Hi kate

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've gone through soooo very much in 5 short years of marriage. Why do you stay? It seems that you and H were seperated when you were married less than 1 year. Do you think that there is real hope for a meaningful drama free relationship considering that this one began sooo dramatically?

I just wonder because often on this board I read about wifes who put up with FAR more degrating situations than I EVER did as an OW.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Believe it or not I ask the same question over and over I ask myself why?

First I wanted to be sure I did everything possible to save my marriage.

I was so full of rage, when H and I had the opportunity my anger wouldn't allow me to forgive then I saw, no matter what I try he hasn't changed I've made attemps and still continue to deal with me.

I know I will not go through another year with this. I know this year I will make a dramatic decision because this situation is not healthy for me.

Now for the other BS here they have time invested and they have children to consider and how there over all situation affects there children and them selves as a whole.

Some of these women here, have been married before you were born it's hard to just walk away from a situation like that they really love there H.

You say you haven't gone through much being the OW as they have being the wife. Thats it because you were the OW You don't know him as if wife do.

Wife knows every fiber and flaw in this man sole
even though he lies to wife. Wife wants to believe her husband she knows deep down in her spirit something is wrong.

Mainly it's quilt that cause a WS to treat his wife in a way he doesn't treat you. He has no reason to be quilty with you on the other hand he literally destroyed his family and is faced, with the looks on his children face. You and WS are basicly feeling the same pain. He doesn't owe you anything.

You helps him to escape from his self, his wife is a reminder of who he really is especially if he's trying to run from self denial. he can't be in denial around wife.

See Katie A isn't really about how bad the wife treats the H as they tell so many OW in some cases yes it's about emotional need in a lot of cases it not. It's about MM inadeguacies, his low self worth, something he brought into the marriage which has nothing to do with wife, his child hood baggage issues meaning it's you.

He looks for a scapegoat, to lash out at someone he loves because he knows she love him and will tolerate this because wife loves him unconditionally and for the sake of family ,so he runs to you for an escape. What he runs from, he runs into still his low self worth.Escape from self.

No what I went through it's not worth it at all.
I'm doing everything I can so when it's finally over, I'll be able to sleep at night without demons of guilt riding my back, did you do everything possible to save what is left of a marriage. I'll be able to say yes but when it's finally over for me it's over.
I hope I didn't offend anyone this is not my intentions.

Oh by the way 1/16/ 03 OC birthday was a serious trigger for me. The day before I couldn't understand what was going on with me until the next day I asked what date is this I was told the 16 and boy did I feel it.

But I have good days also I laugh with my co-workers I've leaned not to worry about what people say.

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: MALC ]</small>

dawn,,,, fh was very much aware of the pain her mother caused herself and the unrest it caused her ex husband. they divorced and lived unhappily for about 20 years until her mother passed away. even though her dad had remarried but you could always feel the tension in the air. her mom never remarried and livd lonely until she died.

i don't know if fh even thought of the pain involved just the inconvience at holiday and special occassion times.

i would like to add one more thing. that i do believe people can learn from the mistakes of other before them. but only if they can realize their own vulnerability to the problem.

bintheredunthat

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It IS disgusting. What I did was disgusting. But I turned a corner. I changed. My changes didn't stop the consequences that were already in motion because of poor choices, but nevertheless there was a change of heart </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">beautiful post ....screams of integrity regained.

Paul said it best I think.... Romans 12:1-2

"Therefore, I urge you brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind . Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will."

wow what a passage. fits perfect here.

If your actions speak to a true "renewal of your mind" after you have repented, then you have become a living sacrifice and have true peace in that knowledge. you can shout for joy in the shelter of His wings!!!

peace
tim

Thanks for your answer MALC-

I wasn't trying to be mean or cause you pain or anything it's just that your signature struck me (as many here do). I can understand why a wife of 20+ years stays and at least trys to work it out. It's some of the shorter marriages that give me pause.

For me, part of it is that I read OP asked over and over "where is your self respect?" Then I see W's go through situations that seem so horrible yet they get pats on the back for staying. I know that EMR's and M's are not the same. But at the end of the day self love is self love.

I high tailed it out of my EMA (as hard as it was) becasue I had grown in my level of love for self. It truely breaks me heart to read some of the stories here. I guess i'm lucky in that I didn't have to go through a big legal proceeding to leave my 10 year relationship. But that's 1/3 of my life spent with this man. We tried again and again to work it out in a way that would be good for everyone (then later just good for me). Some times it worked great. Other times not.

In the end I didn't leave becuase I didn't love him. In fact I loved him VERY much, I just loved me more.

God bless you MALC and God bless all BS's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
[QB]"where is your self respect?" Then I see W's go through situations that seem so horrible yet they get pats on the back for staying. I know that EMR's and M's are not the same.

=^^= I struggled so with this question in the beginning right after D-day. I went down to visit my Mom and told her what a fool I felt like for even considering staying in the marriage after all he had done. I mean, an affair is devastating enough, but an OC???? I said, "I feel so weak. I bet everyone thinks I look weak". She looked at me so started and said, "oh, no, Honey. You aren't weak to stay. Leaving is the easy way out. You're the strong one. It takes amazing strength to stay and try to recover from this."

I guess I felt like you did in the beginning, thinking my staying was a dependency or a weakness when in reality it was my own self love and my love for my history, my investment, my feelings for my husband and my heart and the strength within that allowed me to stay rather than take the easy road. I also know there are friends who know of this who probably feel as you do and think I am a puss for working the recovery because they themselves beleive they would have bailed.

To be completely honest, I believe each of us have to weigh the "worthiness" of the marriage and determine whether or not it is worth it to fight the good fight or retreat from the battle. In my case, his affair did not last long, my husband was crazy about me before the fling and we had developed such a rich and intricate life together that I would miss it and him the rest of my life if I abandoned the marriage. I just couldn't stand the thought of not sharing every moment to come with him.

But at the end of the day self love is self love.

=^^= Exactly. My self love made me stay because fixing what was broken was better for me than starting over without him. My reward has been a marriage that is so elevated over the one we had, (which was wonderful and the main reason I stayed) I didn't think it could ever get better than what we had but it is...far better than I could ever imagine. While I wish we could have come to this point in our lives without the drama of four years ago, and I still have occasional heartburn over the situation primarily because I can't stand the thought of him sharing such and intimate part of himself with some one else, (I am vain I suppose) he has become even more devoted and more committed to me and to the marriage. He appreciates me and loves me more than before which I thought was impossible, but it is true. As a result, I have even more respect for him than before because he was strong enough to stay and fix things when it would have been easier to go to her or to leave me. I trust him more than before because he isn't the slightest bit interested in anyone but me where before he would occasionally scope out "talent". I guess what happened to him and to the marriage was so horrible with such disasterous consequences, he reacts to other women a little like he's had aversion therapy.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ January 22, 2003, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

Hey there Cat (my fellow Katie),

I don't necessarily thing women who stay are being puss's. I'm just trying to understand. Having read your story it actually makes some since to me that you stayed.

I was really asking about the shorter relationships.

My best friend married a guy in Jan of 2002 (justice of the peace). Then married him again (big formal wedding) in March 2002. I was the maid of honor in the second wedding.

Her first wedding night she spent on the phone crying to me. The night of the second wedding she ran to my hotel room (right next to hers) crying saying that she wanted to stay with me.

It's nearly a year later, she's pregnant with his child and everyday that i'll listen to it I hear about how terrible things are, but how she's fighting for her marriage.

I read on here about d-day #1 and I think "how sad", then comes d-day #2,3,4,5,6 and i'm just thinking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> "what?"

I'm not trying to judge i'm just trying to understand. Espically for folks in short marriages.

I wonder is it somthing to do with marriage? It is those individual people? It is the stress of making such a bond? I just don't get it.

You know what, the more I think about it and probably the whole reason that I stay on this site is that I wonder.

I wonder about marriage, coupling and intimate relationships as a whole. There are so astonishingly few people that I know who are happily coupled. I am happily coupled, and it makes me wonder if i'm missing something.

My friend Richard tells me that there is no other shoe. That I should sit back and enjoy what we have. It's so vanilla and boring (THANK GOD!).

Maybe this is the WAY WRONG place to come with my questions about happy peaceful relationships. I just don't know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Katie Scarlett:
<strong>...
Maybe this is the WAY WRONG place to come with my questions about happy peaceful relationships. I just don't know.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No-no, I don't think that at all because at one time or another, I believe, ALL the relationships represented here absolutely did experience happy and peaceful times, or else none of these good people would have committed their lives to their WS's in the first place.

This is a place to help us figure out how to get back to those peaceful times, only I'm not sure if there IS any going back, it's a whole new path we are on. The path is recovery and how to stay there (in recovery) and not revert backward due to triggers, which we all have--BS, WS and OPs... You know, how to recover and then affair-proof our marriages.

The BS didn't marry a WS, they married on grounds of mutual commitment. I hope! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> The A is something that evolved for individual reasons, and an OP had a role in hurting the marriage just as the WS and the BS. Each person needs to take responsibility for their role--and that's a quote directly out of Dr.Harley's "Surviving An Affair."

p.s.Thanks tuff-hubby <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know that's not your name, but it should be... (meaning tuff in a strong way--strong in the Lord kind of way... Prayers & well-wishes to ya...)

<small>[ January 22, 2003, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

You know btdt,

I read here and I see so many people still in the "pain" phase I have to ask myself why i'm here.

No offense to those who are, but if you're not wrecked with pain, vengence or whatever else, the pickings are pretty slim on this site.

I think this site serves it's purpose and God bless it for that, but it gets to be a major downer after a while. ANd I read all different threads.

If I were in a lot of pain this is the #1 place to show up. But what of those who have working relationships? Is there another "happily coupled" site somewhere?

Maybe if things are going well there's nothing to discuss. I love my job. There's not much to say about it. It's fine. Now if I hated my job i'm sure there'd be 50 places on line for me to go. Know what I mean?

katie,

i don't want to offend, but how DID you become involved on this board? from what i read, you are not a ws, bs or ow w/ oc. am i missing something? maybe i'm out of line for asking , but i've been seeing a lot of people lately who don't seem to have any reason to post advice or opinions here doing exactly that. i hope i don't upset anyone by being so outspoken.

Steph,
It's fine that you asked. I was the ow in a 10 year affair.

Katie.

I understand and even wonder the same things you do. I too wonder why a woman would fight for a marriage that endured such a horrendous trauma of and A and an OC so early in a new marriage of a year, or two or even five. Especially if she is really young.

When I was married to my first husband, he had a shelf life of 4 years when I found out he was a snake and put him out with the trash. There was no OC but I certainly wasn't going to stay with a man who would betray me just out of the gate...there wasn't much to look forward to, I hadn't a lot of history with him yet, I was young and had lots of options and a whole life ahead of me. I didn't want to spend it with someone who clearly was not devoted to me.

So, like you, it baffles me why someone would stay in a fairly new marriage if there wasn't this intense love to see them through the joy and hardships. I'm not talking "fatal attraction" kind of love, I'm talking the depth of the "til death do you part" kind of love. I admit my first marriage was based on lust, excitement and all the trappings that "felt" like love but was just immaturity, feelings never before experienced and drama.

The reason old timers come here over and over again after swearing off this place years later is because they owe something...to give back what healing they have received, to give hope to newcomers suffering that a marriage can not only survive, but thrive and take on a whole new meaning as never before.

I'm glad things are a little "vanilla" for you right now because I bet life for you has been "rocky road" for far too long. We all need peace in our lives at times to give us balance and strength to endure life's surprises, unpleasant and otherwise. Rocky road is over rated anyway. I know if all you seem to be getting is vanilla, your cravings for the other is normal, but it will eventually make you sick if you have too much. To liven up the vanilla, add hot sauces, whipped cream and go nuts.

Katie Catnip =^^=

Thanks for your wise words Catnip! You're a doll.

We're vanilla right now and i'm THRILLED!!!!

I've lived enough drama to last me 3 lifetimes!