W read SAA last night - at least the part up to the recovery section. We are almost exactly like Jon and Sue - so much so that it is scary. She recognized that, which I think is good. I think she was under the impression that her R with OM was unique - no one felt as intensely as she does, etc. She said she really felt that Dr. Harley was the first person she's come across that seems to understand what is going on with us. She's open to telephone counseling with him, so I think I'll set that up for next week. Anyone have an opinion on telephone counseling? Is it helpful? Should we do it together or separately?

K said:<p>the wayward spouse needs to end the affair because they don't see a future in it. Any external influence you exhibit in an attempt to end the affair(education, threats, etc.) is likely to be useless (at best) or a major lovebuster (at worse). Counseling can be a way to educate a wayward spouse---but if they haven't ended the affair upon discovery, that's usually unsuccessful.<p>Does this mean that, in general terms, if the WS does not end the A immediately upon discovery, you're destined to a Plan B? I mean if counseling is "usually unsuccessful", presumably during Plan A, then what other options are there?

Baffled:<p>WOW! That your W is reading and identifying with SAA is a monstrously GOOD sign! I would take as quick an advantage of her desire to talk to the Harleys as possible. Do it on her terms. If she wants to talk to them herself, let her. If she wants to talke to them with you, jump right in!<p>Good luck to you, guy. Things are happening!

Spacecase:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Does this mean that, in general terms, if the WS does not end the A immediately upon discovery, you're destined to a Plan B? I mean if counseling is "usually unsuccessful", presumably during Plan A, then what other options are there?<hr></blockquote><p>Plan A does several things for a betrayed spouse. First off, it allows them to assess the state of the marriage, and to acknowledge and correct issues from the ws's point of view. This is an "unusual" response. Second, Plan A can be used as a negotiation tool for the WS to end the affair. You can (and should) be completely honest to the WS in terms of letting them know that you don't approve of the affair, and you can let them know that you're willing to do "what it takes" to have them end it. Third---most affairs will end within a couple years of being "outed". Plan A is to bide your time and leave your ws with a good impression of what you were like, because when you get to Plan B, she's going to have that recent "Plan A" history in the back of her mind. When the affair ends, a ws will be more likely to return to the marriage if they know that there's less chance for retribution.<p>Plan A can be successful on it's own. But it's often the set-up for Plan B. The best results are doing this under the guidance of a professional like Steve or Jenn.

Set up telephone counseling for April 30. Question - I haven't been as overt as I should about the fact that I think no contact is an absolute necessity. Should I wait and let Dr. Harley do that? Or should I let her know that right away? I was thinking it might be perceived as less of an LB (demand) from him. Or I guess I could just ask what she thought of the part of SAA - it's pretty unambiguous about contact.

Baffled:<p>I wouldn't ask her a pointed question about anything that might cause her to feel LB'd by you. Let HER ask YOU. But you might want to ask something like: "what do you think of what you've been reading? Is there anything that you think we should talk about that might relate to our situation now?"<p> [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Baffled:<p>I guess there is another thing to consider here, that I don't always make clear about my own situation. Your W may be coming farther back to your M than you think, as I sometimes think there are signs of in my own sitch. What I mean is that I have a tendency (and most people probably do, too) to overinterpret or overreact to what I think is going on, especially when I'm not given enough information to work with. My imagination runs rampant. So, asking SOMETHING about what she's feeling about what she's reading is certainly better than doing nothing, but since you don't know much yet about what she is thinking, asking without LBing is definitely the first order of business.<p>Take care.