Did I miss a post?<P>Why does this post, your situation, your arguments seem so much like Confused_MI from the D/D board?????? Did I miss something here? <P>Hey, Sheryl, whaddya think?<P>But, if you're not, since the two of you seem to have exactly the same justifications and personality, do a search if you have time and read what I said to him...ditto here. Not that I don't have plenty to say , but if you'll read that, I'll take up from there....yup, there's ALWAYS more!<P>Lori

For crying out loud... <B>Lori</B>... I can't believe I missed it... I think you might be RIGHT! (Not that you aren't *always* right my perfect and beautiful darling )...<P>WOW, I wonder!!!

yes lori, if that is important, I didn't like my name that much, and I feel kind of sad and lonely (as well as confused, but folks figured I was confused anyways). So no need to repeat your thoughts from before. I kinda figured my story would be obvious, but repeated enuf stuff for those who did not already know me (which seemed to be everyone, until cheryl replied). Then I posted something here, and it just kind of seemed to evoke more interest. It might have been cheryl (but someone anyways) who suggested gq2 was a better place to get feedback, they were right. Anyways for any who are interested, I posted a couple of posts under confusedin MI on d/d board when I initially found MB a couple weeks ago. Is mostly the same as what I have posted here though. And no lori, I was not trying to escape from you <p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited May 01, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vernon3:<BR>[B]Winddancer....Bravo.<P>The day before I found out of my H EA, he told he in these EXACT words...."You are my life".<P>Now, I am condescending, vindictive, nitpicky, and basically mean....those are all his words also.<P>I suspected an A for a long time and during the A, my H continued to tell me "We have a good life together, we love each other, have the same interests and the sex is better than ever." Now he says we married for all the wrong reasons. He hasn't been happy for a long time. He only stayed for the children. He'd rather live alone than be this unhappy.<P>Winddancer..you are right. If S&L has truly felt the way he says he has, for a long time, then it is basically cruelty to his wife.<P>I still believe it is "The Fog".<P>HI, Vernon,<BR>Yep! I hear you loud and clear and want to tell you how sorry I am for what you are going through. It's a really rotten thing to have happen, isn't it? It must have been horrible for you, being told one day you are his world, and the next day, you are the source of his pain. With my H, it was a bit different in that we had a five month separation due to a job change (his), in a new city and state. At the time, I had major surgery and was recuperating from it, so I couldn't go with him right away. That little bit of time apart was all the encouragement he needed, apparently. That, plus someone who was waiting in the wings to snag herself a nice boytoy (she's older than him, but not by much)was all the "ammo" he needed. It had nothing to do with anything other than raging hormones and a sense of momentary freedom for him and some good times for her. Ironically, the OW is a mutual friend of ours and I bet you dollars to doughnuts that HER H doesn't know about this, either. As far as I can tell, it did not progress to the PA stage, but believe me, the EA was a very powerful thing in itself. In fact, I think it's more deadly than a PA in some respects. As for fog, he was so far into fog that his eye glasses needed wipers! That's a good analogy, huh? Eyes are blinded to reality and truth by the fog--a very apt description!<P>Anyway, no matter what the circumstances, being betrayed by the one you love and trust is about the most horrible experience a person can have. I would MUCH rather he had come to me outright and said, "Look...it's over. I'm tired and want newer, greener pastures." But, that isn't the case and never was. He just wanted some fun in his life and once that took over, all common sense and decency went out the window. Lies, deceit, hiding things, sneaking around: what a wonderful way to start a new relationship. Ugh!<P>Wishing you peace in your life now and in the future,<BR>Winny

Know what sad_and_lonely? I'm very angry with you. Wanna know why? Because you were not HONEST with us.<P>Honesty is the benchmark of MB. Of course, the idea is to be honest with your spouse, not us, but I have always believed that honesty on these boards was paramount.<P>I have poured out my soul to you, both here and as confused_in_MI... take my words and use them as you may...<P>I have never ever gotten this upset with a poster, but I personally feel duped, and that makes me feel foolish and silly. I don't like to feel foolish and silly.<P>Best wishes to you sad_and_lonely, seriously. <P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited May 01, 2001).]

Well, well, it's good to see you're still around. Same old, same old's not flying over here, either, I see.<P>Look, you're in a bad state and we all know that. And, to tell you the truth, I do feel for you. Just wanted you to know that one (or two) of us are still listening and still care. Not that I agree , but I do care.<P>Since you OBVIOUSLY don't want me to continue with my arguments (Tee Hee, can't understand why), I'm gonna leave you, for just a while, to some of the wiser folk here. <P>I would like for you to think about one thing, though.....<P>A couple of us have stated, for the record, that not all marriages can be saved...<P>No matter how unique you think you may be, haven't you noticed that a whole lot of folks can almost predict what you're gonna say? Now, I've figured out by now, even with my dim brain, that you're pretty smart. Instead of thinking of more arguments and justifications when you read a reply, why don't you start seeing what FACTS you can pick up here? YOU know what I mean.<P>And remember, this is from the woman who gave you an out...who said that it might be ok to leave this marriage IF you do it the right way, not in the midst of all this emotional turmoil. That's pretty fair, huh?<P>I'll keep checking on you....'cause I really do care. Glad you stuck around.<P>Lori<BR>

Nor did I think it would lori (fly), but why do you think I am not interested in your thoughts, I have not said that. Just seems more discussion over here than on the other board, for whatever reason. As for you cheryl, have no idea why you feel as you do, but I have appreciated your comments too. f you somehow feel I violated a board protocol, my apologies. But frankly I cannot see how changing my name and then talking to people I don't even know, and who were not on other board at all makes you feel duped. If it is any consolation, when you first appeared in this thread, and didn't seem to make the connection, I contemplated somehow letting you know, but the annonymity here seemed to make that um......not quite as pressing as maybe real life, and the subject matter was somewhat different. Still you clearly repeated yourself some, and I could have spared you that time, I am sorry.

S&L u just recently posted this below about TELLING the OW's husband. Seems to me this would be your perfect way out of the marriage. But in this post it sounds like you threatened your W that if she tells OW's H then you are leaving. Stop being a wussy and leave already, if you are that miserable, unloved, belittled for 23 years. On several posts you describe your wife as a shrew who never loved you, then in another you say how she does love. Do you even bother to read what you type or how confusing you sound. If you are that confusing to a bunch of strangers I can imagine the sad life your wife had to lead with all the mixed messages you give to try to persuade others to your view! Make up your mind already, either she is a bad wife or she isn't a bad wife. Either your W loves you or she doesn't love you. Either she belittled you for all of your marriage or she is JUST NOW starting to do due to the knowledge of your affair. It seems you want out of the marriage but are too scared to leave because no one will be there to hold your hand so u won't be alone. And in MHO it sounds just like that, you want out but since OW won't leave you will stay where it is comfortable and come here to try to get people to talk you into it or make up your mind for you. You talk a good game, but after the first few post it all sounds like the typical childish-cheating-spouse-jibberish of "I'M TOO SCARED TO LEAVE IF I HAVE TO BE ALONE"<BR>"Hmmmmm.... I have told my wife if she ever calls the ow, much less husband, I am through. My motivation is protection of the ow, this is my/our problem, and my wife needs to deal with me, no one seduced me, I freely chose. Is not her place to meddle in someone elses life. I am of the mind that marital secrets are between husband and wife, no one elses business. If the ow wants to tell her husband, is her choice, I have told her (ow) do what she must, and not spare me in any way (husband is on record as saying he would shoot anyone she had an affair with, oh well), but is up to her. OTOH I can appreciate a certain civic component to knowledge of an affair, a sort of peer pressure thingy, and one of the risks of having an affair. I guess the consequences of an affair can be so severe, that exposure is justified in the interest of common decency. I can live with that. I would sure want to know. For the record, I do have secrets from my wife (she feels it, but I refuse to discuss it, and will leave if pushed), I feel my right to privacy transcends all other rights, including marital rights. However, if I reconcille with her, I will tell her all, right now I am in the divorce mode, so don't feel she needs to know. I accepted without any discussion when I crossed the line with the ow, that someone may find out and tell, including her family. It is unrealistic to think otherwise. Affairs are a strange animal, as a ws I can say my primary motivartion for secrecy was simply not to be meddled with till I understood myself what I wanted (duh, I guess). But also, self-serving as it may sound, it was also to spare my wife this grief. Just do the right thing, and either quit the affair, or get divorced. I understand this is not fair to her, she has a right to know for her psychological well-being. So I guess I am conflicted, and may very well simply be motivated by not wanting to face the music. But one thing I have not, and will not do, is blame her for my choice"<BR>

whoa nelly try, I have never described my wife as a shrew, you need to go a little easy putting words in other mouths...k?<P>Well, must say your rhetoric is um........ attention getting for sure. Let me suggest it is tough to put 23 years of marriage into a few posts on a board, and you are jumping to more that a few erroneous conclusions. But be that as it may, being scared is the least of my worries. I have no fear whatsoever of being alone, or not having someone hold my hand. Mostly I am just trying to figure out what the right thing to do is. In addition I am trying to state my mind as it is, and not edit what I say so folks won't criticize me, no doubt I appear confused, I AM confused, that is why I am talking about this stuff, instead of just doing something (be it leave or stay). The post you referred to was a seperate issue, dealing with disclosure to an unknowing BS, my comments on that referred to that particular circumstance. Not so much about whether I leave or not.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:<BR><B>Nor did I think it would lori (fly), but why do you think I am not interested in your thoughts, I have not said that. Just seems more discussion over here than on the other board, for whatever reason. As for you cheryl, have no idea why you feel as you do, but I have appreciated your comments too. f you somehow feel I violated a board protocol, my apologies. But frankly I cannot see how changing my name and then talking to people I don't even know, and who were not on other board at all makes you feel duped. If it is any consolation, when you first appeared in this thread, and didn't seem to make the connection, I contemplated somehow letting you know, but the annonymity here seemed to make that um......not quite as pressing as maybe real life, and the subject matter was somewhat different. Still you clearly repeated yourself some, and I could have spared you that time, I am sorry.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can't put my finger on why I feel so strongly... and it isn't "board protocol" ... and of course you are right about the annonymity of the net... I am a total honesty person, much to my detriment at times. The problem was not that you changed your name and posted, it's that you changed your name, came on without saying who you were, and... and... well, shoot, I don't know what it is. I just personally feel like something is wrong here.<P>I do accept the apology for making me repeat myself, although that wasn't the end of the world or anything since I enjoy the sound of my own voice so much. <P>Take care.<BR>

S&L... you analyze way too much and while you have spent 23 years working at this marriage alone... she now wants to try too... so what is your problem? you resent the fact that she now wants to try? you resent the fact that she said she didnt love you? me thinks you think too much (which by the way my H accuses me of this also )<BR>ok here it goes... breath in breath out breath in breath out... clear your mind and ponder if maybe you are thinking too much and not allowing yourself to feel and drop your defenses and make a decision and just give your ole lady one more chance ,, how bout it cowboy?<BR>C1

S&L,<BR>Many of us are here because we have been offended at some point in our lives due to circumstances beyond our control. Finding out that a poster here has done somewhat the same thing is disconcerting to say the least. <P>However, if you do admit you are both sad and confused and truly want help, you are in the right spot. The help will be like good medicine, designed to help heal your soul. It is up to you to take it. <P>I have read your post and many of the responses. I would like to share a viewpoint. You mentioned about keeping secrets from your wife. My H did the same thing. Please let me share how this affected me. I am a strong person usually able to take a lot of flack. Type of business I am in requires that as part of my job. Anyway when my H made a secret life with OW, I was kept in the dark. This is how I felt. I described it to my H as a mother (we have 1 child) carrying her child in a dark room. No light anywhere, pitch black. In this dark room there are objects of various shapes and sizes spread throughout the room. Here I am carrying my young child and stumbling in the dark. Normally a parent carrys their child in the front of them, securely holding them. Yet, even in this position I felt uneasy. If I were to trip and fall, the first person to hit the ground and be hurt would be my child and then me. Could I do this as a parent? Would my H want to see his entire family fall and be hurt possible fatally? This is how I described it to my H. This is how I really felt then and do now. <P>It is a scary feeling, S&L, to be kept in the dark. This is the cruelist thing a mate can do to their spouse. Have an A and keep their spouse in the dark. Like stabbing your mate and twisting the knife of the A is how it feels to the BS. I apologize for being so graphic but from this end there is not other way for me to describe it. <P>The real graphic part is the horrible agony the BS's go through. The nightmares, sleepless nights, pain of heart and soul, anguish and distress, anxiety attacks, fear of the unknown, thrown out in the cold, being evicted and discarded. This is the reality of what an A can do. <P>You speak of the bad relationship you have with your W. My H said similar things to the OW. In fact I had the unfortunate privilege (being sacarastic here) of having to listen to the 23 messages that OW left over the last 3 days. All her ideas of how she was going to make sure everyone was 'pleased' especially herself. I will detail the sordid message on my own post later, but I think you get the idea. <P>There is no pain greater than what a BS has to bear. If there was pain greater than that in your marriage, then you would have gotten out long ago for the sake of your wife and children. Because they are suffering now because the A.<P>You are welcome to post here to help your marriage. I know that I can not justify your wanting an A. Your marriage ought to be good enough to fight for or leave irregardless of another person waiting in the wings. <P>These are my heartfelt thoughts. <P>L.<p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited May 02, 2001).]

Orchid I have no real defense for keeping the a secret, it is indefensible, but you do it anyways, guess that is the nature of the beast. I can only say I acted quickly when I realized what was happening, whether I acted rightly is a whole nother issue. But as soon as I realized where my emotions were going I agreed to a divorce. The overlap between affair and divorce suggestion was very short. I would not have kept the secret very long (actually I am pitiful at secrets, and she allready pretty much knew). I really wish we had divorced first before I found myself in this circumstance, but I didn't. She now really believes the affair is the big issue, and not the marital discord, I feel is not, but will never be able to convince her, so must live with guilt for the pain I never intended to cause her, she in no way deserved this. Much is written about the dirty rotten ow blah blah blah. This ow would like nothing better than for me to reconcille with my wife, she has in no way encouraged me to leave her, and has challenged me vigorously on these issues, much as you have. We started as friends, and like each other in that way, she never asked for any of this either. I led step by step, she followed. So yeah we are equally culpable, but it was not about decieveing spouses, it was just about being friends when we knew our spouses would object. Actually both spouses know we exist, we did not hide our initial friendship, what we concealed was the emotional attachment that ensued. Both complained at some point about spending too much time on-line, we just went deeper, and became more discreet. The big question is always "why", then we talk about fog...it really is not all that complicated, we just like each other, and feel emotionally safe with each other. Neither of us ever dreamed would lead to this. Lead to questioning everything we believed in, and lead to resisting being seperated. I tell you this so maybe you can understand, it is not about my wife being rejected, it is about me and my choices. She did nothing wrong, but I know that is of little comfort.

S_n_L<P>I guess I'm just a little nosey but I popped in here to see what all the hoopla was about.<P>First I want to comment on what you said in another post about this being a BS support board - no it is not - it is a marriage support board. there are people here on both sides of the fences. The one thing that ties most of us together is we want to save our marriages - or if that is not possible (because of the choices of others) then save ourselves.<BR>In essence that is what plan A is about - being abetter us, not for our spouse but for ourseleves.<P>Anyway,<P>I must admit I didn't read all of your posts but what I did read was so reminicent of posts my H had entered more than a year ago.<P>He admits now he was in "the fog" - but at the time would get very defensive if anybody suggested it to him. - He deleted a bunch of his posts out of anger but you could try a search in the Read Only section - there may be some left there. His user names were<BR>Being a Better Arik<BR>and<BR>2 Soulmates<P>I am not saying that you are in the fog -<BR>I'm not saying that anybody here knows you better than you know yourself<BR>But you must know that the people that post here - betrayers and betrayed alike write to people because they care.<BR>Divorce is not necessarily wrong <BR>but...<BR>Infidelity is wrong. It doesn't matter what the state of your marriage is. It is wrong. It hurts so many people - so many more than you can even realize. The stress that you carry as betrayer goes into your life and effects the people around you. <BR>The stress that your OW is carrying is affecting the lives of everybody around her.<BR>My H's affair nearly destroyed me. I was completely broken by it - I trusted him and believed in him - and he hurt me more than words can say.<BR>Please don't take this as a judgement call<BR>I really don't intend to judge<BR>Just think about all the people you will affect with this affair<BR>Listen to the good people on the boards. They really are good people - they just want to help.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole

C1, well...yes one can analyze too much eventually, but I am not there yet. I need to understand what is happening, and have little experience to draw upon. My choices have far reaching consequences and I need to give them much thought. In a way it can be easier to just do what others tell you, but I was never that way, I have to do the work and decide for myself. The flip sife is once I decide, I am a pretty committed person. Hence the difficulty rethinking my divorce decision. It took me years to finally agree with what my wife supposedly wanted (divorce). But it was my choice, not just going along with her, and once made, it is very hard for me to rethink it. However, since she now says she never meant it, and to plz forgive her and reconsider, I am rethinking it, something I rarely do, but I figure I owe her that much. The downside is I must somehow convince myself the divorce decision was wrong, and that is not easy to do. We talked about this some tonight, we rarely talk about me (not allowed) but I did tell her I was very angry she said she wanted a divorce all these years, but didn't mean it. Ya know, honesty works both ways, I may have had an affair and kept it secret, but she was emotionally dishonest too in a very serious way. If she did not mean it, then she was using it as a manipulative weapon, and folks that hurts alot too. Rejection comes in a lot of forms. Maybe affairs are at the top of the list, but having your spouse tell you over and over (for years) you are not worthy of their love, and they want a divorce is not much fun either.<P>Nicole...thx for your comments. And I agree the stress of an affair is not healthy, and should be dealt with as quickly as possible, not viewed as a solution. I don't yet know how this will all end, but it will and is ending. What I do know is I will never be involved in another.

Sl,<P>I have been reading this post for days & have it found very interesting. Like many others here have said, you sound like my WH including your take on the Bible & divorce, he like you once held strong views but now faced with feelings for someone else, he has found Biblical ways to justify his feelings.<P>Most everyone has give you opinions feelings, advice etc, it has all been stated more eloquently than I can do so. <P>However I have a few thoughts:<P>You have mentioned several times how different ya'll are, have you done any personality testing, you might find it helpful. There are some here who know a great deal about it, & feel it is helpful. I believe there is an on going post on the Emotional Needs board dealing with this subject.<P>The other point you made mention of your children. I believe you still have one at home. Think carefully before you do anything if for no other reason than that child. Go read my threads about my son, my H thought his actions wouldn't effect our sons, he still will not admit to that being part of the problem. Teenagers have enough trial & tribulations without the parents adding to it.<P>My WH has cause me nothing but pain, hardship, heartache for the past 2 years but I would stay for eternity if the OW was no longer in the picture.<P>I pray that you find peace & happiness in your marriage. May God grant that to both you & your W.<P>sing<BR>

Well, it looks like this is going nowhere, in as much as some would like for you to see the BS's POV, so....why not turn it around and see if you can help us?<P>You say you don't love your wife and never did. Was this a revelation before, during, or after the A? If it was before, did you continue to say you loved her, when in reality, you were just waiting for the kids to grow up so you could leave? Were you just going through the motions, quietly planning your escape?<P>What could your wife have done differently in the past re her controlling behavior that would have caused you to WANT to rebuild your marriage?<P>If it had been your wife that had the A (not recently) but sometime in the past, would you have given her another chance?<P>Your W is obviously very hurt (and rightly so), do you feel like you are the one that is hurting by her angry outburst etc. And if so, why is your hurt justifiable and hers is just another example of why you were not meant for each other.<P>How do you expect your W to react to the discovery of your EA? Do you want her to just keep her mouth shut and not say anything? Do you want her to kick you out? Do you want her to never cry, never feel lonely and betrayed and just go on with her life and never try to understand the pain?<P>How do you feel when your wife can't eat, sleep, function normally? How does it make you feel to know she has been crying uncontrollably? Do you think her weak and dependant?<P>Last...How did YOU fail this marriage?<P>I want to understand. If I don't get a response... well then maybe I have.<p>[This message has been edited by vernon3 (edited May 02, 2001).]

Personally I think S&L has dissected his situation enough and has gotten enough feedback that he should by now figure out that while everyone here understands that this is a posting for "recovering and improving" marriages,, he has all he needs to make the commitment to try or get out... like they say "sh*t or get off the pot" I cant imagine the amount of worrying your W has done trying to figure out which way you are going to go with this... you have us on pins and needles...<BR>C1

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Concerned1:<BR><B>Personally I think S&L has dissected his situation enough and has gotten enough feedback that he should by now figure out that while everyone here understands that this is a posting for "recovering and improving" marriages,, he has all he needs to make the commitment to try or get out... like they say "sh*t or get off the pot" I cant imagine the amount of worrying your W has done trying to figure out which way you are going to go with this... you have us on pins and needles...<BR>C1</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>This is for Vernon and Concerned, <BR>I agree whole heartedly with both of you, and think your repsonses were great.<P>Now..a last word or two thousand from me on this topic: <BR>I could very easily BE SL's spouse. Honest...this is my situation now. My H is "on the pot", and unable to make a decision. At least, SL has admitted to his W that he is involved with another woman. My H is still in the fog, and denies his A to the hilt. (Trust me..I know better. All kinds of proof including a love letter I found from OW to him). <P>The really horrible thing is that I am in this terrible state of not knowing anything--and that means about the past, recent or otherwise, as well as the present and the future. The deep emotional turmoil, fear, insecurity and psychological pain I feel are a thousand times worse than any of the physical pain I've endured with my illness and I still have to face THAT, each and every day. To me, being kept in the dark is the cruelest thing he or anyone else has ever done to me. It's like a terminal illness: you know the end is coming but you just don't know when.<P>To me, there is no pain worse than suspecting strongly that an A is going on and yet not knowing for SURE. Of course, I know that if and when that day comes I will feel crushed all over again (and probably even worse than I feel right now!), but at least the wondering, hoping I'm wrong yet knowing I cant' be and all of that ugly stuff will STOP. <P>SL's wife is going through hell, I am sure, but it sounds like he is, too. Only the two of them can find a resolution to their problems and make their appropriate choices. No matter what we all say here on MB, nothing can change that simple fact, and we all know it. It's time for SL and his wife to sit down together like two rational, sane adults and TALK about their lives, even if it takes a professional moderator to help. <P>I've done that with my own H, but like I said, we can't progress too far unless he starts being honest with me. I am trying Plan A as much as I can, but don't expect too much success until we crack that barrier.<P>Good luck to all and peace ahead,<BR>Winny<p>[This message has been edited by Windancer (edited May 02, 2001).]

Wow. So many excellent viewpoints. I'd like to take a minute or two to respond to a few of them... hope no one feels left out - there are so many posts here.<P>Just Learning: How I wish that my husband had decided to go in the direction you took instead of the direction he has taken. I presume, from your description of the direction you took, that you have read "Divorce Busting" or one of Michele Weiner-Davis's other books? If not, then I highly recommend you do so. There is every possibility that you may find a way to make your marriage more INTERACTIVELY rewarding ... changing your wife by changing the way in which you interact with her. It is wonderful that you came here to find a way to make your marriage work BEFORE allowing yourself the luxury of breaking it up in some way.<P>NoMas - yikes ... I was hoping that I wouldn't have to disagree with you anymore. I know that I gave you the same sh** that I have given S&L here. But I have to address the 'fog' issue that you brought up. You compare it to the 'fog' of being young and in love - contemplating or planning marriage. Not even close. Young people planning marriage are definitely on a high - but their 'fog' if you must call it that, is very different. There is no one else they are hurting as they act on their 'impulses'. They are not going against every belief they held dear ... they are not being unfaithful to someone to whom they have made a lifetime committment. Perhaps they don't really know what lies beyond the next curve - but, they are the only ones on the road. Also, I have to admit that I took offense to this little bit: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am thinking that folks here define 'fog' as some emotional factor that hinders rational thinking. Well, I would hope...that hurting, WS would admit, that their own pain, which runs deep, can certainly cloud their thinking and judgment. They are just on the opposite spectrum of emotional feelings. Many of the things they do and say are done out of the pain that has been inflicted upon them. And who can blame them? They will do and say things, that they would not have done under normal ircumstances<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The main difference, right off the top, is that the betrayed have no control over what is happening to them - so to me, there is no comparison. And I need to tell you that the pain inflicted on me by my husband and the slug made my mind clearer than it had been for the previous few years... I became a stronger, better, happier human being because of the pain that was inflicted upon me, not a foggy confused person. That is not to say that some may not react way differently - but there is still no comparison, and I resent that you even have attempted to make one. I'll get over it, but I had to let you know that.<P>Oh ... there are more things I'd like to say, but I've already been up way way way later than I should be, so I'll close for now and maybe I'll come back and post some more.<P>Aren't you glad I warned you? <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>