[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:
[QB] catnip,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so f'g nice tio see that you have f'g returned to our little f'g group. i oft times wondered how you were doing with your f'g education and new f'g vocation. now i will ask you "what the f is that?" must be the f'g kind of lanquage you pick up from our f'g educational system. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

=^^= pops! You are so cute! F'g is easier and shorter that constantly typing out "freaking" or "fu**ing" to get a point across. My "writing style" yesterday was inspired by what I had been reading (two weeks worth) on TOW threads and I was all fired up and it was a parody of their language usage on the other site. Did I offend you, pops? I'm sorry if I did...I usually don't talk that way unless I am really worked up.

i read nyc's post and didn't find it insulting or lectureing at all. mearly offering an opinion in a polite manor. and in response she recieved a post from lynn who in her own words staes that "what has me angry" and "it makes me mad".
you are an excellent writer and often use words that i need to look up in the dictionary. but go ahead and choose your adjective. angry, mad bitter, hateful whatever. they all fall into the same category to me, just a nail poundin, ex pot smokin, long haired 60's hs grad.

=^^= As a former pot smoking, bra burning, war protesting, concert-going, macrame-ing Flower Child, I can identify with your being offended by someone's unpeaceful-like delivery. However, the days are long gone where we could all come together and burn incense and discuss in depth the mysteries of the universe, a euphoric world peace while listening to Santana or better yet...Dylan. Sometimes it occurs to me...what a long, strange trip it's been...how we have gone from there to here within a couple decades and not been able to find the answers that elude us is testimony that not much changes human nature.

Lynn's reactions/delivery/whatever...is just Lynn's way, IMO. Let's just put a warning label on her and let her be. MOST, if not ALL of the time, her information is invaluable. If that NY person hit a nerve with her, consider the "whys" behind it. Maybe she just wanted to nip a potential problem in the bud. My question is "why does it bother you so much?"

because they are mad they tend to be insulting and it comes off as bitter. i feel their are ways to debate an issue without the arguementive attitude.

=^^= Good luck, pops. I can't imagine anyone of us being able to maintain low tones and avoid an argumentative attitude while discussing these sensitive betrayal-related issues where we are so often "baited" by TOW. We have waaaay too many OW's coming here mouthing off for that to happen...hence, Lynn's reaction/delivery etc. Maybe she is a protective Mother Bear type looking out for here Newbie Cubs. I can understand this perfectly and in fact, I PREFER it to glazed over beaten puppies compliance, willing to endure abuse from people bearing ill will. I think a lot of us confuse "angry" with "bitter". If I pinched you in that soft spot under your arm, it would make you mad/angry for a moment because it hurt and becasue it surprised you and because you were caught off guard and because it was unprovoked. If I apologized, you would probably not hold a grudge (unless I did it again...hahaha), so therefore you would not become "bitter" over it. You would not be "labeled" bitter or cruel in your response. You were just temporarily and momentarily angry... and justifyably so. It's the same thing here...someone (perp) says something to piss someone (vic) off, they get mad, then the perp labels the vic as bitter! It defies logic.

If someone constantly pokes at the Puppy, the Puppy WILL snarl. If it looks like someone is going to take Puppy's bone, Puppy will bare its teeth. Cause and effect. In a perfect world, pops...in a perfect world.


but what does ruffle my feathers (and has also been noted by some much wiser men then myself such as K and JL) is her delivery.

=^^= I know, I know. You're entitled to get "ruffled" if you want to. I have heard this from many since she got here. But focusing on her delivery rather than her message clouds the issues entirely. Perhaps we should just accept that Lynn's a Bytch and realize she ain't about to change and be grateful that she lights a fire under Newbies frozen in fear and without direction and about to do something stupid...or worse, do nothing to protect themselves. Let's not get all whipped into a frenzy and get distracted from the message. Let's embrace Lynn's bytchiness! I've embraced mine! Hahaha. I think it's great. We need diverse, smart, interesting and passionate people otherwise this board is BORING!!!!!!!

now on to my being thin skinned? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> that my dear is a good one. the answer to that is hardly. i have been beat on, chewed out and belittled by professionals. nothing here even comes close. i in no way see any of lynn's tirades as personal attacks on grace or my family.

=^^= Oh, good. I was WRONG. Mea culpa, mea culpa. I deeply and sincerely apologize and I am not patronizing or blowing smoke here, pops. I sincerely mean it. I am sorry. I was wrong. You da man. I'm an [censored].

if i were standing on the edge of the earth gazing out into the vastness of the universe with om standing next to me. i would probably say something like "dude can you believe what an incredible site we are priviledged to cast our eyes upon". and with that i would give him a firm pat on the back hard enough to knock him over the edge and i would dazzle as i watched the magnificant sight of him falling into an endless void of space. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

=^^= Hahahahahahaha!!! I love it...Coca Cola spray all over my monitor. You crack me up. Thank God you still harbor those fantasies so I don't have to hate myself for mine.

The best defense is an offense, IMO.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catnip:
<strong>
You'd all go nuts if you read Private anyway. It would cause serious board wars. Haha...just kidding.

JM: It probably would. But that's why you have it. And why we have our PM's. You should check yours once in a while.

=^^= Oh for crying out loud. Think what you want. I thought you were smarter and more pragmatic than that. You people have to stop with that tired old "nasty to the kid" crap because not only is it not so and stupid and ridiculous, but it ain't our job to make sure your OC is happy and comfy. We have our own kids to care for, help through the mess and comfort and love. Because of what the OW did to us! (and don't bring up..."uh, uh...what about what the H did??????" Yeah, yeah, yeah...we all know that and that's not the issue here and they are obviously NOT HERE to discuss it with you. And they are the ONLY ones you should be taking this up with...not the BS that were so devastated by what you did. Really, think about how ridiculous it is to even come here and mention it, scold us or berate us for YOUR OC, whose existance ruined our lives as we knew it. Take care of your kids, we'll take care of ours. You didn't care and still don't care about ours, so please, please, please stop demanding we care for yours (even though we probably do) Just stop force feeding us. We are all already financially suffering because of your kids...ain't that enough revenge? Doesn't that make you at least a little happy that we are miserable in our struggle to make ends meet?

JM: I can understand the logic behind it. And I'm not looking at it from the view of an OW - I'm looking at it as to how the CHILD would feel. It's tough enough to explain to the kid that his father isn't around, and believe me, I don't badmouth him to him - he's got to make up his own mind when he's old enough to be told the truth.

=^^= Lighten up, Joshmom. You're a smart woman and you're a great mom and a really good person and everyone here likes you, so why are you all twisted up over something you yourself would do if the situation were reversed? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JM: Ahhhhhhh Catnip. You and I could have some great debates, I think. And we'd probably really LIKE each other were we ever to meet IRL. And I'm not all twisted up about it. I think that maybe it's the "delivery" of it, and being lumped together with "all the nasty OW that are out to screw BW and their kids"..

Personally, I DO care about BW and the kids. I feel horrible for my actions and the result. There are many things that I could have done to make their lives even more miserable, but I'm above that. I knew where his two older kids worked, because it was the grocery store that I shopped at all the time. Did I EVER say anything to them? NO WAY. That's not my place. Did I EVER say anything to his W other than an apology? No. Did I ever say or do anything to be malicious towards them? No. Never called his house, didn't drive by on a daily basis (although I will admit driving by a couple of times - every time I wanted a reality slap - and that was VERY few times). Do I get CS? Yes. Is it under the state guidelines? Yes. Do I contact him if I have to? Yes. And I do it the way HE has requested - by sending mail to his PO box, not to his house. I have MOVED 1,000 miles away. I'm probably the "best" kind of OW to have (isn't that kind of an oxymoron though?) - one that leaves them alone. But if xMM were to die - the last thing on my mind would be to go after anything. I'd be sad for my son because he never had a chance to know his father. And sad for xMM because he never had a chance to know his son.

And KT - I'm sorry for helping with the huge threadjack. I think the CS system sucks, and you got the short end of the stick. I think it should be fair to ALL parties involved, and it's obvious that it hasn't been that way to you.

Exactly JM.
All these things that the ow does here I can't imagine doing. I don't bug them...he** when he calls me I don't even call him back or answer his calls. I have stopped going to certain stores or coffee shops that I've gone to forever before him just to avoid an avoidance.

KT, you mentioned me having to take my kids out of dance......I work a second job for anything extras for my kids. It's my choice so they can have the chance to do as there class mates do and so they won't be left out. I am actually lucky that I can work from home to make money too so my kids are not in day care all the time I work. I gave up for my kids just as much as the next mother. I work from home with one job (my main income) in order to be there for my kids and if there sick I can take that time off without getting into trouble.....and I do with out my own medical coverage or benifit job in order to do this. I have another job in order to give my kids the extra that they deserve.

To OW who are so hurt by the father only leaving $1 to OC in the will....well, that's what you selected for your child!!! You should have chosen an available father, not someone who already had a family. You choose a family man, you get sloppy seconds. Deal with it.

And here's another novel idea...NOBODY is OWED an inheritance!!! Not BC, not OC!! If a parent wants to blow all their money, so be it. If they wish to leave it to their survivors (some or all), so be it. An inheritance is not an entitlement...it's a gift. If a parent wishes to give their last gift to the children of the marriage only, that is their personal choice and their right!!

Oh NO NTMO----sorry, I was talking about MY OW mentioning taking OC out of dance class and she had never even told us she was putting her in.(the joint custody "thing" ---decisions are to be made by BOTH parents) Sorry for not clarifying.

Good job on the working from home deal! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> So do I, gotta make up for the lost income somehow. Yep, I resent it a little.

consequences, consequences.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gardenbunny:
<strong> To OW who are so hurt by the father only leaving $1 to OC in the will....well, that's what you selected for your child!!! You should have chosen an available father, not someone who already had a family. You choose a family man, you get sloppy seconds. Deal with it.

And here's another novel idea...NOBODY is OWED an inheritance!!! Not BC, not OC!! If a parent wants to blow all their money, so be it. If they wish to leave it to their survivors (some or all), so be it. An inheritance is not an entitlement...it's a gift. If a parent wishes to give their last gift to the children of the marriage only, that is their personal choice and their right!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you on that second paragraph whole heartly.

Thanks KT, I had just posted about my girls in dance and then you said what you said. Thank you again. Tell her take that money for private school to put her back in dance. Then put her in public school, or look for a charter school with less students close to both of you........that is free.

catnip,,,,,,,,,,,,,, me thinks what gives me the wedgie is that i am a softy for kids. always have been and always will be. i think that society is continuelly rewarding and turning the other chek for celebrities and sports heros (and i am using the term lightly) for the sake of the almighty dollar.

i have spent over 22 years coaching kids and not just because my kids were playing (i have coached many teams that my kids ween't even on) (one of the things that lead fh to feel that she wasn't important) because i just wanted to try and give them some good solid values to carry thru their lives.

maybe that's why i have been able to accept things in my house so well. i feel that grace needs those same values and someone other then her mom to run to.

i should not let that set me off but i see many posts that seem directed at the oc rather then the ow.

the one thing i know of and that ain't much is that you are not a smoke blower. i don't have time to read tow board and wouldn't if i did. i could care less what someone else thinks of me for my beliefs and views. if they don't like me then oh well i probably don't like them either so we are even. no harm no foul.

i do disagree with you when you said something about these are women who are not mindless people to be lead by a strong willed person. i know you remember such people in history as saddam huesan, hitler and that quack from georgetown. who would have ever thought there would have been hundreds of thousands and hundreds respectively of people to follow those jokers into history.

to add: don't worry either about the language. remember my daily life is spent on a construction site, i have had 3 kids pass thru their teens and next year i will have 3 (God help us) teens in the house at the same time.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

kt,,,,,,,, i am sorry either i missed it or jsut didn't realize that you had JOINT custody.

that changes the whole story for me. i would be documenting every detail of ow antics and your visits with oc. good and bad as best you can from the third party point of view. then i would use that imformation in court and if ow continued her garbage i would persue primary PHYSICAL custody. is there a difference in your state as to physical and legal custody? do your court papers spell out a solution for disagreements such as mediation? or is mediation even available thru the courts for you?

i am not sure how things work in your state but here in ca they have 4 types: primary physical, joint physical, primary legal and joint legal custody.

fh's court order gives her and om joint legal and gives fh primary physical. and what that means here is that grace's primary residence is here in our home and we will be the ones making choices such as you are battleing with on the school issue.

what joint legal gives om is the right to seek medical services for grace should she need them. he doesn't have to find fh or have fh send a medical release note with him everytime he has a visitation.

Joshmom, isn't your oc older? Then why would an ow feel the need to come and whine on a boad specifically designed for MARRIAGE BUILDING and the discussion on how the MARRIED COUPLE can deal with an oc?????

This is not a board on how to molly coddle the poor oc, I believe that is over on TOW.

THIS is to help the couple decide how they are going to deal with this and what they can do. Cause yes, THEY do have choices. Just as YOU chose to bring a child into the world without a commited father. THEY have the choice to say "oc is not going to be part of our lives.." THAT is a choice that THEY can make and it is none of your business if and how they chose to do that. THEY are working on the marriage and have chosen to stay together. THAT is none of your business. What THEY chose to do with THEIR money is none of your business.

You would rather they all cower and forsake their children all for your childs benefit. No way. The children of the marriage need a voice and need to be protected. They are the ones that matter to the BW. Just like you don't consider the harm done to their children, they should not have to consider your child.

I think you need to remember where you are. Your selfsih oc spouting crap is not warranted here. How does the welfare of the oc even remotely tie in with their marriage? It doesn't. The oc is inconsequential to the future of the family.

Pops, we are also in CA.

The way you explain "joint" is exactly the way the mediator explained it which is why OW agreedH & OW have JOINT legal & physical---primary residence w/ mother.

We consider ourselves "very" involved in OC life right now, which is also why we don't take the NC idea/decision lightly. AND why we want to assert our (H's) rights and get so upset w/ OW making decisions w/o regards to H opinion or consent.

If we really thought it was possible we would honestly go for FULL custody. I know that is not possible since no one would see OW as an unfit mother-------just a pain in the A$$ and a whacko!

When we first "entered into" this madness, not knowing OW was really against it, we considered how "most" people have visitation, every other weekend w/ father. While convenient we thought it just plain absurd. How can you be a father and bond w/ your child when your time is only on the weekends and only 2x a month?

We let OW know up front we wanted MORE than that and would keep trying until we got @ least %50. That is when all the trouble began.

As we tried to be sensitive to OW and OC needs for each other and just getting to know us, we slowly incorporated OC into our family and lives more and more, hour by hour. OW then started to hold back more and more wanting us to see OC less and less, on OW terms and times only.

In the very beginning it was co-operative, I will admit, but as soon as OW was excluded from the visits and we started asking for more time--------uuurrrrttt!-------it all started to come to a crashing halt!

That's when the games began, requests by OW for H to come and "visit" w/ OC ALONE, w/o family and of course wife. "Why can't you come and spend some time w/ OC alone?, YOU are her father. OC is YOUR responsibility." Ignoring the facts that although OC is not related to ME, she is related to siblings!

The accusations by OW began, we were "lying" to OW and now she did not trust us. Everything OC said was always TRUE and we were just LYING. On & on, then accusations that OC was becoming emotionally unstable, trips to "counselors", it was ALL our fault because we were in OC life, OW would tell the counselors this. OW would agree to specific times to drop off OC then would come an hour late and NOT let us make up the time w/ OC. IT was so stupid.

OW saw nothing wrong w/ her behaviour. Then the real cat fight began between OW and I, it was ugly and my children paid for it. Don't worry I learned from that. She started to bring up the "past"....no reason for it, unprovoked....we honestly should have ended it back then. I won't forgive myself for putting MY kids through that.

But we stuck it through and here we are now. In the same predicament just deeper in.

So....we have another appointment w/ another lawyer in a few weeks.

Then we will see how OW reacts. I just can't wait until a judge ORDERS OW to OBEY the order and actually ENFORCES it and OW realizes that she CANNOT just do what she wants and whether OW likes it or not---MY H is OC FATHER (which OW CHOSE!)and he has RIGHTS which we fully intend to LEGALLY assert!

Catnip, I have missed you!! I love the way you write.

I am protective of people on here. Watching KT working through her life and the oc is inspiring. She is one lovely woman. Her commitment to everyone, at her own expense is heartwarming. When the ow came along with her tale, it irritated me. Here KT is, honest, trusting and trying to deal with huge, like altering events. Then THUD, another ow comes along. I did get angry. I feel very protective of the BW on here. I see KT moving forward, I see her on weekend getaways, I see her enjoying her life. I just know that no matter what she will survive and 10 years from now she and her family will still be intact and happy.

As she processes this, I just don't see the need for anyone to be on here whining about what is best for the oc. It just doesn't fit. Months of dialog and discussion about KT's dilema, what is right, what is wrong, how she feels, how her husband feels, how her children feel, all of that is just shoved aside and the ow are only worried about the impact on the oc????

HELLLLOOOO do they NOT read? Can they not see what is going on? How people are effected?????? Can they not understand that harm and the hurt that others are enduring?????

THAT is where I get protective of these BW here. They are suffering and trying so hard to understand and all the ow types can see is the harm it will cause the oc. Forgetting where they are.

So I do turn into a bytch when I see this. Can you imagine the reaction if a BW went to TOW and whined about the plight of her and her children? Good lord, the place would start smoking........So why should the BW have to put up with ow on here whining about the OC?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LynnG:
[QB]
Can they not see what is going on? How people are effected?????? Can they not understand that harm and the hurt that others are enduring?????

=^^= Mother Bear. I understand your frustration but it ain't gonna change. We have had these tired dialogues for years...same topics, different players...and sometimes the same players. Just like people should try to accept and tolerate your "delivery" because it is based in pure motives, I guess we have to accept that OW will always crash our board and acknowledge that the differences between BS and OW are carved in stone and it will always be that way because of the dynamics of it all. No one will ever change anyone else's mind, but sometimes we come to understand, respect and make peace with each other from the "forbidden zone"...especially oldtimers from both sides. The more reasonable ones anyway. Joshmom is one of them and while we have certainly had differences, she is usually reasonable but can get fired up and emotional like the rest of us.

OW will always come here and post and perhaps start board wars becaue it comes with the territory. I think the reason why we hear from OW at all is because they mostly can't tell off XMM and perhaps try to go through us...like telling us off "in effigy".

THAT is where I get protective of these BW here. They are suffering and trying so hard to understand and all the ow types can see is the harm it will cause the oc. Forgetting where they are.

=^^= Well, they are your cubs, and I am so glad you are the way you are. We need a Mom to take care of the Newbies in pain and direct them with tough love because they get enough placating and sympathy elsewhere. They need strength and direction and they desperately need to care for themselves and their own and not get complacent...or they could lose everything.

So I do turn into a bytch when I see this.

=^^= Thank God! Newbies get plenty of soothing coddling here (which they also need) but they need reality too, and that's where you come in. Just know that your delivery can alienate the other litter mates and there will be times when you can tone it down or turn up the heat depending on what is appropriate at the moment. I for one am OK with your delivery even if you make me wince sometimes. I just skim over the tough parts (denial-avoidance-hahaha) and go to the message. I hope others will just take what they need from you and leave the rest. If we can tolerate OW's coming here and mouthing off, we should certainly tolerate your delivery, I would think. But then, that's me...forever reasonable. Haha

Can you imagine the reaction if a BW went to TOW and whined about the plight of her and her children?

=^^= Well, it's been done with miserable results. They always hand us our asses as they escort us off their site with verbal assaults, names and language, but hey, it is their board. They could all use a collective charm school, but who am I to suggest it? Valiant ones have gone before us in an effort to extend the olive branch, Troublemakers go to mix things up for fun (not nice-like poking that puppy) and then there are the Know-it-Alls like me who have gone there to try to educate (becaue I am so dang smart) and offer logical solutions without success. Kind of like petting a bobcat and getting bit...something I ain't about to do again because it just gets poofed anyway.

So Mother Bear, look after your cubs.

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

LMAO Spewing diet coke at screen. That was hysterical Catnip!! You should really consider writing a book, using your tone!!!! It would be informative and humorous.

I guess my tough delivery annoys plenty! But I love my "cubs". I will wear my "mama-bear" title with pride!!

It's to bad this wasn't a "talking" sight. My delivery is actually more droll then tough. Actually, one thing I learned after going through everything I did, was to be tough. My husband laughs at me, I do not appear as a tough woman at all, but when pushed, I do bite back.

When we bought a new car, it was just a complete lemon. I mean this thing barely ran. So we are at the dealers, they are going to replace it, and had the nerve to tell us what the delivery fee would be. My husband and I were sitting there and I like "WHAT?". I am not a "yeller", I just stood up and put my nose close to the salesmans face and said CALMLY "your company will have that car here on Tuesday, until then, I will be driving a loaner, when we come to pick up the car, I will come in and get the paperwork and the keys, the delivery fee will have to be worked out between this dealership and the company..." Funny thing, the deal was done. I did pick up that car and all was well. I learned a long time ago that yelling, getting hysterical, crying, whining will get you absolutely nowhere and fast. Whenever you negotiate, or are dealing with any major event, calm and cool always prevails. And that my friend, was a life lesson learned the hard way!

But you really need to think of writing a book. I just love the way you communicate.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pops:
[QB] catnip,,,,,,,,,,,,,, me thinks what gives me the wedgie is that i am a softy for kids. always have been and always will be.

=^^= Well, if that isn't the most obvious statement I have heard all day! And that's why we love you so much. And it is why you have a tough time with Lynn. The ironic thing here is that you two are amazingly alike in the sense you are both so protective, but coming from two polar opposite styles. Your style is gentle and all encompassing while Lynn's style is comes through like a cannonball on Richmond. But you both hit the mark and desire to protect.

maybe that's why i have been able to accept things in my house so well. i feel that grace needs those same values and someone other then her mom to run to.

=^^= You and K have the opportunity to live with your children on a day to day basis and the XOP, who are either not part of the equation or they just don't interfere, give you the opportunity to live your lives normally. It's just not the way it is when the women are the BS, I suppose; rarely are we able to bond with OC because of the contention we see here every day on these boards. Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast. It seems to me that the men who have custody and no interference from the OP have a MUCH easier time in accepting the OC simply because of geography/location/daily interaction and a million other situations conducive in recovering the M and making a happy home for the family. Eventually. I know how devastating all this is at first and the adjustments are astronomical and the pain is horrendous, but once the dust settles, you fall in love with the child and he/she becomes yours in all the areas that matter most and soon it is business as usual...blessed normalcy.

i should not let that set me off but i see many posts that seem directed at the oc rather then the ow.

=^^= It is just your perspective....really. Really, really...to quote Shrek. But I promise on my cat's life that you get the buzzer on that one and tell you that you are absolutely wrong on this one. It might "seem" that way when the rage or grief grips someones' heart, but it is usually just a reaction and no one is beating up on the OC...in fact, the OC doesn't read here nor does OC have a clue about what is being discussed so, like you say, no harm, no foul. I can guarantee you that not once in all my years here have I ever seen any poster say anything remotely negative against OC (except me in a major grief stage that I regret and didn't really mean) in the beginning right after D-day where they might say that their lives would have been easier if OC never existed...which is undeniably true...not a slam, just the truth. Life WOULD BE easier if OC never existed. But OC DOES exist and everyone has to accept it and make the best of it. And I maintain this is much easier if you are a man who has day to day custody and the child is part of the family. Through the years, after some recovery and healing, the BW usually developes care and concern for the OC even though they have never met, never bonded, but there is still that pull to want life to be good to this little kid whose circumstances of birth had nothing to do with them. But, for BW's, there usually ain't much she can do...plus most of the time, as evidenced here, the OW are usually combative or problematic and difficult to deal with. I think women are just this way and only maturity can resolve these differences.

the one thing i know of and that ain't much is that you are not a smoke blower.

=^^= (blush) Thanks.

i could care less what someone else thinks of me for my beliefs and views.

=^^= To know you is to love you, pops. I love your POV, too....it's part of the circle. And necessary.

i do disagree with you when you said something about these are women who are not mindless people to be lead by a strong willed person. i know you remember such people in history as saddam huesan, hitler and that quack from georgetown.

=^^= Ahhh, yes, Jimmy "Kool-Aid" Jones! Scary stuff. But then, he had months and months and months to work on these people and have sex with the women to create a mesmerizing bond (he must have had a trick pelvis) to lead them to "drink" their way into oblivion. But, I think here on this site, Newbies have just temporarily had the emotional [censored] kicked out of them and they are doubled up with confusion and grief, but that's only temporary. Even at my lowest point, I did what I needed to do for me. I red everything here, listened to advice, but ultimately I did what fit my particular situation. I guess I give people more credit for being able to weather the uglies and get past it in time. Hitler's Germany was massive mind control but it didn't happen overnight and Hussein had his thugs spent decades murdering and torturing innocent citizens, so naturally they comply...or die.

who would have ever thought there would have been hundreds of thousands and hundreds respectively of people to follow those jokers into history.

=^^= I know. The world is an evil and frightening place while at the same time the most incredible and beautiful blessing filled with wonderful and amazing people. Such a paradox. But, no one on this board is THAT powerful to manipulate Newbies in crisis into doing something destructive...quite the contrary. In fact, Lynn's strength is a comfort to them. She validates their grief and justifiable anger while guiding them into protecting their children and themselves. I have never ever seen Lynn give dangerous or unsound advice. It is always logical and well thought out. Just because she is a strong personality does not make her a dictator capable of creating a cult of mindless followers.

to add: don't worry either about the language. remember my daily life is spent on a construction site

=^^= Aaaccck! So now my words have regressed to the point of being compared to blue collar discourse. Well, that's just f'ing wonderful. My construction mechanic husband and I can grunt at each other over dinner while we scratch ourselves...hahahaha. What's so hilarious is that my husband's language has been a bone of contention for 25 years and somethng he works very hard to refine. But, sometimes the boy just can't help it. After spending eight hours a day with his cohorts, he comes home with jokes and language that is quite blue (and often hilarious)

BTW...you asked about school in your earlier post to me on this threadjack, and I am here to tell you that I not only passed my course, but successfully passed a test with a decent grade in a test that only 15% of the students pass the first time out...and I passed it on the first try. Yyaaayyyyy! Yippee! Thanks for asking so I could brag. I was so sure I failed that when they told me I passed I didn't beleive them. The exchange in the office had everyone laughing; it was hilarious.

Cat =^^=

I personally like the way lynn posts AND what she has to say. I can't stand when people turn into a doormat in situations like this.

For every person that doesn't like it, there is another who does. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LynnG:
[QB]

I guess my tough delivery annoys plenty! But I love my "cubs". I will wear my "mama-bear" title with pride!!

=^^= Good. It is appreciated...even if you make me wince sometimes. Even if you make pops appoplextic with heartburn. Just for pops sake, perhaps we could both turn down the volume. I don't want him stroking out or anything.

It's to bad this wasn't a "talking" sight. My delivery is actually more droll then tough.

=^^= Really? I love droll/dry. Bipolar is that way and he is so hilarious, he should do stand up. Very clever...I plageurize his material a lot on this site. We're f'ing ridiculous people and laugh our butts off all the time. It was such a relief to have laughter come back into this house...so healing.

I do bite back.

=^^= Goodness! What big teeth you have! Goldilocks and the Three Bears, or is that Red Ridinghood? Ooooh, that's right! The Bear thing was the bed too hard, porridge too cold and all that nonsense.
Kind of like the Monk who just joined the Abby and took a vow of silence. The Head Monk told the "Newbie" that once a year he could speak two words. After year one the Head Monk said to the Monk, "Well, it's been one year, what are your two words?" The Monk said "Bed hard." The second year the Head Monk says, "It's time for your two words, what are they?" The Monk replies, "Food bad." Hmmm, OK. Another year goes by and the Head Monk asks, "What are your words this year?" And the Monk responds, "I quit". The Head Monk looks at him and says, "I'm not surprised. You've been complaining ever since you got here."

I am not a "yeller", I just stood up and put my nose close to the salesmans face and said CALMLY "your company will have that car here on Tuesday, until then, I will be driving a loaner, when we come to pick up the car, I will come in and get the paperwork and the keys, the delivery fee will have to be worked out between this dealership and the company..." Funny thing, the deal was done. I did pick up that car and all was well. I learned a long time ago that yelling, getting hysterical, crying, whining will get you absolutely nowhere and fast. Whenever you negotiate, or are dealing with any major event, calm and cool always prevails. And that my friend, was a life lesson learned the hard way!

=^^= I like it! That was very effective not to mention your ability to keep your blood pressure from skyrocketing.

But you really need to think of writing a book. I just love the way you communicate.

=^^= I've been writing a book for the past three years and almost done. My buddy Popeye wrote the Other Child which is a compilation of case studies and very different from my book which is a story with a lot of influence from people on both boards, some situations might strike a chord with the reader if they are members, but changed in ways that would quell any recognition. It's a lot longer and more in depth but offers no solutions unless there is something in there that might correlate in some way with someone's circumstances and be helpful. It's pretty dramatic too. Lot's of tears...lot's of stuff that is politically incorrect because I like to stir stuff up. And funnier than hell. A lot of my stuff is from my postings and threads through the eyars...so glad our old posts are archived on Read Only. Probably won't go to the publisher for another year at least becasue it's so scattered.

<small>[ March 19, 2004, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

kt, do yot really want OC in your life forever? Are you ready to open your heart to OC, and really accept OC into your family for life?
What you said bothers me, "Then we will see how OW reacts."

Is your H pushing for contact, or are you?

I pushed for contact, and 1 OC came to visit for a week. All truth was brought out to siblings. They all met OC, who was 10 yrs. old at the time, 1996. No contact of siblings with each other since. H and I have had no contact contact since 1996, and are trully in love with each other again.

Can you bond with this child for life? I know I could not because of too much resentment. But, if my H had wanted contact, I would have tried. H wishes NC.

If either OC comes knocking on our door, I will welcome them in. So will H.

kt, I at one time wanted contact. Please think twice if this is really what you and your H want.

Make sure you want contact because it will benefit all the children involved. Do not want contact for revenge purposes.

I wish you well. I say go for it, if this is what you want.

Everyone on this board knows H and I have no contact by choice. I posted the reasons on 12-30-2003, if anyone wishes to read.

ember

Kt~

Since ember opened the door...

I have been wondering why you continue contact? I've wondered it awhile, but especially since reading your 1st post on "New Member w/ yet another sad BW/OC story" thread.

You said the following:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We decided on C. Let me tell you that was the 2nd biggest mistake of our lives.(#1 was H A) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please don't take this the wrong way. I don't fault you for viewing C w/ your step child as a mistake. It clearly has been difficult on you, your H, M, and your children. However, I believe your statement speaks volumes. In fact you make a perfect case in the entire post (from which I took the quote) for not having contact.

To me, contact or no contact is a very private, personal decision to be made by the married couple. Only the two of you know what you, your M and your family can withstand.

I do think though, once a decision is made, either for or against contact, that we need to make the best of our choices. Try to make it work. If it doesn't work, is hurting all parties involved, and is considered a big enough mistake to rank 2nd only to the adultery itself, I believe the time has come to consider NC.

Just my thoughts...now back to my corner for now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

~ad