Believe:<P>Please forgive me if I was to short with you. <P>I don't know your story, but one thing I do know is that whomever is loved by you should count himself lucky and if your significant other does not appreciate you it is his fault.<P>I know it isn't easy to give up this man, because this love is as real to you as any...no matter how flawed it may be.<P>Buffy

HI Believe,<BR> You sound like a VERY caring, loving and intelligent woman. What you did was right and I commend you for it. We (The betrayed) are a little touchy on two points here:<BR> ONE..... We KNOW our WS lied, or at least only told "Their" side of the Marriage to OP.<BR> This is VERY frustrating for us. MY W's OM's fiancé told me my W told THEM I was a monster, I'm not. Really. <BR> And TWO...<BR> The obvious fantasy of it all becomes kind of a joke to us because we KNOW (or are at least learning) what it takes to make a Marriage work. Talking about ourselves to each other in that wonderful "beginning" time ALL relationships go through of course "Wears off" once "Real Life" come into the picture.<BR> Again, you sound like a very intelligent and loving person. I pray you find someone to share all that with in a REAL relationship that won't cause anyone (Including yourself) any pain. You certainly should be rewarded for doing the honorable thing!! <P> GOD BLESS YOU AND KEEP YOU STRONG. FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P>

Believe,<P>Where I disagree is when you say....how can you live in a marraige that is superficial where you are so unhappy and have tried for so long.<P>I think if you are so unhappy, you haven't tried at all!!!<P>Why haven't you tried???? Because it is hard to try...it takes work...it is easier to find someone who will listen and sympathize and make you feel better rather than figureing out how to do it for yourself.<P>ANd again, that only seems to last in the beginning, before the hard work comes in again.....life....it is never easy......<P>Believe, I am trying so hard to keep my marraige together because I do love my H, I accept him, I actually KNOW him.....<P>We have three small children. On days that I think I should just throw in the towel and find a replacement companion and stepfather, I remind my self of the above.<P>A marraige does take two willing people, it does take hard work (any relationship does for that matter)<P>Some people seem to be unwilling to do the hard work....TOo me, it seems that the MM you have corresponded with is unwilling to do the hard work.<P>You know, it is a trap that our society as a whole has seemed to fall in.....We seldom want to do the hard work in any arena.....life should just "happen" we "deserve" it. Everyone seems to accept this behavior. People nowadays seem to be unwilling to take a stand on issues....its become "whatever...." I,m just as guilty of it in many ways, and am so saddened by it.<P>THroughout this "trial" I have been going through I have tried to focus on ways to teach my children how to "do the right thing" "take the harder paths" without being a zealot about it.<P>Of course I loose my steam when I feel lonely and battered about. I tend to want to poke the OP's eyes out....(I have known her for 5 years...I gave her maternity cloths along time ago...she has been to my house for dinner....I have always rolled my eyes when she called herself "the office wife" and told me that she made her last boss's wife jealous when she was young and skinny) <P>But given how you've done such a good thing for yourself...and are learning so much about relationships you will bring a lot into a healthy relationship yourself!!!!

Believe,<P>"Please Help" is right. It is great that you have decided to get out of this situation before it gets any worse. You are saving yourself a whole lot of misery down the road because the vision you have of this man and the possible relationship you could have with him is truly flawed.<P>It's good that you are here because you can see the pain that this type of involvement gives other people. You can see how so many betrayed H's and W's say that they didn't know their marriage was on the brink of disaster and would have done anything to prevent it. <P>I wouldn't be so quick to believe everything he says. It's normal and natural to reach out for comfort when you are down, but it's BETRAYAL when the person comforting you is not your spouse. If the H was trying, he'd be trying with his W, not you. If he really wants out, he will keep finding women to pour his soul out to until he finds one who will accept him. How special will it all be then?<P>I've been here too. All too many times, sadly. We're here because we've lived what you describe. We've felt the pain of our H's lies. We are the ones described as "roommates, lazy, fat, selfish, unloving, etc..." We are the ones that our betrayers said they didn't love anymore as they bring us flowers for Mother's Day, make love to us at night, take us out to dinner, plan futures with us, and go to church with us. <P>Your heart is good. You did what you did out of love. I hope this H takes this opportunity to open his eyes and either make his marriage better or get out, but having an affair is not the way to solve his problem. You really did him and yourself a favor. Affairs don't usually end in marriage. And if it did, could either of you ever trust the other to not do what you did?<P>I hope that you find someone who is free to love you the way you want to be loved. I feel that your post was sincere.

Believe,<P>This struck a painful spot in my heart! I just want you to know up front that I think you are doing the right thing and I commend you for your strength as much as it hurts. You did nothing wrong, it was him who knew from the start exactly what he was doing to you. <P>My H and I were seperated for a couple months last year (we were only engaged at the time). During this separation he met (briefly, about an hour) the sister of a co-worker. They started e-mailing and talking on the phone (she lives over an hour away). At the same time he was trying to get back together with me. He told me about her to instill jealousy and it worked (I always wanted to be with him, but he ended our engagement and I wanted to give him space to be sure he wanted to be with me). He told me they worked together and they were only friends.<P>We had a heart to heart one night and we decided to start dating again. He told me he was going to tell this friend we were back together and I believed him. Occassionally he would tell me they talked and he told her we were doing great.<P>He proposed to me agin in December and we took off with the wedding plans. We set the date for Jan. 28, 2000. This was our 3rd date we'd set in the past year.<P>Christmas was magical and everything seemed to be falling into place. I had suspicions, but refused to really see. I heard the phone dialing in the middle of the night at times, but never heard him actually talking so I let it go. One night I had to work late and I didn't hear from him since noon and he never came home until 9 the next morning. He said he went to a hockey game with a guy from work then crashed at his house - I believed him.<P>Finally he forwarded me a joke e-mail and I saw what I thought was her e-mail address. I asked if that was his friend from work and he said yes. I asked if I could e-mail her if everything was was just a friendship and he said of course. Later that night he asked if I e-mailed her and I said no (I wasn't ready for what I might find out).<P>I saw her on AOL Instant Messenger one day so I sent her a message introducing myself. I figured if they were just friends then she and I could be friends as well.<P>Needless to say she was beyond shocked that we were getting married the next week. As it turns out he told her all sorts of lies that we broke up and I was begging him to come back. He never told her he moved in with me a month before. He would tell her about his days and nights and just leave me and my 2 boys out of the picture even though we were very much IN the picture.<P>He built himself up to her to be this wonderful Christian man who could take care of her and her son and make her very happy (she sent me their e-mails so I saw the lies upon lies).<P>They had their first date the night he didn't come home. They consummated their relationship and they were talking about a future all the while we were doing final planning with our Pastor for the wedding.<P>What I'm trying to say is that my H led this woman to believe he was single, christian and downright God like, with his lies. You can be anyone you want to be over the internet and you can portray your life to be everything it's not. He played with her emotions and her mind.<P>She stopped all contact with him that day since, in her words, "I've only been in love with him for a week".<P>I was amazed at the things he said to her in his e-mails and like he said, "they were just words on a screen, she meant nothing, it was all a game to see how far I could go".<P>I'm not telling you that to hurt you, but maybe you can see this man as the liar he is. For him to even engage in such games is almost unforgiveable.<P>I've seen the chat rooms he's gotten into "married and flirting" and I think it's wrong. He says he just likes to learn about people, but I believe it's crossing the line and takes away from the marriage. I told him if he wants to act single then BE honestly single. People who go into these chat rooms think it's harmless, but it erodes the relationship. It's them that are making the marriage fall apart, not the spouse they SAY is being unreasonable.<P>Sorry to vent, but it struck a nerve.<P><P>------------------<BR>~~ I will not play at tug o'war, I'd rather play at hug o'war, Where everyone hugs instead of tugs, Where everyone giggles and rolls on the rug, Where everyone kisses and everyone grins and everyone cuddles and everyone wins! ~~

LadyK,and to everyone else out there!<P>First,LadyK,I am so sorry that you have had to go through all of what you have dealt w/.<BR>It must be agonizing and down right painful!You seam to be a very strong women!<P>To everyone that has posted.............<BR>YOU ARE ALL RIGHT!.......I AGREE 100%!!!!!<P>My whole point to this was how easy it is to get involved w/someone and truly not even realize it!<P>I know that it is fantasy!........everything that I think about is in my DREAMS!......(which I hate my self for dreaming of another W Husband!.....it is wrong and I have sinned in the most unforgiveable manor!)<P>Even tho I don't REALLY know this man,and maybe every thing that he told me was a lie....I will never know!..........I can only go by what my gut tells.......(it has never been wrong!)I do Believe this man wants a happy marriage w/his W.....I do Believe everything that he told me!.....I do Believe that he is a kind and gental man,w/a heart of gold!........he just like I got suck into the dangers of internet EA.<P>He does not know how I feel.......I don't even really think that he feels the same way for me!........I wanted him to have a chance of a happy marriage w/his W......I knew that if she were to read our messages.....<BR>1.)It would hurt!!!!.......<BR>2.)she would have made more out of it....than what it really was!....he doesn't have the same feelings for me remember!...<BR>3.)non the less she would not have trust.<BR>It would have killed every chance that he has w/her!<P>I didn't want this to happen.....bc I love him........and he wants to be happy w/his W.....If he is happy than that is all that I am concered about!......If that is w/his W than that is the way that it should be!!!<P><BR>

Please don't think I was attacking you! I Believe he never should have given you his e-mail address to begin with, knowing he was crossing that very fine line. <P>My H has a tendancy to share too much with women and I see them take that innocence as his interest in them. Most conversations he engages in are not intended for him to score, but he does loose his focus and if they seem interested he runs with it, like he's proving he is a good person by how he can swoon these women. He has a low self-image, as do I, and he needs validation from me (which I try hard to do) or from most anyone who will listen.<P>I've read on and off the book written by Dennis Rainey (www.fltoday.com) called "How To Raise Your Mate's Self-Esteem". My H read it, too, and found some interesting things about how we grow up effecting the rest of our lives.<P>My H is human and he is not perfect - I'm finally realizing that so I see him in a much better light. I know, deep down, he is that man he portrayed to the OW. He has a great big heart of gold and he cares deeply about people.<P>I'm sure you're a great person and I didn't mean to portray you as anything else. I don't know if I could be as strong as you. The OW my H deceived cut all ties and I know it was hard for her (we e-mailed for a while until she said she needed to move on and I was only reminding her of her pain). I feel for you as I do our OW.<P>God Bless you! Don't be so hard on yourself. God is forgiving!<P><P>------------------<BR>~~ I will not play at tug o'war, I'd rather play at hug o'war, Where everyone hugs instead of tugs, Where everyone giggles and rolls on the rug, Where everyone kisses and everyone grins and everyone cuddles and everyone wins! ~~

Believe,<P>Just one more thing...<BR>You don't get this too often I think...<P><B>You are loved.</B><P>If you haven't heard this in a while...<BR>...know that it is true.<P>God loves you...<BR>...and we all will love you with our prayers.<P> <P>yep... you could use a today....<P>here's a few more... <P> <P>Jim

LadyK,<P>It is ok. <P>Everyone here has a right to be angry and hurt!<BR>The people on this board has gone through so much!<P>I can't help but what I feel for this man!<BR>It may be all fantasy that we could have any kind of REAL future together!<BR>But non the less.......my feelings are just that......I can't help but to feel that we both agree on what a marriage needs to make it work......we have the same ideals,and thoughts!......it is just toooooo scary!<BR>I don't know if he was just agreeing w/me or if he really believed the same things!.....that is where it all comes into just not reality!<P>How can anyone think of a man.....to want to spend the rest of their lives w/him....to want to make him happy.......and have never met him!!!<P>It is crazy and insane!!!!<BR>Lock me up and throw away the key! aaaaahhhh!<P>I do know this........and yet in that same breath......I will always think of what it could have been like!!!!!<P>I really truly hope that he will find the love from his W.......that is what he wants!<BR>That would make him happy!<BR>I want him to be happy!!!!!<BR>That is why I stoped our communications!<P><BR>

NSR,<P>Thank you! <P><BR>

To everyone out there!!!<P>I have not been the perfect one here!<BR>It does take 2!<P>I am the one that gave him my e-mail!.......<P>I do know that he is not "perfect".....non of us are!........I know that he has some faults,and for that matter so does he.....he even said so.......he is beating him self up for what he has contributed to his marriage and keeps looking to the past as to "if I had known this,or that I could have changed it".........I believe that he has not protrayed him self in a false light,I believe that he has been nothing but truthful in his actions and life!<P>Here again it comes down to.........I will never really know!!!!!<P>The joke could be on me!<P>It really doesn't matter now anyway!<P>I just wanted people to know what it is that I am feeling!<P>when people have EA and PA........it is a choice!<P>They can deny that "they are just friends"...so that they be selfish for what ever it is that they are getting out of that relationship!<P>I am a christian women......I have sinned!<BR>I will live w/this the rest of my life!<P>I do Believe that God wants us to try and mirror his image......sometimes we don't!<P>What makes the difference is that we learn from the mistakes that we make and to never make them again!<P>