It's now been 60 days since " d-day", and 5 weeks since my H move -out. I gave him until Easter to make-up his mind . He says that he's more confused then ever, He says that he still loves me. But he cannot brake is affair with OW ( 18 years younger then him.) He says that he does not know if it's love, he never told her that he loves her. Yesterday He actually invited me out for lunch, then he came back to my place we had a very good conversation, We even kisses and hugs for 1 hour!!! <BR>Also, In the last few days, our 10 year old fund out, and confronted his Dad with it. This had a tremendous effect on both of them. He knows that if it over for good , i'm moving away back home 2,000 miles away with our son, so in a way he is losing is son also. The son that he adore and cheriched. He still think of his affair as a fantasy, and says that he wants to make sure that is not missing a big love opportunity w/ her. He wants to get together again this week-end to talk more. I've done EVERYTHING a woman could do to show and tell him how much I love him. He says that he never realize that I love him like this and that's what makes it so hard for him . He says that i'm 10 times the women she is. Because of her age ( she's 22 he's 39) I feel out of place ( DA!!) So I do not understand, I'm so confused, and I'm really running out of patience and i'm so so tired of hurting. He keeps saying he's sorry for all the pain , he read the book "Surviving an affair", and it made him realize how much pain he is caused me. I'm I an idiot for still loving him to death . I dont know what else to do. But I do know that I have 17 years invested in this man and 16 1/2 were great one's. I want my husband back, I want my live back. Please help me.

Dear Anne,<P>Thank you for sharing your pain, and allowing us to minister to you in your time of need. <P>I am a Christian counselor who was betrayed by his wife. In working through my own pain, I discerned many truths about the dynamics of unfaithfulness. I hope what I share helps you and your H better understand what you are fighting against.<P>You've been at this site for a while, so I'll assume you are familiar with MB concepts. I think they are great, and use them all the time in counseling people. But no paradigm can encompass everything, so I would like to share answers with you from a completely different perspective.<P>Right now, your H's behavior must be difficult for you to understand. It's even difficult for him to understand! But there are reasons for everything that is happening, it's just that so many of the motivations are under the surface and hidden, even from your H.<P>It sounds like your H really wants to stop his interest in the OW, but can't. An affair is a form of addiction, and it can drive people to terrible choices. The explanation that follows is actually written to the betrayer (your H), but you may benefit greatly by understanding what is going on. If, after you have read it enough to have it sink in, you believe it accurately portrays what your H is going through, have him read it, too. I hope it will help both of you.<P>Here goes...<P>Human beings are shaped like triangles when it comes to decision making. The two bottom corners of the triangle are our sources of input. Let's call them Thinker and Feeler. Thinker is your rational mind. Feeler is your emotions. Each has access to your five senses and memories. At the top of the triangle is Will. Will evaluates the input of Thinker and Feeler, but the ultimate decision is always made by Will.<P>Whenever a situation calls for a decision to be made, Thinker sends its input up to Will. Feeler does as well. Will evaluates the strength of each of the inputs and makes a decision accordingly. Thus, if presented with the dessert tray at a restaurant, Thinker might send, "You don't need the extra calories. Pass it up. On a scale of 1-10, intensity 6." Feeler smells the chocolate fudge and responds, "I have to taste that! On a scale of 1-10, intensity 9." Will receives both inputs and chooses to order the fudge because Feeler's input was stronger.<P>For most situations in life, the above process occurs without conscious effort. And, for the most part, the process works well. Every once in a while, though, it leads us down the wrong path. To get back on the right path, we need to change the process.<P>Over the years, unresolved issues most likely built up in the marriage, and your Feeler began sending increasingly strong signals to Will that something had to change. Initially, Thinker kept sending, "I must have my needs met within the marriage." And so, Will chose to side with Thinker.<P>With each time that Will took Thinker's advice and your needs still went unmet, Feeler yelled louder and Thinker became less certain that your needs would be met in the marriage. Inexorably, the point was reached where Feeler's "Yes!" became stronger than Thinker's "No!" From that moment forward, you slid down the slippery slope of the road to adultery.<P>Every now and then, your Thinker would get a boost from your conscience, the Bible or some other source that stiffened its resolve. For a short while, you would decide to not see the OW. Your Thinker sent a message to Will that this behavior cannot be tolerated. But, by then, Feeler was stuck on a 10 intensity. Sooner or later, Thinker lessened its input, and you slid back down the road again.<P>The issue on which Feeler is a solid 10 is whether to continue the affair, and to continue to experience the emotional rush that it offers. On other issues, Feeler's input may vary greatly. A person with a well-developed sense of right and wrong will inevitably experience great remorse and guilt over their betrayal of their spouse and their rebellion against God. On this issue, Thinker and Feeler may be in perfect agreement: "What I am doing is wrong! I should feel guilty." And so the person does experience guilt and remorse. But because this issue is separate from whether to continue the affair, the guilt does not cause them to stop the affair, only to wistfully want to.<P>If this sounds familiar, then praise God! There is an answer (it assumes that you and your H have a personal relationship with God. If you don't, but would like to, please let me know and I'll share how...)<P>The only way to break out of this cycle is to change the process. God gave you free will. It was the most expensive gift in the universe (God gave it knowing that it would cause all the sin in the world, plus the suffering and death of Jesus). Nothing, not even your emotions, can ever rob you of your free will.<P>Will can always choose what to do. It may be hard, especially when a pattern has been established. But you never lose accountability for your choices, and you never lose the power to choose.<P>At times, it may truly seem that you are powerless. You are not. It only seems that way because you have not yet correctly understood how to alter the process of your decision making.<P>God will never allow you to become powerless against a sin. Deception may cause you to believe you are powerless, and as long as you believe that lie, you will be helpless. Recognize the deception, and you will see that the way out was there all along. So that you can be sure what I am saying is true, consider these words from Paul's letter to the Corinthians: <P>"No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able; but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, that you may be able to endure it." I Cor. 10:13. <P>Here is the way of escape from this sin:<P>1. Recognize and accept that emotions lie. We cannot trust them to know what is best for us.<P>2. Believe that you have not lost your free will (Will is still in control of your decision making).<P>3. Will must choose to act on what you KNOW to be true from the word of God, and to disregard Feeler's input.<P>4. Accept that it is not at all necessary for your feelings to change in order for Will to choose to do what is right. When Feeler screams, "10! 10! 10!," Will replies, "I understand that is what I am feeling, but I choose to follow the Word of God anyway." <P>Your prior efforts failed, in part, because Feeler still wants the emotional high from the affair. When you tried to break things off and make it work with your wife, Feeler didn't feel better! You were allowing a temporary surge from Thinker to override Feeler. Once the intensity of Thinker was depleted (it always will be sooner or later) your Will once again bowed to Feeler, whose intensity had not decreased at all.<P>The way out is completely different. Choose what to do independent of input from Thinker or Feeler. Then it doesn't matter what input Feeler sends, the decision has already been made!<P>I don't mean to make light of the effort involved in this. While the answer is surprisingly simple, it will take great steadfastness to carry out. But here's the reason you will be successful: It's not Feeler against Thinker anymore. You are placing all your hope and trust in the Word of God, and that Rock is able to withstand any onslaught of emotions. <P>...<P>I'm sorry this was such a lengthy reply. It takes time to convey a new concept and a new solution. I know you are hurting, but your best chance to stop hurting is to really understand the root problem. Please post back if you have any questions.<P>Best Wishes,<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<P><p>[This message has been edited by BrokenButNotCrushed (edited March 29, 2000).]

Broken but not Crushed: Your reply was excellent, in my opinion. I had never looked at it this way before. My constant overanalysis and confusion regarding my husband's erratic, unpredictable behavior had no meaning to me prior to reading your post: Now I am closer to understanding what his abnormal behavior is all about. Thank you so much for this post and for your "word picture" description of what is happening inside the mind of a betrayer -- assuming, of course, that he has a conscious and a relationship with God! Incidentally, my H did have a relationship with God and was a Christian before this whole thing happened. Now he wants to take our kids out of the Christian school they've attended for years, he criticizes and ridicules the church we all go to, he mocks me for leaving the Bible on the coffee table at my house and, frankly, he has just gone the complete "other way." He moved out over a year ago so that he could be with his OW and now he is fully entrenched in the whole addictive nature of the affair. He has become a completely different person - hateful, cruel, indifferent to his own children; however, deep inside I know that God is screaming to him to repent but my H is just listening to "Feeler" rather than "Thinker." If only he could put both of these guys in the trash and hand it all over to God.

I think BrokenButNotCurshed 's description of wayward spouse's internal stuggle is great.

Dear Moving On,<P>I'm glad that my response could help you make sense of your difficult situation. BTW, I will soon post a more detailed description of what I shared with Anne under a new thread.<P>Best Wishes,<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>3. Will must choose to act on what you KNOW to be true from the word of God, and to disregard Feeler's input.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is the hard part. I'm so consfused I don't KNOW anything to be true. <BR>

Dear TruthSeeker,<P>What a painful place to be... Can I help?<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<P><BR>

This will be quick and sweet your H is in a fantasy world he has confused love with lust and it's a very fine line'He must end all contact with OW.<P>It is the on;y way,he knows what he has ,he is scared and confused.If it's true love than why is he so torn? Because he doesn't know the reality of it yet<P>Again he must end all contact in order for your marriage to work!!

Dear Ann<BR>Unfortunately your H, like mine and a lot of us on this forum ,are going through the same process of denial,selflishness,not wanting to give up a good thing,(even at the cost of breaking a family),addiction,confusion,Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde syndrome,desire that overpowers love of wife and family,attempting to have it both ways,and being torn between two women.<P>Not only is it painful and humiliating for us as but it breaks us to witness our H's lie,deceit and basically sell us out for the sake of some floozy they are convinced is the stuff dreams are made off...<P>I am afraid you cannot do anything about this.And the sooner you realize this is a painful journey they have to take alone, the more clarity you will have.Perhaps being away from him will bring a quicker ending to his dream like exitence.No man wants to be separated from a loving home.In my case I am playing the waiting game,waiting for my H to wake up from this coma he is in.I am sick of the sleepless nights and the jealous rage I have felt ,especially knowing however hard I beg,plead,or however hard I cryIT WILL NOT END THE AFFAIR...He alone can do that ,unfortunately all I can do is be as patient,loving and selfless as possible while he burns in this hell he has created.

Anne,<P>It is great that your h wants to come back. You have read BrokenButNotCrushed description of his internal struggle.<P>Now, it is up to you to set aside your feelings, and needs at this time. Whacko, I know. You think this is backwards. To us sane people it is.<P>But to your lost h it is the only way he can cope. He has so much confusion, he can barley hold on to himself, there is no way he has the energy to cope with your feelings. I know, you hate this.<P>However, This is really great news. It gives you a chance to lead your family back from the brink. I am convicned that if BOTH h & wife focus on thier needs at a time like this, there is a high proablitiy they will not get back together.<P>You now know this. Now you can be PRO-active instead of RE-active. You must provide a safe place for your h to come. No expectations, no demands. A safe place he can walk into that he knows will not overwhelm him (cannot handle right now) and a place he can show HIS pain (what a pain for you!) and not get grief, but comfort.<P>Think: This is what he needs right now. Are you going to let the ow do this for him?<P>under the theory we fall in love with those that meet our needs, he will develope stronger feelings for WHOEVER is a able to comfort him. Let this be you.<P>I have also seen many times that the 6 week out of house point is critical. The chances are better if the spouse is back in the house before, and not after the 6 weeks. Don't ask me why. I just have seen this. It maybe that the fog lifts a bit, there is a small opening, and with fresh air, the fog will clear. Otherwise, they return to ow and get in deeper and deeper.<P>Have a song in your heart! Your h is willing to move home. And right at the time the window opens. Great. Do plan A, and have him fill out an emotional needs questionnaire.<BR>Don't do yours unless he asks. Remember: he can't deal with you at this moment until he gets some fog out. Just tell him you would like to know more about what he needs, and you have found this site, and this form would help.<P>I will tell you what I was told when I fill out the questionnaire. Be very very very specific.<BR>Instead of saying I like to walk in the park together, Say:<P>Time On sun. evenings<BR>Where at park on 7th or a different one each week<BR>With my h and my dogs or with h and no dogs<BR>How with us discussing topics as gardening, retirement future, health <P>Explain this need for details in his answer. It will help you.<P>And I do hope this post has helped. If you disagree, that certainly is ok! It is your life, and you must do want you think is best. I do find that if I get educated about how other people have handled a problem, I sometimes adjust what I would have done. Just a thought.<P>Victoria<P>P.S. I know I talked all about him and his needs. Don't think for a minute that there won't be a time in the fairly soon future that your needs will be discussed AND the hurt, anger, bewilderment you have had to deal with because of his choice of action will be addressed. They will. You have suffered in this. But it is your family under siege, your h is wounded, you are the one to pull ya'll back to saftey. Once your family is safe you can address the reasons you got into the war in the first place! <BR>