FIRST: the reason I wrote "how OW reacts" was in referance to OW taking C seriously. To see if she reacts by continuing her "bad behaviour" or finally accepts that she does NOT control EVERYTHING and has to share OC.

SECOND: H and I have decided that this will be our very last attempt @ making C work. IF by going back to court and making our custody agreement as "bullet proof" as possible, OW STILL tries to do things that are against it or tries to hurt me or my family in any way (usually verbally w/ comments and lies about A w/ H) then that will be it. We will walk away knowing we "acted like adults", did the "right thing" and tried our best but will no longer subject our family to OW anger & immaturity.

It will be OW fault and responsibility that OC will no longer have her father physically in her life.

No, it's not out of revenge. If I wanted revenge it would not be like that.....I'm much more creative. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

@ the same time w/ revenge being a topic, I think OW is trying to purposefully hurt us to make us want to "quit" or else w/ the mind set that OW will purposefully make sure our lives are miserable too. I don't think this is very fair much less moral either. I do think children need both parents, I don't agree that this is the best way to achieve it but H and OW chose that not I.

The reason we stay w/ C is because we are here now. It has been 21 months since we met OC. Although I regret it--we are here NOW.

When H and I decided on C we had NO idea OW would be so mean, nasty and contentious. OW had stated years earlier she wanted "nothing" so when OW decided to sue for CS, we naively thought that it meant she wanted OC to know her father too. WE were wrong. Whatever OW reasons it was not to provide OC w/ a father and DEFINATELY NOT w/ an entire "other" family!

We made it clear to OW when C began that we were "in this" for good. OW kept harping that she did not want to see OC "hurt" yet OW was the one who kept pushing us to see OC less and less.
********
I personally think OW does these mean things and pushes our buttons to purposely push us to quit so OW can "prove" what a horrible monster H was/is. OW side of the story that she has obviously been telling her friends & family all these past years has done a good job of that already and absolves OW of any responsibility for this mess.

But then how can a horrible "monster" be a "father" to your child, niece, or granddaughter? How can someone your daughter/niece/grandaughter adores/loves/and calls daddy be a monster? What does that then say about you to think that? It's hard to reconcile the 2.
**********
I am not a vindictive, bitter BS, so I do care what happens to this OC even if I can't say I "love" OC.

Even though we really can't afford a lawyer, we are going to try to borrow the $$$ to make this work one last time. I guess, technically we could call it quits now since we ahve done everything "within our means" already. But if we can borrow it we will.

When I got the email from OW last week,(& susequently flipped out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) H did say "That's IT!" but then I think, "ok let's think rationally and not make any decisions out of anger."

Because of all that has transpired these past 21 months I advise NC, to avoid all this CRAP! It has not been worth it.

Yes, OC has a "daddy" but I don't even think OC really cares or it really means that much to OC. OC does not consider us "family". OC family is OW family and OC other 1/2 sibling from mom. Maybe that could change in the future, I don't know.

I think for OC, our "home" is somewhere OC HAS to go, not necessarily somewhere OC WANTS to go. OC is too young still to understand but.....who knows?

All I know is that it has been more hurtful, sorrowful and negative than positive so far and I don't really think I want to wait 10 or so years for the "rewards" of all this. My children have childhoods to live NOW.

So still we endure, hoping that it really is in the best interest of "innocent OC", regretting the fact that it was NOT in the best interest of "innocent BC". But we are here NOW, really trying to make the best of it.

I hope that clears that up.

I'm not offended by much of anything...... Xcept MY pain in the A$$ OW thinking I'M the equivalent of "just a babysitter" to OC!

kt, I am very sorry for your pain. Our situations are so different. I have no advice.

Wishing you well,

ember

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OW had stated years earlier she wanted "nothing" so when OW decided to sue for CS, we naively thought that it meant she wanted OC to know her father too. WE were wrong. Whatever OW reasons it was not to provide OC w/ a father and DEFINATELY NOT w/ an entire "other" family!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When she sought CS, did she also state she wanted contact between father and child?

Could her reasons possibly be simply because she needed the CS, but was actually hoping for and willing to remain in continued NC?

If she never would've come out of the woodwork after those first 4 years, do you think you and your H would've sought her out to pay CS and/or seek contact w/ the child?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So still we endure, hoping that it really is in the best interest of "innocent OC", regretting the fact that it was NOT in the best interest of "innocent BC". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I have to ask, why continue C? If for no other reason, it is not in the best interest of your children. Why would you endure contact w/ your step child in hopes of it being in her best interest at the expense of what is in your children's best interest?

From all I've heard you say, I've not seen that contact is in anyone's best interest, not yours, not H's, not your children, not OC.

That's just my opinion though.

kt,,,,,,,,,,,

............
Yes, OC has a "daddy" but I don't even think OC really cares or it really means that much to OC. OC does not consider us "family". OC family is OW family and OC other 1/2 sibling from mom. Maybe that could change in the future, I don't know.

I think for OC, our "home" is somewhere OC HAS to go, not necessarily somewhere OC WANTS to go. OC is too young still to understand but.....who knows?
...................................
i told you that exgf was just as bad as any ow i have read about here. when i would show up to pick up my son she would grab him up from the play ground by the arm and start yelling at him "come on you have to go". this of course would start him crying. i would just pick him up and cuddle him and try as best as i could to calm him down.
most always by the time we got in the car he was calm and looking forward to the weekend.

she tried to get him to think of our house as the other place. we just kept on loving him nad it didn't take long for him to view our house as his home also.

we only had an every other weekend visitation schedule also. i am sure that your oc views your house as her home too. she is just to young to relate that to you. but you should be able to see it in her actions and interactions with your family when she is with you. is she at ease? or is she always tense and weepy? is she happy to see you and/or h whichever one of you picks her up? how do your c's react to her? how do they interact with her? what kind of reactions do they have when she goes back to ow? do they spend time making crafty cards and coloring pictures for oc when she is away? do they ask when oc is coming back?

i am not saying this to try and talk you into continued c just relating the fact that you are not alone in that experience and trying to help give you some things to look for to help you make your decision.

kt, C did not start until CS did. It seems everyone was happier before C. It seems like your H and OW both wish NC of OC. Maybe you can make a legal deal with OW. Since she wants NC, agree, if CS is cut in half.

This was just a thought.

How awful for OC to be forced into such treatment by his mother. She sounds very immature.

No matter which way you go on this, I wish the best for both you and hubby. You will survive.

Also, I do not mean to sound so judgmental.

ember

Yes, I agree everyone WAS happier before.

Yes, C did not start until CS did. We did try to "find" OW and OC before CS hearing, although we had already been served papers, it took several months before the actual hearing.

H was at least curious. OW had moved and we had no idea how to contact her. We sent a letter writing "please forward" on it but it came back w/ no forwarding address.

Before the hearing H and I discussed if we should pursue C or not, we decided we would since OW was pursuing CS, we thought this was something OW ALSO wanted.

@ the hearing when we met OW we said we wanted to meet OC and she said yes and to just give her a day to "tell" OC and prepare OC. OW said OC thought OC grandpa was OC "dad".

We had NO idea how to handle all this much less act around OW. I know now we should have just come straight out and ask OW what she wanted but I doubt OW would have even been honest about it. OW says she wants OC to know her father BUT what OW says & what OW does have always been opposite.

I understand exactly what you are saying pops. Only our 3 yo (of the kids)really "cares" about OC when she is gone, and is sometimes sad to see her go but he has gotten used to that part. (1 yo is too young and 11 yo...outta sight, outta mind)

I have mixed feelings about how "healthy" this is for BC. 3yo wakes up and OC is just GONE, because OC goes to outside school and BC are homeschooled, BC are not used to this. H and OC have to leave early to get OC to school on time and usually it is before 3yo wakes up. H doesn't even leave this early for work but I figure BC just have to get used to it right? It's either this or NO time w/ OC.

From the beginning we could see that OC was "confused" how to act when transitioning from one parent to the next and OW did not help. After reading tons of books about divorce and 2 households I came to the conclusion that OC needed a nuetral place to transition from, OW did not like that.

OW said her other child would be hurt if OC left daycare but not her blah blah blah, so OW always "needed" to be there. That limited us because of course then it could only be when OW was getting off work AND that was wierd w/ all of us @ the daycare center.

Finally, the last counselor we saw who could really see what our point was, what we were going through and respected MY role in all this instead of trying to exclude me, (like the courts and different counselor they saw) realized the value of OW (mom) "letting go" and not putting so much pressure on OC to take care of OW well-being.

Do you know what I mean? So that counselor agreed that OC needed a nuetral transitional place (like school or daycare center) WITHOUT mom being there for the p/u & drop off.

OC is an all around happy and outgoing little soul. OW claimed we were seeing OC TOO much and always wanted to cut it back. When we would tell OW that OC acted fine w/ us OW would discount it as that's how OC always is but that OC shows her REAL feelings w/ OW--(that may be true)--that OC did not really want to go w/ us. IF OC said she wanted to go w/ us it was only because we "pressured" OC into saying it!(definately NOT true)

OC acts "fine" w/us. I think some patterns have been established from the beginning, such as going w/ us being perceived as a negative thing. OW said OC would cry and not want to go w/us but when we would come OC looked fine and acted chipper. There were a few occasions that OC would get mad @ us for having to take OC back to OW but OW never believed us.

The last counselor explained it really well that children fully %100 mean it when they say they want to stay w/ 1 parent and they absolutely mean it to the OP as well. The point is they(kids) just don't want to choose but they don't want to go back and forth either, the kids are trying to assert themselves how much they do not like having to go back and forth.

My H and I are reasonable people we already knew this and understood it, OW however just wanted to believe that OC never wanted to go w/ us and we were just forcing OC into something OC did not want and that OC was afraid to hurt us by telling us the "truth" and expressing her "true" feelings so OC was only telling us what we "wanted" to hear. The funny thing is that OC would tell OW (when we were NOT around) that OC wanted to go w/ us and OC would tell us to ask OW for OC because OW was "not listening to her". We would tell OW this but OW did not beleive us and ignored us.

AND pops, like you have mentioned before, about parents making decisions for kids......at first OW would say that OW wanted to "wait" until OC started to ask for herself to spend more time w/ us...leave it up to OC....in OC's "own" time....but as soon as OC started to do that.....OW denied OC, that we were just FORCING OC to say these things.

Man writing all this and thinking back...it feels way longer than just 21 months. It feels like forever.

So it is really hard to know what to do as the "right thing" and so I have to weigh it all together. The deciding factor is what it does to OUR family, marriage and children or rather what OW does to it.

But our decision is what I have already said, we will try this last time w/ another lawyer to make the parenting plan bullet proof and if OW continues to try to go against it or to say things to deliberately hurt us THEN that will be ENOUGH. We feel the decision would not really be ours but OW. She ultimately, by her actions, will decide the fate of OC relationship w/ us.

There comes a time when you just have to say "enough is enough" and we have come to it. This is the last step in the "doing everything we could" journey.

We can't change for BC that we introduced all this madness into their lives so we are trying to fix it the only way we know how.

Believe me you don't have to try and convince me against C. Although the solutions seem simple they are not always easy.

OW has accused us of only pursuing C to lower CS, just like I think she only went after CS for the $$$$ and not for OC to have a father. whatever, it doesn't matter and I think that is a dumb argument anyway.

But my point is I would hate to give OW any reason to say that we have proved her right. Honestly, I want it to be very clear that we have put in %100 effort and in the end did all we absolutely could, w/o a shadow of a doubt.

There is always hope that OW will just give in & accept that we are in OC life and give up trying to push us away. You never know but this way...it is all clear what OW chose and then what we chose and why!

It's funny, on TOW they have the opinion that BS should just "get over it" and C is a condition of staying in the marriage, ok whatever, BUT @ the same time, w/ that arguement, then shouldn't TOW "get over it" and realize that MM staying married and BS as "step-mom" is a condition of C? AND that having your child only %50 of the time is a "condition" of having a child w/ MM or any man for that matter that you are not married to?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ember:
<strong>Maybe you can make a legal deal with OW. Since she wants NC, agree, if CS is cut in half. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yah I have thought of that or some sort of "deal". But NO deal possible since OW is on gov't. assistance.

I think OW was trying to "strike a deal" right before last custody hearing in Oct. That was when I first found this forum.

A week before custody hearing, after everything was in agreement and we all just had to have lawyers sign it and file it, OW started bringing up crap about H signing away his rights and OW said she was ready to take "FULL responsibility" of OC including "financially" and that she would even still "let us" see OC "if we wanted" but if we put on paper that OW had full custody...blah blah blah.

So.....anyways I stopped that discussion because I KNEW it was a legal impossibility AND we already knew OC now, a little too late! OW is just an idiot!

Out of curiosity I did ask her why she never had H sign away his rights in the beginning, BEFORE C, (when OW contacted H to legally change OC name 5 years ago) and then OW could have continued to have full control and never contact us for anything.

OW said that she had a really bad lawyer @ the time and she didn't know anything like that even existed!

I told you OW was an idiot.

I know of many men and women w/ their kids who do not pursue CS because the OP is "leaving them alone" and they don't want to encourage C by pursuing CS. Interesting, I think, because it leaves everyone unprotected either way because the OP can waltz right back in whenever they want and then you are forced to share your child AND still don't have CS set up. IMO (never humble) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

KT said:
It's funny, on TOW they have the opinion that BS should just "get over it" and C is a condition of staying in the marriage, ok whatever, BUT @ the same time, w/ that arguement, then shouldn't TOW "get over it" and realize that MM staying married and BS as "step-mom" is a condition of C? AND that having your child only %50 of the time is a "condition" of having a child w/ MM or any man for that matter that you are not married to?
edited to add that in hopes that all the adults are adult enough to be able to all discuse the kids and there would be no fussing about emails being sent out of line or phone calls. I hope you understood that too. I would expect xh wife/girlfriend could talk to me without making me feel like I'm intruding on there lives, and wise a versa. If the wife does need to talk to me, then have enough respect for me that I am that child's mom. Do I make sense?
Yes it is a condition of contact. I've said that all along here and there. It's just the way it is. Your KT with any man....just not mean mm. A few different things though....I would have xmm wife/family involved, and whatever decisions he made with his wife they are that, but I am the child's bio mother and I'm not one to go through people about my kids. If I email my husband/xh for any reason to do with my kids he better email me or call me back. Not his new wife. But then again, I'd keep it on the kids and not put anything personal or past tense in it. Do you know what I mean without getting into a board war? I'm just that way with my kids.

<small>[ March 21, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]</small>

KT, does oc not have your last name? When did you find out about oc? If you don't mind me asking. I'm assuming it was way before contact happened? Also, if she is on public assistance how the heck can she afford to pay for private school. Your in CA.? right? Your more expensive than us in NV., and I have two jobs and still can't afford it. I wish I could put my kids in private school for the first 3 or 4 years of school, but can't.

A ended upon the news of pg. H and OW never spoke again so H never even knew when OC was born or even if. H ALSO did NOT tell me about A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

OW named OC and gave OC H last name upon birth. 6 months later OW legally contacted H to change OC name,change 1st name AND change last name to OW last name. This was about 5 years ago and that was when I was "informed" by H about A. (not the entire truth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

It was @ this time that H and I separated, H made it clear to OW that he was there if she needed anything, he was "willing to take responsibility", whatever OW wanted. (she did not know we were separated but that I knew) It was at this time that OW declined anything from my H. H agreed to the name change thinking we would never be in OC life now, for sure, anyway.

NOW in our last custody agreement/hearing, OW agreed to reinstate H last name in OC name with a hyphen ("OC 1stname OWname-Hname").

Yes the private school is a big ????. I thought grandpa was paying for the school but I don't know for sure because it was listed on OW expenses in the CS hearing and the DA was stating how DA could NOT ask H to pay for any of it since it was OW choice and judge would just say that OC could go to public.

I think the way OW can afford it IS by having assistance, then that creates less expenses for her out of her own pocket. I don't know all the details.....just know that she gets assistance for both kids and OW only works part time and lives in a ghetto looking apartment.

OW also receives tuition assistance for the school, (OW is only responsible for 2/3 the cost)so it might work for you to look into if any private schools in your area offer something like that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by needtomoveon:
<strong> but I am the child's bio mother and I'm not one to go through people about my kids. If I email my husband/xh for any reason to do with my kids he better email me or call me back. Not his new wife. But then again, I'd keep it on the kids and not put anything personal or past tense in it. Do you know what I mean without getting into a board war? I'm just that way with my kids. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know exactly what you mean. Honestly if H and I were divorced my attitude would be "YOU are their father and SHE is nothing to them or me".....just being honest......BUT that would also be tainted by the fact and attitude that I was FIRST and that new honey was just that--NEW!

The c between H and OW, concerning OC was just that in the beginning, between them and I really did not know how to fit into that equation, I felt very left out and was upset that I was left out but struggled to be mature and adult about it.

After awhile, I could see that some things were unecessary and OW was starting to play the "come visit w/ OC alone" game and "why do you HAVE to bring EVERYONE" game, so I started to get a little more involved. Which eventually led to the inevitable.....cattiness and insults, he said she said crap! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Then with the last counselor including me, that opened a door of communication between OW and myself. (mature communication not just the catfight type LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

AND we limited communication to %90 email to avoid any unnecessary communication off the topic (OC) or anything getting heated. BUT when OW still tried to dig into the past....I stepped in to take over all communication. H hates OW, is sick of OW and can't deal w/ her anymore.

Although I have my negative feelings towards OW for her part in hurting my family, I think I have way more self-control to stick to the topic (OC, and not the past)tehn OW does, and try to have compassion at least with regards to the fact that OW is a mother and a single one and I do try to see OW POV or where OW may be coming from w/ her opinon or antics.

I don't expect OW understanding towards me because OW comments have led me to believe that OW thinks I have it "easy". I would rather OW think that, then know the true depth of my sorrow.

And like OW last email that really flipped me out.....instead of ripping OW head off I can vent here instead. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Oh my gosh KT, what a ordeal. That is what I'm doing with Taylor's name...my maiden name-xmm last name. When my divorce goes through I'm hypenating my maiden and married name for the twins and tayolor's sake. Wow. She waited a long time for that. Basically xmm did not tell his w until forced into it also she knew of nothing either. He too has not told her the whole truth as he called me to tell me what he told her. I don't feel it's my place to tell as I have way to much on my plate right now and either way I would look like the bad guy. So she's a smart lady either she'll figure it out which xmm has already told me the court case will turn ugly and things will come out then, as I had to give my attorney major details in her motion, or she believe him and he'll do it again. Either way it's not my problem...not to sound cruel, but you know what I mean. I don't think I could quailfy for any assistance with my kids school. We have a shared cost of living here and between xh and mine income it won't happen. Plus we have charter schools here that you can try and enroll your kids into. My girlfriend does get a break with her private school for her kids but you have to attend there church and I am not that religion and have been going to the same church for 7 years so that is not an option. KT, all you can do is what your doing. I guess it's just in some people's blood to try and have there cake and eat it too. There is nothing you can do about that. If she can't realize that her actions will affect the oc life there is nothing you can do it about it. I just don't understand when people can't figure out that you have to think of your kids and what is best for them. SO hang in there and hope for the best.

kt,,,,,, kids are an interesting study. i have mentioned that grae goes to her bio dad easily when i am the one to hand her over but should fh try then grace clings to her.

i understand how many bw's feel as now with grace i have been on both sides of the contact issue. although my exgf was not a separation from an A believe me there was no love lost between fh and exgf. when ex told me she was pregnant (another story) we broke up in may of 1974. i met fh in june of 1974 and we became an "item" immediately. ex was constantly giving fh trouble because she wanted me back in her life. we had dated for 6 years to that point.

a couple of interesting stories: the other week while at the baby sitters ( my oldest daughter, princess) she was getting grace ready for om to pick her up. the doorbell rang and princess said that poppy was here. grace ran into the back yard and hid ubder the bbq cover.

then this weekend fh was getting her dressed to go off for visitation and without fh saying a word about who or where she was going grace started saying "no poppy, no poppy". when om's w showed up to pick her up with om's son, grace just clung to fh and didn't want to go.


if ow agreed to school issue would you be willing to continue with visitation? or if ow was not around have you been able to form a bond with oc?

the reason i asked the second question is that once i had formed the bond with my son nothing could have made me give up on a relationship with him. now i realize there were no other children for fh and i to consider at that time either and also that i KNOW it was a different story for fh whether she could have walked away from my son should i have decided to throw in the towel when ex was being such a b*!#%.

I can't see where the OW gets off, saying that the H should talk to her and not the BW. They chose to step off into our lives and should have to deal w/ BW being a say so. As long as everything is kept on the child conversations then they can deal with it. You are the STEP MOM right? It's your house and be honest, most of the time you keep up w/ the OC and feed them, bath them, so why would you not be the one the OW would talk to? If OW didn't want to deal w/ us then they should have disappeared! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'm tired of hearing BW don't have a say, sorry we do. It's our family that they put themselves into. So deal w/ it.

KT,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Although I have my negative feelings towards OW for her part in hurting my family, I think I have way more self-control to stick to the topic (OC, and not the past)tehn OW does, and try to have compassion at least with regards to the fact that OW is a mother and a single one and I do try to see OW POV or where OW may be coming from w/ her opinon or antics.

I don't expect OW understanding towards me because OW comments have led me to believe that OW thinks I have it "easy". I would rather OW think that, then know the true depth of my sorrow.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I admire you so much, for all that you have gone through & are still enduring with OC & OW. You could have washed your hands of this situation long ago & didn't, I pray for you it all works out & OW will get a clue & realize that it is really OC who matters now, not her & her "agenda", she should be happy that you are willing to be the best stepmom you can to OC, but nooooo, gotta play games & act stupid. Like I said OW acts like you asked for this- so you should act accordingly. I can imagine it would not be easy to go NC now after having OC in your lives, but you have to do what is best for you & your family in the end.

I always think that I don't want to get close to my step daughter for that very reason, if & when I do see her on a regular basis, I just don't see OW ever stopping her games, unless some man marries her sorry butt, cuz for now the only H she wants & seems to think she has a shot at is mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

If it turns out that you have to go NC, like you said you can walk away knowing you did everythng possible to have C w/ OC & thay will give you peace.

about that "bonding issue":

I think we, well for sure me, I had more affection for OC in the beginning and was more open to unbiased affection towards OC in the beginning.

I am just being honest here so I hope no one jumps down my throat but.....

Since OW began her games and issues and wanting us to see OC less and less, I know I backed off emotionally from OC. I became just a care taker only doing what I HAD to do to care for her, (bathe her, feed her, wash her clothes ect.) It is hard for me to get back to that place where I can love OC.

I've always kind of had a thing against kids anyway (I used to joke that I did not like kids except my own! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) But everyone says I'm naturally great w/ kids anyway so that is a bit odd.

But anyway, I think I've just distanced myself because of the frustration w/ OW and thinking OW actions will force us out of OC life anyway so....I hold back. I am also afraid that my distaste for OW will come out so I avoid OC so that none of it will rub off on OC.

There are times when we can all relax and let loose---hysterical laughing and my favorite, dancing like a whole ktbunch-o-freaks! And what a great time we had @ the cabin but.....

Then real life creeps in and it is hard to face the challenge. I do hope that OW will be able to get past HER issues and then this could all work out for all of us. I don't expect it to be easy but so what.

I have just come to a point where I can say enough is enough--it's all clear now. I can't change what already has transpired, all the hurt on both sides---but I can prevent any more from happening. That is my take on it.

I am no longer willing to sacrifice any more JUST for OC sake. I am willing to do what I can and if OW is cooperative then that is great but if not....then forget it.

I am not saying OW has to always agree w/ us but I'm am saying that there has to be compromise sometimes. I know OW thinks she has done ALL the compromising because OW "allowed" us to have so much time w/ OC. I guess you can think that way if you want but I disagree. How is there "allowing" when OC IS (as TOW say) my H "flesh & blood". Like OW has done us a favor by allowing H (and us) to have relationship w/OC???

That is another issue between us. We see it as doing all this for OC while OW looks @ it as us inconveniencing OW life and OW is doing us all a favor! That's why things have even come up because OW would say things like, "It doesn't work for me", "it's very inconvenient for me". And that OW has done so much for US. whatever.

Even when we were in counseling the counselor asked each of us what kind of visitation schedule we all wanted. My answer? I don't care as long as we all AGREE. I didn't WANT to spend the next 10 years fighting over this junk!

OW says she agrees w/ us but then weeks or months later----disagrees saying that she never agreed or (her latest)only acted like she agreed.

This is very frustrating. Who can live like that w/ OP going back and forth on stupid stuff? There is no peace that way, no stablility.

So that is where we are I guess. If we can hire this lawyer it will still take a few months at least, to get a hearing date. So we have time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am just being honest here so I hope no one jumps down my throat but.....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would hope no one would, YOU & only YOU know what you have gone through w/ OW. I can see myself being just like you, loving OC from beginning, I already know I would already if I saw her on a regular basis, & I am afraid of that.

I don't consider myself a "kid" person either, that is part of the reason I only had one child but how could I not love a baby & she is part of H, unfortunately part of OW too. I guess if I try really hard I can see her OW's POV as far as not wanting me (stepmom) to be involved in OC's life & feeling that any decisions concerning OC do not include me, but when you decide to have a baby w/ a married man that is the chance you take.

I ask myself often if I really want to deal w/ this for the rest of my life???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Guess I do, otherwise I wouldn't be here!

I believe you are doing the right thing & you have every right to feel the way you do about OC. You are not superwoman afterall, & like you said you will know when enough is enough.

kt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i will never understand your frustration with ow's antics. ex gf used to do so many of the things i read here and more. it was so very frustraing sometimes for me and i probably still don't understand how frustrating it was for fh.

i do understand however how you have backed off from oc. with the frustrations put on you by ow you don't feel secure in any future relationship with oc.

as much as i love grace there is still a difference somehow in the feelings for her and my own bio kids. i think it is the fact that there will always be some doubt about how she will handle all this when she grows older. kind of a self preservation thing to assure that should she choose to move off with her bio dad.

there are also times when i am just laying there with her watching "monsters inc" and i look at her and all i see is om. i have to refocus myself rather quickly or i tend to go backwards in time and feel anger slipping in. but the next minute she is running down the hall with a waffle box on her head saying "daddy where are you" and my heart melts again.

no matter how far along you are in your recovery from this type of dilema there will always be something that kicks it up in your face again.

it is just sad that your ow has to be so stubborn on some of the issues you are dealing with. it sounds like with the right circumstances your family would be able to expand to include oc. it is just to bad that ow is not cooperating.

i know om is upset that i am involved so much with decisions about grace. he wants it to be just he and fh.

on the subject of bs being involved with oc. i know that fh has a problem with om's w. why i am not excatly sure. she thinks that om should always pick her up and drop her off instead of his w. she doesn't want grace going if om is not going to be there. she feels that visitation is for om to be with his daughter. she also knows that om's w has the right to be involved with grace but that it still bothers her. i think it is just a natural mothers fear of anything the can't control when it comes to their kids.

i replied to you about your journal question and i hope it was of some help.

Pops, your reply about the journal was the one i ws looking for. thanks, it helped a lot. I planon getting on that in the next few days. I have a lot of catching up to do w/ OC's so it will take some time.

Why do you think fh gets upset aobut OM's W? And what do you tell fh? Is her attitude the one that is grace is there to visit w/ OM NOT W? What about OM's children (grace's 1/2 siblings)? Are there any?

This is exactly what OW used to say but then we would point out that OC has siblings to hang out w/ and get to know too. OW used to say that I could not p/u OC because it was H responsibility---ok--but then OW would allow other people on her end to p/u OC so we pointed out how it was OW responsibility.

Those are not issues now though since we p/u OC from school and I do most of it because H gets off of work same time as OC school lets out. (unless it the weekday schedule then it is H days off)

Funny, last year, the day my H got stung by the bee....OW would never exchange any day no matter what the reason (usually BC school events) so we didn't even try to ask. So after being released from the hospital we went to get OC but I went to the door myself because H was too weak to walk. (OW lived in the very back of apt. complex)

It was awkward but finally I was like ok lets go and OW insisted on walking w/ me all the way to the car! I was soooo mad. All I could think of was my H almost died today and you (OW) are trying to play games and get upset because H didn't walk to the door himself!!!!! I was insulted that she did not trust me and the last thing on my mind was OC, I had just been through the scare of my life! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Maybe OW and fh think that OM doesn't care if he is not the one doing it all himself.

The first counselor told OW that she needed to get along w/ ME and make this work w/ ME because ("no offense to H") women are detailed oriented and I will naturally be taking on most of the care of OC so OW will get more information from ME, so she told OW to apologize to me (about arguement we had gotten into, I had apologized already when it happened)and get along.

I thought that was good advice and a good point. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

pops,
You wrote:

"on the subject of bs being involved with oc. i know that fh has a problem with om's w. why i am not excatly sure. she thinks that om should always pick her up and drop her off instead of his w. she doesn't want grace going if om is not going to be there. she feels that visitation is for om to be with his daughter. she also knows that om's w has the right to be involved with grace but that it still bothers her. i think it is just a natural mothers fear of anything the can't control when it comes to their kids."

I think you hit the nail on the head. My H’s son’s mother (they were never married) as well as his XW (when she still had custody of their daughter) both wanted just him to be the ONLY one to pick up the kids. In the case of his son, he was working third shift at the time and got off at 7 a.m. He had to pick up the son at 8 a.m. (approx 45 minute drive). Prior to our marriage, we had several hearings to establish a visitation schedule and later for Contempt Motions when she failed to abide by the Court Orders. His son’s mother stated, in Court, that she would rather him drive her son on the road (half asleep) then me be involved in the transporting of him. Their son is almost 13. The judge stated that was ridiculous and stated that H could designate any one responsible to drop off or pick up his son.

In the case of their daughter I could understand her feelings as I was the OW. However, I was included in the parenting plan and my now H also signed over POA to me. The judge that presided over their divorce stated he would not try to place undue burdens on visitations. We have since (very recently) been given temporary custody of their daughter. His XW has 2 weekly visits at her local DFCS office (separate county). I do all the transportation for that as it conflicts with his work schedule.

ktbunch you wrote:
"Why do you think fh gets upset aobut OM's W? And what do you tell fh? Is her attitude the one that is grace is there to visit w/ OM NOT W? What about OM's children (grace's 1/2 siblings)? Are there any?

This is exactly what OW used to say but then we would point out that OC has siblings to hang out w/ and get to know too. OW used to say that I could not p/u OC because it was H responsibility---ok--but then OW would allow other people on her end to p/u OC so we pointed out how it was OW responsibility."

That is also what my H’s XW tried to do. She wanted the parenting plan to state that only H could be the one to have visitation and that he could not designate it to someone else if he had to work etc.

Luckily the judges in our area (south Georgia) are very proactive in trying to eliminate conflict and placing the child’s needs first. They even require a class on it in order to divorce or get a court ordered visitation schedule. tewjtm aka female sargeant @ TOW