cindy,<P>I totally agree with what you said above. I just feel like my H does not want to hear any of this. He does not like deep conversations like that, he never asked any questions about my affair... When I (once) was brave enough to bring this up, I asked "do you ever want to know why this affair happened, or what I was thinking when I was doing this?" he said "nope" and kept on driving. Deep inside, through all those years, I always wanted him to find out I think. I left clues, I acted detached, I even tried reaching out to him, telling him I was falling out of love and I wanted our marriage back. He ignored all of this. How can I get close to him, if he doesn't seem to want to/ or be able to? I know I'll never be happy like this- its like living in a vacuum.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tamis:<BR><B>When I (once) was brave enough to bring this up, I asked "do you ever want to know why this affair happened, or what I was thinking when I was doing this?" he said "nope" and kept on driving. Deep inside, through all those years, I always wanted him to find out I think. I left clues, I acted detached, I even tried reaching out to him, telling him I was falling out of love and I wanted our marriage back. He ignored all of this. How can I get close to him, if he doesn't seem to want to/ or be able to? I know I'll never be happy like this- its like living in a vacuum. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know exactly what you mean. My H didn't want to know either, he just wanted it to be over with. I never expressed to him how I missed XOM while in withdrawal, like some others here who have literally had their spouse cry on their shoulder about OM. I can't see that ever happening w/me & my H. <P>I think men and women are just different about finding out about affairs. When my H confessed his stuff to me, he didn't want to discuss it. I wanted to ask all kinds of questions (still have some), but he wouldn't let me. He said it's over and done with and didn't want to give details. He never had an EA. Just had sex w/2 different women while we were married. He thinks I was so much worse, because I had said I loved the OM and he didn't love the OW. <P>Sorry, just had to vent!! <P>

Momma,<BR>I have read lots of posts from betrayed men who are not like my H at all. These men post that they recognize their wife is distant, they are concerned for the marriage, they want their wife to open up to them. I read these posts with envy. Sometimes I imagine what my H would post if he was going to post... He'd probably say "My wife and I are happy, everything is fine", not "my wife is distant and I want her back". Oh well, I guess he is just the type of guy who is not intuitive to my emotions, and I'll have to just spell it out. (I have told him about this site, and he browsed around, never posted).<P>I don't know if you saw my other post, but we are leaving for vacation this Saturday for a week, and I'm thinking about trying to have a real heart to heart with him. Problem is, I don't know how he'll react and I don't want tension on our kids' one and only summer vacation. I'll do my best. Wish me luck.

Hi Tamis,<P>I really identify with your situation about your husband being closed and distant to learn more about you, your relationship together and the affair. My husband is/was (starting to change) the same. I also feel envy when I read the men here who are posting because they are concerned about their relationships and desiring more closeness with their wives. I have also shared this site with my husband, but he has only browsed briefly once or twice. Still, rather avoid and withdraw when uncomfortable topics are addressed.<P>Yet, I am starting to see that we both have a part in this pattern. I will need to see what I have done to contribute to it and change that. Total honesty is a good beginning.<P>Seems like you are now ready to give all to your marriage and take some big risks in the hopes of building true intimacy and closeness. It is worth the risk. <P>I am intriuged by your story, especially the length of time you stayed in the relationship with the OM. I know this past year has been very stressful for me trying to live within this triangle. Now that you are willing to really turn towards your marriage, I was wondering if you have newly discovered your husband and a love for him and that is what is motivating you? You mentioned you loved the OM and he loved you. Did you ever consider breaking up the marriages (maybe early on before children) so you would each be free for each other? I guess I'm wondering what has finally brought you to this point. These are just all quesions I have, if they are not too personal to answer. I am trying to understand my own situation and the whole concept of love.<P>By the way, I have the book Torn Asunder, which is also very good. As I get more serious about really working on my marriage, I thnk I will get a lot more out of the book.<p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 22, 2000).]

I just read all of the posts over the past few days and wanted to comment again. (I haven't gotten to the computer for a while). Someone asked me if I ever think of the OM. Nearly every waking moment! Sometimes it's good, and sometimes bad, but I'm thinking of him often. One of the things that has mad a huge difference though is that I talk to my H about it. He knows how I feel, and the struggles I have. He is not a conflict avoider, and still wants to deal with every detail, sometimes several times over. It's been over 5 months since the affair ended, and we still are discussing how and why it happened. It probably is worse because it was with someone he knew very well. The Friday before he found out we went out to dinner and a movie. The day he found out (a sunday)we had lunch together. I feel so cruel now, but at the time, I was trying to preserve the life I had somehow, but it wasn't possible. I'm a firm believer that all of the truth has to be told.<BR>Another thing I'm working on in counseling is discovering myself. I go to counseling alone as well as with my husband every week. I believe I had neglected my own needs for years being wife, mother, employee... I really lost sight of myself, and allowed my husband to lose sight of my needs too. My needs are my responsibility. The OM and I developed a close friendship over several years. He began to meet needs within me I didn't know I had, and it was a feeling that I hadn't experienced in a long time. I should have stopped him, but it was as if I had no control over myself. Anyway, to get to my point, I am learning to be a person first, wife, mother, employee... next. <BR>The other thing is something I told OM when our affair was ending. I reminded him of the story of the rich young ruler who came to Jesus wanting to know how to get into heaven. Jesus said sell everything you have and give it to the poor. The man couldn't do this. The point of the story isn't that posessions are going to keep us from God. It means anything we value more than God and His will in our lives will keep us from Him. I told the OM, maybe I'm what you should give up. It's just a thought for those of you struggling with ending relationships. Building a strong marriage is possible with God at the center. You have to get to know your spouse again and take lots of time becoming a friend first.

Hello Tamis...<BR>Your original post on this thread really struck a nerve with me. I have not posted much lately....just so tired.....of struggling and expressing it in words here. But what was so sobering....was the length of time you have battled with this...and then to have it rekindled....is really frightening.<BR>I have been emotionally involved with another woman for not quite a year. Only one brief meeting where some physical contact took place. We have become very attached. We both confessed to our spouses after the meeting in December, endured some weeks of pain and agony....butit was not long before we resumed contact again. Both of us are married to spouses who don't like to communicate....and are conflict avoiders. <P>My friend and I....have become best friends. We are both emotionally dependent on each other. We have never made plans to leave our families to pursue a life together as we know it would only cause more pain and hurt and neither of us want to pay that price. We just struggle letting go completly.<BR>This was never about "sex and physical gratification." <BR>What has added to the pain...is the lack of help from our mates. Neither of them know we resumed contact...because we just can't bare to add more pain to their hearts. Yet...we are unable to talk to them and ask for help out of this place. I don't know that we can make it without them. I guess that is why your post really hit home. I could have written it myself. WE are just fortunate that we do not live in the same town or state.<BR>We have made repeated attempts to break off contact...and fail all the time. Neither of us can imagine....ever losing this deep affection that we have for each other. It is a very tiresome and painful struggle. Certainly, it would have been better to have never ventured into this place. We have yet to find the way out. So many here insist I tell my wife...but there are factors I don't wish to share here...that hinder this from happening. <P>Hello Wings...schizzo....sifted...momma....I've been lurking...just been quiet. Momma....saw your thread about running into the OM. How are you doing now with all that?<BR>By the way....has anyone found that "wand" that we could wave that would magically fix everything for us? :-)<BR><p>[This message has been edited by NoMas (edited June 23, 2000).]

Hi all! Hope you're starting off the day good. Mostly I feel alright, then suddenly I'll be overcome with sadness and break down for a short time. I hear that is how it is when someone dies. Usually though my feelings seem kind of neutral (or numb) and it makes me wonder if I'm just pushing a lot out of my mind and might crash at some point...<P>NoMas, I figured you were lurking. I understand the tiredness, especially in trying to figure everything out, explain once again... I get tired like that too. You mentioned that you can't bear to add more pain and hurt to your spouse's heart by sharing more with her. That made me think of something I read in one of Harley's books. It was the chapter on Honesty and Openness. It said there are different types of liars (born liars, convenience liars and protective liars). The protective liar keeps things from his spouse so as not to "burden" her, thinking she can't take it (for example the extent of financial debt they may be in, an risky investment he made that went bad...). Harley said we should not withhold information from our spouse just to protect them. It does build a barrier between us and doesn't show a lot of respect for them ("they can't handle it"). So, just something to think about - no preaching or judging here. It is just that I have withheld information in the past year (never did before) and I am realizing through this thread and from other's stories how hindering that is to real intimacy and closeness in a relationship. My husband has withheld all kinds of information over the years (even good stuff, like his future "dreams") and that has hurt us greatly, especially since my top EN is Honesty and Openness. When we withhold information we are really withholding ourselves - and no wonder we feel lonely in the most "intimate" earthly relationship we have.<P>I know it is difficult with spouses who don't like to communicate and are conflict avoiders. I guess I am seeing I must try once more, it is the only chance I have for the hope of the type of relationship I have always longed for.<P>BTW - I guess Jesus would have liked a magic wand also, instead of enduring the pain of the cross. "Father, if this cup could pass away,...but not My will, but Thine". For somethings in life there just isn't a magic wand.<P><p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 23, 2000).]

I was happy I struck a cord somewhere. I do really believe it is in your hands to take the relationship in the right direction. You are the betrayers and women! We all know women account for 90% of the relationship.<P>Remember men don't have the right brain - left brain link??<P>We've talked about laying the cards down, being open and letting the chips just fall.<P>I've also felt we as women must help our spouses help us (since they are so clueless).<P>You have to break the stagnation!<P>But the underlying question is a tough one, I've felt it between the lines:<P>Are you really doing your spouse or kids a favor if you are willing to stay in a "loveless" marriage?<P>It was easier for me as the betrayed in that sense. I had every moral right to make it clear that I would stay ONLY IF WE REBUILT OUR MARRIAGE FROM SCRATCH USING HARLEY's PRINCIPLES AND FOUND THE IN-LOVENESS.<P>Was this an ultimatum? I don't really know, I only know I could not go back to what we had.<P>You are trying so hard to do what is right. But as Tamis pointed out, she was left vulnerable because the changes weren't made in the marriage.<P>Any thoughts??<P><P>------------------<BR>Cindy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoMas:<BR><B>.....Momma....saw your thread about running into the OM. How are you doing now with all that?<BR>By the way....has anyone found that "wand" that we could wave that would magically fix everything for us? :-) </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi, NoMas! I HAVE NOT found that "wand" yet! Still looking........ <P>Not doing so well, back in contact w/OM. So, I don't have much encouragement for you. I know, I'm crazy (more like stupid). But I guess you know what I'm going through, don't you? Guess we'll figure out sooner or later. Hope it's sooner and not later. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by momma (edited June 23, 2000).]

Hi to all my kindred spirits!! <P>TAMIS<BR>..your story has really opened my eyes. Did you and the OM ever break it off during those 9 years? Ever stop contact? I'm just curious, because this seems to be a recurrent theme running through our stories...we "try" and succeed for a time, then one or the other makes contact and wham, it starts up again. <P>I am only on day 7, and am so full of anxiety. My husband and I have talked about it and he simply will not open up his heart and would rather just push this all out of the way and pretend it never happened. <P>Arrrggggghhhhhhh! Today's a tough day!<P>to: "I'm the cheater"..<BR>Wow...what you said is incredibly helpful. Now it putting the force behind it for strength. Thanks for sharing that.<P><p>[This message has been edited by wings (edited June 24, 2000).]