Kris , please, especially w/ OW talk of filing for Cs----please remember to do this yourself, for yourself and your kids. In most states, whoever files first, will get the biggest % of support and if you and your H do not get a divorce great and then you have secured more income stays in the home.

Albany, this is also a good time for you to file a legal separation. Call H bluff, take some control of the situation. You do not have to sit around waiting on H to make up his merry mind.

If you feel like he is starting to play you then you do the job yourself. File legal seperation, everything is in place, legally. Then if H wants a divorce--HE can do it himself. And you and son are protected.

Maybe this will make H realize what it will be like and I think you need to set some clearer boundaries.

Come on, H says hurtful things then calls back asking "what's wrong?" He knows d@%M well what's wrong and he is in denial about it.

He is disrespecting you BIG time and right now you are letting him. He leaves whenever he wants, gets to avoid any serious issues, gets to put in no effort towards marriage BUT he still gets all the perks of being married!!??? huh???

He gets to come and go as he pleases, use the shower, take a nap, get SF....uh hello??? Set boundaries woman. Stand up for yourself.

Either he is done and starts living like it or he is committed to making this marriage work. And part of ending the marriage is that his son will now only get to "visit" him. That is a consequence, I'm sorry but it is. It is not because you have failed it is because your H is acting like an @$$ and he is choosing this.

Maybe you need to go into plan B. HE can still see your son and you can have NC w/ him. We do it w/ OW so you can do it w/ H.

Be strong and stand up for yourself, have some self-respect and dignity. You are not a doormat so stop acting like one.

I think you should tell everyone. Your H has had absolutely NO consequences for his actions so why should he move back home? HE has nothing to lose right now because he still has it ALL. You should tell your parents and his parents that you guys are struggling right now in your marriage, you are trying to work through it but need their support and tell them why you are struggling---because H had an A AND OW is pg. TELL THEM. You need to have a support system in your home & around you right now. Don't you trust your family?

Are you afraid they will turn their backs on you and on him? Most parents don't. Will they be hurt for you, yes but parents have a great capacity to forgive and know about unconditional love. Maybe one of them can talk some sense into him.

Well, that's my "3" cents, for what it's worth.

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

Dear, sweet ((((albany)))),

I know I've said this before, but it is time for Plan B. Don't skip ahead to divorce without doing this step first.

He has sat on the fence far too long. Also, continued contact, while he has not made up his mind, is killing the love you have for him. Plan B will help to preserve it.

It's a risky move, but it's necessary. You may receive the desired outcome or you may not, but at least you will have tried. You will have an answer, instead of this daily heartache of uncertainties.

He already doesn't live with you, so that particular logistic of Plan B is already solved. If you need help with a Plan B letter--let me know, I can give you an outline.

Hang on albany--we're pulling for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

~ad

Albany,

KT & AD gave you some pretty good advice, as far as taking legal steps & possibly doing a plan B, maybe that is what your H needs to snap him back into reality. He has been on the fence a long time.

Doing both of those things would at least give you security for your son & stop the daily pain of his visits & calls. It is a hard choice to make but what else can you do at this point? As AD said plan B will allow you to perserve the love you have for your H. Going on like you are there will most likely be more LBing on your part & it will take its toll. From what I see Plan B is not about giving up but saving yourself from any more pain & giving both of you the chance to experience not being in each others lives & it will open both your eyes to whether or not you want to save your M.

I just don't get H--but do you guys think he comes over because he has nothing better to do--that he doesn't really care for me.

Why won't he just go and file again????

Also remind me what I'm hanging on for or why--doesn't seem like their is much left now??? Why the hot and cold from H?? Too many questions already if I was asking H all of these things.

love to hear from you guys again.

Albany

so tell me is the 180 and plan B fairly similair--I have a hard time even doing some of the things on 180--like not asking where he is or what he is doing or has been or is planning to--probably comes from a trust issue I have now with him.

also have an extremely hard time acting indifferent towards him--have a harder time when it is like this--the more he pulls away the more I try and pull him back and pressure him--I think that may be human nature or at least it is my nature.

Albany

Well here is my sorry update, if I can call it that. H finally read over the contract we both wrote out & told me he wanted to make a revision to his portion stating that I never bring up the affair or baby again, duh how can I not mention the baby ever again if we are together & he has visitation. He claimed all my stipulations in the contract were already in the works, they are not. So he signed nothing, neither did I. I am not waiting for his revisions either.

I am pulling out my plan B ltr. again. I may just have the locks changed, put his stuff out & see what happens. I am so tired, & yes any love I still feel for him is dying daily, I can't believe how selfish & cruel he is being to me. I have told him over & over if he doesn't want to try to make our M work then leave, I am ok w/ that at this point, but he refuses & works on nothing. I wish I could run away but I can't.

Oh & to add insult to injury he is now accusing me on cheating on him, maybe cuz he is still cheating on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Actually I take that back I am not insulted or injured by his paranoia. It would serve him right if I did cheat, his ego couldn't handle it, I already know that. I just know I can't keep this up, it is a joke, & I am ready to move on w/ or w/out him.

I'm so sorry for you--I guess you are left with no alternative. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I'm very mad for you and very <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> for me.

You are much stronger than me I think.

I pray for you--anymore thoguhts for me or as me you are probably at such a loss that it is hard to give much advice.

Albany

Albany,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just don't get H--but do you guys think he comes over because he has nothing better to do--that he doesn't really care for me.

Why won't he just go and file again????</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Seriously I think your H is just playing the game that you allow him to play, I don't doubt he loves you & spends time cuz he wants to, but also to make sure no one else spends time. He won't file cuz that is not what he wants, he may need you to take legal action to wake him up! As long as he knows you are waiting for him he will keep saying he doesn't know what he wants, I think he is like my H, he wants it ALL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

He wants you to be there for him if & when he decides to come home, but he wants the freedom to live alone, come & go as he pleases, not answer any questions.

The 180's are really hard to do. I have tried to do them w/ H in the house & it is hard. For me plan B would be so much better right now, then I won't wonder what he is doing or who. I will a little, but I will know he wont be coming in late, or breaking his word to me anymore & all that goes with that.

Do you really want to continue to live like you are now? Think about it, the worst that can happen is you end up getting a D. That pain will end eventually but to live in limbo land you are giving your H all the power to decide your future, that is not right.

Doing a 180 is more conducive to Plan A. Plan B is absolutely NC, except for (generally) emergencies and financial matters, (and then those usually go through a 3rd party--such as your folks or his).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just don't get H--but do you guys think he comes over because he has nothing better to do--that he doesn't really care for me.

Why won't he just go and file again????
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he's doing this back and forth game because he doesn't know what the hell he wants. He seems to only want the M on his terms, ie: not wanting to discuss difficult topics. Right now he is being a cake eater. Plan B will put a stop to that. He will no longer have it both ways. In Plan B there will be clear cut boundries that you will set up in the PBL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also remind me what I'm hanging on for or why--doesn't seem like their is much left now??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For your M. For your little boy.

The fact there isn't much left now is just one of the many reasons you must go to Plan B. I believe it is your only hope at this point.

If Plan A is becoming more and more difficult for you to maintain, and it's not moving your H to commit to the M--it's another sign it's time for Plan B.

If I'm not strong enough to manage Plan A or a 180 how I'm I ever going to do Plan B.

I'm only most successful at the others when I have the ball more in my hands--things are going well and I feel comfortable being indifferent but when he upsets my applecart I can't stop the urge to call and want, want, want from him.

Somehow if I can get the ball back get him more playing into my hands again instead of me playing into his then I think if I work real hard I can maintain--but I don't see any hope right now--the ball is so out of my court.

What do I do at this point?? To put it quite bluntly--I'm scared ****less to lose him and the marriage and Pla n B seems so hard without much reassurance going into it. this being tired and working on this sinch last June almost a year has really taken a toll on me and worn me out--made me mentally exhausted.

Albany

Babygirl--

I wish I could help you or give you at least a big hug. So I have sent you a hug via this message--you give me hope and inspiration.

I still feel like giving up today though. I love him and our family so much but I'm so empty inside right now that I don't think that I'm capable right now of offering anything.

Sunnydale--would love an update from you.

Albany

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I'm not strong enough to manage Plan A or a 180 how I'm I ever going to do Plan B. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B is difficult yes, because neither of you can have contact with each other, but I think once you get into it, you will find much relief. You will miss him, but you won't miss the crap he's been putting you through. You can do this albany--can you think of a better plan? Can you keep doing what you're doing with no committment from him?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm only most successful at the others when I have the ball more in my hands--things are going well and I feel comfortable being indifferent but when he upsets my applecart I can't stop the urge to call and want, want, want from him.

Somehow if I can get the ball back get him more playing into my hands again instead of me playing into his then I think if I work real hard I can maintain--but I don't see any hope right now--the ball is so out of my court. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Albany, the ball will be in your hands! You and only you will set up the guidelines of the Plan B. It's not up for discussion nor POJA. There will be very strict perimeters, (which btw, one of the definitions of perimeter is: "a line or strip bounding or protecting an area "--in this case, you, your M and your love for him)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do I do at this point?? To put it quite bluntly--I'm scared ****less to lose him and the marriage and Pla n B seems so hard without much reassurance going into it. this being tired and working on this sinch last June almost a year has really taken a toll on me and worn me out--made me mentally exhausted.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't blame you for being scared "****less"--like I said before, Plan B is risky, but honestly, what have you got to lose except for, (at best), a part time H who won't commit?

If you've been working on this since last June, Plan B is long overdue. Yes, Plan A should be fully exhausted before moving to Plan B--good Lord, don't you think you've done that? In the words of Dr. Phil, "How's that been workin' for ya?" and "You're burnin' daylight, girl!"

The mental exhaustion can end in Plan B because there will be no contact, hence no string pulling by him.

There are lots of us here who will be of support to you while you do a Plan B. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

~ad
ps. How is it OC is due in June if A ended last June, or is it a typo?

Albany,

Thank you for the hug. I am pulling for you & your M too, please know that. I don't want to see you have to do the PBL route but what is the alternative? It is so hard when you love your H & want your M to work & your family to stay together.

Only you know what you can handle right now, but sweetie I know what it is like to be emotionally drained, that is exactly where I am right now. When you have reached that point, that you can go on unless something changes be it positive or negative you will know. As my pastor always says, "when you get sick & tired of being sick & tired" you will know & do something about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are much stronger than me I think.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No not at all, you have made it through a year of this & still have your right mind right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> This situation may have taken many a woman over the edge but not you. You are stronger than you know, I found that out about myself too.

I wish I could say something more encouraging to you but you have to use your common sense & then follow your heart at this point I think. God will give you strength for whatever path you chose.

Autumnday--

affairs starteed on those dates--ended in mid-October 2004--got pregnant near the end of it or it isn't his.

He was pleasant today--when talked about son.

Babygirl & Autmnday

This is how I'm starting Plan B--slowly. Today I may or may not see him. He is working OT tonight--normally cal him around 9:00pm and tell him to have a good night--I will not do that and tomorrow he should be sleeping for the most part. I will not call and see if he wants to pick son up--I will just do it and then Thursday he starts his 4 day shift and I can avoid contact easily, no offering left overs for his lunch etc.--he won't last he will call always has.

I'm feeling stronger now and I thin I can make sure he gives in and calls or at least has the ball taken away.

Do you usually tell them about Plan B or just kinda of do it without telling them about it--I'm unsure of that part of it--I don't think that he would do it knowing about it.

Anyway I'm hanging in there.

Plan B will give youback the control youwnat while allowing you the space to regain yoruenergy and self-respect and love for your H and your marriage.

JUST DO IT!

What are you waiting for? If youa re afraid of losing him then this will keep you from LBing him and pushing him away any further.

Are you saying that you are so scared that youwould rather allow him to disrespect you and continue to keep you in limbo land then to actually make a choice? You are so afraid of losing him that you will put up w/ him treating youlike crap?

Come on albany, you are a big girl, you can do this and you must do this to save your marriage, your strength, your sanity and your love.

AND you must file a legal seperation and get CS set up ASAP. Unless the laws for CS are different in you state or something.

You need to set some boundaries.

Your son needs a FULL time dad not this instability that H is currently excercising. Your son needs to know that dad will either be there or will have a scheduled time, no more of htis dropping in and out whenenver H feels like playing house!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Either he wants to work on the marriage or he doesn't! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! By not "choosing", he has made a choice, he doesn't want to be married so give him what he wants, a legal separation w/ some clear cut boundaries!

That sounds like a start at least, get your mind set into thinking that you may have to cut contact w/ him. But he won't let that happen, he will for sure notice that you aren't calling or making time to see him & most likely call you more or try to come by more. I think he likes this set up a lot.

If & when you decide to PBL you will hopefully have a 3rd party to arrange p/u & d/o for your son, otherwise it won't truly be a PB. In my case I wrote the letter gave to H, didnt' explain that it was a plan to help me perserve my love for him, just basically stated I can no longer live with him under the current circumstances & I wanted him to leave.

In my case I also added that he needed to do a NC ltr. to OW unless there was an emergency w/ OC since I know he won't stop seeing his daughter, he should not be continuing any type of contact w/ her other than to d/o or p/u the baby.

I also told him that I wanted our M to work, even though I no longer wanted to live w/ him & when he had broken contact w/ OW & was ready to come back to me totally committed to working on us to let me know. But for my peace of mind I needed him to live elsewhere.

Since you are already separated, that part is out of the way. I wish I had done this while my H lived w/ OW, maybe this would all be over by now. Oh well that train has left the station.

I pray this works for you, hang in there, I know it is hard.

THANKS

I'm trying I will think about telling him that eventually--as far as want it to work but need space and want it work when you are ready--but not right now

When talked today I said I love you and want this to work and do not want to argue. He ju answered okay ot everything--it good for him to stew over all this right now while he working--and doesn't have left overs and all the convenience's that he would have if he was allowed to come around. In fact the next time he comes over to stay I think that I might okay will have to tell him to go home.

albany~

Plan B is not something you filly fart around with. It's not something you start out slowly with, to see if he will give in. This is serious business, and he needs to know once and for all--you mean business!!

You need to have a clear cut plan of action. You have to have a "go between person" set up before hand. Yes, you tell him you are going into a Plan B, and you do that by way of the PBL, (Plan B letter). Don't worry if he would do it willingly or not. He no longer has a choice! You are taking control. You are setting the perimeters.

Ok, this is what most people say the PBL should convey.

1. That you love him.
2. That you want to remain married.
3. Your apologies for your part in bringng the marriage to the state it is. Also that you are learning how to make a relationship better and take into account his feelings with all your actions.
4. You have to cut off all contact because of the pain of his actions, (or rather, inactions in this situation). Also, because of the pain, you need to do this in order to preserve the love you still have for him.
5. Make it crystal clear there is to be NO contact, other than situations of an emergency, (and let him know in the letter who the go between person will be)
6. You will agree to contact again when he makes up his mind and wants to come back to you full time and ready to work on reconciliation with you.
7. That you love him. (Yes begin and end the letter with letting him know you love him)

Also, let me add--you do NOT give this letter to him personally. The last time you see him BEFORE him receiving the letter is the LAST CONTACT you should have.

Albany, I urge you, you cannot do any sort of modified Plan B. I've read over and over again, how it does NOT work. You're the one who absolutely can NOT GIVE IN...not till he is ready to step up to the plate and give you his 100% assurance he wants to restore the marriage, and that includes moving back in with you.

If you do Plan B the right way, you will finally have your answer. Either he is ready to move on WITH you, or he can move on without you. You will be putting the ball in his court--but albany, you will be in charge--he can no longer walk on you.

***edited because chalk fall of mistakes--too big of a stinkin' hurry!!***

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

You should definitely tell him no more over nite visits. He chose to live alone, so let him, another step in going toward PB. He needs to realize that you are not going to keep playing this game with him, & he needs to make a choice & stop prolonging this mess HE helped create.

Be strong, do what you have to do for YOU & your son. You can't make him want to work on your M, he will in his own time, but I hate to see you continue in this current situation.

I never thought I would have to strength to write my PBL but I found it, so will you. You have been w/ your H 11 yrs. total, so have I. That is a long time to invest in a relationship & M, & all those yrs. are not to be taken lightly, I know I don't but who is to say these men won't try & drag this out another 11 yrs! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You owe it to yourself & your son to take positive steps toward repairing the damage done to your M, even if that means PB.

Okay well I'm not yet ready to do Plan B and maybe I won't have to--I need a few days to gather my thoughts and get use to the whole idea. This past summer we did Plan B basically except we stil some when not necessary and we did not have a go between--so it was not a true Plan B I gues according to you--what about just trying a 180--whenever I start that but I haven't worked at sticking to it--it has helped a lot even for both of us -- a lot for me I feel revived.

Honestly--I'm not ready yet for Plan B but zi work towards it--I think he knows almost too much that I care--probably be better if I didn't tell him so much.

Autmnday--don't get me wrong I love your advice and all that but honestly not quite ready for PB.

Maybe soon--I just want someone to wave the magical wand--and really is it worth trying PB is their really any signs in anything I have said that make you think PB will work for this H. Maybe I should give up now and be done.