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#855548 03/16/00 12:17 PM
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Hi Jill,<P>I'm so sorry that you're stuck in this place. It must be very difficult not truly knowing what to do. Not telling would definitely be the easiest route to take, considering the chance of some hefty consequences. But, I worry about your emotional well-being and the well-being of your marriage as a whole. As someone mentioned, that guilt might just become an enormous wedge between the two of you, which might drive you further apart. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen in your case, though. And I'm sure you've heard all of this before, so I won't preach. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>What I'd like to ask you, is if you plan on speaking to Dr. Harley again? I know your pastor gave you advice contrary to what Dr. Harley believes, but I wonder if you're not just sticking with the pastoral advice because it might have been what you wanted to hear. I, too, agree that pastors and the like should have some psychology training before they give such a definitive answer as to what you should do with your marriage. Of course I know better than to delve any further than that into religion on this board. So, I'll leave it at my recommendation of speaking to Dr. Harley. He's a strong Christian and may be able to speak objectively about what your Pastor said, after all, Dr. Harley is a Christian first. Just don't give up because one person told you the answer you "may" have wanted to hear. <P>If you're still not comfortable with your decision, then get more opinions, as in reading books, more forums, etc. Just don't stick with this one because it's the safest route. Please! <P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller<BR>

#855549 03/17/00 01:10 AM
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Sorry operator error today!!!!!!11<p>[This message has been edited by NeverAgain (edited March 16, 2000).]

#855550 03/17/00 01:26 AM
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Jill,<P>Well it really sounds like you have given this a lot of thought. You definitely are in a hard place. You have Steve, who really knows marriages but doesn't know you really well saying you should tell, and you have your pastor, who doesn't have as much training as Steve, but knows you and your husband really well. <P>I don't think there is any harm in waiting to tell your husband, since after you have told him you can't un-tell him. But I have thought of something, why not combine the advantages of both people? I mean why not have your pastor be on the phone with you the next time you talk to Steve? That way Steve can listen to your Pastor's experience with your husband, and your Pastor can listen to Steve's take on this problem. Steve has been talking with you about this particular problem more than your pastor. Maybe Steve can take the additional background facts he learns from your pastor and apply his knowledge to them, and your pastor can apply what additional facts he knows to some of Steve's ideas. Then all three of you can come to a better conclusion. <P>My personal opinion is that if you do tell your husband, you probably need to have someone with you, either the pastor, his wife, or both; maybe even have Steve on the phone also.<P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You,<BR>John

#855551 03/17/00 01:52 AM
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I can't believe the way I feel after reading some of the posts above. <P>I think the purpose of this forum is for us to give each other support and share our experiences.<P>It seems like it's becoming a "do as I say" forum. <P>It's not our place to TELL Jill what to do.<P>It's not our place to tell her she's wrong, or making a mistake, or she'll be sorry for the choice she made.<P>Jill,<P>you do what you need to do. Don't let anyone bully you into doing anything that you aren't ready to do. maybe you'll confess someday and maybe you won't. <P>It's not their marriage that is at risk here, it's yours, so do what you believe is right for your marriage.<P>We all make good and bad choices throughout our lives. You have to live with your choice, so make sure it's really YOUR choice not a reaction to someone else's choice.<P>Keo<BR>

#855552 03/16/00 02:00 PM
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Jill - I agree with your pastor. I think I may have advised the same thing, when you first posted about your dilemma. I think it's absolutely the right decision.<P>If your H had voiced strong suspicions at the time that you were having an affair, and was still bothered by it, that would be a different matter. But apparently, he never suspected anything? So such a revelation now would devastate him.<P>Regards and blessings,<P>--Wex [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

#855553 03/16/00 02:22 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think the purpose of this forum is for us to give each other support and share our experiences.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're absolutely correct. But one of the things we should be doing on this particular web site is reinforcing the "Harley method of Marriage Building." We are not telling her to do it right now. She <I>should</I> do it sometime, in an appropriate place and in the appropriate way. This is something she has thought about since it happened. Why? 'cause she feels the need to be honest. A dilemma for sure. But a decision needs to be made.<P><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

#855554 03/16/00 03:03 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR><B> one of the things we should be doing on this particular web site is reinforcing the "Harley method of Marriage Building." </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe in the Harley method. If I didn't, I wouldn't be here.<P>But I also believe that no one method fits every circumstance. (If your teaching someone to drive a car you have to use different approaches if the car is automatic or standard transmission.)<P>It seems to me that we act like everyone drives a automatic... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] there has to be some small adjustments made for different types of vehicles (marriages)<P>Harley is good at what he does, but he's not a God to be worshiped and unquestionally obeyed.<P>Someone posted that a high percentage of childless marriages don't survive his methods. <P>Jill has the right to decide if she wants to join that percentage or not.<P>We don't have the right to tell her that she MUST join that percentage.<P>I, for one, don't want to be guilty of distroying a marriage by bullying someone into doing something they feel is wrong at this time.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>But a decision needs to be made.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It seems to me that a decision was made. <P>The problem here is that most of us don't approve of the decision that Jill and her pastor made.<BR>

#855555 03/16/00 03:05 PM
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Jill,<P>Don't worry about what we will think, it is a far-reaching decision, YOUR decision.<P>You have to decide, apart from all the advice.<P>I will not offer you any, but I will tell my story if you like.<P>I am speaking as a betrayed wife. My h decided to tell. Interestingly, we are also very close to our pastor and wife, and he also advised him not to tell.<P>He decided to tell. I was devastated. Many times I wished he had not. But for me it has been an important wake-up call. Our marriage is so different now. We are really making it. Read my update?<P>Eventually he will have to know if you are going to build a wonderful marriage based on total honesty.<P>I am a reluctant convert to the entire Harley approach. But I can't advise you. There are some people, especially men, that will not forgive. Someone mentioned no kids, is that true? The kids were a major factor in my resolve to get past this during the worst times.<P>Sorry, I can't remember, was this a long affair? It also makes a difference how bad the news is. H hit me with his story - two affairs, each lasting 4 to 6 months, ranging over 18 months. For one and a half years my life was a complete lie!<P>You have to decide for yourself. Largely what got me into this mess was always trying to live by what others said.<P>

#855556 03/16/00 03:10 PM
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Keosha,<P>We aren't <B>telling</B> Jill what to do. We are sharing our own perspectives. She is a big girl and is capable of accepting our viewpoints for what they are, evaluating the merits, and deciding for herself. <P>Jill's posts show her to be thoughtful and introspective. I don't think she will be pressured by us to do anything she hasn't thought through herself. I sure hope not!<P>I know I personally have benefitted greatly from the diversity of viewpoints found here, those I agree with, those I don't, and especially those that had not occurred to me.

#855557 03/16/00 03:28 PM
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<BR>Keo,<P>I'm with 2sad4words here. We aren't telling Jill to do anything. She can decide what to do for herself. However, I personally believe that the kind of marriage she wants is virtually unattainable until she confesses.<P>Here's the acid test. Let Jill look into her husband's eyes the next time she and her husband make love. Not as a boudoir trick, mind you, but *really* try and look him in the eyes; The depth of the emotional connection she'll experience will bring the Paradox of the Betrayer to the forefront of her mind. And I'll bet she averts her gaze. After all, how can a good person lie to someone they *truly* love? How can they maintain a profound emotional connection like that? I don't think they can.<P>Bystander

#855558 03/16/00 03:48 PM
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Wow! <P>There's a couple of things I believe in firmly and they pervade almost every decision I make.<P>1) The power of the human psyche to overcome any obstacle is immense. All it takes is desire, commitment, and a bit of elbow grease.<P>2) We all have inside of us the capacity for great harm and great love. I tend to favor the love part a bit more which of course sets me up for the occasional fall, but I'm strong enough to take it.<P>I really worry about the no child-less of a chance statistic. It's a statistic, it's not a certainty. We make the difference in what happens to us, not statistics. Men are less willing to work on a marriage after news of infidelity than woman, but does that mean Jill's husband would? I don't know. Jill you know your husband. You know you. Whatever decision you make or don't make is going to come with it's own set of consequences. Please, Please don't back away from a decision out of fear. You've really got to make a decision based upon a full picture of the pros and cons as they relate to your situation.<P>Boy, I really feel for you on this one. It would be easier if you had a crystal ball and could see both of the bends in the road on each choice.

#855559 03/16/00 04:09 PM
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To Bystander and other sharks urging Jill to tell, don't give up your day jobs!!!<P>She has taken Dr. Harley's advice which I do not believe she misunderstood. Back off! Her situation may be different from yours.<P>To Bystander and the "look deep into the eyes etc.", it sounds like she does have a good marriage. Don't try to tell her that it is impossible for her to have a good marriage without telling all. Perhaps you should broaden your base of relationship research. Even Dr. Harley leaves room for another approach in her situation. Who are you guys to continue in your dogmatic tell all advice.<P>Some of you sound like people standing in the street looking up at the guy on the ledge yelling, "Jump!"<P>This reply will no doubt offend some of you here, but I post anyway because the stakes for Jill and her H are very high. Give her pastor some credit. Also, give Jill credit and be supportive of her in her decision.<P><p>[This message has been edited by wesse (edited March 16, 2000).]

#855560 03/16/00 04:17 PM
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<BR>Wesse,<P>I'll let the shark crack pass, thanks.<P>I *never* urged Jill to confess. I simply said that in my estimation, she's never going to have the marriage that she wants until she confesses. See BrokenButNotCrushed's recent post about his wife confessing: After reading Jill's posts, I see the same need in Jill to confess, that's all.<P>Bystander<BR>--<BR>Who is starting to feel unwelcomed in this thread.

#855561 03/16/00 04:28 PM
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Hi.<P>I expected to have lots of different opinions and advice on this one. <P>Some of you seemed to dismiss my pastor's advice because you were of the opinion that he didn't have the appropriate counseling credentials. My pastor was a marriage and family counselor before he was "called to preach". So, he DOES have counseling experience outside of being a pastor. <P>I've also been asked what I would want if the roles were reversed and my husband became the betrayer and I became the betrayed. I would NOT want to know that my husband cheated on me...I wouldn't want everything to be destroyed over a six month "fling". My husband has told me before that he NEVER wanted to know if I cheated on him. I take his words at face value. I wouldn't want to know. He doesn't want to know.<P>Yes, I wish I had a crystal ball.<P>Yes, there have been times that I feel like the "Harley Lynch Mob" is coming for me... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Gee...I'm was a wayward spouse and now I'm a wayward Harley follower...go figure. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Having an affair was like jumping off of a cliff and dying. In my view right now, confessing would be like coming back from the dead and jumping off of the cliff AGAIN. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>So, sue me. I'm not willing to destroy everyone and everything around me for the sake of TOTAL honesty. I've already destroyed myself in lots of ways...I won't put others through the same pain that I've experienced. I can't do that today...not yet...maybe not ever.<P>Thanks to everyone who responded. I really do appreciate all of the input. <P>Since the "lynch mob" appears to be coming for me, maybe I'll have to go elsewhere.<P>Keosha, thanks for "going to bat" for me...I really appreciate you. Thank you for somehow representing my thoughts and feelings so well...<P>WHERE IS [censored]???<P>Jill<P>

#855562 03/16/00 04:35 PM
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I really don't consider us the lynch mob, well not all of us anyway. But just like anyplace else everyone is different and feels differently on different situations. Don't take it personally. Hell, look at Bystander and I, I thought I was going to have to hunt him down and B&TCH SLAP him the other day, BUT i realized that we all have different thoughts and opinions and I let him continue to walk the same earth as me!! Aren't I JUST THE GREATEST!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

#855563 03/16/00 04:43 PM
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I agree with Keosha and Wesse. Allow Jill her decision. God forbid we disobey the "Word of Harley"!. Is following Harley's advice closer to doing what God would want than her own pastor's advice?<P>Let's offer her support in doing whatever rebuilding she needs/wants to do with her marriage and come down off our high horses in doing so.<P>Sheesh! Have a little tolerance, already!<P>Jill,<P>For what it's worth, I support you. (And I'm a recent total honesty convert!)

#855564 03/16/00 04:55 PM
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<BR>trying2_4give,<P>To know me is to love me - okay, in my case, that's revised to: To know me is to tolerate me! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><BR>Jill,<P>If you've followed my posts elsewhere, you need to know that I run everything in my life at full throttle - including my posting style. While I genuinely believe what I've written in this thread, I'm also sure that right now isn't the time for you to tell your husband. Good luck and don't count me in the Harley Lynch Mob! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Bystander

#855565 03/16/00 04:56 PM
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Hey Jill,<P>What's your next step?<P>You've decided for now not to tell. What are you going to do to insure this doesn't happen again? <P>Hey no lynching from me. I have a different opinion on honesty, but then I value honesty way up on the richter scale. Incidentally, my husband and I had a discussion about affairs sometime before I found out. (although I really don't remember the exact time frame) I told him I wanted to know. I also told him I thought I could forgive one.<BR>Obviously your circumstance is different.<P>One thing you can do that is very proactive is if you feel your needs aren't being met, and you want to look elsewhere again you can<BR>come back here and post. We'll be glad to straighten you out. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] lol.<P>Hang in there Jill. To everything there is a season right?

#855566 03/16/00 05:06 PM
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Jill,<P>Now that I've read all of the replies you've gotten, I feel like I need to give you my thoughts on it. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>I support you! No questions asked. Yes, honesty is good in a relationship but if I were in your position, I probably wouldn't tell either. Also, after all the pain I went thru in finding out my H was cheating, I wish I'd never found out. I wish I had thought we were to separate because of other problems we've had. I could have dealt with that a little easier. <P>You are welcome to be here. You are an adult and are entitled to make your own decisions!<P>Take care,<BR>Mitzi<P>

#855567 03/16/00 05:08 PM
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Jill,<P>I would miss your posts if you stopped coming here. Some of us agree with your decision, some disagree, and some like myself don't pass any judgment. Your life is yours to live and everyone here respects that. <P>The fact that your pastor knows you so well is a powerful argument that his advice is good. So live with your decision not to tell for a while, if it works, great. If it doesn't, you'll know.<P>Please keep in touch. Your experience will be of great help to us here as we struggle to understand our issues.<P>Cheers,<BR>Kenneth

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