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#823434 10/22/03 09:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 413
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ps. I meant no contact between either of you with OM. I didn't mean no contact with Grace, and OM and his wife. I meant have a neutral party involved for visitation, only until your marriage is better repaired.

This is only a suggestion.

ember

#823435 10/25/03 12:56 AM
Joined: Aug 1999
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Pops,

How about you deciding to give 100%? In fact how about you and FH giving 100%? The problem with comparing effort is that it is comparing Apples and oranges, and no outside person can really judge who is giving and getting what.

The solution, as I see it is, to use an old football term, to "sell out." It is the hardest thing as a coach to get kids to do, because the sense of self preservation and trust. To "sell out" is to simply give all you got until you drop (top level runners do it). It doesn't matter if you are first, last or in between.

Now the other hard part about "selling out" is that you may not finish the race or the game, and the kids have to develop a trust in the coaches that it won't be held against them if they do go all the way, and fail. Now you know since you coach kids, that if you have one that gives it all they have, no matter what happens, you are going to keep going to that kid whenever you can, because in your eyes he didn't fail. He did what others would not do. But he/she may or may not trust that you see the effort. The need to develop a trust to believe that you will see it. Yet, really whether they trust you or not, they need to do it, if they want to get better.

So what does this have to do with you? Pops if you want the marriage to work YOU are going to have to "sell out". Put it all on the table and give 100%. If FH cannot respond and make the marriage something YOU want to be in following your efforts, then I guess you will have your answers. But the process of "selling out" is not predicated on FH or her behavior. She can only control how long you can keep doing it. If she doesn't respond and in turn repond to you, then you will run out of gas and it will be over. If she does, then you won't and your marriage will be better and more satisfying for each of you.

If FH were here I would be telling her the same thing. I firmly believe that marriage is a 100/100 thing, but the only person that can determine if you are giving 100% is you. If it is enough the marriage makes it, if it is not then the marriage does not.

Pops, I don't know what kind of a woman FH really is. I don't know what kind of a human being she is. I don't know her strengths and weakness.

What I do know is that you thought enough of her to marry her and then have a bunch of kids with her, so she must be something special. I realize that you are questioning the specialness, since she made her decision to have the A, but it is still there or I doubt that you would still be there. Yes, I know the presence of the children in your life influenced your decision, but there is still something there isn't there?

I have been thinking a bit more about you two and some of my advice particularly to FH. I don't know if she reads this or will read this, but let me try and put a different slant on things and perhaps a bit of philosophy (sorry). I recall when I got married I got the lecture from the minister, that when W and I married we would become one. To put it into MB language, we would cease to act independently, and we would rely on our spouse to meet our needs, POJA is the classic of NOT acting independently.

So, no matter who or what went on in your marriage, the A was FH acting independently from you. She made independent decisions about the marriage, what she thought you felt, how you felt, how she felt, what she wanted, and what would make her happy. In affect, she took the LEADERSHIP role in your family and she led herself off into the A. These independent decisions fractured the "ONENESS" if there is such a term of the marriage.

I am guessing that you are feeling that since she took the leadership role to do things independently of you, she needs to take the leadership in putting back the marriage into a state of oneness. But, she isn't leading, she is not taking the initiative, she is hiding, and she is not trying to put things back together. Is that what you feel??

If it is, perhaps it is time to reevaluate your roles and what each of you expect. I don't mean who wins the arguements, who starts them, or anything like that. I mean who is going to set the goals for this marriage, articulate them to their spouse, and then pick up the spouse and carry them??

I am thinking you are going to have to do that Pops. I am thinking you are going to have to carry this until you drop or until FH puts her legs on the ground and starts to help you. You will have to "sell out" to do this and hopefully FH will start to pick up the slack before you run out of gas.

I realize this is about both of you, but only you can decide to "sell out" to make this work and if you do then FH must decide if she is going to "sell out" to help you.

So what am I saying? I am saying that your focus should be on you and not on what FH does or doesn't do. If she doesn't do what is needed you will run out of gas, and things will be over. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I do hope she quits defending abandoned forts, but if she doesn't then your decisions will be made for you. You won't go on, you will have given all you have and sold out.

I don't know if I have gotten close enough to be right about your situation, but I do hope that something I have said will persuade you to think long an hard about giving 100%.

God Bless,

JL

#823436 10/24/03 06:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,094
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jl,,, i wanted to respond to many of the questions you asked in the previous posts but time and my unbelievably slow typing did not allow it. so i will try with this last post. hopefully it will clear up many questions from all.

first is the question of do i love her. a pesounding YES. you are right at first there were many different reasons why i stayed in the marriage. the kids, financial, insecurety, fear just to name a few. but the bottom line is that although we still have some bumps to smooth out i would rather be married to fh then not. i can't imagine life without her next to me at night.

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she isn't leading, she is not taking the initiative, she is hiding, and she is not trying
to put things back together.
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yes this is how i feel. i try to imagine myself in her shoes. i see me breaking my back to make up for the damage i did. i do not however see fh doing the same. not that she is not doin anything as she is trying but she seems to be trying to do things to get herself back. and since i fel she is in some state of depession it is very hard on her.

i have been waiting for her to get it together and it has not been productive. i was just thinking about this today. i was thinking that i will have to get myself started toward being the h that i was prior to the A. back to doing all the little stuff flowers, back rubs, love notes, etc..

the fear i have with this is that i felt that it went unnoticed for many tears prior to her A. therefore my fears are that i don't have much patience if she stays the course as before. i will assume that she doesn't care.

as far as i am concerned i have moved past the A part. probably 90/10%. there are still some unpleasant movies that rerun through my head every so often but not much. seeing theom when he picks up grace or drops her off doesn't bother me. i am so concerned with making that an easy transition for grace that i don't pay much attention to him. when he drops her off the smile on her face is all that i see.

the main topic of this thread was just to see if i was in fact being to sensative. i didn't think so but just wanted to ask. then when fh replied her response set me off so we began our spat here.

will write later as i am off to soccer again, pops

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