I did tell my wife tonight (Saturday). I almost forced it, so I wouldn't put it off any longer. It was a bombshell, naturally. She once had seen me talling to OP and thought at the time that I was looking at her with "that way" that apparently women see all too well and men think they hide. She kicked herself for not trusting her instincts more. <P>As for the evenig: No screams, yes anger, many tears, but quite a bit of conversation as well. As such horrible things go, I would say it was on the up side if compared to some of what I've read here. But definitely much, much sadness. As she said about herself, she didn't deserve it, which is very true. I will try to post more Sunday or Monday. Thanks for your concern.<P>Ivory

You did the right thing, Ivory. The pain and sadness is hard but the truth is so much better than lies. I know.<P>Hang in there. Now that everything is out in the open you are on the road to recovery. Good luck. You'll be in my prayers.

Good job!! Glad that it went as well as could be. You have a long road ahead of you now, but a good start.<P>Yeah, us women aren't stupid--and remember, that intuition that we are supposed to have. I looked the other way so! many! times! when the evidence was right there in my face--because I loved him and wanted to trust him. Now I feel stupid because I did look the other way (condoms in the backpack, weird little things his friends said, strange appointments and odd times in the day, ect.) <P>Anyways, that probably means the same: she wanted to trust you, too, no matter what.<P>You took the first step in regaining that trust tonight: by being honest.<P>So good show. We are all hoping the best for you!

Ivory,<P>Congratulations on doing the right thing for you and your W. I feel for her, I know she must be hurting.<P>Don't be surprised if your W is very volatile for a while. Sometimes it takes a while to sink in. When you first find out, usually the shock is so intense, there is no room for the real anger. I know that I was probably very unpleasant to my H after D-Day ("unpleasant" is an understatement, my rage became worse and worse until I worked it all out of my system). Look at this as a testing ground for your marriage. If you can stand by your W during this time, that's more than half the battle.<P>belld

Ivory,<BR>Glad you did it. How is she doing? I had emotions from extreme sadness to shame to anger. <BR>Guess how I figured it out. I saw them talking to eachother in public. She looked to be "in his space". I thought this very odd since he wasn't that kind of person. I confronted him shortly thereafter.<BR>I feel for your wife. If you feel testy at moments dont let her see it.<P>take care<BR>cleo

Ivory,<P>Good going! I'm proud of what you did (telling your W, that is, not the affair ).<P>It doesn't surprize me that she saw the signs before; like I said, we BS's (not just the women) are not as clueless as the WS's wish us to be...<P>As far as her reaction, I'd be really careful to not reach any conclusions for the next few days (at least). It'll take time for this to sink in, and she'll go through all sorts of emotions. She may seem OK right now, yet can totally explode a month from now. So don't think that you're on the way to recovery just because all you see now is a bit of sadness from her...<P>I thought I was more or less OK after d-day. Now, I'm realizing that I just placed my shock somewhere deep in the back of my mind. Only now, four months after d-day, am I beginning to really think about what they did, and I am much more distraught about it now than I was then, sort of a delayed stress syndrome...<P>Good luck with your recovery!<P>AGG

Ivory, it takes caring and courage to do what you have just done. I am glad that you are willing to take the responsibility and work on the marriage.<P>I think, with time and work, you and your wife will be ok. There will be tears, pain and heartache along the way, but the reward will be worth it all.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Here are some more details about the events of Saturday night.<P>Mostly a predictable response. Anger, tears, incredulity, shock. Pretty quick with "Pack your bags," but I understand. It goes with the territory sometimes. Actually, after that decree we talked for awhile. Mostly reasonably civil exchanges, some additional tears. I did stay with her as long as I could, until she needed to go to bed. The two major times when she cried I was able to hold her as she did. There never were raised voices. Afterwards I packed some things and left. <P>She did have a few questions about OP and about our times together but not too specific, and pretty soon realized that she really didn't want to know and that it didn't help matters any. Certainly she is angry at OP, as you would expect, but I don't think she'll be calling or anything such as that. I did tell her that I knew she needed someone to talk to and that if she wanted to confide in a friend I wouldn’t object, just to let me know which one, if she would. I mentioned MB phone counseling but she quickly said she wanted face-to-face counseling. Tonight she said she had a name and would be calling Monday to set something up.<P>I don't know how long the exile will last or if there'll be an end to it. I presume there will be, but in just what form I don't yet know. At times she was ready to end things; at other times she wasn't so sure. I’m just giving it time--clearly this is her time to control matters.<P>She did not respond too well to the concept of my still having emotional feelings for OP. I’m not saying a woman should, I’m just saying that the concept of withdrawal was not readily embraced by here. She asked at one point, “Is it over?” I thought she meant had we stopped seeing each other, so I said yes. But when I brought up the emotional part, she said, “Oh then it’s not over.” We went back and forth on that a couple of times. I explained as best I could and perhaps as time goes by she might reflect back on it., and it will make some sense to her. As I had told the forum, honesty works in all directions, and that was an honest answer to my emotional feelings. The best analogy I can give is this: suppose you went to the Grand Canyon and wanted a photo of it. You have about an hour to get “the shot” you want. But being mere tourists, and amateur photographers, you don’t have the professional’s luxury of waiting days for just the right shot at just the right time in just the right conditions. If clouds and mist are there on the day you visit, you’ll get clouds and mist in the photo. But the Grand Canyon still will be the Grand Canyon. To me, this analogy applies in the sense of, “Here’s how I am at the moment, but conditions can become more favorable. What you’re getting is today’s snapshot.” I didn’t string at that analogy so much with her, but I’d be interested in what any of the others of you think about it. What I couldn’t do is lie and say that all the emotional feelings were gone.<P>At one point I said, “I don’t know what chance we have in the future but I know we didn’t have ANY if I didn’t tell you this.” And to that she readily agreed.<BR> <BR>I did speak to her by phone briefly Sunday night about a couple of things. I’m self-employed and my office is in the home, but not in the main living area. It’ll be OK for me to be in my office at the house during the day, at least for a few days, trying to put things away. I don’t know what the longterm is for that particular matter; I don’t really have a place to put it all, but she doesn’t have any need for the space, so I suspect it’ll remain intact for awhile. <P>As for me, well...it's a sad time. No way this wouldn’t be painful to go through.<P>Ivory<p>[This message has been edited by Ivory (edited January 14, 2001).]

Ivory,<P>How do *you* feel after all of this? Do you want to go back home? Do you want to go into counseling with your W? <P>belld

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ivory:<BR><B>I’m just giving it time--clearly this is her time to control matters.</B><P>This is a great point to remember.<P>Where did you go to stay?<P>I'm sure the OW is bouncing off the walls with curiousity...she hasn't tried to contact you?<P>I'm glad to hear your W talking about counseling. One thing people should remember about counseling is that you may have to meet a few before you get the right chemistry. And, if you believe in MB, you might ask the counselor if they are familiar with the concepts or use the program.<P>My first counselor gave me the web address.<P>Hang in there, Ivory.<P>Mike<BR>

Answering questions: Do I want to go back home? Emotions still are iffy, but as an act of the will, I do. After all, we have an investment of time in the relationship and if it can be restored it would be a good thing. One of the things I asked for when I left was a box of cards and letters from me--dating back to 1986--and as I read through some of them last night I thought, "Who *IS* that guy?" Very loving, upbeat, effusive...so, there's no question (nor was there ever) who changed in this relationship.<P>I am committed to joint counseling if my wife wants to do it. Individual counseling is a given, whichever way things go. .... Motel 6 is where I am at the moment. .... OW has made no attempt to contact me.<P>I'm heading over to the house in a moment to start to put my office in shape and to finish raking the leaves. <P>Thanks for the concern.<P>Ivory

Ivory,<P>I'm sorry she asked you to leave. I would have if I hadn't first talked to Jenn Harley. Because of the concepts I was exposed to, I knew the very night he confessed that I wanted to save this marriage. That is why I had suggested it would help to set it up this way...<P>Many here say that it is an LB to attempt to "educate" your spouse, but I think it always comes down to HOW it is done.<P>My h had bought and read Surviving an Affair even before he confessed. He was a rock in many ways. Even though he was emotionally not there for me, he never wavered on his DECISION to pursue the marriage and his HOPE that we could get what we so desparately wanted if we did the right things.<P>If your W has not been exposed to any of this, she may well feel there is no hope for rebuilding your marriage.<P>It is hard to accept the withdrawal. If she were willing to come to this forum, she could learn for herself. There are some WS who cheated, but never developed feelings for the OW. But many of us have been where your W is.<P>You can have that love with your W, but you have a long road to climb. The issues that were there before the A are still there to be worked on, but first you have to dig yourself out of the pit you have placed both of you in.<P>How do you feel?<P>I recognize your feelings to give her space to be in control, but I don't think being apart is as good as being together. Even when it is sooo painful, you keep talking. <P>At least for me, I wanted to be with him, in the midst of the pain we connected in ways we never had. We were on a cruise two days after he confessed, and it was filled with tears (I couldn't eat), lots of talk, and making love...While he was telling me he was not "in-love" with me, we were reaching out to each other with an intensity that belied the words we said...

Schizzo,<P>Well, my way of thinking is that I have to go through the withdrawal under any circumstance. Since we're talking about an eventual transference of emotional bond from OP back to W, isn't there a case for the W being nearby, to make that part of it more natural? But that's Mars thinking, and in any event I don't plan on advising her as to what she should do. I'm sure she will come around to thinking about this a little differently. I can manage in the meantime.<P>Ivory

Ivory,<P>I've been following your posts, but haven't responded until now. I'm glad that you told your wife. Now, the real work begins! You're on the right path!<P>Have you told your wife that you have been posting on Marriage Builders? If not, I think it would be a great idea to direct her to this site. She will see that you honestly want to work on the marriage & that you are educating yourself as to how your marriage got to this point & how to recover.<P>It will also give her support among people who are experiencing the same difficulties, from betrayed & wayward spouses.<P>Good luck to both of you. It will be a lot of work, but it will all be worth it!<BR>

Ivory,<BR>So far it sounds like things are as good as can be expected.<P>Besides dealing with your office and planning on counseling with your wife, what are your immediate plans?<P>If the OW did contact you, what would you do? Since you will WANT to talk with her or see her, maybe you should plan in advance how you will react, so you are thinking with your head and not your heart.<P>I don't know your wife, of course, but it may be awkward for her to contact you. She may feel a bit humiliated. Maybe you could seek her out without overstepping her bounderies?<P>I have to tell you I had the most interesting mixture of love/hate in those first few weeks. I needed so much to be held, even though I hated to admit it or seek it out. Our physical relationship was also intense and passionate. If I didn't have young kids at home, I am quite sure I would have asked him to leave and we would have missed out on those weird, but very bonding times.<P>Just remember she might be waiting for you to be a bit more bold and decisive in your approach.<P>If YOUR decision is truly made, then even though the pain of withdrawl is real and debilitating, you can work toward the feelings you want and the relationship you need to build through taking charge of your thoughts, words and actions.

Ivory,<P>My 2 cents is that you don't back down regarding wanting to work things out or come home and live together. If you do, she could take it to mean that you are iffy(sp?)regarding your comittment to work things out.<P>cleo

The most recent news is that she does want to try and work it out rather than head right for divorce court. She did see a counselor and that was helpful. We talked on the phone today for about 45 minutes and it went pretty well. The counselor 's advise seemed to be helpful to her and she seems to be someone my wife can continue to work with. In addition to the practical counseling about the deeper matters she also advised that we try to do "non-heavy" activities together, like see a movie so that we don't associate all of our interaction as heaviness. I know this is along the lines of the dating concept espoused here.<P> She is more understanding about the emotional withdrawal, although she still refers to how she can't see living around me while I am, quote, "Grieving for someone else."<P>I am coming to the house during the day and working in my office, with her blessing.<P>That's about it for now. Thanks for everyone's continuing concern.<P>Ivory

Ivory,<P>Your W's response is very normal. When I first found out, the very first thing I did after the reality of it sank in was to contact a divorce attorney. A marriage was made for two people, not for three, was my thinking. A lot of it had to do with my own ego, as well - what would people think, if I "let my H get away with it" and take him back? <P>Love for a WS is hard to sift out among the rubble of anger, resentment and wounded pride. Give her time, and when I say "time," I mean TIME. It might take your W years to get over this - would you be able to accept that and do what it takes during her recovery period? <P>belld

She has suffered through her share of years with me, in terms of emotional detachment, so I certainly couldn't make a case for putting a time restriction on her. In reality, though, we both agree that we don't want to continue to live like that. If we are to stay married, then we want to enjoy emotional intimacy, as it is supposed to be enjoyed between man and wife. <P>A return to the status quo prior to the A would make no sense whatsover and is not an option, and in fact would feed her fears of dishonesty and cheating on my part. To stay married we will have to get back to where we were for about 10 seconds (smile) and then start advancing beyond that to palpable improvement.<P>Ivory

Breakfast with a friend turned into an opportunity for more insights, as he revealed that he had had an EA many years ago. He had many good points to make about the true cause of A's as well as hope for recovery from withdrawal. We visited for about three hours. <P>I'm still emotional but somewhat more hopeful today than yesterday. Had a reasonably good telephone visit with W this afternoon. Still not home. <P>I filled out the ENQ myself last night, and left one at home for W to fill out, telling her (in a note) that we could compare results later. Of course, I won't look very good on her ENQ but that's not surprising, as I've not been meeting hardly any of her emotional needs (surprising it wasn't her that had the A). My ENQ did not reveal anything of substance in terms of EN's she is not meeting, which concerns me in the sense that one of Harley's main premises is that when the EN's are uncovered and met by the BS, the man and wife can enjoy the love they were meant to enjoy. If no unmet EN's are uncovered, where does that leave the premise?<P>I would expect that in the absence of unmet EN's, deeper emotional or psycho-emotional factors within me may be at the root of the behavior. Hopefully counseling could uncover this, if true.<P>Ivory