</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That's it, I am convinced you do not have a mean bone in your body Kimmy lol.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">((((((BIG OL'SNORT)))))

You havn't heard the very horrible curses I've wished upon OWs stupid lousy head.....but only after I was nice to her and she bit me in the butt....lmao! Now, I hope she gets hit by a bus....shhhhhh. Don't tell. Not very Christian and the like. I also wish she'd come down with a horrible case of boils on her rear, making it very hard to sit down, and excessivly not-attractive to anyone of the opposite sex...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I could go on...

Oh, and you DO know what my screen name means, right? It's Gaelic for butterfly - but it has a double meaning. It also means God's Fire.

I am constantly evolving - we all are. I am constantly becoming more beautiful - inside.

If you had not been cheated on, you would not be saying this. I believe your saying this, because like Kimmy you kind of paint the ugly picture alittle bit better because it happened to you. That's just like saying we have it in us to kill, try drugs,yada yada. Doesn't mean we are going to do it.

First......I didn't know there was a way to paint this any better. LOL Let me know how & I will.

I say 'this' because I have realized that I am not 'above' doing anything. Yes, I believe I'm capable of murder, no it does not mean I will go out & do it. I am fully capable of cheating on my H as well, I just haven't done it yet. (not that I'm planning anything) There are things I used to say I'd NEVER do.....& I ended up doing them---THAT'S when I quit saying, "I would never..." and it was waaaaay before my H's A.

But you guys don't really understand where I am coming from. What could a 22 year old possibly know about life right.

We know more about where you are coming from than you think because we ahve ALREADY been there. You, of course know more about YOU & your situation but we ahve been 22, have been married, blah blah blah blah.

No, we don't know it all. I wish....am I repeating myself? sorry.

But there is some wisdom that comes w/ age......& experience. And I'm not saying that I even know more than you just becuase I am older either.....but there are a few experiences that you have just not encountered yet. But it's not about age but that is part of it.

If I had NO kids.......I'd listen to you becuase you would have more experience there. kwim?

All we are saying is that things are not always black & white. I remember thinking it was. I coudl practically prove it (all that black & white logic)------then guess what----grey was smeared all over my world & I couldn't escape. I tried to add black & tried to add white & it just continued to get more grey! LOL

I still believe most things are black & white & I am very uncomfortable in a world w/ shades of grey......but they are still there.

I think that is how you think by what you have written. That is my impression.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
ooo
xxx
kt

VERY good analogy, KT!

I'm swimming thru grey some days!

All we are saying is that things are not always black & white. I remember thinking it was. I coudl practically prove it (all that black & white logic)------then guess what----grey was smeared all over my world & I couldn't escape. I tried to add black & tried to add white & it just continued to get more grey! LOL

Kt: You got that from the TOW board didn't you? Lol. I've seen some of your posts over there, and I saw one where they were talking about gray shades and what not. I go read over there just to further torture myself about people in this world, but I am staying away from there now, it starts to depress me.

uh...no I did not get it from TOW. Must have missed that thread/post. I am haven't read over there for some time. That place is TOO much grey for me! LOL

No actually, I figured that one out all by myself. Our marriage group was reading this book on communication & it went through the different personality types & H & I were pretty well-balanced on all the different aspects of it EXCEPT the thinker/feeler type.

I am totally %90 a 'thinker', so much so, I always say I should have been born a vulcan! LOL So that was what got me to thinking about black-white-grey.

My H is a total FEELER--so we conflict sometimes but reading about it & the personality actually being described in a book-I felt validated. LOL

Helped us understand where each other was coming from. Sorry for the TJ here.

sincerely,
kt


It's the most wonderful time of the year!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I always say I should have been born a vulcan! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me too. I often wonder if my parents had my ears lopped off.

I'm much too logical for my own good, sometimes.

Dealn-de wrote:

I'm much too logical for my own good, sometimes.

Don't you mean your logical unless it concerns your husband, cause staying with a man who had two OC with his mistress and thinking it won't happen again isn't logical thinking.

Hey have you read Lemonman's story on general questions? You ought to. It's good , there is a comment on page 4 by "Trix" quoting lemonman about forgiving infidelity, and what it says about yourself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thinking it won't happen again isn't logical thinking.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't remember saying anywhere that I thought it couldn't or won't happen again. There is always that chance. I trust no one where infidelity is concerned.

There is also there very distinct possiblity that if it does happen again, dwh will loose everything he holds dear, too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hey have you read Lemonman's story on general questions? You ought to. It's good , there is a comment on page 4 by "Trix" quoting lemonman about forgiving infidelity, and what it says about yourself.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Already ahead of you. Read them all this morning.

XAX,

What does your inability to accept that Dealan has a right to be different from Lemonman, you, me, or anyone else say about you? Lack of tolerance for the uniqueness of others who think and choose differently from ourselves has a name. For some reason you continue to find it necessary to doggedly point out what you see as a "flaw" in her thinking....when you have made choices that could be called equally foolish. Things don't happen in a vacuum. The things that happened to you happened in the context of your life....and were a response to all sorts of complex feelings and occurences as well as what your state of mind and coping skills. How would you feel if people hounded you about what they think you OUGHT to do or should have done when they weren't living your life? Do you really think it's any different from Dealan? Lemonman is Lemonman, you're you, she is who she is. You aren't living her life and she isn't living yours. It would be different if your posts were helpful rather than judgemental....if you actually appeared to care about her. But they don't. They seemed designed to shame her for her choices. why?

First I will respond to Delean-de:

I don't remember saying anywhere that I thought it couldn't or won't happen again. There is always that chance. I trust no one where infidelity is concerned.

Yes this is true, you didn't say that, but I guess for the life of me I still can't understand why you would give your husband another chance once you know OC #2 was on it's way. Again, it doesn't matter if I understand or not I am of no importance to your life, just a face behind the computer screen, but sometimes the choices that people make just baffle the hell out of me especially when it comes to cheating. Before you give me the depression mumbo jumbo and the forgiveness part, can you honestly, honestly say you are living your life to the fullest with that monster and spawn of your husbands affair lurking in the closet. I know you have to be on gaurd or worried constantly. Like I said I know I have only dipped my toe into the kind of pool you've been thrown into but my goodness the little that I went through hurt really really bad, and while I am recovered, the scars are still there.

Now Starfish:

Lack of tolerance for the uniqueness of others who think and choose differently from ourselves has a name.

Well then why can't you see that I have my own set of views as well? I think I'm being unique by saying things like "Oh sure I think your marriage is going to be a success story" or "hang in there, your marriage will make it" I just like to tell it like I see it.

It would be different if your posts were helpful rather than judgemental....if you actually appeared to care about her. But they don't. They seemed designed to shame her for her choices. why

My purpose is not to shame Delean-de, and in my own way I do think I am being helpful, whether she does anything or not, my words and along with everyone elses will run across her mind. I'm just an honest person who doesn't like to sugarcoat things. I don't think I'm being judgmental, as much as you don't think your being defensive.

typo:

Well then why can't you see that I have my own set of views as well? I think I'm being unique by saying things like "Oh sure I think your marriage is going to be a success story" or "hang in there, your marriage will make it" I just like to tell it like I see it.

I meant to put being unique by not saying things like....

I'm just going to let kimmy keep melting you with kindness and maybe you'll realize that no one here gives the kind of advice you just mentioned:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "Oh sure I think your marriage is going to be a success story" or "hang in there, your marriage will make it" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know of no one here...who has made the above claims....in fact just the opposite. She has fielded these same concerns from almost everyone...though most were expressed more compassionately out of respect for her and her own right to choose.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> spawn of your husbands </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OMG! You ARE being sarcastic, right? They are not some evil beings...they are chidren - who deserve all the love and guidance the world can give them. If you saw them at a daycare or in school would you want to help them less if you knew their origins?

How small your world is if you would.

Hi Angel,

The rest of the world tells us to walk away from our M's and to "just throw the bum out". This is Marriage Builders, where the decision and choice to stay in or work on our M's are supported--no matter how extreme anybody else finds the situation.

It's one thing to question and maybe challenge another poster's choices. It's quite another to call a WS a monster and to refer to the OC as spawn. Dealan-de has made it clear that she loves those two children--and she doesn't keep them in any closet. Your words and overall tone have become more and more insulting and confrontational.

I just like to tell it like I see it. I'm just an honest person who doesn't like to sugarcoat things.

Okay, me too!--You're coming across as a boor with a point to prove, at Dealan's expense.You've asked, she's answered. You don't like her answers--she knows. Why keep at it?

Jenny

Alright! It's time to call a kings x!

Thank you for your staunch support everyone. Star is correct, it IS my decision. It is something that I question frequently and am constantly weighing the pros and cons of.

Angel, thank you for your concern. I do appreciate it. I understand why you made the decisions you did. I also understand that you cannot fathom living in my situation. Perhaps it's a good thing God let me have it instead of you. Maybe not. It's a hard burden...and it's mine by choice right now. Period.

- Kimmy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Dealan-de:
<strong> Alright! It's time to call a kings x!

Thank you for your staunch support everyone. Star is correct, it IS my decision. It is something that I question frequently and am constantly weighing the pros and cons of.

Angel, thank you for your concern. I do appreciate it. I understand why you made the decisions you did. I also understand that you cannot fathom living in my situation. Perhaps it's a good thing God let me have it instead of you. Maybe not. It's a hard burden...and it's mine by choice right now. Period.

- Kimmy </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Kimmy!!

I am no wiser or smarter than anyone, but I have been around these boards a long time. I just want to tell you that you have class. Of course, since you are a Texan, that is no surprise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Goodness, you guys like to twist what I say. Let me reiterate what I said.

with that monster and spawn of your husbands affair lurking in the closet.

Ok obviously I was not calling Kimmy's husband a monster, notice the word monster and husband in the same sentence, if I meant he was a monster I wouldn't of put husband. I said the monster of her husbands affair, it's more like an analogy. I put spawn just to add a little more fuel to my wording I suppose, but if I meant it in a bad way I would of put spawn of the devil which I didn't. Capiche? I love all little children, no matter how they got in this world.

I live in a small world? I most certainly do not think so. Yes there are all sorts of scenarios and exceptions in life, but there is also the obvious and logical. I admit I may be a bit more negative in this area than most, but if we all felt alike, then this world would be very bleak. I harbor no ill will towards anyone here, I just like to say what's on my mind, as I get no hard feelings when you guy's don't like something that I said. Perhaps in some way we are broadening each other's horizons.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Perhaps in some way we are broadening each other's horizons.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if I broadened yours, but mine spans far more than you imagine. I do understand the whys and hows of your questioning, but believe me, I've been asked the same queries far too many times....most of all I've asked them of myself. Please understand, tho, you are beating a dead horse. I've made my decisions. I reserve the right to change my mind. But I will do so under no duress or because of the world's views of what's right and wrong. The world isn't living my life, I am. I am the judge and jury on whether I want to end my relationship or stay the course.

I hope I answered whatever questions you had even though I'm pretty certian that you will always scratch your head and wonder "why????" or "how????" about my life's story.

Thank you John. That was sweet.

I reserve the right to change my mind. But I will do so under no duress or because of the world's views of what's right and wrong.

Your right, I'm the same way. When I make decisions, I don't make them just because other people want me to but I do take into account what they are saying and sometimes it will influence me. But I suppose also you are on this board to seek advice along with most other people on this board. For example you guys probably see me as a person who won't forgive cheating again (done it before with the ex) and kind of blunt. I am firm on my own views now, but this last Friday I caught myself double guessing myself over in another topic, I asked gingersnap what advice she would give me seeing how she forgave her husband (my ex sounds similar to hers). The point is I'm pretty dead-set on not getting back with my ex ever, but by reading all these forgiving stories and what not, I had myself doubting myself, (this is where my "influence" story was going) Anyhow, I got over it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and I'm sticking to my guns.

I probably will be scratching my head over the how's and why's of your story, but I also know some questions have no answers. My scratch has been itched though. Ciao.