Chaz- I want to thank you for starting this thread. You offer a painfully honest viewpoint of how the WS thinks. It has been quite helpful for me as a BS to read your posts and how your thought process worked. I believe I did create an environment that led up to my H's A-though I truly only understand that now that I am in recovery. I can identify with what you say the problems were in your marriage that led up to your having an A. Please keep posting here! lifeismessy

Marie and Schizzo,<P>As a fellow former doormat, I'm coming to realize, it's all about "balance".<P>Our spouses may have an extreme need for outside activities, but it's up to us to let them know of our needs as well--our need for our H's to strike a "balance" in their lives between their obligations to their marriage, their family, their responsibilities, their fun.<P>While we can't necessarily <I>control</I> how they go about choosing their itinerary for the day (that would be a bit "mothering" and manipulative), speaking up for our own needs and wishes IS within our control. <P>And Plan A'ing while we are doing so, goes along way to motivating "balance".<P>Were we all conflict avoiders before their A?<P>

I've been following this thread and I guess I oughta express my thanks and admiration to chaz for spilling his guts.<P>What also prompted me to reply was the reply by painforever - apparently another WS who was walked on by their spouse.<P>Well, I can identify with this very well, but I became the BS. So, the "imbalance" thing works both ways. Not only did I give, give, give to a controlling wife, she ended up having the affair with her best friend's husband and wrecked two families.<P>So what did I do? I continued giving. Is this wrong? Does this mean I'm a weakling? Maybe. OM's wife did the exact opposite and took the attack, attack, attack route.<P>But now I'm strong. My wife is desperately still trying to control me now, but can't. OM's wife is still attacking and hasn't learned anything, apparently, except how to take advantage of divorce laws in our state.<P>So, how are "strength" and "weakness" defined? Was I really a weak doormat, or actually strong and compassionate to resist temptation and become the WS?<P>Thanks to all on this thread for the thoughts.<P>WAT

Wow what a thread chaz! Everytime I read one of your posts it enlightens me. You are by no means a weak man in my book. I see you as incredibly strong for being able to come here and share your experience and feelings with us trying to help others. I'm sorry for the way your wife treated you in the past. Sometimes we don't even realize that we are controlling because it has become a way of life for us. As in my case I had control of everything, the house, the finances, the kids, whatever it was I handled it and my H allowed me to do so. My H is a wonderful man caring, loving, good father, good provider only I was the one that didn't have time to meet his needs emotionally and sexually because I had my priorities wrong. Everything came before him. It was more important for me to vacuum then to spend a half an hour with him before he went to bed. I never thanked him for the things he did for me I only critized him about the things he didn't do. He has admitted to me that he was miserable and we were both unhappy and when I told him to leave that was his way out. I look back now and think everyday if only I would have realized what I was doing to our marriage then. Today I see things much differently. Trying to spend time with my H is my top priority. Even though we are separated I cherish every moment I have with him. I love my H with all my heart and I am trying to show him this but he says he is not use to me treating him like this and sees it only as a plan to get him back home. I have no motive here other than to try and save my marriage. I have not been a perfect wife and it did take the two of us to get to where our marriage is today. I pray every day that my H sees the new me for who I am. A woman who was not perfect in her love for her H, a woman who thought she had to be all to everyone or she would have failed someone. Who I really failed was the most important person in my life my H. I cannot go back and change anything in our past I can only move forward and focus on my future and the future of my marriage. Thank you chaz for being the man that you are and for helping us see things from a different point of view.<BR>cybil

JustPlainCali<BR> Your story sounds justlike mine. I withdrew because I couldn't take the bossiness, the lecturing, the fighting. It was easier not to deal with it. I wish he'd have said something sooner. Wake up call "If you don't lose weight within 8 months I'm divorcing you". There was no discussion. I had tried losing weight many times before but because I felt I had no postive feedback in any other area of my life, that my life was worthles.. My kids are the only thing keeping me sane. HELLO---Now I realize I do love him alot, and am not ready to just give him up. I will learn to make my needs known. This has been quite a catalyst. I can't imagine the damage this is going to do to my kids if we do get divorced. I have told WH though that if he cannot start being honest with me there is no point. Yesterday I realized my own biggest fear was one of abandonment. I would never marry anybody else anyway, but would be lost until the end of my life because I feel when we started out that a commitment was a commitment. Once before a counselor asked me when I was going for depression councelling, why if I was so unhappy -even with s*x , why not have an affair...I looked at her in shock and said "do you think I would think it would be worth 2-10 minutes of hot great s*x to ruin the lives of my kids and husband? The price isn't worth it to me. She thought I had great insight at the time. I wish my WH had the same. I have quite surprised myself though (albeit I've had a little help with the xanax) that I havent' screamed to him what a slut she is, da, da, da....I haven't let that anger out and don't see the point of it, except in ventilating to a friend who has been in a similar situation. <BR> I am afraid though, that in the future, every time we have an argument, that he'll threaten to leave. Is that what happens? Will I always feel so unsecure? I never had this insecurity before this revelation and it scares the hell out of me.<BR>Mikkey<P>GUESS WHAT? I could have said the same things about him...He didn't listen to me...He didn't respect my opinions...He passively/aggressively 'had control'...I escaped to my room to read romances at night...I was tired of handling all the children stuff on my own...I wondered why I had married...I didn't feel admired as a wife...as a mother...I felt used...taken for granted...dead inside...<P>My H escaped into an A...I escaped into myself and books...IMPASSE...<P>I think there is a point in here somewhere...that each of us has a certain amount of weakness...that no one person bears the responsibility for the condition of the marriage or relationship...<P>Unfortunately you can't take this stuff we learn and distill it into a liquid and put it into an IV into the veins of those that need it...<P>Everyone has to come to their growth process in their own way and in their own time...there's the rub...<P><BR>Peace,<BR>Cali<P><BR>[/B][/QUOTE]<P>

ladylou you asked why the ws just doesnt leave in another post, this is an old post of mine where i tackled that question. please read it all there was value in it for me, i hope there is for you as well.

Thank you Chaz

This thread has been very helpful to me on a personal level.

Your self-examination is really an awesome read.

Pepper

Chaz ... my H said this to me awhile back:

"Happy people don't have affairs."

Do you agree?

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Chaz ... my H said this to me awhile back:

"Happy people don't have affairs."

Do you agree?

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">not exactly,

more like Happy unhealthy people dont have affairs.

an emotionally mature and healthy person can be unhappy and still make good decisions, its the lack of emotional maturity and health that makes that statement true.

but in that sence it is true. the mission has to be more than to have your needs met so that your happy. while its true that would make me happy and when happy its not likely that I would be suseptible to allowing others to meet those needs, I think it was my lack of internal ability to create happiness that made me utterly dependant on other for it.

its the difference between being unhappy with my marriage, and being unhappy with my life. if I am unhappy with my marriage, i can deal with my wife on an adult level, negotiate and make decisions about what will happen, that may include leaving if its that bad. If I am unhappy with my life, then I see the world and especailly my wife as defeating and possibly as the cause of my sorrow.

so there is truth in what he said, but it is an unhealthy view that makes it true.

and it is exactly why people can ask WHY didnt you just leave, or why didnt you say etc.... because they dont understand the inability. its like asking a child why didnt you just tie your shoes before they fell... its simple... they dont know how...

Wow... this thread brought back some memories...

...but it got me to thinking about the other side of the coin...

"Why did it take the affair for the BS to change?"

My H asked me this... and I would have to say that my answer would be similar to the one you have written...

I was too unhappy... too weak... etc.

Hope you had a nice holiday...

Cali

lady lou i bumpped this up for you earlier when i saw your question about why not leave or get divorced. found it on page 2 so up it goes, please read from the front this was very helpful for me thought you might find some compassion here

bumped up during the holiday missed comments from many.

<<<"Happy people don't have affairs."
Do you agree?>>>

No.
Egocentric people who think they'll never get caught have affairs.

I just needed to read this again times are tough feeling very very alone and tired just needed to remind myself of some hard learned lessons

hope all is well on the boards ive not lurked or posted in a long time, maybe I need too...

Hi CB,

Long time no see!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please let us know how you are doing.

L.