During the almost three years that I have been here, my overwhelming impression has been that there are almost no cases of successful rebuilding of long term marriages in cases where the WS left to go live with the OP. Perhaps I have forgotten some, but the only case I can think of is Lori's (Lostva). In many cases, the WS marries the OP, in others the affair ends. In some cases they return and then leave again, either for the first OP or another one. <p>For those who have been in long term marriages and whose spouse moved in with the OP, did anyone's spouse return? Did they marry the OP?<p>I am not asking whether they are happy or not - it is obvious that often they aren't, but are stuck either financially or because they feel they have burned too many bridges.

Hi - My M is a long term one (almost 31 yrs) His A is also a long term one - (10 yrs) Found out over 3 years ago - moved out and back a few times but now is living with her and my divorce is almost here - why I still hope is that everything everyone has said in this forum is true to the "T" for me too,. I would love to know the answer to your question as well - I have totally given up but a part of me (maybe the unconcious part) still doesn't believe he won't come back - I know how you feel and we do have to completely let go - but do these kinds of A's ever come out of the fog. My H seems happy with her and has all kinds of plans. Sorry you are going through this too - Carebear

Nellie,<p>Wondering if my recent news has spawned your inquiry/poll.<p>My H did not move in with OW, altho they shuttled back and forth from her house to his, towing the kids (3) along. They did this for 22 months after our separation. And now it seems they are to marry in approx 6 mos. <p>I was wondering about the boards stats as well. Hope we get lots of responses.<p>Jo<p>p.s. I'd like to also say that out of the 4 people I have been friends with on this board from day one as a member (20 mos), 3 are divorced, with the WS still with OP (1 couple engaged), and one is still struggling in pseudo recovery. Doing the math based on the stats, things are NOT adding up.<p> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

The only marriage I know where WS actually moved n with OP did not reconcile (OP didn't last either). I read once that the chance of reconiliation drops sharply once it gets as far as move-out. I suspect that is true, tho some do make it.

We'd only been married for 2 years (ouch) when my H had his affair so my situatiuon doesn't count. But something a friend told me sticks in my mind.. My friend (male) is in the automotive business and his job is such that he often ends up having drinks/dinner with male clients. A lot of these guys are in their late 40s and 50s and on their second, third, fourth marriages. Evidently after afew drinks some of them get pretty chatty. My friend said he wishes he had a dollar for every one of them who admitted that he divorced his first wife and then said "It was the biggest mistake I ever made, she's the one I should have stayed with." Now being a guy, he doesn't ask in depth questions like "Why did you divorce her?" so we don't know how many cases involved infidelity, but I'm sure there have been afew. Just something to think about...

Hi Nellie,

My H moved out and lived with OW,not long but he did. He's back and we're reconciled.<p>My neighbor's H moved in with his OW for 6mos....he came back and they are happy , it's been about 10 years or so.<p>My other neighbor's H moved out , moved in with OW 800 miles away, he's back with family and they are working it out. <p>I'm sure I'll think of others.....LU

I don't know, I was a WS and my ex was also. I've been married and with the OM now for over 5 yrs. now. My first marriage was 11 years, my husband's first marriage was 4 or 5 years. My ex is getting married to his OW some time this summer. The thing is when I and my current husband decided we wanted out of our first marriage and we left we didn't go back. I think if your going back and forth your more likely to not end up with the OP. It's hard for me to remember everything now because it has been a really long time.

Well, this is a downer post for the long term marriages.<p> The numbers don't look too good for us. But as you know every situation is different. Wouldn't you like to be one of the ones in the lower percentage, whose marriage makes it? I would.<p> jd

Hi again,<p> I was thinking back on previous posters....Lori or Lostva's H moved out and in with OW, they are back together, K who's W left him is back .<p>
Gotta run, I'll think of more.......LU

well I debated with myself over responding to this post, but I do have some observations (big surprise huh), and since I am in the midst of a long term marital breakdown (as opposed to post breakdown) may (if I am feeling brave enough) give some current thoughts.<p>IMO the most glaring difference between breakups of long term marriages (and the likelihood of recovery) and short to mid term....is children. I would bet the statistics for marriages without children would also more closely parallel the statistics for longterm outcomes.<p>If we remove from the mix, seriously dysfunctional marriages (major abuse, raging alcoholism, mental disease etc.)...and only focus on basically normal people, it seems safe to kinda assume they both love their kids, and are reasonably involved parents...even if you have issues with your spouse, the desire to be part of your childrens life is a powerful motivator to "settle" for the marriage you have, and bury your issues/resentments very very deep...<p>Of course denial never really works, and as the kids get older (and more into their own lives, and mobile...up to actually moving out of home)...the focus of the marriage is forced to shift from the kids to each other, and often the marriage comes up short, then factor in this emotional vulnerability and op, and the results are inevitable, as folks make emotional connections (which is what people do) with others...and why not? Why argue with a spouse when after all these years you "know" it isn't going to change anyways...blah blah blah.<p>If the op is actually a bonafide freind/prospect/ect (if you were single)...now what? The primary reason not to divorce is gone (the kids), you have history and if it wasn't that great, not much pull there, all that is left is 'committment" issues, and if the spouse is reacting poorly to all this.... well, it may not be fair, but humans are funny that way, we all avoid weak, wimmpy, clingy people..they feel unsafe.....So they end up going with the op, and if that seems to work, more and more pressure builds to "seek" this one shot at happiness..blah blah blah.... The only real hope for the bs (assuming the marriage is actually savable) is the op doesn't work out, and they get another crack at doing it right...plan a, counselling, etc.<p>Factor in another more insidious consideration, especially for male ws...if your H is actually sociopathic personality, and only parked themself with you so you could take care of them, and give em kids....then your job is done, and they dump you and move on.... (of course this is a blessing if you can realize it, just make em pay, and go find someone who appreciates you)....I think this is most often the case (or at least a factor) when men leave for women more than 10 years their junior.<p>IMO (although not all agree by any means) I also think people can be responsible and raise kids, then evaluate the marriage and realize it just is not going to "fit" for the rest of their lives, cause was duty based, and although caring is there, the rest just doesn't work...different temperaments, life expectations, whatever you want to call it....hopefully after working through the anger, and emotions, they can part amicably, with appropriate needs met, and be supportive friends... it is not uncommon to see people acknowledge they get along better, and have a better relationship as ex's then they ever did married, why I dunno, but I think it has to do with the need to fit in certain ways to maintain the intimate marital bond.<p>Another factor is societal....the research I have read has made it clear infidelity and marital disharmony has remained pretty much consistent over historical time, but practical circumstances made divorce difficult (at least for women, who it could literally be a life or death matter for)...nowadays a woman can leave a long term marriage and expect to get employment, and/or societal support as needed, as well as legal access (with more teeth everyday) to the marital resources, and future earnings even...likewise I think this has a curious side effect on men (actually the whole feminism movement does) there has been a reduction in gender dynamics, women are no longer chattle, in need of male protection/supervision...so a man can psychologically leave a marriage outright more easily (and with less social onus) rather than maintain a mistress.<p>Anyways, thems my 2 cents<p>lets add one more factor, mortality rates, people are living longer, if you were basically wore out, and expecting to croak by 50-55 or so, not much incentive to go through the life disruption of a divorce, if the marriage was working at all....nowadays people can expect to lead active, vibrant lives into the 80's, is a whole nother lifetime.<p>[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]<p>[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

carebear,<p>I don't know - everyone I have met in real life claims they know hardly anyone who has reconciled in these cases. I know only a few people who have been divorced, and most of those I don't know well enough to know how their first marriage ended. <p>Resilient,<p>I have been thinking about asking this for awhile, but, yes, your post did remind me. I was trying to think of something encouraging to post in your thread, but unfortunately I could not. Sometimes I think that the whole bit about recovery rates is vastly overstated, though I think it is true from what I have seen here that the success rate for relationships that begin as affairs is pretty low.<p>kam,<p>I have read that too - but I have never been able to understand the "once it gets as far as" part, because in so many cases that is the first notice that the BS has that the WS is even thinking of leaving. "Once it gets as far as" would imply that this was a reasoned decision that came after lengthy discussion. In my case, it was less than 24 hours between the time my H announced he wanted a divorce and when he left - and the announcement came about 12 hours after we had offered on house that we were interested in buying.<p>fairydust,<p>I agree that many WS's regret their decisions, but that is of little help to the family they left behind. My H once said, in a slightly different context, "you know that I hate to sleep alone," and that pretty much sums it up.<p>Lu,<p>It's encouraging to read that. Most of my neighbors are in long-term (like going on 40 year) marriages - I know only a handful of people who have ever been divorced or separated, much less reconciled. I probably know more people with kids who have never been married than I do people with kids who are divorced. <p>BonnieSept,<p>Interestingly, I can't remember too many other cases on these boards where the woman ended up marrying the OP and having it last any length of time. <p>jdmac,<p>Yes, of course I would, but sometimes I think that false hope was worse than none at all, and decisions made on that basis rather than on the basis of getting the best financial settlement for the kids destroyed any hope of a decent life for the kids and me. I think in many ways it would be better to file or counter-file immediately on the grounds of adultery and fight as hard as you can - that the only thing you can hope to get out of it is enough money to support your kids and to protect them from exposure to the OP as long as possible, and any factors that interfere with those goals should be ignored. <p>Lu,<p>Do you remember if K's wife actually moved in with the OP? Sometimes I wonder if a large contributing factor to Lori's success was that the OP in that case was a complete fruitcake (or some other pastry [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ), as opposed to just a selfish, desparate woman.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I have read that too - but I have never been able to understand the "once it gets as far as" part, because in so many cases that is the first notice that the BS has that the WS is even thinking of leaving. <hr></blockquote><p>I think they mean "as far as that" in the WS mind...that they (in many cases) have already worked thru any ambivalence, and made up their mind on their own. Obviously, it would be MUCH better if communication was good enough that they discuss the problems/issues and decision-process with their partner before they get to that point, but I think often the WS is too conflict-avoiding to do so. <p>It does seem that once they move in with OP it is a "shut door" for many (not all) and so many are not willing to give marriage a chance, even if/when the affair loses its bloom. At least that's what happened with my FIL...he simply started a new affair on the OW...<p>Yuck.<p>Kathi<p>[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</p>

Hi all, I will let Sis(Lori) know you are talking about her and maybe she will have some time to respond, but in case she doesn't....<p>PT was cold, shrewd and calculating well beyond her years.(Excluding the dinner incident where she got her nickname) She knew exactly which buttons to push on Robert.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Sometimes I wonder if a large contributing factor to Lori's success was that the OP in that case was a complete fruitcake (or some other pastry ... as opposed to just a selfish, desparate woman<hr></blockquote><p>You wonder wrong and this statement does injustice to Lori's strength and hardwork and Robert's character and true feelings for his wife...

Hi all, I will let Sis(Lori) know you are talking about her and maybe she will have some time to respond, but in case she doesn't....<p>PT was cold, shrewd and calculating well beyond her years.(Excluding the dinner incident where she got her nickname) She knew exactly which buttons to push on Robert.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Sometimes I wonder if a large contributing factor to Lori's success was that the OP in that case was a complete fruitcake (or some other pastry ... as opposed to just a selfish, desparate woman<hr></blockquote><p>You wonder wrong and this statement does injustice to Lori's strength and hardwork and Robert's character and true feelings for his wife...

Hi Nellie,<p> I think the pastry was a poptart, right?!!!<p>Anyway, wonder if you would have more response on the Recovery board ?. I know alot of people have reconciled but I'm not sure if they were separated previously.<p>One other story and I am really NOT making this up!.....a family friend's father left the family for an OW , divorced W, married OW , 6yrs.later divorced the OW and remarried W. Everyone was mad that she(W) took him back but they spent many more years together,happily, until he died.The W then married an old family friend! LU

That's right, LuLu. It was Poptarts. <p>PT earned her nick-name because one evening somehow Lori had disovered that PT (Poptart) was wanting to make Robert Poptarts and Bacon for dinner. LOL ..... yuuuuuum YUM!<p>An OW culinary specialty ..... LMAO

Heartpain,<p>I know that Lori worked very hard, and I am not casting aspersions on her efforts - I was trying to make the point that the OW in that case was not a "normal" OW, if there is such a thing, but one who seemed to be far more out of control, as well as violent, than many.<p>Lu,<p>I believe you that you are not making up these success stories - I just wish I had ever heard any in real life. My sister claims she knows of one reconciliation among the scores of people she knows who are divorced. I have never in my life met anyone whom I know for a fact had an affair, except for my H and my former brother-in-law.<p>Kam,<p>It has occurred to me that if I were the OW, I would be very worried about the fact that he has been unemployed for so long and is apparently home all day, with nothing to do but play on the computer - especially since that is how she met him.

My husband was involved in his affair while we were at two separate duty stations--he was viirtually free of any observations on my part. He came and went as a bachelor. He and his girlfriend stayed together at his temporary apartment together. She left her husband and moved out into her "own" place, meaning to staywith my husband on weekends. Ultimately, they were to move in together when the smoke cleared (after the divorces were final, not like that should really matter considering their conduct.)<p> He was building up a household, bought all new appliances and furniture, stereo, tv, even a piano for her.<p> At that point, he chickened out of the arrangement and asked me to reconcile on practically a whim (and I had not a freakin clue all this was even going on the whole time--imagine that!)<p>So all of his stuff--their love nest stuff--has been sitting in storage for the last three years and will probably sit there for another three, if not longer. How sad for them.<p>Anyways, I don't know, I haven't heard about any reconcilations after the WS moves out and then in with OP. I think that's very rare, actually.<p>I have a friend who's parents were just remarried after about 20 years apart--they were married to other people in the meantime, but I don't think that their divorce was the result of infidelity.<p>You know what sucks even worse? I have heard of WS-OP marriage that have been lasting, loving relationships--no such thing as karma, huh?<p>My across the street neighbors when I was a kid--she raised her kids, both my friends, to their teenage years then went back to work, got her real estate license. She then met the ugliest and richest little man in town--a fellow real estate guy. She dumped her husband of twenty years for him and they became engaged. The kids were devestated--and they weren't little kids that were easy to lie to. They were nearly grown but not out of the house. They both refused to speak to her--but that didn't stop her.<p>As for the husband, I have never seen a man so heartbroken in my entire life--he loved her so much. He was a rustic old cowboy, pretty nice looking, and the strong silent type. A lot of girls would give their right arm to hook up with a guy like him. He was so sad. He moved out to a little cabin on the river and lives there to this day--alone. Still devestated, still pining for her.<p>And she--well, she and her real estate agent have built a huge and successful enterprise in what used to be our little town. They are insanely wealthy and still happily together.<p>The kids--they grew tired of their father's moping and moved in with the real estate moguls before they both went out on their own and married. They feel sorry for their father but don't really associate with him anymore--he's a hermit, and their stepfather is more fun. He takes them skiing, hunting, boating. <p>So, anyways, where is justice? I hope it's somewhere, and not just and idea.

My husband and I will be celebrating our 25th Anniversary in April and renewing our vows and he moved in with the other woman 6 times.<p>Although I would not recomend that anyone else does what I did, we are very happy again. My husband and kids father is back and I'm happy to say things are way better than they were before the affair.<p>It was a crazy time, but lessons were learned and I have no regrets.<p>Lilly

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nellie1:
<strong> the only case I can think of is Lori's (Lostva). In many cases, the WS marries the OP</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi, Nellie,
I just wanted to add another name in the (apparently) short list of folks who succeeded in fixing their M's after WS moved in with OP.<p>Another is Frank, AKA "PLEASEHELP" screen name on the boards. His W left him, lived w/OM, and was gone for (I think ) over 16 months, and even married OM for a brief time. Then D him and returned and she and Frank have been in recovery since then. <p>As far as "real life" cases, I know my neice's IL's were "separated" for awhile, becasue of an A on his part. Since it's obviously a painful part of their history, NO ONE in their family talks about it much. My neice simply told me what she knew (that's it above!) to "comfort" me about her uncle (my WH).<p>Hope this helps! Keep your chin up. I am mine!!! I am trusting GOD to do the impossible. Statistics, other cases, etc. have NO place in His society! He DELIGHTS in doing the IMPOSSIBLE!! That's where my hope is grounded.<p>God Bless,