=^^= Well, that's good! It is much better if we can play nice. I don't know if it is ever possible for either side to call a truce of any kind but that's not really all that important. What is important is that both boards can say whatever they want without people from the other side mouthing off a lot of nonsense on the other's site. This goes BOTH ways.

=^^= As Bee and Myst and Chud and Jil and all the others on TOW who constantly and unceremoniously demanding BS to "get the F off their board" saying "this board is NOT for BS...go to MB, the "cult" and stay off our site with all the other Christians."

JM: Then how about going back and removing the names off of your post. That's not fair and you know it, and it will just open up a whole new can of worms. Being a mod on C&A over there, a LOT is tolerated - because I think that sometimes ALL sides need to be heard. Yes, if someone comes over and starts being rude and nasty, they get "poofed".. just like they would HERE. A lot of times you don't GET to see the posts that elicit those types of responses because myself or the other mod are usually right on top of it.
We don't have a *private* board like you do. Just about everything we say is out there for the world to see, comment on, ridicule, "spew" upon, or just read. If everyone could respect each other and realize that each situation is unique - then maybe we could all get along in some twisted sort of way.

And just for the record? I think leaving $1 in the will is like having the last laugh, and pretty nasty to do to a kid. Imagine if all you knew about your parent was that they hated you so much that they'd leave you $1 in their will? Leave $150, something.

I've stayed away from here because the "oldies" that I liked and respected are pretty much gone. I completely agree that everyone should protect themselves AND their children, but doing it in an underhanded way is just wrong and it reflects on what kind of person YOU (not directed at anyone in particular - it's just a general "YOU") are.

catnip,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so f'g nice tio see that you have f'g returned to our little f'g group. i oft times wondered how you were doing with your f'g education and new f'g vocation. now i will ask you "what the f is that?" must be the f'g kind of lanquage you pick up from our f'g educational system. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

i have not done much lurking or posting as the schedule around our house and the kids using the computer for homework and God knows what else doesn't leave me much time.

i started reading this thread to better inform myself about a conversation i was having with kt on the other site.

my posts here were in regards to a post from lynn where she replied to nycmedic on page 2 of this thread where she said: ........

What has me angy that you are here, even mentioning what is best for oc, an then talking about YOUR pain. KT is a good person. Kinder then I am. And let me tell you, when you come on here with your passive agressive bull****, it makes me mad. SHE is a good woman. A woman who has done far more for the oc then many in this situation. So don't lecture her about what is good for oc...........

i read nyc's post and didn't find it insulting or lectureing at all. mearly offering an opinion in a polite manor. and in response she recieved a post from lynn who in her own words staes that "what has me angry" and "it makes me mad".
you are an excellent writer and often use words that i need to look up in the dictionary. but go ahead and choose your adjective. angry, mad bitter, hateful whatever. they all fall into the same category to me, just a nail poundin, ex pot smokin, long haired 60's hs grad.

now from my limited experience in life when someone is speaking out of and or because they are mad they tend to be insulting and it comes off as bitter. i feel their are ways to debate an issue without the arguementive attitude.

i AGREE with many of the things that lynn has offered for advice. bs's whether male or female don't have and can't afford to sit around feeling sorry for themselves. they need to get their heads up and start to protect their families and interests.

but what does ruffle my feathers (and has also been noted by some much wiser men then myself such as K and JL) is her delivery.

now on to my being thin skinned? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> that my dear is a good one. the answer to that is hardly. i have been beat on, chewed out and belittled by professionals. nothing here even comes close. i in no way see any of lynn's tirades as personal attacks on grace or my family. i mearly use examples from my life with grace and (if you haven't noticed) many times my oldest son to illustrate points i am trying to make. i am trying to give a visual so to speak as i feel sometimes i write in circles.

to many it may seem that i have forgiven and moved past all the distain for om. well like many bs w's here. if i were standing on the edge of the earth gazing out into the vastness of the universe with om standing next to me. i would probably say something like "dude can you believe what an incredible site we are priviledged to cast our eyes upon". and with that i would give him a firm pat on the back hard enough to knock him over the edge and i would dazzle as i watched the magnificant sight of him falling into an endless void of space. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

point being that bw's don't have the royalties on detesting the f'g op. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

i know what this site was started for, bs's to vent and seek out others dealing with the same issue. but it has evolved to more and that is why i guess the private site was started, to give them a place to do the same without intervention from the other side. personally i don't mind ANYONE dealing with this issue coming here as long as we are all polite toward one another.

Leaving the oc $1.00 in the will secures the estate for our children. PERIOD. The oc is not my problem. It is not done to laugh at or as a game. It is done pure and simple to keep the oc from suing. PERIOD. It is a legal move. And, as a legal move is another piece of the hurt and mess created by oc mom and dad.

Good lord, the ow and the oc parents just proved themselves again, all they care about is oc and are worried about money, again.

The oc is entitled to support. True. That is it. OUR assets are jointly owned, and last I looked, oc is not part of my marriage. So it is none of oc business or ow business what financial decisions we make. If you see it as a slap in the face of the oc, what were you expecting?

I HAVE ALWAYS STATED TO GET LEGAL ADVICE AND TO BE OPEN AND HONEST WITH YOUR LAYWER. OW AND THEIR SUPPORTERS PROVE AGAIN THEY DON'T WANT EMPOWERED BW PROTECTING THEIR FAMILIES AND ASSETS.

An ow talking about morals???? What a joke that is. If morals were there in the first place, there would be no oc, and no discussion.

And YES, it is possible to forgive a husband, and protect my family and our way of life. The ow/oc needs and wants are not a concern of mine. If they are upset about decisions that we make, thats to bad for them. It's none of their business as to what we decide. Why would decisions be made with them in mind?

OW need to get over themselves. Go to your own boards and whine about how evil and mean and twisted the BW are. But here, I will keep on telling the BS how urgent it is to be proactive and protect your assets.

I do not laugh at OC at all. I would assume any person with a brain would figure out pretty quickly why they are not inheriting from a family he is not part of. Are the ow going to be leaving my children money? Doubt it. My children would not expect it either. Nor do they expect Joe Blow down the block to leave them anything. The oc, is not raised as a member of our family, and therefore will not be treated as such.

GET OVER YOURSELVES. Your child gets to get hurt and confused, just like our children. And this is 50% your fault. Not 100% married mans' fault.

[QUOTE] OW need to get over themselves. Go to your own boards and whine about how evil and mean and twisted the BW are. But here, I will keep on telling the BS how urgent it is to be proactive and protect your assets. [QUOTE]

Amen Lynn! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I totally agree with you & even though my situation does not warrant a lawyer & protecting BC I thank you for being to help those who need it. Notice I used the word "help", not counselor, enforcer or any other word that says you know all & spew evil as many others think.

I think that BS that come here are looking for help & support during a VERY traumatic time in their marrigae & they want to SAVE their marriage, so POV from OW count for what????

I think catnip summed it all up perfectly.

I appreciate everyone's POV. If it doesn't apply to me or I disagree, so what, I disregard it.

LynnG, suggests legal advice. She states to do things LEGALLY, so what if you disagree. She is not doing anything ILLEGAL. Is that what you are so mad about, that she can actually DO something since it is LEGAL?

No one is "getting screwed".

If a OW can go "go after" MM to get ALL that her child "deserves" then BS can definately LEGALLY protect everything she and H have, to provide BC everything they "deserve".

What is the difference?

And if you want to talk about what is unfair--let me fill you in--when they calculate and compare MM income to OW income (oh just so no ones panties get in a bunch I am referring to my OW and any that are on welfare) they only look @ income OW receives from actual WORK-----so OW "really needs the $$$"-HELLO-how about subtracting the fact that she is receiving food stamps, or rental assistance or a gov. check every month for her other child or even CS for other child? Shouldn't that be counted as some sort of income, it is $$$$ coming into her home that offsets her expenses.

MY children are an "optional" credit/expense into the equation and we get NO gov't. assistance but they tell me that I can get a job and then consider MY income so why not consider OW other sources of income!!!!!!!????

We have to fight tooth and nail for a judge to even consider OUR children but......OW get all the sympathy because her income is less than H and I's combined? ARE YOU CRAZY? WE have TWICE as many people in our household!!!!!

So don't you dare start trying to say how ANY BS is screwing some OC out of what they "deserve"!!!

Now I DARE you to talk to me about WHO'S GETTING SCREWED HERE and who is being immoral here when it comes to finances.

And yes, our CS seems low, NOW but it is comparative to what H makes, which, right now is not much. Originally it was over $500 and we were expected to live off the rest, which was $1500, for 5 people!!!!!!! now tell me who is getting SCREWED here!

Lynn is just protecting herself legally. Like someone else said, if OC is insulted that will be OW responsibility to explain. And if you really think logically about it, OC will most likely NOT be a little child anymore by the time MM dies, come on, they will be an adult who can form their own opinions by then.

It's not BS job to protect & be considerate of OC feelings. Just like it is not OW job to protect and be considerate of BC feelings. Would it be nice, sure but it is too late for that, if people were being "nice" and considerate we wouldn't be here, we'd be on the "romantic date board" or something!!!!!!!!!!!

Business is business and BS are now forced to treat their family and assests as business so that they don't lose everything they have contributed to and worked for because 2 people were selfish and reckless! Some have more than ohters to protect. So what!

I never ever said that bs should not protect there children. It never came out of my mouth. Nor did I say that they should leave anything to that child in the will. I said leave them nothing versus 1.00. It's just cruel. As I see it KT, you are struggling and I by what I've heard you say you've done it by the book. You've had a hard road. I also agree with you that her income should include her houseing (I'm in property management so I so agree) and food stamps and any money she gets from the state. I don't think her other cs should be considered, that is for her other children. I don't have a problem with protecting anyone as long as it's done with out hatered and without screwing someone over. Bottom line. I don't care what the situation is. But because we are on the other side of fence I don't expect anyone to see what I am saying. Lynn does have some good advise, I've never said she did not. In fact her and I agree that everyone concerned needs to have it legal. It is just the way she or I would go about it that I don't agree. As she said the oc is no concern of hers. That is so true. It is of her husband's though. Maybe legally he is doing the right thing as what the courts see, but morally that is just so cruel. And yes Lynn, I can talk morally. If your husband is a changed man so can the ow change. My God help you if you ever find yourself in a situation that you never expected to be in and you have someone bash you from one end to the other even after you saw what you did was wrong. I am going to drop this for my points are taking out of context and only part of what I said is being read. I see Lynn thinking what she has done to the oc as being funny and ha ha....I got the best of them. Sorry to intrude.

<small>[ March 18, 2004, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

I don't feel lynn said it was funny about leaving the dollar. If you leave 0 then they fight for it. If you leave at least 1.00. They can't fight for what is yours. I never took her to say leave all OC 1.00! Took the information at the COVER YOUR A GAME that we BS have been placed in. I believe the information she has given me is do thing LEGAL and protect yourself. Not all OW are the same and most are unsaved, uncaring, selfish, decietful, women who I feel don't deserve squat!!! They did what they did to them selves and make their bed so they should have to lie in it. As for the H they should be accountable also, and so they will by someone a whole lot higher than I. Just wondering what is the TOW? And where is it. I would like to see how some of these people think?. I think Lynn and others have helped the BS to get off the pitty pot and take care of things that we need to do. They have been there and done that and most who haven't have been screwed by the OW. It's funny OM just get to walk and let someone else take care of their problem and (MOST not ALL) OW just want to be there in the middle of your life. I know mine wants to be all up in our life.

The reason I think CS SHOULD be considered as income is:

1) they are considering that child as being OW dependant, but someone else is helping to support so then either consider the support OR count child as 1/2 dependant.

2) they consider MY income as support for my kids, lowering H obligation to them and allowing MORE for OC, so CS should be counted/included the same for OW or my income should NOT be included in the calculation.

But mind you we do it "legally" which you guys applaud, but so is Lynn. AND by us doing it "legally", it is by no means FAIR!!!!

Do you see my point? Lets make it fair ALL around. The way the system is now is soooo obviuosly unfair and biased it's just laughable.

The reason Lynn leaves $1 is because if they leave nothing then OC can sue and say OC was merely "forgotten" or that by being a "blood" relative, OC is "entitled" to something of the estate. This prevents that from happening.

That is ok for you to agree and you are free to read into it any emotion you like.

I resent when people say I am "still struggling". Like it's a bad thing. It makes me think, how can you tell when I don't, when I let OW get her way or what? What does that mean?

AND heck yah, I'm struggling! Why wouldn't I be? I expect to "struggle" with this for the rest of my life. Maybe it's just me but I cannot "just get over it", as I have also read as the popular opinion on TOW.

Some days I will "struggle" less and others days more. And I GREATLY appreciate the support and encouragement when it is more.

But am I somehow more "allowed" because we have C? Does no one believe Lynn and her family would have been going through the same bs if they had attempted C! She was smart and avoided it but she is a terrible monster because she did not UNREALISTICALLY think that it "would all work out" and OW would be so supportive of "daddy's" involvement w/ OC while staying w/ wife.

She has mentioned the same type of whiny crap that her OW has pulled and that is W/O C so imagine if there would have been C! They did not waffle on their decision that has worked for them.

I'm sure the situation like mine (and many others that attempt C) reinforce to her and H what a good and smart decision to have NC was for them.

I respect that and I wish I would have met someone like her earlier and would have even known about the legal separation thing too!

I think it is heartless and cold to tell anybody to "get over it". I have lived the oc drama and would never tell anyone to "get over it". It is something you learn to deal with.

And KT, yes,your story totally reinforces our choice of no contact. Not only that, but when I read the ow on here, intruding on a marriage building site to encourage anyone to consider the oc, that reinforces me also.

I see the BW on here as hurting and confused souls. I choose to be harsh and matter of fact. I would love to go to them and hold them why they cry. I would love to coddle them as they try to sort out what to do, etc. However, years of this has taught me that inaction is an action that will get you stomped again. I want to let these BW know that they will be ok. They will go on to wonderful lives. They will be happy. No matter what. But they need to do a few things first.

When you are in a car accident you go to the hospital. Who has time for that?????? When you learn of an oc, you need to get proactive and quick. Protecting assets, especially in the early days when you are not even sure what you will do. How many wives are thinking of divorce from day one? Plenty. So, get things done LEGALLY. And then decide what you are going to to with the marriage, contact, etc.

It drives the ow and their contingent batty. But who cares what they think. They have proven, on this board, over and over again, that their only concern is them the oc and what they feel they are entitled to. I on the other hand care only for my family, my children and their future. I guess that makes me a monster!! And of course the ow is some saint. Give me a break.

The ow can whine and fuss all she wants about BW and no contact and the amount of child support. She can cry foul about legal means to protect assets. Nobody should care. SHE is not sitting at home thinking "gee, I think I will not ask for cs, I would hate to disrupt the lives of the children in the marriage, I would hate to see them go without...." But they expect the BW to be concerned about the welfare of the oc? Sorry. This is the real world. And as mean and selfish as the ow (and yes MM) were to create this oc, it is them and them alone who own the mess. The BW is entitled to protect and should protect her children.

I wish they would get it through their skuls that the oc is NOT THE BW problem. Why is that so damm hard for them to comprehend? Or do they look at this poor innocent child and can't believe that anyone would be so cruel as to shun this child? Not realizing that the children of the marriage are dealing with thier own problems created by the affair. But to the ow, those children don't matter.

So I could give a rats butt if some ow, or ow supporter thinks I am mean. Their opinions mean squat to me. This is a site for Marriage Repair, and this area is for people, rebuilding a marriage and dealing with an oc. Last I looked it was not a site for OW to demand and discuss the evil BW who do not put the oc above everyone.
They have their own place. I do not go to their board (imagine how fast I would be deleted!!), and argue about the plight of the children of the marriage and how unfair it is to them.

The whole point of discussion on this board is how a couple can deal with an oc. Some have chosen contact, and others don't. Then we discuss the why, why not, etc. Some ow come on here and come unglued at the $1.00 in the will. I ask what part of that scenario did they grab? It was not the "....to avoid oc trying to sue the estate, thiking oc was forgotten, it assures that the estate CAN'T be sued by oc..." No way do they see that as necessary to keep the will binding, all they see is the amount of money the oc will or will not get. They could care less how upsetting it would/could be to the children of the marriage to deal with the death of a parent, and then having to deal with their fathers mistakes from his past. All they see is how upsetting it would be for their child. Well, I am making sure MY children will not be upset.

As for doing things legally: I get to go to a Fab spa, with a bunch of women. We are going as the guests of a BW who hired an attorney early along with her H to protect themselves as they waited for oc to be born. After months of being told they would have to pay this and pay that, the child ended up not being MM. They started to sue ow and she settled out of court. BW is blowing the wad on the women who helped her through that time. The law protected their interests. The SAME law that would protect oc and give oc the child support is also there for the BW/MM.

So pffffttt to those who think that any BW is wrong to protect herself, her children, her income, her lifestyle.

I guess I look at my twins cs as theres. What there dad gives me is a good amount and it is used on them. I don't go out and buy myself clothes with it, nor do I take myself out with it. It's theres and they use it. It's helps with living expenses but it's for them. It does not pay all the bills which in my state we have a shared living expense here. My kids are in dance too. They want to be in soccer, but have told him them activity at a time becasue we don't have the money to put them in more than one. I should not have my girls suffer becasue there cs was considered into my income and then they no longer get to go to dance, or can't have special something for doing all there chores and being good for that month. I'm very surprised that your income is considered into that with the ow. I do see your point on that to a degree. I also looked at the 1.00 in the will as a slap in the face. Not to ow, but oc. Do you think a sibling would think oh good buisness move. Leave a bit more if that is what the point is. But why put insult to injury. It's down and out cruel. Lets put this other senero on the other foot. Let's say I am married still living with h and because I wanted to get more money out of xmm I filed a seperation for the sole purpose of getting more moeny from xmm. I would be looked at as a money hungry gold digger, bitter ow using my child to p*ss off xmm and his wife and taking away from his kids. I think a lot of emotions are involved with these kinds of situations and that plays a lot into how we react over things. But I also see you KT as in a different situation as lynn. I agree that you should not pay for that child's private school. You don't even have your own kids in private school. She is asking for more than what your able to do with your kids. The same with the medical insurance. It's very sad that your kids are not covered and hers is. I've got a real problem with that. If she can afford to put her child in private school then she should have to be able to pay more for her child in regards to the necessesties in life as the medical insurance. Do you see what I'm saying? It's not that I see lynn as this horid person, I see her with her words taking out her haterd for the ow on the child. I would protect my kids as well, but would have to do it with what I felt comfortable with and could live with. Yes I would protect my own income as well. I totaly understand that. I see the oc as part of the mm and because we are on different sides of this we probaly will never see eye to eye. That would be with any situation though that could happen. KT, I never said you should just get over it. I'm sure as you said some days are worse than others and visa versa. If I said anything close to it, it would of been if your choosing to stay married then there are some things you have to accept, just like as the ow as to accept. Point blank. Emotions are emtions no matter who has them or what brought them on. Some people learn from there mistakes, some don't. AS far as contact goes....it's a personal thing. I think the more I've read on BOTH boards that really unless it's special cirumstances it does not work. Do I think it's best for the child, no, but what is worse? Having contact and being all streesed and angry, or having no contact and living in peace? I think living in peace is best. Things can be made up for.

whoo hoo lynn G!!

Wasn't there a poster on TOW who stated that the MM should provide EXTRA child support to make up for the emotional support he wasn't giving the OC???

The children in the home were getting his emotional support..and THIS should be taken into consideration when figuring CS???

I shake my head at the rationalizations!!!

Keep up the good work Lynn!!

<small>[ March 18, 2004, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: abigailz ]</small>

Cruel to who? The oc??? Once again, the oc is NOT THE PROBLEM OF THE BW or the BC. They owe the oc NOTHING.

Was it not cruel to the betrayed children to have to lose out on financial advantages cause of the oc??? How is this any different?

If the BC can't get braces cause of the amount of $$ to oc, isn't that a slap in the face to the BC? Good greif, get over yourself. The oc is going to be hurt because of what his mother chose for him, and that is the life of an oc. The children of the marriage get hurt because of what their father chose.

The "....slap in the face to the oc...." is once again thinking only of the well being of the oc, and not considering the welfare and best interests and feelings of the children of the marriage.

Why do I continue to bang my head against a brick wall? I guess because it feels so good when I stop.

Well forget I asked about the TOW board. Talk about hatred!!! O M G !!! These people are wacked!! No one from this board has ever put peoples feelings and what is right down like that. That shows me that MOST not ALL of the OW are after is hurting the xmm in whatever way they can and do whatever they can to keep crap stired up. Now more than ever I feel like saying PREACH ON LYNN AND OTHERS!!! And what ever way the BS is thinking about going get your self and your children covered first and foremost. These OW don't care about our feelings our children or what happens to us. They have the idea that our H stayed because we have children. And they tried to even the playing field and when our H still stay they can't figure out that the love us and they where just what they where. Yes our H cheated for what ever reason, but they are with their us and not them. And now we are the bad person for sticking with their decisions of NC or C. Maybe just maybe the WS doesn't want a reminder of the BIG mistake that he made in front of him everyday. And is now happy with what he had all along and sorry he ever feel for the OW deceitfulness of conceiving a child they never wanted anyway. Most of them just want the sex anyway because the BS was busy taking care of home, children, and bs coming from the WS. I'm sure having sex is much more enjoyable when you don't have to wash thier underware or pick up their stuff or listen to the paying of the bills ect !!! We (BS) are soooo bad because they messed up? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Don't get that. And we are hiding behind the bible? Nope, just have a hand to help us through our times and make us stronger. I thank God that I have him and he is with me. And feel sorry for those who don't know what that is like! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Want me to help shove your head into the wall???

Just kidding.

Yeah, this argument is old and going nowhere. You will forever think of the oc only. I will forever think of the BC only.

You're kidding like there's a flying monkey coming out of my rear end. And why don't you go back and read some of my old posts, Lynn? I think that the CS system is outdated and needs a major overhaul. I don't cry "poor me, poor my OC". Stop lumping all OW together. Some of us have grown up and moved on with our lives. And have gotten over the anger. Maybe you should try the same sometime? Might do great things for the lines on your face that seems to be all pinched up like you just swallowed a lemon whole. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Eeeew, Joshmom! Lovely visual!

If any of us went to YOUR board and just said what YOU just said here, Bee or Myst or Chud or someone else would come along instantly and say, "You better watch it...you're treading on thin ice here, Joshmom!" "You don't belong here!" "Go to your own board "cult" and "This is OUR safe haven" And then they would gang up and chase you off and PM each other what a joke you are and what a bytch you are and congratulate each other for saying somewhat clever nasty things to the "troll". See the double standard here? The hypocracy makes me crazy.

Yep, Yep, Yep.

I think men, (married or not, sperm donors or real fathers) have a "responsibility" to children they concieved. No arguement there, but some try to argue over what "responsibility" means.
***********
BUT you have to remember every CENT of CS paid is coming OUT of the household budget. IT is being taken away from the budget that was being used to create a lifestyle for the spouse AND the children. SO hello!!!!!!

Any $$$$ going out of the home is no longer available for the household budget. How do you make up the difference? Where does that $$$ come from? Do you really believe BS were getting so much of it? Any mother KNOWS that she comes last w/ needs and wants, we always provide for our children FIRST.

Every CENT in CS that OC receive can be considered a CENT that BC do not receive! AND when you factor in that many single moms are on welfare, no matter why, then percentage wise, she has a lower expense ratio per dollar.

Not many MM's households are on welfare which means EVERY CENT of expense, they pay for themselves.

Grandma is not buying my kids a pair of new shoes every month. No one is buying my kids a new school backpack every quarter. No one else is paying for my groceries, helping me with rent, paying our medical bills or any "uncovered" costs, or supplementing our household income in any way.

I have always tried to teach my children that material things do not matter. We shop @ the thrift store to reinforce this concept, we don't buy name brand clothes much less [name brand]food!

When things get so tight that I have to think, "is this injury bad enough to warrant a trip to the ER?", because we can't afford health insurance----there is something wrong with the system. When MY children have NO extra-curricular activities and OW mentions that she has to take OC out of dance because she can no longer afford it!!!!! Then I say---get a real FULL TIME job!
*********
Heck yah I'm angry! There are enough public services and programs out there to fully support any single mom. You can get rental assistance, a monthly gov't check, food stamps, FREE daycare, FREE medical coverage for you & child AND if child is on father's insurance then state coverage will pay your share of co-pays, WIC (which is private), you can go back to school (college)for FREE AND get FREE job training, PLUS CS!

We take full responsibility for our expenses and income. I am rallying and upset about the fact that many (not all) OW are NOT forced to take full responsibility for their financial situation much less anything else.
********
They tried to steal someone's H, when that did not work, they tried to steal an INNOCENT child's father and then when that did not work-------they make MM PAY!!!!!!by stealing income from his family.

Someone has just GOT to pay right? NO ONE is going to get off that EASY! MM should not get of FREE!!! If I HAVE to raise this child alone then MM has to PAY for it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

MM was not forced to cheat, OW was NOT forced to comply, niether was OW FORCED to have and keep a child she could not afford.

BUT yet some try and convince a BS that they should AGREE to WILLINGLY give up $$$$ from their household budget and income, give up time w/ their H, that thier children HAVE to give up time w/ daddy for an "innocent" stranger!??? Then are insulted when they do not agree. ???

The only one who is being FORCED to do anything is BS and BC. So why do some of you get so upset when a BS is not going to allow herself to be FORCED into anything?
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I really do not think it is the $1 thing that upsets you because I think ANY amount of $$$ would not make up for the fact that OC did not have a father. Most will say, "it's not the $$$ that matters, it a child's right to a father". OK so if MM left OC $1000 or $10,000 it would not matter because OC only wanted a father, then OW might say, "OH MM is just trying to buy you off to get rid of his guilt!"

If you say it IS the amount of $$$$ then you prove that $$$$ is the only thing you really cared about. A slap in the face is a slap in the face no matter how soft it is!

OC did not have father, why? Because OW chose to have sex w/ MM and then have baby anyway w/o daddy and MM chose to do right thing by not abandoning family. DUH!

MM tried to correct mistake while OW compounds it and hurts others @ the same time.

AGAIN, if OW cares so much about OC having a father AND CS, they can give the child up for adoption THEN OC gets ALL the financial support they need PLUS a loving intact home!

That was a reply for her offering to help slam my head into a brick wall. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It's just not worth it. And this IS an argument that will go on till the end of time. Everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, etc. on CS, contact, every aspect of it. I will admit that my response was less than mature. I lowered myself to her standards. Trust me, it won't happen again.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JoshMom:
[QB]

=^^= As Bee and Myst and Chud and Jil and all the others on TOW who constantly and unceremoniously demanding BS to "get the F off their board" saying "this board is NOT for BS...go to MB, the "cult" and stay off our site with all the other Christians."

JM: Then how about going back and removing the names off of your post. That's not fair and you know it, and it will just open up a whole new can of worms.

=^^= I wasn't aware that you are now a moderator here on MB too, Joshmom.

What can of worms? Is my calling out the obvious offending the offenders? I am hard pressed to be overly concerned about this. Why would this be a can of worms here? None of us here care what anyone over there thinks or feels...no one over there obviously thinks about or cares about anyone here. Naming names IS fair...you people have certainly named names more than once on your site...mine being one of them. Kitty Litter comes to mind (which I thought was funny and cute actually) and then there's my personal favorite...Cat [censored]...hahaha. So, puh-leeze! Don't talk to me about "fair" or I will have to laugh in your collective faces again since we don't have a red-assed "moon" icons or any of your lady-like "puke" icons to show you my assessment of your site and the members within. I think there are about six women on your site...maybe seven, that are the most "cruel, hateful and bitter" nasty gashes I have ever witnessed. You, Lady Joshmom, are not included in that nest of vipers. You are usually OK, fine, whatever. But, you are so way off here it ain't funny. Any OW coming here and chastising any BS for protecting her family is waaaay out of line. The crust, Joshmom, is amazing. If you think about this logically and without prejudice, taking your own personal situation out of the mix, you might come to realize that leaving the OC a dollar is only a legal and symbolic gesture to prevent the OC from waltzing in at a later date while the BETRAYED CHILDREN are grieving their loss and having to contend with a lawsuit from someone they never heard of before. Just ONCE...just ONCE, can any of you OW's for just one moment take into consideration what the BETRAYED CHILDREN have gone through, witnessed, endured and tolerated and been denied because of OW and OC. For ONCE, let us NOT think of OW or OC....let's just think of the BETRAYED CHILDREN and put away all the mewlings about the OC because the courts see to it that the OC gets significant CS in most cases. Wills can be changed as circumstances change. To come here and scold BS's for doing something to protect their own within the first five years after D-day is cruel, hateful and bitter in my book. I think all OW should give all BS a pass for the first five years and DEFER to her until she can clean up the mess YOU made within her family. (not meaning "you" personally...just generalities)During that time if the BS and OW can come to a reasonable and respctful resolution regarding OC and integrate OC into the family, THEN you can discuss if any provisions have been made for OC in XMM's will...until that time, back off.

Being a mod on C&A over there, a LOT is tolerated - because I think that sometimes ALL sides need to be heard.

=^^= Really? I only see any deference to BS when they come there groveling and agreeing with TOW and bad-mouthing MB. IF a BS comes to TOW and bad-mouths MB, then you guys welcome her with open arms...that's the only criteria to gain acceptance! Please direct me to just one thread where BS was "tolerated" without being told she doesn't belong there and to get the F off their board and go back to their cult with Dr. "Hardly".

Yes, if someone comes over and starts being rude and nasty, they get "poofed".. just like they would HERE.

=^^= I got "poofed" but not for being rude and nasty...I got poofed for telling truths no one wanted to hear. People get poofed here only when they are completely vicous and disrespectful...AND they have to be chronic.

We don't have a *private* board like you do.

=^^= You have your PM's. It's basically the same thing. All you have to do is set up your own chat room and you've got your private board.

Just about everything we say is out there for the world to see, comment on, ridicule, "spew" upon, or just read. If everyone could respect each other and realize that each situation is unique - then maybe we could all get along in some twisted sort of way.

=^^= Most post here on public rather than Private. Private is more for sensitive topics that could reveal someone's identity that might be dangerous or compromising to a BS. So you see at least 75% of what we discuss because we want to remain available to Newbies. You'd all go nuts if you read Private anyway. It would cause serious board wars. Haha...just kidding.

And just for the record? I think leaving $1 in the will is like having the last laugh, and pretty nasty to do to a kid.

=^^= Oh for crying out loud. Think what you want. I thought you were smarter and more pragmatic than that. You people have to stop with that tired old "nasty to the kid" crap because not only is it not so and stupid and ridiculous, but it ain't our job to make sure your OC is happy and comfy. We have our own kids to care for, help through the mess and comfort and love. Because of what the OW did to us! (and don't bring up..."uh, uh...what about what the H did??????" Yeah, yeah, yeah...we all know that and that's not the issue here and they are obviously NOT HERE to discuss it with you. And they are the ONLY ones you should be taking this up with...not the BS that were so devastated by what you did. Really, think about how ridiculous it is to even come here and mention it, scold us or berate us for YOUR OC, whose existance ruined our lives as we knew it. Take care of your kids, we'll take care of ours. You didn't care and still don't care about ours, so please, please, please stop demanding we care for yours (even though we probably do) Just stop force feeding us. We are all already financially suffering because of your kids...ain't that enough revenge? Doesn't that make you at least a little happy that we are miserable in our struggle to make ends meet?

Imagine if all you knew about your parent was that they hated you so much that they'd leave you $1 in their will? Leave $150, something.

=^^= None of the parents HATE the OC!!!! You sound like NTMO, who just rambles on and refuses to read, understand and retain anything. I was abandoned by my dad and survived. My son was abandoned by his dad and survived. My two step kids were abandoned by their motheer and they survived. WE all have scars for sure, but we are smart enough to align ourselves with the people who love us and not the people who don't. (The glass of water is half FULL) In the cases here, it isn't a situation of divorce like in my family...it is a situation of infidelity that is entirely different with entirely different dynamics. THINK, you people...THINK.

I completely agree that everyone should protect themselves AND their children, but doing it in an underhanded way is just wrong and it reflects on what kind of person YOU (not directed at anyone in particular - it's just a general "YOU") are.

=^^= No one here is being "underhanded". The law sees to that. Blame the courts for the dollar rule. Underhanded is when XMM works for cash and doesn't report it or changin identity. Hey!.....hmmmm.....

Haha...just kidding

Lighten up, Joshmom. You're a smart woman and you're a great mom and a really good person and everyone here likes you, so why are you all twisted up over something you yourself would do if the situation were reversed?