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#837382 11/18/04 06:29 PM
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Does anyone have an opinion on Dr. Phil's recommendation that Ed have contact with his OC?

#837383 11/18/04 06:38 PM
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I agree with Dr. Phil. Ed is the father and it is not the child's fault. It didn't ask to be brought into this situation.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#837384 11/18/04 06:49 PM
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I know i am of the minority on this board which is why I rarely post but i beleive what dr phil said is 100% correct, he should be a father to the child

#837385 11/18/04 07:19 PM
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whatif you really should post more.
How's it going? Nice to see you here as I was talking about you in another MB area that is secured.

I think it is absoloutly an enormous assumption to think that a bs could possibly come to terms with "mothering" an other womans child....especially the way these kids come about.

To do so fosters pain, resentment, fear of H coming together with ow again...especially a concern when the first thing to sever an affair is no contact.

Don't forget....with an oc...contact metaphorically is never done... CS increases come with about every change of the moon... so it is preposterous to think a bs can and will accept an oc....no matter how long they have been married.

It has been 4 long years for H and I, with the exception of Stacia, whatif (who never really gave us any info on her and her H), amy2, and pops and momof5, it never really mends the marriage to have contact...ever.
Reading here since 2000...very few succeeded in C.

We have had NC since early 2001.

Except for ow coming back for more cs (big as# trigger) we never think about it...honestly...much easier to heal and try to move on.

Harleys advice by phone counseling....

All oldies who tried are now divorced...or their H were still LYING about ow/oc.
Whatif....how about a lengthly update? Perhaps you can help?

Why be afraid? Over 4 years for you too, right?

I'll watch,,,, I need to leave for good now as staying here is no longer good for my recovery...

So long MB and friends...need to move on....no longer recognize anyone here.....except for jenny.....

Best blessings and thanks..I'll check this thread for whatif's reply.

whatif, you know I think Dr. Phil is a big blow bag, dontcha? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I followed his crap during my H's A and according to his rules shoulda left b4 I knew what was up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh! Well.
Bless all my friends...good wine ,good love, and goodwill to all.
My Mom has ALS (lou gehrigs)and it's taking all my time................................

Hey I'm cookin the bird this year and after almost 31 years with H...well some days I could crack him upside the head.....most days...love love love..
Peace....Imagine....John Lennon....Bye...BYE ~sniff~~~
Debi

#837386 11/18/04 08:42 PM
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gemini,

The child should be without it's father?? How fair is that to a baby that didn't ask for it's mother to get pregnant by a man married to someone else.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#837387 11/18/04 09:07 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mitzi:
<strong> gemini,

The child should be without it's father?? How fair is that to a baby that didn't ask for it's mother to get pregnant by a man married to someone else.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A child without a father? Yes it's been done. And that is the choice a woman makes, when she decides to have the baby of a married man.

If a woman wants a father for her baby, she should seek out a fully available man.

#837388 11/18/04 11:49 PM
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I know I am in the minority....but so far so good for us having contact. I firmly believe that my H fathered a child and he should step up to the plate and be a FATHER.
I love my OC like my own. She is a wonderful little girl. It's been rough at times and yes..H and I have had arguments over boundary issues. But it can be done.
I have forgiven my H and OC. (though she does tend to get on my nerves at times) If I can't move past this and get on with MY life, what does that say about me as a christian and a role model for my children? I am very open about my situation. I have pics of OC on my desk right along with my children. If people ask if they are my children I say yes.
If they push....I'm upfront about the situation. Not to air my dirty laundry but why hide it? OC is a part of my life now. A part of my FAMILY.
Just the other night my H made the comment about OW being a "whore". I asked him, "and what does that make you?".
There is enough of the blame pie to go around. Everyone gets a slice, eats it, and goes on. Life is too short. I want to be happy. I want to love my husband and ALL my children.
ent

#837389 11/19/04 06:31 AM
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Gardenbunny,

Yes, I understand about kids not having fathers. My kids have a father that lived with them for 10 years and will not acknowledge them. Doesn't even act at all like they are his.

And I agree, the OW made the wrong choice, as did D23b. But just because it has been done before, does that make it right? If my H had an affair and got a woman pregnant, I would have no respect for him if he didn't have contact with the child.

It takes a strong woman to be accepting of the OC, and I think if both M23b and D23B work really hard, mom is strong enough to do just that!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#837390 11/19/04 08:20 AM
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Mitzi,

Is this a choice you've had to make? I also "prefer" that all children have fathers, and in an ideal world..they would. In an ideal world, fathers would be faithful and only have their children when they can live with the mothers of those children. But the world isn't perfect and sometimes, NC truly is the best choice. Why? Because oftentimes the conflict created by these situations is so traumatic on the existing family and children, that contact destroys even more lives and impacts even more children. Some people can manage contact successfully...and when they can, I think it's wonderful...but there are some really destructive OWs out there that make this situation untenable and impossible for the primary relationship. Your statement is a generalization...and a desctructive one for some of the ladies here who have had to choose differently. The choice to go to NC is not done out of revenge, or hate for a child...but out of the desperation of trying to save their own families and keep their own children safe from the chaos created in these situations. To make a blanket statement that it is always the right thing without intimately understanding how damaging these situations can be...is disrespectful and narrow minded. Live this experience, then come and tell folks how to handle it. You might be one of the lucky ones who can preserve your marriage, and provide comfort for this innocent child...but then you might also be unlucky enough to have a situation that rips your life to shreds with a stalking OW who uses that child to manipulate and keep your family in pain and turmoil to the point where there are no longer a good choice available. No one wants to penalize a child....but sometimes that's the only way to end the chaos and protect your own children.

#837391 11/19/04 10:42 AM
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I totally and 100% disagree with Dr. Phil.

I believe strongly that my childrens happiness and our future would not be compromised by the presence of a mistake. I was not going to subject my children, at young ages to he nasty reality of the cold harsh world. My husband made a mistake, no need to disrupt our family and feelings for the wishes/needs of one. My children were innocent too.

As for Dr. Phil? He can be a bit of a know it all. Heck he is all in support of the ow who was teaching her children to lie about the MM/dad in court; she was caught and they took the children away from this deranged psychopath. And Dr. Phil feels sorry for HER? That pretty much sums up how stupid he can be.

So I would go toe to toe with him on the contact issue. My children and their needs and wishes superecede those of the oc. MY wishes and needs supercede the needs/wishes of oc. If my husband wanted contact with the oc, he would have lost is wife and kids on a day to day basis. He and the ow created that environement for oc to grow up in, not me and not our children.

#837392 11/19/04 10:46 AM
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Mitzi posted: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If my H had an affair and got a woman pregnant, I would have no respect for him if he didn't have contact with the child.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ohhh,,ok. So you don't actually have an OC in your life. This is the way you think you would feel IF you were in this situation.

Well, we all know what happens to those noble preconceived notions when we are actually forced to walk in those shoes...

#837393 11/19/04 11:36 AM
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I’ve answered the father/OC question a few times in my 4 years here….and my opinion really hasn’t changed. I’m all for the ideals, but I have to deal in reality. Maybe the world will change in my lifetime and maybe it won’t. In the meantime, I have an obligation to prepare my child for adulthood. I have to do that with whatever I have at my disposal. I have to act. I have to teach. I have to nurture. I have to live my life. Rarely do I wonder about the fairness of it all. The bottom line? I KNEW when I chose to keep my child that his father was otherwise committed. I also KNEW that it was a gamble. I KNEW what the potential outcomes could be. So, to cry about the unfairness of a situation that I had a hand in creating, is so pointless and unhealthy for me. I live my life by accountability. I accept and take full responsibility for whatever I played any part of, and move on. No matter what. I cannot sit here and point the finger at someone else for not doing what is right, when I KNEW that this could be the result and moved forward anyway.

Contact or no contact depends on the abilities of the adults, to cope with a very hard situation. Some folks can and some can’t. End of story. Who am I to tell anyone what their limits are? What do I do? Tell them to suck it up ‘cause it’s the right thing to do? At what expense to them? When does their happiness, sanity, and overall psychological health become important? What right do I have to ask someone else to sacrifice their happiness for the sake of MY child (referring to BS)? Sorry guys, but I knew the score. I made a FULLY informed decision and I knew there would be consequences. I knew the world would not bend to my wishes. I am but one woman. How selfish would it be for be to expect or DEMAND that someone else set aside what they want and need (again, referring to BS), just to acquiesce to me and fulfill my desires for my son to have his father. I do not point a finger at or place blame on the BS for doing what she needs to do to protect herself, her marriage and her family. Those are HER responsibilities and she has every right. Jonas (OC) is MY responsibility. As for xMM, he has to live with his decisions…right or wrong, good or bad.

I am human and I have my limits….just like EVERYONE else. What one can handle, another may not be able to. It doesn’t make them a bad person and it doesn’t make them wrong. So, knowing that xMM may or may not play a role in my son’s life, I had my baby and am enjoying every moment with a, now 4 years old, wonderful little boy. In an ideal world, his father would be here to help raise him and be a bigger part of his life. But in REALITY, mommy’s here, doing everything she can to raise him right and give him a good life. I don’t have time or desire to dwell on whether it’s fair or not. It gives me heartburn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope I didn't sound harsh. I've been around the block a few times with this one and have developed a no-nonsense, matter of fact attitude about it. It is what it is. (shrugging shoulders)

OB1

#837394 11/19/04 11:38 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My children and their needs and wishes superecede those of the oc. MY wishes and needs supercede the needs/wishes of oc. If my husband wanted contact with the oc, he would have lost is wife and kids on a day to day basis. He and the ow created that environement for oc to grow up in, not me and not our children. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES LYNN-- THIS IS THE DILLEMA FOR xMM AND xBS.... Am I as the BW or H as the xMM, supposed to now bow out of our family of 5-- for one OC?? No life is more important in God's eyes-- I get that-- and EVERY child deserves a father-- I AGREE-- but--

What is my husband (or me) to do--- decide FOR THE OC's SAKE- to expose this to our children and ruin my boys' expectations and role model view of their father, break their hearts and spirits-- show them by example of dad- what to do when they get older-- and BREAK up the family.. ALL THIS cause OC needs a father? I feel VERY strongly based on LOTS AND LOTS of help and information, that I MUST PROTECT MY CHILDREN from this Springer show unfolding.

So-- what it comes down to for the MM is this--- he must either "trade" a family of 5 that has existed for years, and in fact he HURT BAD, but LOVES AND WANTS like h*ll... FOR OC'S SAKE... OR

have NO CONTACT with OC to protect HIMSELF, his wife and CHILDREN from further irreparable harm. Having contact means years and years of shame for my children and me, problems, tears, hurt, etc... and guess what- many many marriages can survive the long healing process of infidelity-- but a CHILD involved- breaks the camels back more times than not, if there is contact. I cannot and will not take that risk.

Now, on the "send H on his way- this is his fault" yadda yadda crap.. WELL- sorry I dont want to give up my H for OC's sake. I am happy now and we are living our life and God has forgiven H and so must I. I want him still and it works for me and my family.

THEREFORE OC cannot have a father. Its hard, it sucks, its horrid ALL- including the innocent ones involved like my kids and OC. Frankly, my husband doesn't know OC because at this point in his life- the child means very little to him when compared to losing OC or losing W and children he is raising already. Hard to face.

PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE.... WEAR CONDOMS.

#837395 11/19/04 11:45 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell them to suck it up ‘cause it’s the right thing to do? At what expense to them? When does their happiness, sanity, and overall psychological health become important? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">YES, that is what the STOW are all crying for us to do!! AMAZING how they can SLEEP WITH A MM AND CREATE A LIFE FROM THAT-- and THEN cry for US to suck it up now that there is a child? I mean-- lets just "DROP IT" when it comes to how unbelievably wrong and immature the OW and MM acts as LONG AS THEIR hearts desire.. but WE MUST BE BETTER all NOW and SUPER DUPER MATURE AND ALL LOVING CREATURES? (the BS)... ??? HUH???? MAKES NO SENSE.

I mean...babies are precious, yes, but so is my life and my childrens' lives---OW should have KNOWN HER LIFE WAS PRECIOUS TOO, and THEREFORE, not allow a MM to sleep w/her - under any circumstance or PROMISE!!!

everyone goes to separate corners and lick wounds now.. and move on

obratti-- you are doing just that-- and for your past you will be forgiven-- and for your future- you and your child will do great with this understanding! KUDOS TO YOU.

<small>[ November 19, 2004, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

#837396 11/20/04 12:16 AM
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The fact of the matter is, as has been said too many times to count, EACH SITUATION IS UNIQUE!!!! You cannot tell everyone that it is the "right" thing to do, especially when in certain cases it could be the furthest thing from "right"! There are some cases, like mine, where if the xOM/MM knew of the OC there would never be peace, and possibly harm could come to any of my family members. Of course, there are some here who have looked down on my situation, as if I were the one causing the harm by not telling. All I have to say to that, and this has been said too many times to count as well, don't judge what you haven't experienced personally. It's not a fun thing to fear for your life or that of your H, especially when you can't prove that this psycho person is stalking you!

In some cases, contact has worked, in some, it has not worked. You need to truly examine what you, your M, and your family can handle and make an educated decision. You are the only one who has to live with that choice, and how it affects you personally.

I have recently begun posting again to this forum, but also agree with Gem, in that this board HAS changed, and at times pulls me down from my recovery. All this talk about being mature adults, and the majority of the posters here are trying to get the most painful digs into eachother, no matter WHAT "title" in this painful situation you wear. No wonder some only come and post a couple times, and then never come back. I liked it when we were actually trying to help others with the MB principles, instead of our own gut feelings that are coming from pain! Let's get back to that type of help and stop the judgemental crap!

So, do I agree with the statement that no matter what, the WH should ALWAYS have contact with the OC? No, it should ALWAYS be a case to case basis, and the decision made between the H and W! As OB1 said, she knew what she was doing when she decided to keep Jonas, and she is a big girl and can handle her choice. If the xOW has a problem with the H and W choosing to have NC, then she needs to suck it up and go on with her life! I do, however, believe that the WH SHOULD pay CS, but with the children of the M taken into account(especially if said kids were there FIRST!). That, in many cases, is what is best for the OC and the children of the M. Why shuffle the OC back and forth for the rest of his/her life, sometimes ending up hating the children of the M because they have their Mommy and Daddy, where the OC only has Daddy every other weekend, and 6 weeks during the summer. No matter what choice is made, unfortunately the children will end up hurt in one way or the other.

Ok, now stepping down from my soap box. Hope if you've read this far, I have made sense.

Tigger

#837397 11/20/04 12:21 AM
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Hello All,

I disagree with Dr. Phil as well,now, based on my experience with my own situation, and what I have been thru. Yes OC is innocent, but if OW was really all that concerned about what kind of father her child would have, she wouldn't of gotten pregnant by a MM who is not fully available for the job, as earlier post said....by no means am I taking the MM off the hook for his role in this.

A little story...my H has had contact with OC for 5 years....mind u I said, my H, not me....he chose to deal with the situation on his own (against my wishes)...allowing the OW to run the show so to speak & and because OW didn't want me around OC...I of course said to my H, this is your child, and u mean to tell me that as your wife, I am not suppose to be involved, but u want our kids to meet...NOT!!!!! If I am not to meet OW & OC before hand, then I am dam sure not dragging my children into this. (I met OC when she was about 9 mths old,1 time only, only because my H picked her up from her grandmothers house and brought her to me...OW was furious when she found out.) Finally after many arguments and a whole lot of stress, I said u know what, since u (H) don't want me to meet OC and be a part of this situation, and OW doesn't want me to meet OC, then I don't want to be reminded about OC, or hear anything about it...as far as I am concerned right now, it doesn't exist...and that was that. Well later found out that the reason why H didn't want me to have contact with OW was because he was still messing around with her. Apparently, her demands got bigger and bigger, and my H came to me and confessed everything about continuing A with OW...he ended it by saying that he knows that he must severe all ties with OW & OC...he said he feels bad about the OC, but, he is doing this for his own sanity ( not for me ) because he is the one who created this mess in the first place.

Now, finally, I guess we will be able to work on our marriage...it has been 5 years of a living hell...even though I didn't want to be involved, OW made sure she dug the knife deeper every chance she got harrassing me, calling me at work ( don't ask how she got my number...she made it her business to know everything about me...and I blame my H for that),oh so many trifling things she put me and my family thru...I don't think u all could handle some of the things I could tell u that she has done to disrespect me, my H, and my marriage. My H finally realized on his own that he could not continue to live this double life...so he made the decision. Now I thought to myself, the OC doesn't deserve this, but I am keeping my mouth shut because this is H decision, and I am not going to be the one to tell him that he should do otherwise, because as u can see, it didn't work, and continuing an A w/OW didn't help the situation. It won't work. Period. If he thinks he is still going to be married to me, and continue his charade, I am not going to deal with that anymore, now that I know the truth, and I told my H that. He said he is going to legally make NC his decision. That's that.

So u see, I can say that he, my H, tried to be a part of OC's life, however, the demands of the OW were just to much for MR. HAVE HIS CAKE AND EAT IT TOO, finally!!!! I am glad that he alone, came to this decision, without anymore input from me. Sometimes u have to let people figure things out on their own to in order to get to the place they need to be. My H has his own guilt and feelings to deal with regarding his deception to our marriage.

Take care all.

#837398 11/20/04 12:28 AM
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Every vengeful, angry OW should read Obratti's response over and over until it makes sense.

Obratti your a class act! And I mean that. What a smart woman you are.

Imagine being so pissed at your OC dad, that you that poor little guy cry into his cell phone.

I wish they could all be like you.

#837399 11/20/04 12:32 AM
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Hello Ohbratti,

I agree with post above, u r a class act...u have taken ownership of your situation.

Wish more OW were like u...wish there were no OW's , but such is life (just a joke, but oh so true!). We all need to move on.

Good Luck Ohbratti, and take care of Jonas.

#837400 11/19/04 11:04 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by giovanna123:

PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE.... WEAR CONDOMS. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I laughed soooo HARD when I read this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You're a pistol!!!

Pep

#837401 11/20/04 09:09 AM
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Wow...I didn't realize that I'm disrespectful or narrow minded! Seriously, if you knew me, you would know that I'm not.

No, I haven't had to deal with this type of situation and I sympathize with all of you that have. But I still stand by MY OPINION. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or condemn any of you ladies if that's not what you choose. It is just my opinion...what I feel could be done and be good for all involved.

And nor do I have any "noble preconceived notions" about what I "think" I would do. My first marriage ended when my H had an affair and decided to leave. I wanted the marriage in tact, no matter what. Even if it meant knowing I would be getting my butt kicked (literally) by that man for the rest of my life. If I endured abuse for the sake of my marriage, I know I would have done anything else to keep my marriage. But he chose not to work on anything.

So, if you were offended by my opinion, I apologize.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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