<p>"I'm happy that I could offer some perspective. Don't be too hard on your W, I open up here but I don't think I'd ever be so honest with my feelings with my H. Not to be deceitful, but some of this would be cruel to expose to him or I just can't tell him because he is too close to me to want to hear about my feelings toward OM even if we are out of A."<p>Again, I thank you for the perspective on your situation.<p>Oops. Got to run. I'll look at the rest of your message later.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong>cm
I just thought I would give you something to think about. I was in a situation simialar to yours. My OM wanted to keep things a secret because his W and kids( grown) would be too angry, wife new D might be his, but they had been ignoring it. He was seeing child in secret since she was born. I got tired of it and said he had to come forward or back away forever, because this will hurt. D. HE came forward and told family, some are angry, some are very proud he was a man and owned up to his responsibility. And as much as W and I dont like each other, we work very hard to do what is right for D. Things have worked out for the best in most areas. My husband loves daughter with all his heart and is there for her no matter what. He did not leave as I thought and he thought. He treats her with the same love he does all the children. I am releived and grateful I dont have to hide any more.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Your story is inspiring. Can I be so bold as to ask if I understand a post you made previously. Did both you and H have A's? The reason I am asking is that my H as far as I know, hasn't. If what I believe is true, then question his ability to be as "reasonable" as yours has or even as I imagine I would react having been through one. It just seems to offer a different perspective to the reality of an A, both the good and the bad.
Also, how old was your D when the OM owned up to his responsibility? D must know that she was conceived of an A? If she is old enough to comprehend it's implications, how does she feel about herself?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by maggierose:
<strong>CMiranda-I didn't have time to read all of your posts. However, I'm confused. Does your H know about the OM? Does he think this child is his and it's not? Are you still involved with OM?
My brain gets muddled trying to figure it out. Are you trying to save your marriage? Thanks for clarifying things.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
No, H does not know about or suspect OM. (at least I don't think so) He thinks our son is his biological child. Well, emotionally, I would have to be honest and say yes, I am still involved with OM but I'm working on changing that. Our A ended in my eyes about month ago but I've been on 1 business dinner with him (but I no longer work with him. Our company consolidated after 9/11, and everyone is to loose their jobs, so I left the company on my own. I met him with other business collegues to wish me farewell) We did see eachother one other time and a few phone calls. Now that I came here I'm learning of another way and have a new perspective on the friendship plan.
Yes, I want to save my M. Up until last week I truly believed I'd save M and work on relationship with my H as well as keep my beloved OM in my life as my friend. OM and I had devised a plan to remain friends and eventually incorporate our spouses into our "real friendship" that we'd create.
That is basically the story. Oh, I haven't yet mentioned anything to OM about possibly telling my H about A. He doesn't think much of this site and thinks I should not listein to any advice about cutting all ties, etc.

cm,
I have been married close to 20 years, my husband has had as many affairs and I SPENT ALL MY TIME TRYING TO BE BETTER, IF I COULD JUST BE PRETTIER OR NICER OR MORE TOLERANT, after he HAD about as many affairs as years we were married, I grew tired and dint want to try any more.
I met someone at work, he new we were having trouble and just seemed to step in and make life so much better, husband and i were seperated at the time. this OM became my best friend we did everything together including dinner with each other spouses, ugh well I got pregnant, and I thought it was husbands, ( IT WASNT) told other man the day i found out she was not my husbands. he told me to get an abortion, I said NO, he told me to put up baby for adotion, because i was ruining our lives together, i said NO. He and I parted ways he told his wife and told me good bye, He wanted nothing to do with baby, I said , your loss and good bye as well. when baby was born I let him know and he wanted to see her, so He started seeing her, every week, till I told him , he had to come forward or walk away and let D have my husband for dad, He refused to walk away so he came forward, has been difficult, daughter now knows him as daddy, but she also knows my husband as this, she loves them both and is too little too understand the difference. she is not 2 yet. Things are still tense at times, but we work very hard at this all, I couldnt say if what we handled this the right way, but I know my daughter has more people to love her, and aside from a few problems, it is going well. and I have had each person involved tell me they are grateful I didnt listen and abort. OM and husband hate each other that is biggest problem.

d was 13 months when he came forward

CMiranda:<p>"Don't be too hard on your W, I open up here but I don't think I'd ever be so honest with my feelings with my H. Not to be deceitful, but some of this would be cruel to expose to him or I just can't tell him because he is too close to me to want to hear about my feelings toward OM even if we are out of A."<p>Once again, this is a choice of cruelties. I think that the honesty will be appreciated by him more than the attempts to "protect" him by continuing to lie to him. And yes, not telling him something this important is a lie of omission.<p>"I am pretty sure that if we exposed our A to our spouses that our "plan" I told you of earlier would be ridiculous to even think about implementing. I couldn't show my face at a barbeque at OM house after his W found out. Likewise, I don't see OM and family coming to our summer picnic if my H is told. It would be an event that the police would have to come to I suspect. It seems ridiculous to even write about it!"<p>Yep. This kind of vision can only come when you see gaps in the fog.<p>"Of course we never intended to tell spouses."<p>Can't maintain the lie and do that.<p>"OM would think I was a complete maniac if I devulged to him that I was contemplating it."<p>I think this is more an indication of his own fears and insecurities. It's cruel of him to expect you NOT to seek help for yourself, as a result of this insecurity. <p>"If I hadn't come to this site and read the BS perspective, I would have concurred with him. It does sound like a stupid idea if you don't know that it can help save M in long run. "<p>It also sounds like a stupid idea if you have no DESIRE to save the M in the long run, or if you actually believe that the A can continue indefinitely without affecting the M.

CMiranda:<p>Sorry about that first quote from you. I misread it somehow. In fact, though I have told my W that I post here, I haven't shown her my posts (yet) because I'm in the position that I need her to decide our M on her own, as I've already decided by my reaction to D-day. And she still doesn't put much stock in this site or C'ling in general.

CMiranda,
What you and OM is doing is called "triangulation": making a triangle. So long as you have a relationship to each other, giving thought and energy to each other, that is the very energy and commitment drained away from your marriages. You don't have to FULLY commit yourself to your marriages, because you've got this OtherPerson hanging on the sidelines. You and OM are afraid to cut those ties and see if you can really make your marriages work. It isn't healthy.<p>Prayers,
J