Hello all.

Well I have been in plan A for 6 months now. A little rocky in the beginning but the last 2 months I have done very well with it.

WW still seeing OM. There was a time I thought they were done. She responded to me well during the plan A and I would like to continue it but she filed for divorce many months ago and the final date is coming up Feb 27.

WW still says she does not love me and wants the D. I talked with Jennifer again about 2 weeks ago and she suggested I move to plan B during the holidays because it gives a good sense of reality to the WS. Sadly, I could not leave my 3 children during Christmas. Besides, I needed time to try and get my heart in sync with my mind. This is very difficult to do. I know it is time to change this thing up and time to protect my heart from her lies and betrayals but my heart is so hurt just thinking of plan B.

Well, after Christmas my WW turns up with diamond earings and a gold necklace that she claims she bought herself. She has not taken them off for a week. I know OM bought them for her and I can not stand to see them worn infront of me. Also, her family came to town this last weekend to go to the Chiefs game. I am sure the OM went and met her family. Then they all stay at my home for the New years, I cook them a wonderful supper of steak and crab legs. The whole time, I could tell the whole family was keeping things secret from me at my WW's request.

Which brings me to Plan B. I took the day off yesterday and packed up my personal effects. I plan on getting furniture and other stuff when the D gets closer. My kids were off school still and my 4 and 7 year olds followed me around asking what I was doing. As I boxed up my computer, clothes and effects, I could not tell them anything other than I was cleaning. It got late as my WW came home late, like normal, so I stayed with the kids and spent the night.

So today my plan is to go to my folks house and end my relationship with my WW.

Two issues I have, I have not explained anything to my kids and feel I must, and I have not done my plan B letter.

Is it acceptable to send the plan B letter days after you leave? How can I explain this to my kids? Without breaking down to them? I can't even talk about this talk I must have with them without breaking down and I am at work not face to face with them.

So I am taking it that the divorce is putting you out of the home? Is that correct? And that your wife has custody?

Alrey,

Believer's questions are very pertinent. Have you talked to your lawyer about leaving the house under these conditions? Are you going to concede physical custody of your children to your WW?

If that is not your intention you may be damaging your case for custody.

I understand very well how you feel about the jewelry, the apparent "support" your WW gets from her family, and the pain involved in even considering telling your kids.

There is only so much you can do to save your marriage. This is a good time for Plan B if you make certain you are not jeopardizing your chances for custody of your children.

Once you get away from her, you will start rebuilding your life little by little.

Believer,

To date we have worked out a parenting plan between our lawyers that she will have primary custody, I get the kids on my 2 days off each and every week, we both get two weeks vacation in summer with kids ect.

The home we just bought a year ago and neither of us can afford it alone. My WW has decided she wants to try but deep inside she knows she will have to sell it soon. Since I can not afford it myself, I have conceded it to her with the stipulation that if sold for a profit I get my share. With the market down and the second loan we took to pay off other debts, I don't see her coming out very well in this. Possibly a bankruptcy for her later.

Hiker,

Yes it is difficult to continue my plan A in the current situations. I actually could continue but her apparent acceptance of me in plan A seems most of the time to be a lie. She only does this to appease me and avoid any percieved conflict. She is still in the A, only more hidden now.

I just feel that now is the time to give her a plan B and a couple of months to feel the loss of my support before the D is final. Kind of my last ditch effort get her to see reality with out me.

I am at work but will check this thread off and on today. After work I plan on going to my home and talking to my 3 kids about why Daddy is leaving the home. I will not be there when my WW gets home. I will then put together my B letter and send it to her.

Any thoughts from people are apprieciated. As hard as plan A has been it accually seems easier to continue than go to plan B but I must change course before the D and see if it helps.

Is your WW still in the affair?

Why do you accept her having primary custody of the children?

Just curious?

HopeandPray,

For a time I thought she was not seeing OM anymore, but she reminded me that she was still seeing him after I asked her to go to dinner just the two of us the other nite.

As far as primary custody goes. My lawyer is willing to fight for it if I choose to. It gets expensive and we do not see the judge in my "no fault" state, finding her as an unfit mother. Besides I can not afford the home alone and I do not want to uproot them. So they should stay in the home as long as possible. I also do not feel as though my job would allow me the time needed to handle their rearing properly. I work 5, 11 hour shifts on salary school and daycare do not mesh with this schedule. My WW could handle this easier than I.

Al,

I am a huge proponent of Plan B but I would strongly caution you AGAINST leaving your children and home. You missed an excellent opportunity to bring in a huge dose of reality during the holidays. Do not be mistaken, what follows for you(and this will get incredibly ugly) is a result of your WW's actions.

She and her family will try to put it ALL on you and your actions of Plan B. Are you emotionally ready to have these upcoming insults roll off your back???

My recomendations is to get your lawyer and devise a strategy to keep custody of the children and force your WW to move out.

Best of luck

Why not go for at least joint custody with her having primary residential status. I would think you would want to maintain a say in the important matters of the children's lives as they grow up?

You should also get more than standard visitation written into the court order. Every other weekend, one overnight weekly, right of first refusal if she cannot take care of them on nights they are w/ her, every other spring break, one week at Christmas, 3 weeks in summer (could be every weekend to make up), every other birthday, every father's day, and more... Don't for one minute believe she will play nice down the road. You can't take that chance.

Who makes the most money? Are you going to have to pay child support to her! Just make sure that you have thought long and hard about all of this before punting.

Stay stong.

Hopeandpray,

Yes we did make it joint custody with her as primary residential. I will have them two over nights a week, 2 weeks vacation in summer, every fathers day, every Thanksgiving, 1/2 day every Christmas with the 4 days following it, ever other 4th july, I will definetly have a say in their lives.

My WW makes more money than me and yes we worked out a child support payment. The state formula says I would owe 700 a month for the 2 kids that are biologically mine. My third child is not mine biologically but I met my W when she was pregnent with her and the bio father never tryed to contact us. She is my child and I am her father just not as the state sees it. Anyway my WW only asked for 500 month well below the state formula. My lawyer said if I was not going after full custody then this deal was worth accepting.

Alrey2,

I usually don't offer my opinion but I agree strongly with Cymanca. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME AND YOUR CHILDREN! If your WW wants a D, make her work for it. DO NOT make this easy for her.
Why can't you both stay there until the house is sold? Let her move out if she chooses. Let HER have that conversation with the kids about why SHE is moving. Let her explain to them that SHE has chosen to D and the SHE has chosen to be with OM.
I would have a restraining order in place so that the children spend NO time with OM for as long as possible.
You have every right to stay in you home. Your kids need you, especially NOW! Don't leave.

MyBad
******************************************************************************
You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
******************************************************************************

Sounds as if you have a plan that works for you and that your have thought this out which is very good.

One last question (and you will notice my focus is on the children here), what is the OM like? Is the kind or person that you want your children to be around 70% of the time? What do you know about him?

You sound as if you are doing well Alrey.

Cymanca,

Yes Jennifer suggested the move to plan B during the Holidays. I could not bring myself to leave the kids just weeks before Christmas.

So, are you saying that if I had gone to Plan B then, it would have been ok but now that I missed this opportunity I should not?

I understand the leaving the home and kids stuff but I am stareing at an approching D and feel that she will get the home and kids anyway and I will be forced out. So, why not do plan B now, even though I must leave it all, and hopefully stop this D before it is final?

Alrey,

You need to sit down with a trusted friend that has some business sense and have him/her explain the GREATER COST OF YOUR OUTLINED PLAN both in terms of money and children.

You, my friend , are going to be buried financially. Do you want it to happen under your terms or hers????????You have spent months REACTING instead of PROACTING. Get yourself a lawyer that does NOT mirror that attitude.

Alrey,

What I am saying is that you are going through TWO separate ordeals, the psychological breakdown of your M and a breakdown of a BUSINESS agreement.

Separate your emotions when it comes to the business side. It should be approached as if you got fired from your job without just reason. Would you stand there and try not to upset the guy that just fired you?????????????

HopeandPray,

The OM is only 23 y/o my WW is 36 now. From what I know of him he still is very inmature, lives with his mother and does not make very much money.

I cringe at the thought of him trying to raise my kids.

I must be honest, I am doing much better than 6 months ago when I was utterly crushed and desparate, but I am still confused as to how to proceed and lacking any sense that this is truely going to be permanent.

I know people are going to tell me to fight her regardless of her reactions but I honestly still think I can turn this around if I don't completely alienate her.

Alrey2,

There are only two times you should consider moving out of your home:

A) you fear for your life
B) you were ordered to by the judge

Divorce is WAR!
Knowledge is POWER!

You need all the knowledge you can get in order to fight this war my friend. If your lawyer is not willing to fight the fight then get a new lawyer.

MyBad

Cymanca,

I fear very much for my finacial future, WW tells me I am being materialistic when I explain how hard we worked to get where we are and that starting over is a disaster for us both.

It is extremely difficult to seperate my emotions and only think of finacials. In truth her and I will both have to adjust to a lower life style. She is going to be crushed by the morgage and I by the 500 child support. I will not be liable for the morgage when it goes bad. She is the only one on the loan docs. My credit from years ago was hurting our rating so she got the loan in her name only.

Mybad,

Hi, yes my lawyer will fight for me if I tell him to.

It will get expensive fast. I fear that it will alienate my W even more, giving her more reasons that she should never reconsider us.

I do understand your position and it sounds great if I knew my WW would never be back and I felt as though I could prove her unfit to gain custody but I just do not feel I would win.

You want it to get expensive fast. That will hit her where it hurts and snap her back to reality. If it works it will cost you a ****** of a lot less than divorce.

Why do you fear alienating your wife? Stand up for yourself and your family. What you do have left to be afraid of? The reason that she won't reconsider you if because she's in an active affair. If you subject your WW to the full consequences of her actions, you are much more likely to kill her affair. Kill the affair, and you have a chance at reconciliation.

You don't have to gain full custody, but the thought of her possibly losing custody could snap her back to reality.

It doesn't sound like you are trying to save your marriage, but rather lessen your financial impact from a divorce. What do you want?

jmwc95,

You are correct that I have spent much time looking at the impact of the finacials involved and have attempted to lessen this. I want my marriage and family back. However, this is not my choice anymore, it is all up to her. If she goes through with this D then my time spent lessening the finacial impact will be worth it to me.

Ultimately, I want my marriage back, I want my W back, I want my children to grow up in a traditional, happy home.

I have spent the last 6 months in plan A trying to show my love and devotion, improving me and hoping she would see the light. There are times I can see it getting through and then she goes right back to the WW. She has never faultered on the D though. She made this decision and appears to be intent on making it happen.

I am at a point where I feel I need to change my approach. My Plan A has been noticed and I will be missed for certain things quickly. I just do not know what else than plan B to do to try and bring my marriage back.

So, do you have it in the papers that OM is not to move in your home? I can see that as happening next.

Believer,

Ouch, I would hope he does not. I have thought of this and am considering having it as a condition of the D that he may not move in to the marital home. What happens when she sells or loses it in bankruptcy? She gets a smaller place and I lose my conditions.

If she wants him to move in with her I don't think I can stop it forever. How do you suggest I approch this as it is not desirable to me.

I would talk to your attorney. Make it hard for wife to get divorce. The affair will never last.

But my biggest worry is that OM (or should we say other boy) will move in to your home. At some point he will realize that your wife is TOO OLD. Then he will be looking at your 13 year old step-daughter.

I also do not see this affair lasting, but it has gone on for more than a year now.

How do I make it hard for her to get the D? By fighting custody, marital property or some other way?

Am I wrong in not wanting to alienate her by fighting? I could not keep the home anyway so why fight that? The kids, the courts lean towards the mother and I don't see my schedule allowing me the time to get them to school and picked up every day.

All of this works so much better as a team. As a married couple we can afford the home and take care of the children properly.

My goodness the OM had better never think of my daughter this way. I did point out to WW when I discovered OM's age that he was closer in age to our now 14 year old than to my WW. She only states that I don't know him and she is in love with him.

Your WW is right! You don't know him, nor how she is thinking, so don't take that into account when protecting your financial future and your childrens' safety. Your WW sure as [censored] isn't, and someone MUST.

Would it be possible for you to change shifts; look for another position? Change what YOU can, and fight for more time with your kids. Also, stipulate that OM is not to live with your children in the marital home; yes they may eventually have to move and OM MAY move in, but that is time down the road, consider the sitch now, not later. This A may be over before all of that future that you are thinking about occurs. Control for what YOU can RIGHT NOW! You never know what this guy is capable of, and neither does your WW. TAKE CARE OF THOSE KIDS!

Have you ever confronted OM or exposed to his family. If he lives at home still, I don't think that he would like for his parents to know. I would think that me be a little uncomfortable. I would think that a punk kid like that would cut and run at a first sign of confrontation.

How did your WW meet OM? If it was through work, did you expose there? Do her family and friends know. What do they think. I don't think you have made your WW's affair nearly uncomfortable enough. Does she really want to look like a cheap ****** for divorcing the father of her children for some 23 year old boy toy? Make sure she suffers the consequences of her actions, and she's more likely to change her ways.

jmwc95,

Yes, I talked to his mother one time for a hour. She was not happy with his decision and says she had been telling him she was to old for him but she could not get through to him. I told her I loved my W and wanted to save my family she said she would have me in her prayers.

They did meet at work. My WW was his boss. I went to her boss on it and he promptly moved the OM to another position. Everyone at her work and all her freinds know of her A, but she has tainted their ears with fabrications about me being so bad and how she would want a D even without the OM in the picture. It would seem she has made me look bad enough that everyone she knows helps, understands and enables this A and D.

23 and 36? Your WW is sleeping with a kid. This can't possibly last. I can't believe that if the parents this guy knew they would let him stay with them still.

Silent,

I do want to take care of my kids in this time of turmoil. Unfortunately for me, I still think I can save this thing. My actions are based upon this thought. If I can save the marriage or reconnect with my W, then the children's future will be secured.

This is also why I am willing to go plan B right now. If I let her feel the consequences of me not being around to help her finacially and emotionally then in theory she will start to miss me and what I bring to the table as a Husband and father. Then reality hits and the affair will be in trouble.

Am I reading the goal of Plan B correctly? If plan A works 15% and plan A followed by plan B is 85% successful, then I feel this is where I should be?

I guess all I saying is that if the PLAN B doesn't work then I would not be morally or otherwise constrained to any previous agreements (unless legally enforceable) or promises. If this got to the point that D was inevitable then I would re-evaluate first the interests of my children and secondly my own financial interests. Depending on my evaluation of these interests I would then begin to draft any final and legally binding agreement. If she didn't like the agreement that best protected my children and my best interests then I would see her azz in court, period!

Well, Plan B was set in to play, in my case, to let WH go to feel the impact of not having me in his life, as well as full access to his home and dogs, family life, etc. I also went into Plan B because I could no longer take the abuse from WH. It's emotionally draining to be in Plan A, and I couldn't do it anymore. I also went to Plan B because I thought WH needed to see that I didn't NEED him; I WANTED him, and there's a HUGE difference.

Be careful with your approach here, you don't want to appear WEAK to your WW either. FIGHT. Moving out so easily, looks like conceeding the battle, IMHO. When I asked WH to leave, he did without even a whimper of a fight. I don't respect that much. Even if it was only his house that he wanted to keep, he could have fought; but NADA, ZIP. Be sure to SHOW what you want with ACTION, not words. Don't concede anything, whether it's going to happen eventually or not, don't make this so easy/comfortable for your WW.

Alrey,

You're getting a lot of advice here. Only you know your situation thoroughly enough to make a decision.

If you think there's a chance of saving your marriage, then you are correct about not totally alienating your wife. Once the divorce kicks in, it will be very difficult to avoid the acrimony that will seal the end of your relationship.

From what you have described, I agree that this affair is not likely to last. Her 23 year old boyfriend will likely tire of her and find someone else. The big question is whether she will want to come back to the marriage once the affair dies out.

You are thinking there's a chance for recovery and you don't want to kill it by going into battle with the divorce. But you can't be assured she will want to stay married to you even after the affair ends. The other posters here think you are giving up too much in your "pre-divorce" agreement. They may be right if you can't save your marriage.

You're worn out on Plan A -- it hasn't stopped anything anyway. But my advice (for what it's worth) is to stay in the house at least until you are slapped with her divorce petition (in February?), and possibly as long as the final decree.

It's tough, it sucks, but it's best for the kids for now. The kids should be your number one priority; saving the marriage second.

I have to leave now but I will write more on this later.

Good luck.

Dedicated,

Yep, 23 and 37. He is a kid. Somehow my WW thinks she is in love with him. He lives with his mother, father left years ago in divorce.

They met at work and became friends through conversation, this of course led to the A. At first I asked her what in the world she could be getting from him to make him so attractive. She would say the conversations, that he was more mature than his age, he does not try to control her, and my very favorate, he thinks more of her satisfation in bed and has more stamina than me.

So, I guess it is the sex, but we never had bad sex. In fact she was always pleased the results. She says it has nothing to do with sex. From what I can gather sex is the main reason it is still going. It started as conversation, compasion, common goals and situations.

Truthfully, I don't know what goes on in her mind anymore, guess I never did.

It's not the sex Alrey....It's unfortuantely the conquest. It is about your WW not having any self esteem or being a narcissit one or the other extremes, not sure which one. If its the self esteem issue then she is looking for something to give her ego a rush. Bedding a younger male who works for you would have the same effect as an 55 year old male executive bedding his 21 year old secretary. HUGE ego rush because somewhere deep down he knows he is not worthy of the wife, family and all he has at home. Same with your WW.

Opposite this is the narcissit that just thinks people are to be used for their pleasure, fulfillment, benefit and to make themselves feel good about who they are. They are above the law, know everything, and have little to no empathy for others feelings unless it gets them something.

I dare say your WW is in one of these categories.

Don't forget that she is getting oodles of admiration from this 'kid', too. He probably tells her how strong she is for remaining married 'this long' and yada yada yada. He probably makes her feel attractive, and, YES, listening to her, probably hanging on every word. He's not more mature, she's probably just being selfish and IMMATURE, reaching down to his level of maturity. Remember, try to look for substance in what your WW says to you, and HEAR all else as BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Respect yourself, and her, as much as you can right now. Show strength, even when you feel weak. As Hiker says, only you know your wife, but she is WAYWARD...

Hopeandpray,

None of the agreements made so far would be legally enforcable if I choose not to sign them. If this plan B does not get results rather quickly then yes I will have to re-evaluate how I proceed with the D.

Hiker,

My ww filed the D in August, I recieved her D petition back in August as well. The Feb 27 date is supposed to be the final decree. The court ordered a mediation of the parenting plan back on Dec 15, this is where the agreements came from, it is not signed though and can change.

Silent,

My WW tryed to get a restaining order back in June, got me escorted out of my home by sheriffs. I was gone for 2 weeks but then beat it in court. I came back home Plan A'ing still. In early Aug she filed for D and had me served. I stayed at home and showed her my love. In late Aug. she tryed to get me out of the home by having the court give her temp. possesion of the marital home. I beat her in court and stayed at home. She constantly told me she wanted me out, she felt uncomfortable. I continued on my plan A course. At times I thought she was coming around but then she would return to a heavy fog.

Through all of this I showed my love for her. I told her of my desire to fix this M for us and the kids. She says she is not interested in saving the M. I feel as though I have fought to save this M. I have shown her my desires. I have not moved out easily. It will appear to her that I have conceded defeat at first, she may even party that I finally left, but I see the reality hitting her soon. I hope.

My WW is hurting right now for money. She can not afford the house alone and I quit paying bills 2 months ago, other than my stuff and food and daycare for the kids. In fact, as I was packing my stuff I found our coin bottle empty. It had maybe 1500 in change from years of putting it in. She must have cashed it in at her bank. She is getting desparate for money. I do not know how this will effect our situation but I hope it does something positive soon.

Well, now that I see more of your story, you have done a good job at sticking to your guns! It does sound like Plan B would be good for you now. I just want to caution you that Plan B is part of the process to recover your M, with a good Plan B letter, and utter darkness (which can be tough to achieve when you have to exchange children, etc.) but don't necessarily expect it to stop the D. Hang in there, Alrey...

Hopeandpray,

The first description is the accurate one. My WW has always had low self esteem and in the first few years of our M I did little to help this problem. In fact I made it much worse. She tells me that she was looking to other men for attention, but I think she needs the esteem boost.

Silent,

Yep, she is being selfish, she even told my back in June that she had been unhappy in marriage for many years and pretended to be for the kids and I. She then said it was time for her to be happy and she could not pretend anymore.

Also, yes, she has gone down to his level of maturity. The bar hopping, they quoting silly movie lines, the thinking of the current and not the future. She says she only needs his love not material possesions we could have together.

OMG!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> This is EXACTLY what my WH said to me with his PA. It's revisionist history!

I was not ALWAYS fully happy every day of my M, but I was happy. I didn't have some expectation that Marriage, itself, was going to sustain me. I knew life was not easy, and that some of my problems were JUST MINE to deal with, with the SUPPORT of my spouse. I never thought of myself as half of a whole. I thought of myself as a single entity working toward a good M of two entities. I never had huge esteem issues, however. It's amazing how similar the wayward speak can be...

This does not sound like someone that you should want raising your kids. You need to fight for full custody and do everything your lawyer tells you to attain that goal. Figure out a way to arrange daycare for your children, and document the harmful things your WW exposes them to including OM.

IMHO, I feel that you are enabling her A. WHat are you doing for yourself? How are you taking care of you?

I wouldn't let your WW just have her way like she is now...please DO something anything...fight to SAVE your M...you still have time...

YOU still have the opportunity to be her one and only...regardless of the history between the two of you!

Again, my O, but it kinda sounds like a doormat situation...She did this to YOU and YOUR family...she's tearing your family apart and it sounds like you are just taking it.

I'm not bashing you...supporting you all the way...please don't take me wrong...but this is your kids...your life...your blood...Do you feel that you have done EVERYTHING you can at this point?

Sure...she'll be mad...WS's alwaya are...

((((((((A))))))))

A much quoted line around here

"let her choke on Plan B"

Best of luck to you

Silent,

I tryed explaining to her that happiness comes from within. I asked her, if she could have a thriving, loving marriage with secured futures for us and the kids, would this be something to give her happiness? Or will her happiness be found in being a single mother of 3 searching for love in men that fool her and use her for their needs?

She only replied that she could not be happy with me.

Couldn't aagree more with this statement. The kids are the most important thing now. Be there and protect them and show them how much you love them through this. Don't cave into her decision.

This A will not stand the test of time. At 23 and her 36 he has to start thinking about the other young women out there he will be missing out on sooner or later.

Wayward babble all the way. She's just trying to justify her awful actions, Alrey. Don't buy it!

Listen to those here, advising you to get control of the situation on your end. Fight for your kids, do whatever it takes, even if that means changing jobs for their sake. You can't REASON with your WW. She can't see straight right now; she's HIGH!!! It all FEELS TOO GOOD...

I think the time for reasoning and talk is over. You really should contact your lawyer and ask for what you want; find a way to make what you want happen...

Rinder,

I don't want to enable the A. How am I doing this?

As far as me, I stopped all LB's that I used to do, I changed my hair and facial hair, I straightend and whitened teeth, I went to a skin doc and had blemishes removed from my face, I worked out but then stopped.

I wish I could find a way to be her one and only. I have done a pretty good Plan A and she has taken notice of a few things. She does not think my changes would last. I have shown her my love and compassion. I do not know what else I can do to save this M.

Maybe2late,

I see you are in recovery. Did you have to go into plan B? Was D ever filed by either of you? I would love to hear how plan B can help, if indeed it helped you.

Just an idea so don't kill me if you don't like it.

The OM is 23 - a kid more less and has no idea what it is like being a father.

What if A2 sent him a letter letting him know that with D coming soon that the OM will need to do some daddy things. Make a list of what the kids need, do, when they do them how they will need help from the OM.

Make is sound like when the D is done then he (OM) will need to pick up the slack of fatherhood when the kids are with mom.

Scare him some. I know when I was 23 I didn't think of kids at all, just beer, job and women.

My 2 cents

Hmmm...I got to thinking and maybe the key to breaking up this A is through the OM, not your WW. Did you ever confront him face to face? Maybe he would cut and run. Also, if he is the type of 23 year old guy to sleep with a married woman who is 13 years older than him, I'd be willing to bet that he'd EASILY cheat on your WW. Is he an attractive fellow? Maybe you should do some surveillance on him to see what he is doing on the days that he isn't with your WW. Get some proof that he is cheating on her. This may be going too far, but hire someone to seduce him, get the two of them on tape going into a hotel room together, shut off the camera, and have the woman walk out of the room. That may be going too far (but isn't illegal), but hey, I'm just brainstorming here. You want help, at least I'm trying here!

Jim, you and I think wayyyy to much alike. People should never peeve either of us off!

Yeah, OM was left scratching his head when his parents, sister, and best friend all had proof of his "relationship" with my WW even though they live in three different states 1000 miles from me. I already knew where he lived in Boston and had a standing offer for a friend of a friend of a friend to kick his [censored] in exchange for a couple of cases of beer (with no traceability back to me). If I had any Italian blood in me whatsoever I would have done it. I also sent out a mass email to about 50 different people exposing the affair, and my WW flipped out. I am not one to be crossed.

Oh! the scheming and intrigue is starting. I like it.

Way better than just waiting for the A to end.

Thank you. I try not to disappoint.

Now you guys are getting creative. I like the brainstorming. Funny but I bet he will cheat on her in time. I just wish he would do it and get caught. I do not think meeting him face to face would be good, I would love to but I would land in jail.

I did actually call him once and have some words. I told him I was still sleeping with her, wow did this get him worried, he is quite the jeleous type. I also called him a few words and stuff. One was that he was a wussy with a P. He replied "I am what I eat". Nice come back, indeed it had me mad for days.

I am about to get off work and head for the house to tell my kids it is not my desire to leave but mom does not want to be married to me anymore.

Is there any truth to the statement that plan A is still somewhat smoothering to the WS and they are trying so hard to get out that they do not have the proper alone time to sort things out. Possibly plan B allows this down time for the WS to think and maybe decide to change?

Have you talked with your lawyer about how moving out might be used against you in the D. It might be seen as abandonment and could jepardize your chances for custody.

Just feel you might want to give some more thought to this.

Hi, A2...

you mentioned that she comes home late...it sounded like she was spending that time with OM...make this inconvient for her...

As far as the earring and necklace...state that you KNOW that they are from OM and you would appreciate that she did not show evidence of her A around you and the kids...

What about the family get together...What I'm saying is bring reality in her direction...don't let her think that she's getting away with this...

Right now, even with the D, she is having her cake and eating it to...I would make her move out...fight and make it hard for her...

Are you checking cell records...I would also do more exposing like the rest have mentioned....

Have you stated to her that she is breaking up the family? I also would talk with the kids and let them know what's going on...get her out of the house, and plan B from there...

You can bet that the thought of OM moving in after the D has crossed her mind...MOF, I would get the house, regardless if I could afford it or not, and then sell it after the D...just to ensure that he didn't move in...

Regardless of OM income, that will be helping your WW out, if he does...with Food Stamps, and child suppport, she may be able to pull it off...

I love the self care...WOW, BABY!

I am not one to be crossed.


Me either Jim. People would describe me as easygoing, loving, kind, giving, caring, compassionate, etc BUT if someone hurt's someone I love or is hurting someome (family) I love I can be the meanest SOB you have ever met and not in a stomping, raging, yelling kind of way but in an assassin, ninja, covert ops kind of way....

If I were to concoct a plan for someone to seduce OM, here is how I would do it (I'm not recommending you do it, I'm just speaking in hypotheticals).

Find a young, attractive escort, stripper, or someone of lesser moral standing and get her to lure OM into a hotel room nearby a bar he "frequents" where she supposedly is staying. Once inside, have a man call her pretending to be a BH that has caught his WW cheating on him and have her exit quickly. Film the entire encounter like a PI. Sit on the evidence for a few weeks to allow him to not tell her. Make up some story that some friend's sister's cousin used a PI to catch his WW cheating on him, and the tape found its way back to you. You are just providing it to her because you thought she should know. I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying that's how it could be done.

A 2ple of things...

If you're moving out, tell your kids about the A when you do. I know the youngest are young, but there are ways that others in your si2ation have done this.

Full blown exposure. It's the right thing 2 do.

Stop worrying about "alienating" your WW. Her A has done all of that. Nothing you're doing is responsible.

Plan B is not supposed 2 be a 2l by which the BS manipulates the WS in2 wanting the M. It can accomplish that, but the BS needs 2 be prepared for the other, perhaps equally likely outcome - you end up divorced.

Since she's filed and there's a date it's finalized, you're headed there anyway. So, I'd focus on getting yourself on a more even keel with plan B, NOT on winning your W back at this point.


Protect your kids! Earlier you said that your step daughter wasn't "yours" in the state's eyes. I find that hard 2 believe, if you've been raising her her whole life.

So, based on what you said - that you met your W when she was pregnant - I have 2 ask: Did your relationship start as an affair?

-ol' 2long

2long,

Hi, nice post. How do I get on a more even keel with Plan B? Just that I need to be prepared to face Divorce? or fighting her every step? So, if a D goes through and I fought when or how does a person try to regain the relationship?

Yes, I raised the oldest her whole life. The state does not require I pay support on her, but I do not know all of my rights with her. I know my WW wants me to still be there for her just as the others, visitations too. I don't think either of us would want it any other way.

As to my WW being pregnant when I met her. No, it was not an affair relationship. She was not married and the father did not want to marry her. I met her at 3 months pregnant. We did not actually date until the baby was 3 months old. At that point the father had cancelled a wedding and she was looking for someone new. Do I think now that she was still seeing him on ocasion when we first started dating? Yes, she would take the child to his mothers and say to see grandma for the first year. Knowing what I now know of her, I would say she was seeing us both for a time even though I was told she was not.

That's part of plan B, but that's not the "best" part. The part that's most beneficial for you - getting yourself on an even emotional keel - is separating yourself from her drama. You no longer meet any of her needs - you force the OM 2 do that, which he will not enjoy doing for long. You focus on doing things for yourself (and your kids). Find out who you are without the attachment 2 your WW - which, after all, is about 2 legally end if she doesn't choose 2 stop the DV anyway. My guess is that the DV will go forward, and if you do reconcile it'll likely be months or even years after. People have done it many times on here.


NO! You remove yourself from the fight. You refuse 2 fight FOR HER, but you keep fighting for your right 2 raise your kids.


First and foremost, you learn how 2 be whole by yourself. You learn the difference between loneliness and soli2de and realize you can enjoy being alone. After all, it's better than trying 2 entice someone who's having an A 2 want 2 end the A when they get the needs they want met from both of you (and the OM is only all 2 happy 2 get his fix by letting you meet the needs he can't or won't).

you learn 2 detach with love. You learn that a healthy marriage is a commitment between 2 healthy individuals - not between 2 needy individuals who can't be complete without a partner.


Good, because you don't want your oldest daughter thinking she isn't as "completely" your daughter as the other 2.


This tells me something of her character. I would submit 2 you that, even though she wasn't married 2 this man, she was having an affair with you when you first started dating. You may have been an unwitting OM in the process.

You may have more of a struggle 2 recover with someone with this kind of background. Not that you can't recover, but it suggests she had some emotional baggage she brought in2 the relationship with you that she's never fully dealt with - and it's coming back 2 haunt her (and you) now.

best,
-ol' 2long

Good morning all,

Well, I went to the house last night and told the kids I was leaving because mommy did not want to be married to me anymore. My oldest already knows WW is seeing someone else. My 4 y/o boy asked me why I was crying as he saw some tears on my face, I told him it was because I did not want to leave. Early on in this, I was gone for 2 weeks and came to take the kids to dinner several times, my 4 y/o must be remembering this as he asked if I would go to a resturant with him when I returned.

My 14 y/o was sad but she is so strong. When I went to give final hugs, I was crying, she pats me on the back and says, "it's Ok Dad, just calm down". I had to go to the porch and sob.

I have been thinking about all the posts yesterday. You people are right on many levels. I still have not done my B letter and could return home and god knows I want to, but I do not want to meet her needs anymore. At least not until she will reciprocate them back to me.

As I left the house last night, I drove the 45 minutes to my mothers, I was going over and over in my head what I should do. Was I making the right desicion to leave and go to plan B or should I return home and plan A. How do you decide which action will get the desired results?

I have never been super religious. I did grow up with a mother that is. I remember reading here that sometimes you must give it all over to god. I started thinking, which way do I go, back home to my disrupted family or to my mothers. Something inside me told me that the place the devil would want me least is at my mothers home.

Anyway, I am going to seperate my emotions from the financial side of this. I am going to get the best deal as I can in this. I am going to call my attorney today and see about winning custody and my chances there. I want to live with my childeren full time. I will no longer fight for my WW's love. I will fight for my childeren's best interests. If this requires me to move back home and change jobs to better hours, albeit less pay, then so be it.

I must go do some work for a few hours but will be back to post how I feel.

Good Morning! I'm sooo sorry that you had to go through that with your kids.

I strongly feel that Plan B is your best option right now; however, I don't feel that you are the one that needs to move out!

I'm very happy that you have decided to fight this...I'm not sure but I know in my state you can have the OP removed from the house...petition for removal...legally force her out...then she really has to deal with her A. Please ask your attorney about this.

I hope that you are able to get your head and heart in sync. I can't imagine how hard this is for you!

(((((A2)))))

Wishing you the best!

Alrey,

I still feel the same way as above. I think you may be making a mistake legally and it may be seen as abandonment of your family. I feel certain that her lawyers will use that against you. It may hurt your chances for any kind of fair settlement in custody hearings. JMO.

You really need to see a lawyer and get some good advice.

Throw her clothes on the front lawn, change the locks and STAY HOME!

YOU need to be the one fighting for family as she runs around with this kid. You have the deck in your favor. Keep it that way.

Moving out deems you powerless!

STOP BEING A PUSHOVER!!!

Confront the kid, but don't get physical. Confront his MOTHER. I'd think a 23 YO kid would RUN with just a few inconveniences put in his path.

I do have Italian blood.....may you find some of mine now.
C

Second That!!!!!!!!!!

So, is it concenses that I return home to plan A her and protect my children until the day of the final divorce decree. At such time if I lose custody and the home, then I plan B? Plan B as a divorcee?

Also, I talked to my attorney today. See when I went to the house last night to say good bye to my kids, the kids told me mom had called and said she would not make it for supper and they should eat summer sausage and crackers. I was there until 7:30 and the kids started back school from Christmas break the next day(today). Bed time is 8:00 for the little ones. I do not know what time my WW got home she told me today 7:30 but I was there until then. I told my attorney that I did not think I could honor the mediation agreement on child custody if this is how she acted when she thought I would not be there.

He told me to document it and if we can show a pattern, this is good evidence. I asked about being gone from the home for the next 2 months if this would hurt me legally in regards to the custody. He says no and in fact being gone will give her more rope to hang herself with. The problem I have not being there is I can not see what she is doing all the time to document. The problem with being there is then she has me to say "well he was home with them". We need to show how she acts when I am not there

Stupidly, I answered her call today and kind of argued with her about last night and the kids. So much for my work in Plan A. She ended up hang up when I told her I was coming back home to protect my kids. She said I make stuff up about how she raises them and she has never neglected them.

Anyway now I am even more lost as to what to do.

NO...No PLan A...kiss her @ss out...that's what I'm talking about enabling her A...you are allowing her to continue her A in your present...effecting not only you but the kids...

Your kids NEED one stable parent and right now that NOT your W...

I'm not trying to be pushy...really I'm not...thing is with her out of the house her A really affects her...you can also document after she out of the house...what kind of parent she is...

Do you feel that it's safe to leave the kids alone for hours on end with you 45 minutes away...

I remember my mother being gone ALL night once...I can remember thinking that she was in an accident, dead, etc...that was tramaic for me...What can this do to your kids?

Rinder,

I see your point that it would really effect the affair if she was out of home and away from the kids but really, how on earth could I get her to leave. I told her before that she should leave, not me. She says that she would but she is on the loan docs for the morgage and she will not leave the morgage to me to pay because I could hurt her credit. Also she says she would take the kids with her.

So, how do you make someone leave the home when they refuse?

I am not trying to be dificult but I don't see it happening!

Did you ask your lawyer about the petition for removal?


I understand THIS is a difficult sitch! I admire your strenght up to this point.

I'm speaking out of care and concern.

I am worried about your DS14...she is being put in the position of having to 'Take care" of her sibling...to a child this is controlling them...teaching her unhealthy habits/patterns for down the road...

I'm sure that she is intelligent, and responsible enough to care for them...but in extreme cases like a fire while they sleep should something happen to one on those kids...she could feel that IT IS HER FAULT...

Please consult your laywer again...ask about the mortgage...and how you can set it up for your WW to pay you child support to help paid for things like the mortgage...

Supporting you...offering you a different POV...

Don't try to make her leave just get yourself home and protect your kids.

Document everything she is doing.

She will do it whether you are there or not. But your kids needs you at home.

And by the way I would get another opinion about abandonment. It has happened before in numerous other cases such as yours. The BS leaves because they can't be at home for what ever reason then the WS lawyers use it against the BS.

Everytime she is out with OM, drop her [censored] to the curb. Don't be afraid of a WW. Let her know that this isn't acceptable as long as you are married. Eventually she'll either break it off or move out. Enact and enforce some marital boundaries. Don't let your WW, stinking with the stench of adultery and sex, enter the home and be around your children. Do whatever is legal and tip-toe right up to the line. Women cannot love a man they don't respect. She doesn't respect you. If you do this, at least she'll respect you. I would also hire a PI to watch this punk kid cheat on your WW. If you want to save your family it is all out war.

Yesterday I thought I had it all figured out. I would move to plan B and make her miss me. Now I don't know. It should still be plan B, but her out. Not sure how to get her out.

If I go to the house and stay for the kids, with her there, I will either need to plan A her or fight to try and get her out. Or do I ingnore her completely with the D ever approaching.

Gosh this is impossible. I think I should have stayed Plan A. At least we got along even if she was faking it. I still think some things were getting through.

Easier still would be to move out and on and forget I ever knew her.

Yes, I know the respect thing is big. I kinda thought leaving her and sticking to it would gain some respect from her. Man she would blow a gasket if I threw her stuff out.

This would be your old brain, the part that makes us want to fight or flight...

Your new brain knows that there are other options available to you.

How about plan F-U? That's the plan your WW is using and I think the plan Jim is referring to! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Second that Again.

You need to take a stand somwhere. Moving out is not a stand it is caving in.

With you out she will sooner than you think be bringing the little boy over to play.

So what, what is she going to do, cheat on you? Oh wait, she already is. I guess there's nothing more to be afraid of.

A2 worte:
Gosh this is impossible. I think I should have stayed Plan A. At least we got along even if she was faking it. I still think some things were getting through.


M2L:

At least you got along. WHAT? You get along while some punk a55 kid is getting it on with your wife.

Stand up and let them hear you today!!!! You are the H and father - time to man up. It is not easy, he(( if it were easy this site would not need to be here.


Come on man

I would also pay the kid and his mother a visit as well. Go over there with a friend if you need one to keep from going at him (and make it a large friend for intimidation purposes).

LOL!!

Clothes on the front lawn and driveway send a STRONG statement not only to her, but the whole neighborhood! She will be mad but embarassed. I'd go with that. You show her she can't hide from you or the A anymore.

also, somehow, the 23YO needs to have a CTJ meeting and piss his pants with fear.

I'll go with you - you near Milwaukee???

I do understand that moving out seems like giving up but I know reality would kick her rear soon. The bills will bury her and she would miss me cleaning and taking care of kids. All the stuff I improved in Plan A.

As far as the A. She knows I do not approve of this. I have enforced a few boundaries in the 6 months. She used to take his calls in front of me. When she did it after I asked her not to, I blew up. This is when she tried to get the restaining order. She no longer does this.

Isn't standing up and letting them hear me a LB. Is it not an angry outburst? I do let her know all the time the hurt she is causing and the risk she runs of loosing everything, but in plan A I learned to walk away when I got angry enough to LB.

Do I now go home and LB?

I do like the FU plan but would need to do it with out LBing. I try not to get to mad because when I do I shredd stuff. Usually something expensive.

I would need to be carful in the FU plan.

Just be calm and firm. You don't need to be angry. Tell her in a calm voice that she is not welcome in the marital home as long as she is having an affair, and that you and the children won't stand for it. Tell her she can resume her affair when the divorce is final, but not until that day, otherwise she is not welcome. You children will really respect you for taking a stand like that.

Plan FU is when you do get to LB. It has worked a few times that I recall reading about. It slaps the WS in the face and hard.

the BS has been so nice and good, nerver says a bad thing and then FU!!!! Get out!!!!! you SOB!!!! we are done!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


But not yet. Go with what Jim just gave you and add that there is no place in a M for 3 people.

M2L,

Is Kansas City near enough to Milwaukee?

too much snow for me.

Are you guys sure plan B can not be effective if the BS is the one to move?

I do want to return to the house. I don't like looking wishy-washy about what I am doing to WW or the kids. Talk about lost respect. I did tell them I was leaving.

Southwest has some good fares out of California!

Conveniently enough they both work at the Kansas City Airport.

Well it is almost time for me to get off work. I do not know where I may end up tonight. If I go home I have no comp as I took it to my mothers yesterday. So I maybe unavailable for comments.

Thanks for everyones input today. I have much to think about and sort through. As if the A and M and DV are not enough to constantly dwell on. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Alrey:

You said somewhere before that you'd coached with Jennifer? If so, what does she advise you do? (or do I have you confused with someone else?).

Throwing her stuff out is illegal, but it could be very effective. Just be prepared 2 pay for anything that gets damaged, stolen, or whatever.

I think it was Fishwife who, some years back, was asked by her WH if she could give him his stuff (he'd moved in with the OW). She loaded it all up and delivered it - with a DUMP TRUCK - right on the OW's front lawn. Lots of things got broken in the process of being dumped in a pile like that, and she had 2 pay for it, but she claimed that it was worth it.

She and her WH recovered sometime later, if I remember correctly.

What happens if you don't go 2 plan B and just wait for the DV 2 be finalized? Who gets the house then? Can you buy it from her between now and then? Ask her 2 quit claim it over 2 you so all you have 2 do is continue 2 make the payments. Then MAKE them.

Or, put the house on the market so you both start over with places of your own without the "marital home" stigma 2 deal with. Make sure yours has adequate accommodations for your kids, of course.

-ol' 2long

I live in St. Charles, MO.

(((((((A2)))))))

Just wanted to check in on you. I understand that you are in a lot of pain and wanted to let you know that you have my full support no matter what you chose to do. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope that you had a peaceful night!

I just came back and read your thread.

YOu re getting some great advice here. I will just echo it-- get yourself back HOME. Worried about looking wishywashy? Just tell your kids you realized that you should stay home for THEM and not let someone who 'isn't thinking right' make all the decisions.

PLEASE-- go to the OM's house and SPEAK WITH HIS MOM face to face. Tell her about your children, ask her to help you end his adulterous affair because of the pain it is causing your babies. Whether she helps or not, she is definately going to say something to Junior. Either way, you have just rocked teh boat in his peaceful home and made someone uncomfortable there. Heck, I'd try to track down his father as well.

I hope today finds you at home with your children.

I moved out of my home for 4/5 days. My wife called me all the time about nothing really, she just wanted to talk. Well Sat morning I packed my things and went home. The kids were thrilled and I told my wife that I'm not staying at the other place anymore. I'm home for good and like always she can leave anytime. SHE NEVER DID.

Respect? she told me last month that she respected that I did this and it showed her that I was a man. DUH - what did she think I was while she was fogged out?

Alrey,

How are you?

Just checkin' on you Alrey. Hope you are doin OK!

Really concerned...hope that you check in soon!

Supporting you no matter what! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi all,

Sorry I have been gone for a few days. Here is a quick update.

As you know, last Wed. I packed up my things and left for my mothers to start plan B. Many of you told me to go home. I felt as if I could no longer take living with my WW.

Well, Thursday I had several not so nice talks to the WW on the phone. I was upset at her for coming home after the kids bedtime the very first day I was gone, I was upset about the jewlery the Om got her and she continues to wear in front of me, I was upset about her cashing in our change jug that had 1500 in it. I found out my WW took off work early and I left her a message that instead of taking off early to go see her boy(OM), she should go spend some quality time with her kids and better yet she could have taken these times all along to work on her marriage and we might not be where we are now.

I can not stand being gone from my home and kids so I decided to go home. When I got there my WW and kids were gone. I did not know if she took them somewhere away from me or if just to dinner. I left several messages about me having the same right to the kids as her and I hoped she was not doing somthing to try to keep them away from me. They came home from dinner about 8:30 and I helped put them to bed. The night ended with not much conversation. Wehn asked about the night before and the kids bedtime she replied, "so you can come and go as you please and I have a set time to be home?" To which I told her I would gladly be the one to take care of the kids permanently and that I would not be honoring the custody agreement we made. I told her I would be going after primary custody to protect the kids from her and her A.

Friday, I tried to call her at work to talk. For some reason just having her on the phone and hearing her voice seems to calm me. She refused to answer all day. She was quite upset that I had come back home, I guess. That night, when we all got home, I told her that I did not want her wearing her affair trophies in front of me and the kids. When she argued that the OM did not buy the jewlery, I asked the kids what they thought of Mommy wearing her gifts from her boyfriend in front of us. WW tells me "go ahead show your AZZ, you might as well go ahead and break something and get it over with". Calmly and firmly I told her I would not be breaking anything and that she was the one showing her Azz by having and affair and wanting a DV.

I proceeded to ask our 14 year old, in front of WW and other kids, what she thought of Moms' desire to be with her boyfriend. I told them that Mommy had plans to move him in to live with them once she DV me. The kids did not say much and I did not really expect and comments from them. The night proceeded with me telling WW I did not approve of the A.

The night ended uneventfully. The next day, Saturday, my WW was off work and cleaned the house while I was at work. She has not cleaned in months. I did all of this in my plan A. I figure she only did this to show me she could do it all herself. She called me at work and asked me to bring somethings home with me as the Chiefs playoff game was going to be on. Saturday evening was quite but I still mentioned the jewlery and continued my disapproval of her A.

Sunday we were both off. She continued to clean the house as I did work outside. The kids had a birthday party at my mothers. My WW took them at 4:30 and was to go shopping during it and then pick them up. They get home at 9:00. So my WW had 3-4 hours to "shop", this word is a trigger for me because she has used this time to go see OM thoughout the A. She only came home with a few groceries. I told her I know she went to see him. She claimed not enough time etc. I am sure but not positive she did. She did buy items to make some of my favorite meals and said she would be cooking them the next few days.

Yesterday, Monday, I was off work and she was not. Since my WW had met some of my needs like cleaning and cooking, I went ahead and finished off the house cleaning. I know she is not intending to meet any of my needs other than to avoid me saying she is not thinking of her kids, but she did meet some of my needs. She worked a little late but came home and cooked a knockout dinner. I pigged out and told her how good it was. We put the kids to bed and talked about her work, my work, her sister that has 3 boys and dates many men and how the latest is being seen as so great by her and her mother because he played with her boys on the second date. I told my WW, "you know he is trying to bed your sister right? Why do you guys see him as so great? He palys with these kids like he knows them, it is not good for the kids, but this guy knows what he is doing to get in your sisters pants." My WW agreed that this guy had other motives and her sister and mother should not allow him to use the kids.

Later, on the porch, as I looked at my WW, I could not get over how beautiful she looks to me. I told her so and she only responded, "OK". I know she does not want to hear this stuff but I had to say it.

I do not really know if she is still seeing the OM, although all signs point to it. I also am not sure about her reactions to me packing up and leaving then coming back. She proceeded to meet a few of my needs and seemed to be affected in a good way when I told her how I felt about the A, even though most of it was pointing the finger squarely at her for the marital problems.

I think she is just doing what she thinks she needs to do to appease me and get to the final DV day. She thinks all will be better when we DV and I am forced to leave.

What she does not realize is my plan. I am going to fight for my kids and my home. I talked with my attorney and although he said I should stay gone to give her rope to hang herself in regards to the kids, he was very supportive of me fighting for the kids.

Anyway, a few eventful days, a few stearn talks with the WW, a decision to fight for what I want and moving back home. This is what I have been doing. How it will all turn out is very much a mystery. I need to know how to proceed with WW also. Do I plan A more? I can't just live there and ignore her. If she continues to meet needs for me my giver will want to reciprocate. I will still be firm on the A though.

What do you guys think of the situation?

Do I plan A more?

What you did is not in plan A.

NEVER PUT THE KIDS IN THE MIDDLE AGAIN!!!


Plan A is not about pointing your finger at your wife and telling her these things. She knows you don't approve of the A. Stop telling her so.

I don't see too much of her meeting any of your needs. So she cooked a good dinner and cleaned the house. You will not get any real needs met until the A is over. You will see it in her eyes when it's over.

I think the A is still going on.

Sorry I sound so rude, but you need to wake up here.

M2L,

Exposure is what I did with my kids. I read on here from people all the time to expose to the kids. This is what I was doing. The kids are in the middle of a storm and I thought they needed to know why Mommy wants to DV Dad. I did put them in the middle of anything they are not already in.

As far as plan A goes. If I am to be at home I will need to have some sort of plan on how I interact with my WW. I can not just be there and ignore her.

I do believe it was you who told me last week to stand up and be heard to my WW about her actions. To man up as you put it. I feel that I did this very thing this past weekend.

Yes you did man up. You moved back home. That is very good.

you worte: I can not just be there and ignore her.

You will have to ignore things like her fog talk, the jewelry and things like that. Everytime you LB on things like that she will add that to her list of why she is doing the right thing by wanting to D you. Don't add to the list.

The kids know that there is a problem, but don't say things like this:

"I asked the kids what they thought of Mommy wearing her gifts from her boyfriend in front of us."

"I proceeded to ask our 14 year old, in front of WW and other kids, what she thought of Moms' desire to be with her boyfriend. I told them that Mommy had plans to move him in to live with them once she DV me"

This puts them in the middle of not wanting to make mom or dad mad for saying the wrong thing. No matter what they say one parent will not like their answer.

You want to fight the A, but not by BLing. You will need to control that part better. It is HARD I know, but needs to be done.

This is one reason I wanted to go to Plan B. If I ignore her affair tokens and her actions during the A, I am enabling the A. If I stand up for myself and speak out, I am LBing. I can do no right it seems. At least in plan B I am removed from it all.

Letting her wear jewelry is not enabling her. Paying for her cell phone and watching the kids so she can talk to and hang out with OM is enabling. Get this in your mind. I'll post more later.

Have you considered that she could have cleaned the house because you said that you were going to fight for the kids?

I would bring a certain amount of reality to her regarding her A, but I agree that you should not include the kids in the future like you did.

I think that put your 14 yr old. in a horrible position of choosing b/t mommy and daddy. That must have been scary for her.

Rinder,

Yes, I have no doubt that she did the cleaning because she learned of my decision to fight her for the kids.

As far as the kids, I guess I exposed them to the A in the wrong way, but it was exposure none the less. Now I can go back to keeping the dirty little secret for my WW and away from them, at least until OM moves in.

As far as my plans? The final divorce court is Feb 27. I am going to try and stay in the home until the courts kick me out. I am going to fight for what I want. I want my kids to live with me full time in our marital home. I would like my W to be with us but this is her decision and nothing I have done, including exposure and plan A, have done anything to change her A or DV plans. Staying home is going against what Jennifer and my lawyer suggest but I feel centered there so I will stay.

When this DV goes through, I will be at the end of my marathon. Hopefully, I will have primary custody, the home and support from WW. If not, then she will have the kids, the home and support from me. I will be able to say I tried to save me kids from her and her A. I will be finacially broke and in need of counseling but what the heck.

What about talking to the "kids" OM mother? Show up at her home and talk to her about her little boy and how he is breaking up your kids home.

M2L,

I have actually talked with the OM's mom many months ago when I first discovered his phone number. I could be tempted to talk to her again. I am off again on Thurs and will consider this action.

Heres a thought.

Why not pay her a visit and bring along pictures of your kids. Play on her being a mom herself.

Worth a shot

I don't think that you should hide it...I mean if it comes out again, simply state the facts...don't ask the kids questions...say in front of your WW about what they think about mommie's behavior...this puts you in a bad light...not just in WW's eyes but in the kids...

No child wants their parents to talk bad about the other and being young they could see it in this light...regardless of your intentions not to...

Just trying to give you another POV...I would simply state the truth...if WW gets a call from OM and the kids are around tell WW that you don't appreciate her A affecting the kids and you. If you know that she's going to meet him or she's out with him and the kids ask where she is tell them...

Don't hide the truth, they are smart enough to figure things out on their own anyway...

YOU are doing good...


What did Jennifer suggest that you do? I must have missed that you spoke with her.

There was something else I wanted to ask but I forgot what it was...something in your other post...OH, did you tell WW that you didn't appreciate the fact that she DJed you on throwing something?

Have you thrown things in the past? I know my FWH has and I thought that he was trying to intimidate me in order to control me and therefore get what he wanted. Have you started taking responsible for your part of your M? The part that you are at fault for...your part of creating a problem...blowing the problem up...

I ask b/c this was hard for me and I'm sure others as well...it's diffucult to face the truth...my FWH said that I was trying to control him...had said it for years and I didn't want to hear it...I had to give some merit to his truth and open my eyes...

Then, I'm not saying that you should do this, just sharing what I did...I waited for the right time (in my eyes...LOL) and admitted to him that I thought he was right...

As time went on, I would see more, and admit more to him...Then, do my best to change that behavior...I remember you said that you have changed alot...I heard you and I think you are doing wonderful...

Still supporting you and blessed to share my stuff with you!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think I missed this also. I would never go against what the Harleys say. They are the true pros.

Please fill us in on this.

Rinder and M2L,

Yes, I will tell my kids the truth when it is appropriate and refrain from asking them questions or otherwise making them think I am talking bad about their mother. I admit I handled it wrong this weekend.

It is so very frustating. I have been in plan A for 6 month and have made home a safe and comforting place, trying to be a lighthouse to guide my WW home. Sadly, she shows no real signs of coming back to the marriage and I feel less than strong as a lighthouse.

I have talked with Jennifer twice now. Once in the beginning, in which she instructed me on Plan A, she wanted me to call again before going to Plan B. Then after my WW was gone for 4 days during Thanksgiving (kids were at my mothers) I decided it was time to talk to her about plan B. She suggested I move to plan B during the holidays because they can be a big reality bringer. I could not bring myself to leave the kids 2 short weeks before Christmas, so I stayed.

I thought things got better and thought WW and OM had broken up, but then the mysterious jewlery came up and my WW spent more time away from home when the kids were at Grandma's again for Christmas.

This brought me here with this very thread. I had had enough and was preparing to go to plan B.

As far as my past in my marriage. Yes, I had a bad temper and may times during disagreements I would throw things or bash a phone as I hung up on her. This behaviour definetly contributed to the marriage problems. I have worked hard on controling my temper and now turn and walk away instead of letting her bait me and drag me into a loss of control.

I have owned up to many of the contributions I made to the down turn in my marriage. I talk with her about these things as they come up and tell her I now know how badly they affected her. I did not talk to her much, played comp games to often, did not always show her I loved her, did not work for a year after closing a business I opened 5 years earlier, I also blamed her back then for the business failure even though I was to blame and knew it. My WW had the right to divorce me long ago but choose to had 3 differant A's in 8 years.

I have owned up to my parts, most definetly. It would seem though that the damage was done long ago and she will not forgive me.

Thanks for sharing your stuff, this is some of mine.

I feel that I may have left a few of the last statements to open. So, here is a little more.

In 95' I opened a childerens play facility with slides, tubes, ball pits, games, inflated bouncers, bumper boats ect. My W and I were dating in the beginning, we married in 98'. My rent went up each year according to the lease and I could see by year 3 that we might not make it much longer. I fell into depression and did not work the business for the last year or so. My W tried to keep it a float but always came home to an angry, depressed, throwing blame around husband.

After the business closed my W went to work and I did not. I was truely dibilitated by my failure and the depression that came with it. I owed the Fed gov well over 30k in back taxes and I had to claim bankruptcy over the 250k I borrowed to open the business. I was a failure to myself, my W, my step child and my newly born baby.

It was during this time that my W found a guy at work that listened to her and sympothized. She became a WW. She did not tell me of any of this until this past June when she exposed all to me. This A lasted 1 year.

I got on antidepressents and started to try and rebuild my life. I knew though that something was wrong between my W and I. I became jeleous and controlling. I accused her of flirting and leading guys on. I complained of her makeup or clothes. She started her second A and it lasted 1 year until she says "we were doing much better".

I had a sense that she had done something but she made me feel like I was just crazy and had issues, for many years. Then this past June she told me of the past A's and of the current one and that she wanted a D.

Now, I have been better mentally for several years but still accused her and questioned her on nights out. As it turns out, I was right to feel that something had happened many years ago. I feel so stupid for my part in it and for allowing myself to be fooled for so many years.

Stupider still, besides the word stupider, I still feel in love with her and want to make this work. She does not feel this way towards me and is in an active A. She thinks she loves this one. I have made large strides in meeting her EN and being a better husband and father but as she says, "it is to late"

(((((((A2)))))

I feel like with this new info that I have no words to share that would be benefical...the only thing I can think of is that you call Jennifer again and explain your present sitch...

Did you tell her that this is the third A for your WW?

I hope that with all of the advice that you have been given that you do what YOU feel is safe for you...What YOU need to move forward...

I'm so glad that you are feeling better...mentally...I see that You have done a lot of work...

Kudos! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would flag down Mr W and learn how to do damage control on what you did to your children today - this will not go well in a custody hearing, I can promise you. It was cruel to them. Your wife doesn't deserve squat as far as respect goes - but your children need protection.

I have a foster sister who still calls my mother "Mom" and visits us every summer even though she lives two states away. (I'm out west where two states is a significant distance). Her father was the cheater - her mother reamed him in front of the children about how evil and wicked his choices were - all the while he was working the children telling them that they didn't love him if they chose to live with their mother... Guess why she chose to live with us instead? (my little sister was her best friend).

Don't ever put your children in that position again - ever!

You may want to strategize a sit down with the children to answer their questions but return permission and safety for them to love their mother unconditionally, even if they don't agree with her behavior. You made their authentic feelings of revulsion about their mother's actions a little less authentic because you bullied them today and put them in the intolerable position of "judging" their parents.

Damage control now!