My husband and I had been separated almost a year, and it was becoming apparent that our differences were truly irreconciliable. Most of these differences had to do with alcoholism, abuse, and expectations. This was not the first time we discussed EN's. I thought this conclusion was made calmly, in a kitchen conversation about needs, etc. Still, we remained friendly and occasionally did family things (maybe twice a month, dinner and a video). <P>Weeks later, out of the blue, I received a spate of hate email from my husband, vilifying me as the most unreasonable, contentious, impossible shrew he has ever lived his life with. Blow after blow, this man castigated me, criticizing my religion, my unreasonable demands, and my "ocean of emotional needs" he can never meet. It was awful. He accused me of expecting him to be so pure that why don't I "marry a man of the cloth." I was emotionally pummelled for not working, although I worked 7 jobs last year. I've been on an extended leave of absence since my husband's last affair and the discovery I was bipolar. I've been working as a freelance writer. He has attacked me in the past, but never so viciously. He completely rejected me, demanding that we divorce because there was no possible way he'd ever come back. I was blindsided.<P>I very soon realized he was attempting to keep me away because he had involved himself in another affair, an exit affair I gather. I am devastated not so much that he is with another woman, but that not only is my marriage gone, but my divorce has been taken away from me (in a sense). He is not aware that I have knowledge and documentation about his affair. I'm afraid of this guy's anger and his wrath. I have had to cut all forms of communication off from this man because he has become a hostile button pusher. I have no family here, no help in my struggles. I truly feel emotionally abandoned, and blinded by my circumstance. Perhaps my expectation of having a helpful, go-at-you-own-speed divorce was way out there. We had talked about doing all the filing ourselves. Just when I thought I was emerging from the well of codependency, I slip and fall back.<P>Now, what is foggy about this situation, you MB gurus?<P>Nell :cool"<P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

I'm certainly not an MB guru, but I empathize with your situation. My H is an alcoholic and a drug addict living with his OW and doing everything he can to make our divorce more difficult. The hate definitely seems to increase in response to their having an affair, or as in my H's case, renewing his affair. Sorry I have no words of wisdom except to go to Al-Anon and work the program. It's helping me to gain some serenity despite the continued button pushing.

I'm sorry Nell. I don't really have any answers for you. I guess you know it's typical for WS to lash out at BS to justify what their doing. I think it is self-hatred, rather than hatred toward their BS that they really feel.<P>Take care of yourself and you'll make it through this. We're here for you.<BR>((((((HUG))))))))

Nell:<P>In addition to the marital problems, you also cite alcohol. Until he overcomes that, there is no way you can begin to approach the former.<P>Another factor, too, is that the WS will lash out, push buttons to make you react hostilely, thus justifying them having the affair.<P>Do not try to apply logic to someone who is (a) in the fog, and (b) drinking excessively.<P>Read up on Plan B. And most definitely start working on YOU.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

<<<B>Do not try to apply logic to someone who is (a) in the fog, and (b) drinking excessively.<P>Read up on Plan B. And most definitely start working on YOU.</B>>><P>You can add (c) in denial.<P>Boned up on B alright. Even go for a refresher now and then. I expect nothing will change through the divorce process. He is not wrong. He is never wrong. We only communicate through our attorneys, and are in the middle of a contentious divorce battle (another story). The "child exchange program" was established a year ago, so we can do that virtually without looking at each other. Thank goodness for shopping malls.<P>I try to focus on myself, but like everything else, my efforts wax and wan with my level of depression. I guess I've been slipping down into my well lately. When I saw the other thread about foggy spouses spewing hate, it reminded me of my situation. I want some attention, some support, I guess. I only left a snippet of my saga here, while I wrote an entire tome on another board. <P>I've traversed an amazing journey since late 1998. Here I am at the end of it all, and I don't want to end my marriage. I wish I didn't feel this way, because it would be so unhealthy to even try to reconcile. I have tried, really for 5 years to save our marriage (the real interesting stuff started happening in '98). I can't believe how scared I am, having been through so much. I can't tell if I'm standing on a cliff or a river bank. If I could wish us well, I would.<P>Thanks for your support. I'm grateful to have you in my life.<P>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

I posted my story on "Divorced and Divorcing." It is truly soap opera fodder. I'm feeling quite depressed, so I hope to hear from more of you. <P>Hit me with your best shot,<BR>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

Dear Nell,<P>How are you doing today? You are an amazing woman to be putting up with all this and still he comes back with more memories from the fog? <P>He sounds like he is laying his guilt on you. You are better than that and should give it back. Have you e-mailed a response? I am really the one pushing for putting the guilt from the Ws back to the WS. Hard to do but it does for the most part provide relief to the BS. <P>Hope I am not being too harsh. I do want to support you. I want you to continue to be there for you and your family. Your H will come to the realization one day of who and what he is hurting. The fact that he thinks of communicating with you sounds like in his warped sense that he is letting you know he wants help. Funny, my H who is not an alcoholic admitted to the same stuff. He told BIL that O. really tries hard but the more she tries the more I want to give her a bad time. Logic in the fog? Go figure. <P>If you can pull some comfort that you are better than what your H is throwing at you, then send it back. Tell him, I read your words and it is in the past, H you have the opportunity to either get better with me or go with others who will take you as you are. <P>L.<BR>

Nell:<P>As far as I can remember from geography, Denial is a river in the Middle East given to fog, particularly early in the day and evening.<P>As far as co-dependency: is the affair or the drinking to which you are co-dependant?<P>Denial (c) is part of the fundamental equation:<P>fog = MS/A<P>(that is, fog equal Marital State divided by the affair)<P>where<P>MS = WS+BS*(-EN+LB)<BR>A = (OP+BS)*(D+OWR)<BR>OWR = PEN*LoRWI<P>where MS= Marital State;<BR> WS= Wayward Spouse;<BR> BS= Betrayed Spouse;<BR> EN= Emotional Needs<BR> PEN=Perceived Emotional Needs;<BR> LB= Love Busters;<BR> OP= Other Person;<BR> D = Denial and/or Deceitfulness;<BR> OWR=Other World Reality;<BR> LoRWI=Lack of Real World Intrusions<P>In other words: The Marital State (the two spouses' negative emotional needs times the number of lovebusters), is divided by the product of the affairees and the sum of their denial/deception and their perceived emotional needs.<P>Personally, I understand E=mc squared a lot better.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL<p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited July 14, 2001).]

{{{{{Orchid}}}}}<P>I have no communication with my WS whatsoever. I only hear snipets from my lawyer, and even that is rare. There is no giving him back anything. He is clinically a tit for tat, gonna have the last word if it kills you kind of person. The better I got at handing his crap right back at him, the more distorted his thinking became with lies and selective memory. He became adept at profuse, rapid-fire verbal assaults, even when there was no need. Knee-jerk reactions. He rewrote history. I never had a prayer with his offensively defensive tactics. If I had a need from him, and he perceived it as a threat or put-down, it got turned right around on me. And then some. Take that. You, you, you. Sheesh, all I asked for was to be treated better. I stayed in this marriage way, way longer than I should have. Now look at me. I made myself a shell of the woman I once was, and now I'm so sorry I allowed this to happen.<P>And if you didn't have this information from me, you would think he was the nicest guy in town. Hmmm...even kinda cute 'n sexy. He has the world fooled into believing he is a great guy, Father of the Year, takes his elderly mother to church on Sundays, dedicated career man, and HE'S the one done wrong in this marriage. HE tried to fill HER needs, but she's impossible! An endless vat. SHE won't accept him for who he is, which IS a part of what he chooses to do! HE gave and gave and gave, and all SHE did was take, take, take. And he WILL take care of HIS son, but he will NOT help HER, the mentally ill one.<P>Smoke bomb after smoke bomb after smoke bomb. I never could compete with that. It was so relentless, tiring, and cruel, I said eff-it. Close the door. Why subject myself to his madness? I have my own dragons to slay. I can't rise above the couch with him in my face, yelling in my ear, or sending yet another one of his exhaustingly complicated, repetitive letters. I love these words: Call my lawyer.<P>{{{{{STL}}}}}<P>Wheeeedoggies, yes east TN has 'lectricity. How do you think they hold thar twilight tent revivals? As far as a codependent, it is my husband I've had an addiction to. I'm sure you've read all this and are wondering who still performs lobotomies--let's get her one!<P>Is this New Math MB style? I'm going to have to copy this one and ponder it some more. <P>I'm in desperate need of a wiser friend I can lean on a little bit. Well, I might need to lean a lot at first. I have one friend who wants to not take her meds, come with me to court, and give my husband the look of death. That's scary. I need someone a tad more stable. I've spent the whole day writing posts; I haven't even gotten dressed. I just don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I'm more sad or lonely. I feel like a failure. I was stable and successful before I got married. All I have wanted was for him to help me get on my feet. He kept screaming that I'm taking advantage of him. He is counter-suing for custody, support, and his lawyer's fees. Why is he being so mean? I have so much evidence against him, but am I the one in the fog thinking I've got my case sewn up? <P>Anybody live in central Florida?<P>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck

Nell:<P>Glad to [hear] east TN hasn't gone the way of California, illumination-wise (sorry Cali) <smile>.<P>According to Samuel Johnson, math consists of derision, addiction, substriction and multification. I think he was way ahead of his time in these MB math terms.<P>Your H seems bent on earning a PhD in this "new" math. The anger he feels is based on his <I>perception</I> (remember, this is fog-induced logic) that you have wronged him in this process. You <I>forced</I> him to have affairs, after all.<P>His anger and lashing out at you probably stems from many factors, including alcohol (a depression enhancer), guilt, shame and God-knows-what else.<P>So, until the divorce continues apace, implement Plan B for YOU--since your addiction is your WH, Plan B lets you preserve whatever you still feel for him, while allowing you to work on breaking that chain of co-dependency. Try al-anon for some co-dependency help. While their thrust is alcohol-related, the concepts are transferrable to any form of co-dependency.<P>And, when the burdens seem insurmountable ... vent here. We are all each others' resource. To paraphrase Ethan Allen: we must all hang together for otherwise we will assuredly hang separately.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL<p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited July 14, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nell:<BR>[B<BR>Anybody live in central Florida?<P>[/B]<P>Nell, <BR> I'm close....where are you?<P>Lupo<P>

Lupo! I'm in Palm Bay, just south of Melbourne on the east coast. How about yourself? <P>Nell <P>------------------<BR>One faces the future with one's past.<BR>--Pearl S. Buck