Have any of you been in a situation or are in a situation where your children became atached to the op... And actually have a relationship with them, even though the op's and ws's relationship is desolved.


If so how are these visits going, do you find them benifical to your children? And how often does the op spend time with your children, and how is that aranged?

Basicly Im asking what you think is apropriate, and porductive for the children..

I don't feel at this time that cutting her out of there lives is benifical at all, but at the same time I would like to see the atachment level change to more of a friendship, and I feel that can only happen if the time is less then right now..

Also the ow is the mother of my step daughter and I would like to think her and the kids can be close with out it being weird for me.. As I hope my h's and my relationship grows even more so that when the baby is on bottles I can have a real relationship with her and become her real step mom and not just have that title becouse of a peice of paper...

Anyway, any sugestions , coments, etc, apreciated, becouse now is such a confusing time with there relationship over, us seperated, but kinda together, and of course all the conections, and intricities involved with raising emotionaly sound children... whew! My mind is raising with the "what if" facter as our situation is extreamly complicated at the moment...

How can you have it all? A close great friendship etc, with your spouse, open comunication etc.. Well adjusted children that feel people aren't disposiable, a close sibling relationship even though theres two mothers, and the ow involved with the kids becouse that relationship is emotionaly benificial to her out of love... How can every thing balance itself out, so our children get the best and our relationship has a chance to florish with out me being upset through us figureing this all out...

Personaly I feel that my h spending time with her and the kids together , even though he wants to keep the friendship with her for the babys sake and of course there friendship conection, is not sending the right message to her, and is going to eventualy confuse my children, becouse that will feel like "family" time, and of course will prevent me from feeling like I want to partisipate in our relationship... But my h at the moment needs space and time to figure himself out and feel he's making the best desisions for him.

I need objective sugestions, as I'm too close to the situation.


Thank you.

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: *allofme* ]</small>

My kids are attached to XMM. They have known him all their lives. When Xmm comes by to see the 2 oc, the other 3 kids are out their playing with him also. There are times when Xmm will take a few extra kids with him when he takes the 2. All the kids call him Papa.

I honestly don't know how to feel in this situation. Its a mess that I created and don't know how to handle things or what is proper. I'm just trying to do what I feel is in the best intrest of the children at the moment.


As for H doing things on his own with her, family time as you said, I think it depends if he has told her straight out his thoughts on it. Xmm has told me before when I was with a few times for the park that he felt like a family. I didn't feel that way, in fact for me it was weird. I told him that we are not a family. It came to the point where he couldn't accept it so I seized going along with all the kids to the park/McDonald trips.

<small>[ April 04, 2004, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Crazymum ]</small>

Crazymum, thank you for your post , Im sorry you still don't know how to feel or what to do.. I guess we are in the same boat so to speek..

If I may, can I ask how your h handles your xmm with the kids, and also how you feel about his wife being in your childrens life...

how are things aranged, etc... If you don't mind..

I have the same thread going on the general questions 2 forum, and it got kinda nasty there. Im glad to see Im not the only one that feels it's best for the kids...

Please wright back to me...

thank you..

allofme: I want to say I comend you on your thoughts over this. I wish you and your h all the best of luck rebuilding your marriage. You seem to be able to handle this and hopefully the ow will be mature and think of the kids as well and not play games with you and h and let you rebuild your marriage. IMHO it's up the adults to make it work...all of the adults. You can be a great stepmother to that child and maybe sitting down with the adults and setting the boundries would be a great place to start. I'm the xow who just had a baby with xmm, so I can't give you the advise that some of the other bs can that are going through this. As well, xmm wants nc with my daughter. But good luck with this and I'm sure this week other ladies will help you with advise.

Needtomoveon,

Thank you for your post.. That's how I feel it's up to the adults to make this work.. Who really knows what will happen, shoot were only in our baby stages of our relationship.. I have know Idia how things will go in the future with anything...

Im sorry the xmm wants no contact with your child, that makes me very sad.... And truthfuly I think it's selfish when the bs, (although it's painful) demands that nc be inforsed inorder to protect there marriage... But of course xmm could either be strong and go against it, or conform...

I feel for you and Im sorry.....

(sigh) Oh, puh-leeze.

Catnip,

Care to alaborate on your sigh?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by *allofme*:
[QB]And truthfuly I think it's selfish when the bs, (although it's painful) demands that nc be inforsed inorder to protect there marriage... But of course xmm could either be strong and go against it, or conform...

=^^= to elaborate....the BW's here have had OW's inferring that BW are "selfish" to request NC to take the time necessary to rebuild their marriages after an A since the inception of this site, and frankly, I grow weary of OW telling the "victims" (BW) of THEIR selfishness when the BW are the ones whose lives are destroyed by someone else's selfishness. It just seems so incredibly bizarre to me that ANYONE would remotely suggest the BW sacrifice her need and desire to protect her own children and marriage for any OC. I mean, it just seems so amazingly brazen and nervy for any OW to expect a woman (or man) who has been beaten senseless emotionally to buck up and absorb the fallout without any resistence whatever. And if they don't...they are called selfish! Stunning. Absolutely stunning. It would be preposterously hilarious if it weren't so damn sad.

I guess as long as this site is up and running, we will continue to get a new batch of OW expecting the BW to absorb the hits, suck it up that their lives have been changed forever without their consent and without a thought of how all this effects the BW and BC. But since your'e new, I don't expect you to fully understand the dynamics of all this yet.

Whatever your plight, I wish you well.


Edited for crappy sentence structure and lousy spelling.

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Im sorry the xmm wants no contact with your child, that makes me very sad.... And truthfuly I think it's selfish when the bs, (although it's painful) demands that nc be inforsed inorder to protect there marriage... But of course xmm could either be strong and go against it, or conform... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I find that really funny as in our case, it was decided that there was to be no contact before I even found out.

My husband made that choice.
He chose to cheat.
He chose to give the baby up for adoption, ex-ow didn't want that. They couldn't agree on what was best so he chose NC.

I, for one, am glad he did as it enabled us to get back on track, work on our marriage and keep a disruptive and vindicative ex-ow out of the way.

There is no one size fits all in this situation.
I hope you find a solution that works best for you.

Twiisty

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And truthfuly I think it's selfish when the bs, (although it's painful) demands that nc be inforsed inorder to protect there marriage... But of course xmm could either be strong and go against it, or conform...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*allofme*
I am curious. WHY is it selfish to want to keep your marriage in tact? Why is it NOT selfish for the OW to try to 'cement' her place in a MM's life, regardless of if there is an OC or not?

I do not feel that the BW is selfish. I believe that the MM and OW were selfish and caused this situation to take place in the first place.

We do have contact. We now have Primary Custody and the Contact with OW is through me only.
Had she been a stable, intelligent person... capable of really caring for her child... then I, too, would be considered a "selfish, bitter BW" because I would have insisted on NC or would have ended my marriage.

She had no rights to my husband and he had no right to bring this into our lives. BUT, it has happened and we are making the best of the situation.

As Twiisty said, No one answer covers each situation. Its not "textbook" as there are barely any books out there that cover Recovering from an Affair that produces a child.

I hope you find what works best for you and your marriage.

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Stacia_Lee ]</small>

Im sorry I offended so many of you, I really didn't mean too...

That is my opinon, you need not defend yourselves to me..

Im obviously a bs, and to feel there actions were unbelivably selfish....


But I belive children need to come first, and that means before the marriage aswell..

The ow in my situation , planned this pregnancy, she was very selfish, and obviously my h was too.. But what is in the past is in the past...

And regardless if our marriage fails or thrives, I have a lot of respect for my h for being there for his new daughter in every way.....


I realize theres no text book sulution for every situation.. Mine never seemed to fit well into the lables etc... And Im understanding to many people, even ow's, (perhaps not the one in my situation as much,becouse she is unbalanced). People make poor choices in there lives, and yes there choices effect others deeply...

We each have our own idiea about what selfishness is etc.. And that was my opinon, it doesn't mean that I wouldnt' be sensitive to anyone elses situation even if I didn't agree personaly with there choices.

I don't belive in abortion, but it doesn't mean I couldn't identify with someones emotional turmoal or how they got to the point where they made that desission....

Sorry my opinon offended some...

best of luck..

because you feel the child should come first is not offensive but the idea that any BS should disrupt her family WILLINGLY and unbegrudgeingly (is that a word?) IS offensive.

The stereo-typical OW says that BW are bitter and demand NC. That may be for a "stereo-typical" BW.

I have yet to meet one here. We all care for children which is why BW fight so hard to protect thiers! It is not hypocritical as stereotypical OW also like to claim, as much as it is hypocritical of OW not caring about BC while having sex w/ MM then when OW is pg expecting the entire world has to start revolving around OW's OC!

allofme wrote:How can you have it all? A close great friendship etc, with your spouse, open comunication etc.. Well adjusted children that feel people aren't disposiable, a close sibling relationship even though theres two mothers, and the ow involved with the kids becouse that relationship is emotionaly benificial to her out of love... How can every thing balance itself out, so our children get the best and our relationship has a chance to florish with out me being upset through us figureing this all out...
********
you can't! This is not normal which is why everyone struggles w/ it and it is so hard to make it work!!!!! Why would you NOT be upset? Your H BETRAYED you and made things even more complicated by producing a child thus now betraying your own children!!! Things will NEVER balance themselves out.

For the rest of your lives together or apart, H will have to take responsibility. Financially and emotionally. There is no balance. If you are together that financial support will come out of your budget, the emotioanl support will come out of time spent w/ you and your kids.

Personaly I feel that my h spending time with her and the kids together , even though he wants to keep the friendship with her for the babys sake and of course there friendship conection, is not sending the right message to her, and is going to eventualy confuse my children, becouse that will feel like "family" time, and of course will prevent me from feeling like I want to partisipate in our relationship... But my h at the moment needs space and time to figure himself out and feel he's making the best desisions for him.
*****
You are admitting and answering your own questions as to why this is so hard for you to understand. BECAUSE IT IS NOT NORMAL.

I think you are denying some of your own feeligns and anger about this and hiding behind your concern for OC and "keeping the peace".

Why is that? No one here has ever said it is an easy decision for a MM and BS to make. Like twiisty, my H made the NC choice before OC was even born and before I ever knew about it. Then when he knew of OC birth he and OW made that choice again. Later, H and I made a choice together for C.

A BW has her own family and children to think about it. Are you thinking of yours?

It is not normal and like you said, could give OW the wrong idea. Why wouldn't it give the wrong idea? Think about it. What idea did you have while H was playing house w/ you but having sex w/ OW? I bet you had the wrong idea of how your relationship was going right? We ALL did!

Why are you denying the WRONGNESS of this situation and trying to deny how upsetting this may be to you by trying to figure out way to make it appear ok and right and trying to convince yourself.

It's ok to be raging mad @ this situation and the unfairness of it all.
It's unfair to YOU.
It's unfair to BC.
It's unfair to OC.
YES IT IS!

Now, in your situation, NC is not really an option. Go ahead and get mad @ that! You don't even have a choice in this matter. That sucks! Your H is acting like he has 2 wives!!!

I understand that H can't walk away from this situation in any way since he has another child from OW. OK.

But you need to admit your feelings and let them out. It seems like you are trying to be something that you THINK you SHOULD be. This will not be healthy for you.

You need to let it out and then you and h can move on and begin to heal. You need to admit that this was a raw deal you got.

Don't try to pretend that it will all just be Ok and work itself out. IT won't.
You guys will have to work it out and set guidelines and boundaries.

Your kids have the very potential to learn that vows don't mean crap! IT only matters what YOU want @ the time, doesn't matter who or what it is as long as you are getting what you want and are happy. And that there are no consequences and that a good wife puts all her feelings aside and lets herself get run over and it's all OK!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

IS this what you want them to learn from H? from you?

Set up a visitation schedule. There will be NO "family time"! H family is w/ YOU and only YOU. OC can have "visitation" w/ H and this will include YOU NOT OW. That is a consequence.

Everyone has consequences. There is no perfect scenario. Your fantasy of the perfect happy family w/ unscarred children is gone. It has been shattered for ALL of US but we pick up the pieces and BUILD NEW DREAMS! You can do that too.

I'm sorry but I think there are some things here that you are NOT FACING.

This will only hurt you more in the long run if you do not face it.

Now I hope I have not offended you but I am only telling you what I see, my impression that I have gotten out of your posts here.

Don't be scared away. I am not easily offended and if I am reading you wrong then I welcome your correction.

Sigh. Here we go again. Why would you think there is anything remotely normal about this? No matter what you do, this is not normal.

As for the ow/oc, their wishes and needs do not and never will come before the needs of the wife and the children of the marriage. Why should they?

As for the wife "demanding" no contact. Why not? If that is what the wife wants, and the husband agrees, it really is none of the ow business. Why should the wife and her children be expected to alter their morals and their happiness to accomodate this mess they did not create. Everyone gets a piece of the hurt pie, oc is just one of many who get to feel it. The needs of the oc mean nothing to me at all. The only children that I need to worry about and to raise are my own. If my husband had wanted contact, then we would have had a huge issue to work out. I would not have stayed in the marriage had he wanted contact. Your assumption that the BW is somehow the one in the wrong is simple minded and weak.

May I ask you, where is your backbone? Your husband and ow wreak havoc all over and your only concern is for the oc?? Where do you say what YOU want? What is best for YOU?

As for sitting down with the ow as ADULTS? That is simply the dumbest thing I have ever read. Did the ow give you a call and ask if it was ok to have sex with your husband? Sorry, if the ow was so full of care and concern, as and adult, for the well being of the children already here, she would not be finding herself pregnant.

I disagree 100% with ever giving the ow so much as a fleeting thought, beyond writing the child support check. What a crock.

Guys I was raging mad! I was hurt , I was destroyed.. I filed for devorice, after I asked my h to move out! We fought with eachother constantly about our own children and the fact that I didn't feel the children should go over there for visitation, untill the roles, and situation was clean cut... After the devorice... There were batles, tears shed every day.. Many mixed emotions... Anger becouse my children would be enevibaly efected by this, and might have a misconstrued reality of marriage, of comitment. I was afraid they would look at there father differently, feel jelouse of the oc, etc... And of course there was jelousy.. Jelousy because I was only mother of his children, jelousy that she would be giving him a new child and I would not, jelousy that the children would veiw there life there as fun family time... And for awhile it was like that, they hated comeing over to my house, wanted that life...

When the baby was born , I had to send my children off for the day becouse I was ready to explode with all of the conflicting feelings I was haveing... I felt love for a child I never had layed eyes on yet... Anger tward the ow for planing this pregnancy, without my h knowing, and robing the choice from him and putting my children in a position that will confuse them enevidibly at some point... I felt jelouse that he was in the delivery room with her, supporting her, but proud at the same time becouse he was being a good man..

We are not sure what were doing yet with us, which is why there are no plans at the moment to move back in with eachother.. We will probably need years apart if we are to ever have a helthy relationship again, and that might include finalizing the devorice. We are seeing where this is going...

Im not setting any boundries for him , that's the whole point, we both need breathing room.. If he continues to make choices I can't live with then I dont' have too, and our marriage will end..

I know this is not a normal situation, of course it's not.. But I'm trying to figure out how to make more then the best of it and stay possitive, that's my choice... I will try my hardest to raise the children with the same moral structure we did prior to all of this, Im not sure if it will work, I don't know what will.. I never asked for the affair to happen, or the pregnancy.. But it did... And it has to be for some sort of reason..

I have grown alot as a person through this strugle, it has been a long one belive me, and a hard one... Im not angry anymore.. I spent years being angry well before the affair started and Im not wasting anymore of my life being angry.. I take each day, by day and figure out how I feel about things...

This situation is something at the moment that Im choosing to be involved in.. And the only reason being that my h and I have takeing great strides in our friendship primarily and possibly building a strong foundation on a better healther relationship...

I would not literaly sit down with the ow, I do not like her for more reasons then you would care to know, most are not becouse she had an affair with my h, ironicly enough.. I agreed with the other poster that the adults need to figure things out.. Me and my h, and my h and her.. Not all of us together..

I have let my anger out, I am beyond that, and every time I start thinking about everything I could be mad about for the rest of my life, I stop and start thinking about something else.. I have to or I would go insain..

And Im not thinking of the ow in any way shape or form, I mentioned that it was benifishial to her simply becouse at this moment I don't feel like there is an alterior motive for her wanting to see our children... I might be wrong though? I give her no curtisisy, she discusts me... This is all about the kids...

I want lots of things that we are not ready for, and truthfuly wouldn't feel right yet.. For one, I couldn't live with all of this in my home.. I comend those of you that have and are.. I am gratful that we are seperated and I can say to my h, you need to figure out how you want to handle things.. I make sugestions of course, but he can take them or leave them.. And the pressure is of of me to "make" this relationship work.. I don't want to "make" it work, I want what ever is real, if that means we shouldn't be together so be it, if we are able to work it out great..... We did the quick fixes over and over and I feel that has done more damage to our children then him incorperating them in the ow's life prmaturly... I need space, and the ability to walk away if im not ok... And so does he...

Regardless we are raising our children together, adn they have a half sibling.. And I wanted to hear from others that were in the same boat.. Maybe get sugestions, or hear horror stories, or things to be leary of.. How did you make things work, why didn't they etc... What ever you think would help...

Me being on the defencive is not helping.. I've made my choices.. It hasn't been easy, shoot on another board I posted on for a long time, I think I was the most lost one in the bunch.. A new delema every day... And here to about a year ago... I have surched and found a peace from me, and a streangh that I didn't have before.. A shureness of myself and my indiviguality.. And that is why maybe I think I can handle this relationship even after all of this, maybe that's why I've found forgivness I never knew I had, maybe that's also why I could let go and be ok... Im not afraid of being alone anymore, and I choose not to dwell on all of the bad in my life.. Theres no way of changeing the past.. And for that matter, even though it's been the most horible experiance for me, I have grown from it a better person, a more spiritual person, and I am grateful..


" Your assumption that the BW is somehow the one in the wrong is simple minded and weak. "

Im a betrayed wife, come again? I wasn't talking about anyones situation in perticulare, I personaly do feel that all the children including the oc need to be thought of.. And everyone can choose what ever they want, a bs can choose to stay or go, the ws can choose contact or not.. Whatever.. But regardless if I could ever except the oc into my life(which I do with open arms,and it pains me that Im not a part of her life), I would be disaponted if my h didn't... That's just me, and obviously Im not the norm.. And that's ok with me...

It's not like im not facing all the what ifs, I am , and it's scary , so I live in the now.. At this time things look good, but long run I do not feel it will work out, I hope it does, but I'm not blind.. Things would have to be very different , and much time would have to pass, or situations altered by my h's own vilition, for me to feel at ease, and say with confidince , were in recovery.. We are not, we are at the beginging, and not of even recovery, becouse with that comes a sence of secureity or knowing that both has chosen eachother again. But I love him deeply, and I see him in a different light then before, and Im proud of him in many ways, I had to let go of the past, and stay focused on the present.. The now, is very differnt, and I have to rimind myself of this often...

Sorry I struck many nearves.. I know everyone hear has made hard desisions..

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: *allofme* ]</small>

allofme...

While I disagree with your reasoning, I respect your right to feel these things. If it works for you, then that's great. More power to you. You'll have no argument from me.

One thing I would like to address though, is where you stated that you might need years apart to get your marriage or relationship back together and I just wanted to offer you a word of warning....it is extremely rare for anyone to fix a marriage if you do not live in the same house and have daily interaction and live your lives together experiencing all the joys and sorrows, the good, the bad and the ugly. You'll lose that connection, that involvement that is so crucial to sharing/bonding within a marriage. Couple that with your complacency and you might as well just head off into the sunset creating your new life by yourself. This is Marirage Builders and I am assuming you're here because you want to save your marriage...not end it. Just my obsevation and opinion.

I truly wish you well and I hope that you get some counseling to help you with what seem to be some pretty far-fetched and misguided notions that could ultimately be your undoing...and that of the kids. And I do not mean this in a nasty or disparaging manner in any way...I am just kind of alarmed to see someone take such a fatalist attitude when so much is at stake.

I think it is noble for you to have this abnormal pull towards OC and your desire to care for OC is admirable. But, OC will have his own mother, aunts, uncles, grandparents and perhaps other sibs and relatives and you being in the mix might make it confusing and weird for OC and OW's family. It might be healthier for you to forget all about OC and just concentrate on yourself and your kids and let the others take care of their people. It might help you and your husband determine whether or not reconciliation will work for the two of you without all this distraction of OW/OC. If you do not set boundaries, there will eventually be nothing to set boundaries for. It sounds like it is your choice and you are choosing to do absolutely nothing aond let the chips fall where they may....it's a weird thing to see a woman abdicate her power and I wonder about your motives...like...are you subconscieously hoping your husband will leave for good? Just musing here. Anyway, good luck to you.

And, I don't think you've offended anyone...we are used to intense debate here at MB and this is all this is...it takes a lot more than a disagreement of opinion to send us all into a frenzy. Don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings. We are all here to speak our mind or how else would any of us learn anything?

Catnip =^^=

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]</small>

I agree with Cat.

I do feel sorry for you. You seem to want to do what is "right" for the oc, not really thinking what it is that YOU want or need. What it is that is best for YOUR children.

You need to really think this out and look at all the angles. OW wants to see YOUR kids? Did I read that right? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for her to even look at your children let alone speak to them.

I hope you can find peace at some point. But please remember, your husband and ow created this mess, it is not up to you or your children to make it right.

I don't see how getting on her for her desision on what is going on is right. Its her life and just like everyone else her its her choice to decied what to do.

the one problem with living in the NOW and saying that you cannot change the past is that, that attitude assures that history will repeat itself.

if we never try and correct the problems that have occured in our lives we will live them over and over.

what's with the deal that ow can be involved in your kids lives and have influence on them but you are not allowed to be around oc even when you are with YOUR h?

<small>[ April 07, 2004, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Crazymum:
[QB] I don't see how getting on her for her desision on what is going on is right. Its her life and just like everyone else her its her choice to decied what to do.

=^^= No one is "getting on her", Crazymum. In my post I told her that while I don't agree with her decisions to abdicate/comply whatever, I respect her decisions and she'll get no argument from me, followed with warnings and alarm bells...for her to look at the flip side in case she wasn't aware of the pitfalls.

My crystal ball is out of the shop...it's just what I see.

ok I think I'm starting to get it now. I will respond on private.