Very Messy situation NEED HELP....were do I begin?????

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I'm so glad I found this site,I wish I would have known about it sooner!!I'll try not to make this a book <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I've known my husband since we were 15 years old,first loves ect.We have been married for 4 years now.3 Of those years have been Hell(lost 2 pregnancies,and health issue's,money,we went through alot,lost sight of each other..we were once so madly in love I miss those times.

We had a miracle baby who is 17 months old now.The minute I had him things really got bad,he was upset I was too much a mommy,put his needs on a shelf.
He started calling me every name in the book,hitting me,totally lost respect for me as a person!!
I was working from home making more then his 40 hour music job.I payed for alot of bills,and he was always complaining that I never bought him cool things big things so I went out and saved bought him 2,000 worth of new recording gear.I had to make sure my son got food ect.
He would go out to his buddies house to record(but only at night),his excuse was that was the only time he had available.
It started off one night a month that was two years ago!
He does have a nice side to him,when he does see his son.It's split 50/50**good and evil I kid not.
He started going out with his friends more and more leaving me out of everything,leaving me and our son out of everything!!
Bills got way behind cause he was going out spending all his money on music gear.I couldn't pay for all the bills on my own.
He started telling me that women were hitting on him at work(non work there)and he could have date alot of people if he wanted.
He would through his wedding ring at me,go weeks without wearing it.
It got so bad I couldn't bring anything up with out him pushing me against a wall and pointing in my face yelling at me.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I was scared confused depressed..I went to couseling they told me to leave..I went to the pastor he told me to leave.
I stayed, kept trying to please him.He became colder and colder,where was the sweet man I once knew!?
He was never home never played much with our son,became more distant..took care of himself before the family.On our anniversary that year he wouldn't celabrate it,wouldn't open my card.We moved into a new place in May-02 he bought me flowers.Wow!! first time in a long time!!
We had sex first time in 6 months,cause he said i wasn't skinny enough i was 150...no one can figure that one out...I'm very pretty,but he wouldn't touch me. No kisses no hugs
Then he went out and got himself a cell phone,but wouldn't let me near it.Then July He wanted a Break to Heal he said...he wanted me to give him ALOT OF SPACE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
He went so far as to ask me to move in with my parents,with our son.I told him no way,he was gone all the time started tanning,lost 25Lbs,went out and bought a bag,new underwear,after he got out of work he showered wouldn't eat with us,packed his bag for the night and left at 10pm.
He said he was going to hotels,and his buddies house.This was JULY-02
I started looking around found hidden in a box in the garage.Womens Numbers,Bed and Breakfast and Condom reciepts,Love letters to two other women!!

Continued on next post~

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Continued:
I found Porn(Teen,and adult)In our basement as well.When I confronted him about everything,he told me he needed to think.He came and went when he wanted to everytime telling me he wanted me out!! He would even pack our bags for us.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I just couldn't beleieve it.So I told him even though he was cheating on me I still Loved him and wanted to move past this..work on Both our issue's and get help.
His anwser*I just need space,he denied his affairs claiming they were good friends going through the samething.That the condoms were for someone else,that I had a jaded view of it all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
So I started packing up oour place...my sons room I had just decorated.I called both numbers,both women knew he was married they even knew about each other.Told me I needed to talk to Ken about it.
I told him over and over..leave the affairs and we can get help.His answer I have no reason to!!
They give me all I need <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Ya,one is 20 and comes from a rich family she gave him a sports car.The other lady is 24,married at the time...she filed two weeks before I did,because her husband was cheating on her(she has two young babies).
One night before he went out **I WILL NOT FORGET THIS.He told me he wasn't sorry,I should hear the way Ow Moans when he's doing her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Telling me what size bra she wore,how perfect and sexy she was.I can't Believe how Low he got!!
On my last night there,he brought other women to our house and was kissing her in our livingroom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
I acted like it didn't bug me,and finished my packing.I moved out with our son and filed two days before my 25th b-day.
We went to court he is to have supervised visitation with our son,he comes to see him weeknights at 9pm when he's sleeping.Whats the point!!??
His weekends he's too busy with the other women.He keeps telling me I need to prove myself to him That I will treat him like the stud <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> he is..pretty much.
He's now talking about moving out of state,with the lady who's divorcing too.
It's just a mess!!
I guess I need to do plan B? What do I do? Can I save this?

Please hELP ME.....

I put my son to bed tonight,it just breaks my heart.His dad kicked us out,and hangs out with ow's children.My maid of honor happens to know the girl,he's been sleeping over there..what does her children think? My friend said there going through counseling because her 5 year old is acting up,and she's got a 3 year old too.
My friend is soooo upset she won't talk to Marcy any more.Because she says Ken(my husband) was going to leave me anyways and it was just fate.
My friend said well if thats what it is then you shouldn't be too upset at your husbands mistress,the women you spit in her face!!
She was like I know I know I sound like such a slut.I just want Ken(my husband) to be happy.
And if he wants me to pack up my kids and for us to move to another state thats fine but were not seriose or anything.
She laughed of the notion of him seeing the other girl,she says there only friends.
But I know****I have the letters to all his girlfriends.Unless he's got some new ones added now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
I'm just so hurt/so angry/sooooooo Broken.

I think leaving him was the right thing to do. He was abusing you, and here at this site, it is NOT recommended for a couple to stay together in those circumstances, unless the abuser is mortally repentant, will seek counselling and apply all the MB principles to the relationship.

Your H sounds very immature, and seems to be acting out like he has missed out on his sowing his wild oats. If he is sleeping around like that, you must NOT sleep with him, because he could give you any number of sexually transmitted diseases.

The worst of it is he is throwing it in your face. Had my stbx done that to me, I would now be in jail for murder. Lucky he didn't, he isn't worth it. You need to try and stick by your decision to divorce him, because it is the only thing left for you. I am so sorry to say that, because even though he has hurt you so badly, you still want him, right? So expect that it will take you a long time to get over him.

Heartbroken as you are, at least you are young enough to begin a new life. There are still lots of opportunities out there for you. You have your child, and supportive friends and family, so that is a good start. Please come here often, because it is a good site for support when you are grieving the loss of your marriage.

Love and light,

Jacky

Ok. You're a bit younger than I, 33, but am also divorcing a serial cheater. He is non repentant so far.

But you've found MB. Good for you. A and B sites here deal with this issue well. You are not at all alone. I suggest going through and reading ALL OF THE MATERIALS ON THIS SITE AS FAR AS AFFAIRS GO. THE CONCEPT OF HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS AS WELL. And I would also suggest MB counseling for you to begin with. You can do phone counseling.

Get the book, Surviving an Affair. Also get the book "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson. More of a spiritual approach to adultery. And in the meanwhile, DON'T LISTEN TO THE GARBAGE. DON'T GET INVOLVED IN THE MIND GAMES. STAY AWAY FROM IT. ONLY COULD CAUSE MORE CONFUSION. Get armed with the right information. YOu could theoretically still save your M. That is good news. But alot of poop has gone on. Fact he wants you to treat him differently is one clue. But there may be other factors going on here. Taht is why you need the counseling. See if wH will go to. And please, be easy on yourself. Protect your emotions now so you can be 100 percent for that baby ok? Get right spiritually with God.

And another thing to do...FORGET TOTALLY WHAT YOUR WH IS DOING NOW. READ UP ON THE FOG. He is lost in that fog of adultery. It is a real place that normal people go and become totally abnormal. Ok? DO NOT FEED INTO THEIR GAMES NOR PUMP YOUR FRIEND, THIS BRIDESMAID, FOR QUESTIONS. HE IS CHEATING ON ALL WOMEN HERE OK? NOT JUST YOU, BUT MS. SPORTSCAR AND MS. UNHAPPY MOM WITH THE OTHER KIDS. He is REALLY CONFUSED AS I SEE IT. Confusion in the fog is good. My WH is just dead set on wrecking his life as he sees it, is a good thing.

But YOU MUST ACT NOW. Don't react to him. Get the right info and do the right actions now. You're here. That is gr eat. Now go to A and B and get some answers from those guys there. And also, get MB counseling from the pros. REad read read. Learn also.

You can do it.

If he hit you, you are better off now that you are out of the house. I do not know of any man who hits his wife and deserves to have her stick around. I have been a less than perfect husband for years, I have my faults (which do NOT include affairs and abuse) and take responsibility for my actions but I don't think I could live with myself if I ever struck my wife. Saving a marriage is one thing, but saving your life is another. This may sound a little harsh, but get out and don't look back. If he hit you, chances are good that he has the capacity to hit your child. Don't take that chance.

Best of luck to you. Be safe.

Your H sounds very immature, and seems to be acting out like he has missed out on his sowing his wild oats. If he is sleeping around like that, you must NOT sleep with him, because he could give you any number of sexually transmitted diseases.

Nina.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> as time passed he seemed to become more and more immature.Whats sad is I still Love this Man I can't imagine my life without the old him.Whats strange is there was no abuse when we were dating only after we had our son,he was under alot of stress and anxity problems.
And now he claims he hasn't had a panic attack for months <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> he doesn't have as much stress.
But he does claim to be UnHappy....and had to do what he had to do to survive~ That it will take time for him to see changes in me.Everythings one sided!!!
The judge ordered him to pay alot of the bills when he did come over at night to visit his son,he would always try to get me to give him money for the bills the judge said he had to pay.
He kept saying prove yourself to me.
So a week ago I gave him 200 dollars,and 3 days ago told him I wanted things to work out but he has ONE WEEK TO Leave the other women!!!!
He said~After 2 years of problems your only giving me a week?
What will you do? I didn't say anything***Plan B all the way No Contact!!
I haven't heard from him,thats fine,he has until Fri....I'm just really sick of all the games <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
His parents have been awful,that whole side of the family..BLAME ME I CAUSED HIM TO HIT ME(I WAS A MEAN WOMEN BY CALLING THE Police).
I DROVE HIM TO THE AFFAIR.THEY SAID I GAVE HIM AWAY!!!!
THEY ARE PAYING HIS ATTORNEY,HIS BILLS....AND WROTE ME SAYING THEY DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT HOW I AM...Only how there grand child is doing!!
They live in Florida and have only seen my son once <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

(((Thanx Peachy)))

I will start Reading,and using your advice......thank you!!!!

If he hit you, you are better off now that you are out of the house. I do not know of any man who hits his wife and deserves to have her stick around. I have been a less than perfect husband for years, I have my faults (which do NOT include affairs and abuse) and take responsibility for my actions but I don't think I could live with myself if I ever struck my wife. Saving a marriage is one thing, but saving your life is another. This may sound a little harsh, but get out and don't look back. If he hit you, chances are good that he has the capacity to hit your child. Don't take that chance.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Chances are if he did give up the other women...we still have differant morals,he's abusive,he's into pot now since the affairs.
I mean I have my issues too i'm insucure(sp?),that was a big one for me cause he never made me feel special...ect
I've noticed I feel Better about myself now,the only thing wierd is it's hard for me to look in any males eyes,even while talking.Can't figure that one out!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hey there,

I just had a surprise visit from Husband..he wanted to talk to me.He claimed he was unhappy he didn't miss me but missed our son.
That maybe when the waters calm down we could get cousel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ,it's a bunch of mind games!!
Then he stated that " THE PAST IS THE FUTURE, REVISITED!"
And he hated the wife I was I was a Bad wife,couldn't cook good,clean good enough ect..he has his list.
I told him I may have flaws but he had some pretty huge issue's to deal with.
Tears started welling up in his eyes.It's all his game.
Then he says I wanted you..but the other ladies are like you used to be~~~~
I said Ken I miss the Old you too,he will forever be in my-heart not the man who called me every name in the book,and hit me.
I know I know we all did screwed up things.
Ken you do not love us enough If you did you would be getting help right now and would of left the realationships.
He left.

Hmmmmm The Past is the future revisited...(ya if you don't deal with your demons).What do you think???

Mary, I know you love him and you have a child together.... BUT he is mentally and physically
abusive to you and could become this way to your child. I think that both you and you child are going to be much better off without him, I know that you can't imagine that right now but why do you want to be with someone that treats you like this? I think you are in love with someone he is NOT. He is obviously very, very immature and I can't imagine his behaviour and illegal drug use is good for your or your child. You need to do what is the the long term best interest of your and your child and unless he does a 180, quits the drugs, does some serious growing up and getting some professional help, you need to move on, you do deserve MUCH better than this.
Sorry if this is harsh but under NO circumstance should you be in an abusive relationship.
Good luck, I know it is not easy but doing the right thing rarely is.
Dave

Thank you Davepr,

I wish God could take this horrible feeling away.One day I'm fine,then I think about all the old good times..before the marriage.I met Ken at church,I was a youth leader..he was a rebal.His family was very involved,in the church.
Ken stopped his rebal ways foe years we...were dating that whole time.We married it all came back,he was my first love my first everything.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Whats worse about divorce then Death is there still here....
I was(still kinda am)in love with a person who has mental problems now or is a good actor.
Yes It is better for my son not to be around that.I grew up in a family with half brothers and sisters and it was very strange.
I worry about my son and the road that lies ahead.

Thank you for your post....I need to vent once and awile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HI my friends, I wrote out all the prayer requests this morning in my journal. The pain in all of them is very clear. The prayer we need is for all WS to fall to their knees in repentance. That the Lord will take their hearts of stone, and turn them into hearts of flesh. He is able.
Also that the BS's will be changed to be what the Lord wants us to be. It is so easy when we have been betrayed to get into a "pity party" but that is the devils greatest tool! Do you ever notice that when we are in that "PP" that is the time we have doubts and want to give up? Giving up is exactly what satan wants us to do, so in essence, giving up is giving in to the evil one. We can't allow him to take more than he already has can we?
I understand the feeling of wanting to give up, as I was there a little over a year ago. After 6 years of standing, the doubt was so strong, that I couldn't shake it. God always shows me hope when the slightest doubt comes in, but this time, He allowed me to go through the doubt for more than two weeks. I was depressed, I went to a counselor, I spoke to my pastor, I did everything I could think of to do. The day I spoke to my pastor to find out if I was crazy or not, I recalled all of God's promises to me to restore my marriage. Also the promise I made before my H and the Lord, "til death do we part" It was a covenant and I am to keep it. I realize now that I can live without my H just fine, and I do miss him at times. I am waiting on the Lord, not my H. If I had to wait on my H, I would be in hopelessness! The evening after I spoke to my pastor, the Lord finally showed me some amazing hope. Through a radio program, Focus on the Family, they were talking about Covenant Marriages, I felt the Lord was speaking directly to me, and I wept as He said "My good and faithful servant" and some good and faithful servant I was, just about to give up, then He said "It was because you did not give up that I call you a good and faithful servant."
I wept quite a bit that evening, and it was the beginning of an even stronger stand.
During the pain, is when He is molding us and making us who He wants us to be, Praise the Lord!
The changes in myself are amazing to me, and I know as I am being changed, He is working on my WH, to what extent I don't know at this point, but I trust Him. He knows the perfect time, and will restore all the marriages He has promised to do so!
May you not give up, as your miracle could be around the corner! God Bless you all!
Love in Christ, Monika
PS I just noticed this post ended up on the wrong thread, I'll re do it on the right one!
Some one here must need to read it! God Bless!

[ October 23, 2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Stillwaiting ]

Hi just thought I would write vent alittle.Last Night Ken(h)came over after work to see his son.The minute I opened the door he started crying and hugging our son.He was very emotional,it was sad for me to see him so sad.
He told me he would soon be ready to put our relationship back together he was 98% sure I'm the one.I just listened didn't say anything cause everytime I spoke up he would say "will ya just listen to me"
He asked me to come to our old place to talk next week...I told him what ever he needed to talk to me about he could tell me here.
Well he just kept saying he was waiting for me to prove one thing to him before he completly would give up all relationships.
Hmmmmmm he seemed so sincere but He would have to do a 180 and I'm not seeing that.
Now he says he's staying in Michigan moving in with a buddie.
It's wierd everytime I see him he's becoming more and more weaker looking and acting.He's so skinny now,and doesn't look healthy his clothes are falling off him.He's seems emotionally unstable,he tryed hugging me and kissing me goodbye I moved away and wouldn't let him.
Did I do what was right? It's hard to be so harse,and I'm not a mean person...so it's very hard to see him like this...eeeeeeee

Whats wrong with me,since I saw Stbx crying,and flirting,trying to put the moves on me.It really played with my head,I have to guard my heart.
He called today I shouldn't have answered but I did..and he asked me if I would let him take me out for dinner this week.
Oh Boy,I still Love this man,but I haven't seen enough of a change with the history we have.
Just needed to vent

Mary,

I dont post very often any more , but your post touched my heart. I know this sounds crazy, but consider looking into Restore Marriage International, or Rejoice Marriages. My marriage is not restored at this time, but I have found such peace. Alone1

Thank you Alone1....i'll check it out!!!!

*hugs,

Hi,
Just wanted to give you my thoughts on this situation. Mostly because, I loved my H so much that I did not want to live without him. I actually didn't think I would survive. He was my whole life. BUT, he was and is abusive, cheats, lies, thinks everyone else is inferior to him, and the list goes on. I put up with anything and everything because my focus was on "How much I loved him and wanted him in my life". This went on for probably 19 years. I kept telling myself if I could just be a better wife he would change. Well, let me tell you something about controling, selfish abusive people, they don't change! It just makes you have to live up to a higher, still unacceptable level and it still is not good enough. About 2 and a half years ago, I remember crying, thinking, "This can work, I just need to be more of what he wants me to be" BULL.... I have come to realize I can never be what he wants me to be, for one thing, he changes his expectations. He is physically abusive on occasion but more than that he is emotionally abusive. He has caused so much psychological damage to all of us that I have had it. If I had thought more of myself as a person and realized I didn't need him to make me complete, I would have seen the light years ago. My counselor has told me to get out, my pastor has told me to get out and here I am, still working to get out. Which brings me to the point I was going to make in the beginning:
I had to detatch myself from him emotionally and become withdrawn to see what he really is. I have to have more respect for myself to not allow myself to be treated this way. I always stayed so the kids would be able to see their father. Now they can't stand the sight of him. We can try with all our might and even succeed, but some things we are better off without. I read your story and I can think, "How could she stay or even want him"? But I have done exactly the same thing but for a lot longer. You deserve better, and even tho it is going to be painful making the transition, trust me, I don't think it will compare to a lifetime of living with someone like this. I know, I've done it. I am getting out as soon as I can get my ducks in a row. I wish you a lot of luck and learn to love yourself enough to not let yourself be subjected to this kind of treatment.
Free

Free Again,

Thank you so much for writing me,and sharing your story.I needed to hear it,it was an eye opener.Something I struggle with is letting GO 100% he's on my mind all the time...what is he thinking? Is he o.k? I've inrolled in classes this Jan...and have been working out,trying to forget about him.
And for some reason I can't <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Why?can't I forget maybe with time I shall.Maybe it's because he's over here visiting his son(court ordered).
And I have to deal with him,I just feel so connected..it's so strange.
I can't wait until I can look at him and pitty the man he has become....and not look back!!

I spent 18 years trying to forget and forgive every sorry thing he ever did to me and a couple of years ago, after realizing he was not changing and it was just a cycle, to be reapeated over and over,I started remembering everything that had happened and wrote it all down. It really helped me to see realistically what he was like. It was then that I decided he had a problem and I was in denial about all of it. I am completely detatched from him emotionally now and working on getting my life going again. Good luck!
Free

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He told me he would soon be ready to put our relationship back together he was 98% sure I'm the one.I just
listened didn't say anything cause everytime I spoke up he would say "will ya just listen to me"
He asked me to come to our old place to talk next week...I told him what ever he needed to talk to me about he
could tell me here.
Well he just kept saying he was waiting for me to prove one thing to him before he completly would give up all
relationships. <hr /></blockquote>Mary, you have nothing to prove to him, he is the one that has everything to prove to you and he has not even taken the first step as he doesn't realize that it is his controlling, abusive, cheating, etc behaviour that is the problem... Glad you didn't go over there, I know it is very hard, but stay stong, it will get easier in time.. you have gotten some great advice, you are young, you deserve better, don't look back 20 years from now and be stuck in the same
abusive relationship. Do some stuff for you, take a class, go to divorce care, get into IC, go out with friends, try to keep busy and keep your mind off it, you will have to make concious effort to control your thoughts... it is a very difficult time but unless he can do a 180 and change his life around, you don't deserve to be in an abusive relationship.
Stay strong.
Dave

after realizing he was not changing and it was just a cycle, to be reapeated over and over,I started remembering everything that had happened and wrote it all down. It really helped me to see realistically what he was like. It was then that I decided he had a problem and I was in denial about all of it. I am completely detatched from him emotionally now and working on getting my life going again

FreeAgain I'm so proud of you....!!!!!
What a Stronge Women,you give me courage to break this cycle.I'm going to write,I love to write so it shouldn't be a problem <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
And when ever I need to Remember Reality of how he's treated me I can just read in the journals.
My dad went out and bought me one of those recorders as well.To tape Ken when he does come for visits....just to have.
His family completly cut off my son and I from them,I can't Beleive that they are backing his ever move even with the knowledge that he's having affairs.They invited him to bring one of the ladies down to visit them over the holidays.

Here's
a letter from his parents:

Dear Mary,

By withholding Kieran from seeing Kenny, his Father, you withhold
Kieran from
seeing us too. How sad and unfortunate that is for him. If your anger
allows you to try and keep Kieran away from Kenny, Kieran will most
likely be
kept away from us too his Grandparents, as Kenny is our son. How very
sad for
Kieran, how sad that truly is.

Debbie

Here's another letter: After I told everyone why I filed for Divorce.

Mary,

We DO NOT STAND UP FOR EVIL!! I'm sorry you believe that, it certainly
is
not the truth. We are Godly people and love the Lord with all our
hearts,
and that has certainly been demonstrated to both of you time and time
again!
The truth, as you call it, is somewhere between what we hear from you
and
what we hear from Kenny. It takes two to make a marriage work and it
takes
two to destroy one also. From what we have observed over the years
would say
that both have contributed to this outcome. We hurt for that.

As to who has done what to whom, you both know that your individual
actions
directly contribute to the actions of the other. Each action causes a
response which then causes another action. No one wins! Telling
everyone
what actions were taken by Kenny against you only brings one side of
the
situation out in the open. Again, it takes two.

We are as sorry as anyone involved whenever a marriage ends. Although
anger
is a natural reaction, letting it get the best of you will only hurt
you.
Irresponsible actions based on anger is not what's best for Kieran. So
our
request for both you and Kenny is to control your actions for the sake
of
Kieran's well being.

We're glad that you have talked with a Pastor. Seeking Godly advice at
this
time is the best thing. However, had this been done eariler in the
marriage,
all of this may have been avoided. As we both know this was never
walked out
by either of you.

Mary, we want to hear from you. Again, what we want to hear is how
Kieran is
doing. None of us in this home need to hear all the onesided stories
and
details of a broken marriage from two very self-centered people.

Sent with God's love for you, Kieran and Kenny,
Kent & Debbie

Ken can only see Kieran our son while in the presence on me or my parents because of his domestic violence and drug use.His parents have only justified his behavior,and there words don't add up with there actions...just like Ken!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> We haven't talked in months since the emails!!

Mary, you have nothing to prove to him, he is the one that has everything to prove to you and he has not even taken the first step as he doesn't realize that it is his controlling, abusive, cheating, etc behaviour that is the problem... Glad you didn't go over there, I know it is very hard, but stay stong,

Thank you Dave.....he is still pointing the finger at me,and I've always taken it.Tried to change to be better,so he would be HAPPY!!
What really doesn't help is his parents point the finger at me,justified the spending of money on new gear for his studio(while leaving the bills for me ),justified him having to play in bars to get exposure,justified him looking at porn saying it was normal for non-christians to look at it...justified his abuse saying i pushed his buttons.justified the affairs saying I gave him to the ow,because I wasn't meeting his needs.
He wasn't meeting mine not even close,I'm the one who went for help,he got mad that I was talking about his life.I went to women's retreats,counselors ect.
After awile I gave up!!
He thought help was a joke <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> sorry I needed to vent..lol

Just writing,having one of those days...trying to stop myself from telling STBX off
He came for a visit last night one hour late~ 8pm is bad enough,our son is sleeping by 8:30pm for sure...IT GOT TO BE 9:15pm no sign of him.So I turned off the porch light and left a message on his cell,make sure you call me next time I find it rude not to call and let me know your not coming to see our son.And we need to know more of a notice then at 8pm that night.
9:20PM he shows up,hey can I see my son.So I bring him out of bed so he could hold him.During this time I go into my room and close the door,next thing he's knocking on my door..hey can i talk to you.
Ya why not(I was not in the greatest mood ).

He started off saying "You know I don't want things this way!"
I bit my lip and said "Really,Ken what you've done to my insides it would take alot of mending to repair"

In a Arrogant,and cocky tone:
"Well Mary the past 3 years you have made me feel not special and like you didn't care about my dreams "
All you cared about was starting a family,not about getting me through college.You know NO ONE In this city knows what I know in the recording industry" I'm getting bored I've already did all the night clubs in town next week I'm going out to Chicago to do some clubs,and go to the Bose Training.You know I will be making 6 figures someday,and you won't be able to escape me you'll see a movie i've helped,or hear a tune on the radio I worked on"

I wanted to laugh Really...I've heard this FOR YEARS!!!! "Ken, you are very talented..i'm sure you will go somewhere with it!!"

"Mary,I'm still waiting for that one thing"

"What is it Ken?I'm no mind reader!!"

(Ken)"Well I want you to show me that I'm special and that you know who I am..and what I'm about "

(in my mind I was thinking Ya I know what your all about)..

Here's the kicker...."Mary,I think you need to go to a counselor..to get help (over the affairs),I think it would be good for you!"

My mouth dropped "Ken, I am apart of some great support groups,and yes I have gotten Help for the Mess you have caused this family" "I'm Healing,I'm moving forward!"

(Ken)Well you'll never make no 6 figuares like me.

Ken will see in 5 years WHO'S WHERE,Remember when you said I was so weak...you really thought I would just wither away...AND DIE, But I'm not Going to!!!
You've broken the vows to our marriage,and I haven't seen anything to show me why I would want to be with you!!
Look your sleeping with two women I know about and you can't even be commited to them!!
He started smirking..
(Ken) "Well I'm just in survival mode,I don't care about anyone sex is just sex..I haven't met the right one yet I thought you were her" I want to be married but married to the right person!!

Ken you can't Love someone until you Love yourself!! Ken you are wearing me out I have nothing to show you nothing to prove..Nothing I did to you made you go and have an affair.

As far as I'm concerned It was no affair,we weren't married anymore...you stopped showing me You cared about my dreams.I'm just dating!!

Ken,ya know someone I know....... told me I would get to a point where I would look at you and Grieve the Man you were,and PITTY THE MAN YOU HAVE BECOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm there now
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Mary, please keep venting here....

One for the lessons that I learned is that the family is in most all cases going to stick by their
blood, regardless of what happened, don't expect Kens family to find any fault in what he is doing, they will justify his actions, as he will to himself.

You will shortly get to the point where you realize that you cannot have logical conversation with someone that is in the fog... so there is no point debating/arguing the issues....
What use to work good for me was to just reply.... "sorry you fell that way" that avoids the
debates that you cannot win.

You are doing great, keep up the good work.
Dave

You will shortly get to the point where you realize that you cannot have logical conversation with someone that is in the fog... so there is no point debating/arguing the issues....

Yes,Now I'm really finding that out....
Thanx Dave I'll keep venting,it helps not to pick up the phone and give him a piece of my mind.The urge is so strong but writing is better then doing it!!
I had my first panic attack..my heart felt like it was beating out of my chest. I feel better now but wow was it scary.
His parents and family..I just cannot Beleive they support him like this.But nothings really a shock these days anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by BetrayedByMyBestFriend:
Hey there,

I just had a surprise visit from Husband..he wanted to talk to me.He claimed he was unhappy he didn't miss me but missed our son. "YEAH RIGHT, HE MISSES HIS SON BUT NOT HIS MOTHER?? GIVE ME A BREAK."
That maybe when the waters calm down we could get cousel "WE?? HOW ABOUT YOU DUDE, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO LEFT ME AND OUR SON TO GO PLAY HOOTCHIE-MAMA WITH YOUR HO! I WANT TO DO MARRIAGE COUNSELING WITH YOU AFTER AND ONLY AFTER YOU LEAVE YOUR HO AND RETURN TO REALITY." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ,it's a bunch of mind games!!
Then he stated that the past is the future revisited! "EXCUSE ME? WHAT KIND OF BS IS THAT??! YOU CHOSE YOUR SCREWED-UP FUTURE BECAUSE YOU ARE SELFISH AND CARE ABOUT NOBODY BUT YOUR OWNSELF!"
And he hated the wife I was I was a Bad wife,couldn't cook good,clean good enough ect..he has his list. "OH I SEE - YOU HAVE THIS BS LIST OF CRAPOLA YOU THINK WAS WRONG WITH ME, SO THAT GIVES YOU LICENCE TO JUST CHUCK IT ALL AND GO SLEEP WITH SOME HO AND BREAK ALL YOUR MARRIAGE VOWS TO ME?? WANNA TALK ABOUT LISTS - I THINK WHAT YOU DID IS FAR MORE WORSE THAN ANY IMAGINED WRONGS YOU THINK I HAVE!"
I told him I may have flaws but he had some pretty huge issue's to deal with.
Tears started welling up in his eyes.It's all his game. "GO AHEAD, HUBBY - CRY THOSE CROCIDILE TEARS - YOU'RE NOT FOOLIN' ANYONE, YOU KNOW. GET YOUR OWN TISSUE, OR HAVE YOUR HO GET ONE FOR YOU!"
Then he says I wanted you..but the other ladies are like you used to be~~~~ "OTHER LADIES? YOU'RE BLIND, DUDE! I'M STILL THE SAME WIFE YOU ONCE PLEDGED TO LOVE, HONOUR, CHERISH, AND HAVE FOR LIFE - WHAT HAPPENED??"
I said Ken I miss the Old you too,he will forever be in my-heart not the man who called me every name in the book,and hit me. "THAT SUCKS - HE'S AN ABUSER TOO!"
I know I know we all did screwed up things.
Ken you do not love us enough If you did you would be getting help right now and would of left the realationships.
He left. "LIARS CAN'T FACE THE TRUTH. SO THEY RUN, AS USUAL..."

Hmmmmm The Past is the future revisited...(ya if you don't deal with your demons).What do you think???<hr /></blockquote>

Mary, regarding the panic attacks, please get some help now if this is your first one, they can become very serious if you don't get them under control... in most cases you can control them without medicane but it takes getting some help from someone that is a specialist in that area... I had panic attacks for about 10 years before I finally learned to handle them... They
are physically harmless, although they do not feel like it at the time, but emotionally they can be devestating.Take care,
Dave

Thanx DJ t bird You Had me rolling on the floor!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

yEAH RIGHT, HE MISSES HIS SON BUT NOT HIS MOTHER?? GIVE ME A BREAK."

"WE?? HOW ABOUT YOU DUDE, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO LEFT ME AND OUR SON TO GO PLAY HOOTCHIE-MAMA WITH YOUR HO! I WANT TO DO MARRIAGE COUNSELING WITH YOU AFTER AND ONLY AFTER YOU LEAVE YOUR HO AND RETURN TO REALITY."
"EXCUSE ME? WHAT KIND OF BS IS THAT??! YOU CHOSE YOUR SCREWED-UP FUTURE BECAUSE YOU ARE SELFISH AND CARE ABOUT NOBODY BUT YOUR OWNSELF!"
And he hated the wife I was I was a Bad wife,couldn't cook good,clean good enough ect..he has his list. "OH I SEE - YOU HAVE THIS BS LIST OF CRAPOLA YOU THINK WAS WRONG WITH ME, SO THAT GIVES YOU LICENCE TO JUST CHUCK IT ALL AND GO SLEEP WITH SOME HO AND BREAK ALL YOUR MARRIAGE VOWS TO ME?? WANNA TALK ABOUT LISTS - I THINK WHAT YOU DID IS FAR MORE WORSE THAN ANY IMAGINED WRONGS YOU THINK I HAVE!"
I"GO AHEAD, HUBBY - CRY THOSE CROCIDILE TEARS - YOU'RE NOT FOOLIN' ANYONE, YOU KNOW. GET YOUR OWN TISSUE, OR HAVE YOUR HO GET ONE FOR YOU!"
Then he says I wanted you..but the other ladies are like you used to be~~~~ "OTHER LADIES? YOU'RE BLIND, DUDE! I'M STILL THE SAME WIFE YOU ONCE PLEDGED TO LOVE, HONOUR, CHERISH, AND HAVE FOR LIFE - WHAT HAPPENED??"
"THAT SUCKS - HE'S AN ABUSER TOO!"
He left. "LIARS CAN'T FACE THE TRUTH. SO THEY RUN, AS USUAL..."

Hmmmmm The Past is the future revisited...(ya if you don't deal with your demons).What do you think???

I had panic attacks for about 10 years before I finally learned to handle them... They
are physically harmless, although they do not feel like it at the time, but emotionally they can be devestating.

10 yEARS WOW I can't imagine....I checked with my doctor and she thought it might be an anxity attack..she going to try putting me on wellbutrin..

~~~~BuMP~~~~~

glad you are getting some help with the anxiety.. it is pretty normal to get panic/anxiety durning this period of time.. it will get better! Hope you are doing well.
Dave

Thanx Dave...I'm hanging in here.
I got in the mail Surviving an affair and his needs her needs.And have started reading through them,I would like to do the phone counseling with Dr Harley....does anyone know if there's a wait how soon can they get to you?I'm sure they are sooooo busy,but I think it would be good to speak with one of them.
I know I need to get rid of this guy,and it would feel wonderful to know without a shadow of a doubt I tried everything..
He stopped by on halloween to see our son for 10 min on his lunch break.I can't beleive how he's missing out on this kids life!! My(our) son was coloring..and he made a comment on so he's right handed.
Yup,and he can now say words Ken!! I can tell that our son doesn't understand that Kens his dad he thinks my dad is his dad.He's shy around Ken now very distant.
Then Ken called last night at 10pm to ask me if I was getting any of his mail.And to make me feel bad that I wasn't paying his bills.You left me with all of rent to pay and now I have to work extra blah blah...then he says he has to go after 5 min....
My Hate Bank is way high right now I can't stand to look at him anymore~~~

Just to Keep my mind on track that STBX is Not thinking about me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I thought I would type the love letters I found before Leaving our place.What is crazy is he used to write me love letters and songs same words more in deepth letters...but it's healing for me to do this..so here goes

Letter to Marcy from Ken (Marcy is the first Ow..who is now divorcing her husband after he had an affair on her)

(Marcy)
I like to hold you I like To keep an angel by myside.

Found that in his wallet..

Sept 12th 2002 To Marcy from Ken
Tonight I sit underneath a blanketed sky
of stars thinking by the time you get this letter THE MOMENT WILL SURELY HAVE PAST..THAT IS...WERE I AM NOW.
I sit here in a dazed confusion of Love,Fustration,and Hope.In my mind I'm looking back at past Memories like a door Left blown open by a winter storm.I sit here shivering because I am cold.I'm cold only by the thought that I am not with you now.
I dream about warm summer nights that I miss.I miss the way your silky hair blows in the wind.
As I listen to the waves crashing beside us.Holding you this close and feeling you breathe alows my soul to melt upon your soft lips.What do I do now? What do I say? My mind is left rushing for answers,because you make me feel a way I have never felt before.
I touch your velvet skin and pray---I can live like this again.I stand holding onto you listening to your heart and giving into your suductive brown eyes.I am in Heaven..everything I've ever hoped,dreamed,and wished for was in my arms that night.I sit now again thinking.
Another door has opened in my mind.One that shines bright with sunshine and a gateway to a white picket fence,and a house of Love,a Lifetime of Happyness.This door however cannot be walked through tonight.It remains a promise of hope for days to come.I sit here with my eyes closed revisioning your laugh,your smile ,your sent.In everything I do,Everywhere I go,I am in constant remembrance of you.How I could wish I could only wrip apart a page out of time to experance you again,the way I have today.How I wish I could pull back time to just see you again,now ,in this moment.
I understand good things come in time and that patients is a virtue to Love Life and everything that matters...so here i sit thinking of you Goodnight you girl I love you

Here's one from Star the OW he is very involved with now as well.... The Fog must do REALLY WIERD THINGS TO PEOPLES HEADS

(she's 20 and a cop of all things**comes from a very wealthy family..buys him everything)

Sept 2002

Dear Ken,
Well Hey! How are you? I am just Amazed that you dropped me off about 10 min ago,and I am already missing you..like it's been days.I have this undescribable intimate connection with you that touches me in ways I have never been touched before.I am infatuated with you Ken.It's crazy to think how life and love work themselves out,but at the sametime it's so breathtaking and beautiful.It's just extremely strange timing how some people and there significant others come together these days.But I like it!!

It keeps life Real and interesting,the way it should be.I trust my feelings and I trust my life.Therefore I truly believe it would be a huge mistake for me not to be with you,because I refuse to fight what is meant to be.When I think about you which is constantly I feel intimately weak.Like the exact way when you kiss me.
I melt when I think of the way you hold my face when you kiss me.The way you look into my eyes when your done kissing me.Ken I feel like I have already made love with you.I can't even believe the intensity gets stronger and stronger..more intimate.We have so many wonderful things in common,but just enough differances to make things interesting.I think everything is perfect that is your perfect for me.
I want to take all your pain away because I don't think it's fair for a person as great as you are should be hurting the way you are.Well here I will leave you at this -I will never hurt you.And I don;t make promises I can't keep.After all while no ones watching us why don't we just do it in the road.
See you friday
Love Star Serene
P.s I am so glad you came into my life slowy but surely your becoming my life!

What A Stud <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Is this CRAZY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> How in Gods name can he feel like this about two women....I just wanna copy them and send them to both ow....so bad!!!

[ November 02, 2002, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: BetrayedByMyBestFriend ]

Bump

Mary, no need to copy and send them the letter, they will get what they deserve in time, that I am sure of.
What is amazing is that these OW think that he is not going to do the same thing to them as he has done to you. They will find out in time, for sure.

This is all fog babble... sorry you have to be a part of it.

The books you received are very good, but they are mainly for saving your marriage but they are also good for personal knowledge.

Take care,
Dave

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Just needed to Vent alittle.
I got a flat tire while driving,had to pull off.Didn't have my cell on me...it was snowing/cold...had to walk to a house to call...a tow truck.The tears started falling,I wanted so bad to call Ken and say come save me.
I had no one to call everyone was at work,so I sat and sat then the guy put the tire on and I drove home.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's been a weird day

Sorry you had a bad day but look on the bright side... you managed to get the situation resolved by yourself, you didn't give in and call for his assistance, you resolved this on your own. You are getting stonger day by day. There will be many ups and downs on your road to recovery, but it will get better. Be proud of what you have accomplished....

PS... I tried your link but it states access denined when it opens up Yahoo..

Take care,
Dave

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Good grief the ups and downs of Divorce.Today was better.I just can't wait until a week goes by and I don't think of him at all!!
Trying to stay busy,but he's still on my mind 24/7.
I'm glad you told me about the link I changed it to public viewing now so it should work!!
Let me know if it doesn't please

Thanx,
Mary

Mary,

I've been consumed by this site and am sponging everything I possibly can. I am WS-38 BS-36. We are a blended family (4 boys). Just alittle background.

The difficulty and I use the term losely is that you share a treasure (son) with this man who can't seem to get it through his heart that marriage is for life. I have found the hard way is the only way for me to redirect my life. It's the proverbial "you never know what you've lost to you lose it"! As difficult as it is you must stand your ground. Have you Plan B'd him yet? Did you write a formal letter conveying the ground rules? That's a must...and you must stick to it! Even if it means he has to see your son at a mutually agreed upon location (somehwere safe for you and your son). Do not entertain any advances from him. Again, I know what I must do to regain the man I once was!!!

God's Blessing's to you and your son!

I'm steaming right now....really need to vent!!!!

My parents live(were i'm staying) down the road a few miles away from our old home.Ken and Marcy normally Tan at another tanning place closer to our old house.Well,I walked into my tanners and the OW was sitting waiting for my husband to get out from his bed.The lady at the counter asked if I knew Ken(since our last name was the same).
I said yes it's my husband(Marcy smirked)...The gal was like Really!?
Ya were in the middle of a divorce because he's cheating on me with her over there and another girl......Becareful he may try to pick up up next!!
Marcy's smirk stopped
She asked me if I wanted to see him since he was just coming out...I said No thank you,it would be a waist of my time he's an idiot.
Before coming in I saw his car...thought it was his new sports car,But thought I was seeing things...since he claimed he was in Chicago this week.Caught him in yet another lie...he told me the car was not going to be titled in his name until After the divorce that way I couldn't have it.Well it's got his tags on it!!!!!!! I'm gonna go after it now
He called me on his cell and was all nice to me...but I did some big LB,I couldn't hold it back.I asked him to pick which place he was going to tan at because I didn't want to run into him and @###%$%$#$#$%!!!!! And how dare he Lie to me about the car...then I hung up on him.
He has two cars I drive my parents....I have our baby.
WHat a butt head!!!!

I have found the hard way is the only way for me to redirect my life. It's the proverbial "you never know what you've lost to you lose it"! As difficult as it is you must stand your ground. Have you Plan B'd him yet? Did you write a formal letter conveying the ground rules? That's a must...and you must stick to it! Even if it means he has to see your son at a mutually agreed upon location (somehwere safe for you and your son). Do not entertain any advances from him. Again, I know what I must do to regain the man I once was!!!

Catch2222,
After tonight I'm so mad..after running into him and OW...I'm thinking Plan B for my own piece of mind...if I talk to him all I want to do is chew him out.I told him tonight flat out when he called me I'm to my end of the rope,you need to give up the ow or you will be losing me forever!!
I want to give him an ultimatium...so plan B looks good right now.
Do you think it's possible for someone like him to change?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm starting to write my plan B letter,I'll post it before I send it to him.Should I send it through the mail or give it to him?
I'm just to the end of my rope.....he called me back last night.
The only thing he had to say was "Mary,I have already lost you!"
I told him no he hasn't...he needed to leave the Ow and work on us,or yes he will have lost me forever.

"what does that mean in guy talk I've already lost you?!!!!!!"
Any ideas?

Mary,

As a man, I see him still trying to manipulate you! STOP! Breathe! Continue to write your Plan B. Don't know what others think but to post it may not be a bad idea...You have experts all around on this site who are willing to help and objectively at that.

The only way someone is willing and able to change is if he/she has hit bottom. Sounds AA in nature but the whole notion applies to life. If you're working in a career field you may not like but enjoy the good pay and benefits of, you just might sabotage either consciously
or "unconsciously" achieving and fulfilling your dark sides desires! As long as his walk is of this world and not in the light of Christ HE WILL NOT CHANGE! Your Plan B just may be the start of his bottom...be tough in your stance and in your love. Let him know you love him (if you still do), and I'm sure you do or you wouldn't be here! Let him know how much but remind him with your letter that you mean business!!!

Best wishes! Be safe and have a breath filled weekend!

I gotta good laugh out of this one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
One of Kens OW CAlled here looking for him...3 times tonight.Finally I told her look he's not here,like I told you before he's dating other women too, call Star.
(ow)Well I don't have her number!!
Sorry can't help you Ow...
click

Maybe things are starting to finally click in the first OW head!!!
I just thought that was funny he must be with the <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> *other *other women ...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Do you think it's possible for someone like him to change? <hr /></blockquote>Yes, but only if he wants to, you cannot make him change or want to change... I think he has a very long way to go before he wants to change and then he has the difficult road ahead of trying to change his ways... He probably will not want to change until he hits rock bottom.. don't think he is there yet and there is no guarentee that he will ever do it. There are things that you can do to help out, like Plan B, and stopping any support that you may be giving to him, especially emotional support.
Hope you had a good weekend... I checked out your pictures..your son is adorable...

Take care,
Dave

Need to VENT!!
I'm in plan B,And have made up my mind that I will not think* about working on saving our marriage any longer..until Ken deals with all the addictions!! Which may never happen...SO I'M MOVEN ON.....I have had it...I have no other choice.
I do so good,when I don't have to deal with him.
Please Help me think of what actions to take now.Since I am in Plan B.
Differant situations,I don't know how to handle..HELP!!
Yesterday I was shopping at the mall...christmas shopping with my little boy.I was walking and looked and there was Ken Marcy and her 2 children.Ken tried to talk to me and see his son,I kept walking.He hasn't come to see him in over a week now...he has no excuses he's too busy with his life.
He was carrying her oldest on his shoulders it just Breaks my Heart.
Did I do THE right THING keep walking...not give him or OW the time of day??
Another thing is he stopped by last night with her in the car,said he had bought Kieran a coat..I told him Just pay child support I'll pick out the clothes.I don't need your girlfriends picking out my sons clothes.
Then shut the door,I haven't taken any of his calls...
I'M SO UPSET....I had two people call me saying they saw Ken with another women,people I haven't talked with in yrs!!!
Then I explained were divorcing ect...but still it's so desrispectful(sp?)of him to parade OW around town
I feel that everywhere I go I am going to run into him..I swear I have bad luck.

Mary, I have been in the exact situation, in a mall, I did the same thing, keep walking.
I felt bad that I didn't let the kids see their mom but there is plently of other time for visits.
Right now, you have to do what is best for you and if that means avoiding contact with him then that is what you do and you don't feel bad about it. You are in a difficult period of time, but it will get better.

Plan B is a last resort to save your marriage and to save your love for the WS. It sounds like you are beyond plan B, you are letting go, giving up, and eventually you will move on. The first step is letting go, a very difficult thing to do. There is no easy solutions, I think that developing a plan and sticking to it, unless things change with him, is the best for you. I think you said previously that you have a support group, that will help, so will IC. Think about what is best for you and your son, develop a plan around that, and stick to it, keep coming here for support. I am sure that if you have not already done so, you will find many others in the same situation here.. I post alot on the thread called
Tough Love, it is very long but there are alot of great people there... check it out if you have alot of reading time on your hands.
Hang in there,
Dave

Hey Dave and anyone else who may be reading this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

First of all I wanted to say Thank you,something clicked in my brain...I have been struggling with it the past 2 weeks.What to do..Plan B or A or to just completly Let GO!!
My Heart is letting go on it's own,his actions help me let him go.
I still Love him/Care about him deeply But...as I told him You ripped this family apart,I Forgave you and wanted to work things out..You didn't choose to go in that direction.

I feel like I have been slapped in the face one too many times.

I told him from now on he can make an appointment to see Kieran..no more 8:30-9pm at night, buisness!!
Just call a day ahead,and I won't be here my mom will supervise the visits.We can only talk about Kieran/and Legal issue's.

I also LB'd <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I wish I would have held my tongue but i told him...

Ya know what,instead of Playing Daddy With ow kids..you should be seeing your son...so do not give me anymore excuses!!

Well I'm still his dad.

Yes, You are...but to me I think of you as a sperm donor,IF YOU TRULY LOVED YOUR SON YOU WOULDN'T BE RIPPING HIS FAMILY APART!!
I'm done you come to me when and if you get help!

I'll check out the Tough Love thread...

Thanx for saying my little punkins cute,yes He's my Angel...
I'll post more tomarrow..I had another shop tell ya drop day.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> no sign of Keb <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Bump* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Listen, I would have LBed too. How dare he play daddy to another kid when he doesn't spend time with his. Plan B sounds correct to me. Enough!!
He is acting like a cakeman getting needs met by any woman that comes along. He needs a dose of reality.

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!

MY GOD!! I looked at your pics-you are beautiful--sorry, he's an idiot! WS can be so stupid. Is he manic depressive? I can't imagine anyone who is not mentally ill leaving such a beautiful family. He would die of jealosy if he thought about you with someone else...and I am a BW too. Bump

Just a update on my situation.Everything went great yesterday,took my son out got home around 730.I went tanning,as I walked out of the tanning salon(I always park 5 feet from the door) Ken was standing smoking leaning on the building.
He was alone,but gave me the expression of suprise suprise.....
I stopped for 2 min,gave him an excuse I need to get home my shows on soon and have to tape it.

I was unlocking my car and his mouth was still going.
Saying things like I will fight you...if you think our son isn't going to have everyother weekend with me.
Be ready for the courtroom he said.
I left
He is making this so much a headache!!
He's starting to get alittle BOLD NOW,he was talking in front of other men and women children..since there where people walking around.
Not even bothered by the topics being spoke.
Cheating
Abuse
people were looking at him......

He doesn't like the loss of control. Reality is hitting him. He has had his cake and eaten it too and now you are calling his bluff. Good for you. Keep up the good work. You are fighting for your life.

HI Mary, well, maybe you LB but I can certainly understand... maybe you can try to keep it just related to your son instead of bringing the other family into it... I totally understand your perspective, I would feel the same way. but you may get better results with him to express things like " I feel that you are not being a good role model, a good father, a good person. etc etc without comparing to OW.
As I previous stated, I think you and your son are going to be better with out him, I have not seen anything from him to even realize that he is the cause of the problem.....
There are some many people (men) out there that would be so thankful to have a beautiful healthy family as he had... he is truely in the fog.
I am glad to see you are getting stonger..
Mabye I see you other on the other thread..
Take care yourself and your son, keep praying to God for strength..
Dave

Thank you NJ

I think well I know he has to have mental issues'..in the past they thought he had a borderline personality disorder and narrsitic(sp?) personality disorder.
Just like Dave posted ..he doesn't seem to think he has any issue's to take care of.
Your right NJ,HE IS A CAKE MAN!!
And I have been enabling him,by trying to be there for him...
Like my dad has said to me before,I have let him call the shots,and have always waited around for him to deciede.
Now I'm calling the shots....
My Love bank is bare well maybe there's 10% left of love..out of 100%
He has to hit his wall* before he can wake up(if he does)to see he had everything HE NEEDED.
Whats funny is he once wrote a song called "You've Got everything you need"

Words went something like this

Soon the sun is setting and everyone will be watching there Tv screens
blah blah(k i'm trying to remember the words)
People will you open your eyes and see you've got everything you need....sooo far away sooo far away from here

This is Bad I'm forgetting his songs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
He's great with writting I just don't remember them anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!

hang in there
bump

I'm hoping and praying that a year will pass fast...I've got a couple hurdles added to my situation here...
My mom confided in me that her and my dad are having problems,and the past two days they have been screaming at each other...my dad works very hard 12 hour days 6-7 days a week.
Since he works hard he feels he deserves to spend as he wants.
So it been tense here..my son I don't want him around fighting...my dad won't go to a finacial advisor,or for counsling.
I have one year and i'll be out of school HOPEFULLY BACK OUT ON MY OWN.
I just hope this fighting passes..
I know 5 people getting divorced right now,this scares me to death!!

UPDATE NEED INSIGHT HERE!!

I got a letter in the mail from Ken(ws),a very long letter.

The main point in it was this..

Mary I was Very Unhappy for the past 3 in a half years.I told my dad a year before I started dating that I wanted a divorce I hated the way you treated me.My dreams ment nothing to you,I thought going into our marriage that you KNEW what I was about..who I was.BUT found out you didn't,I promised my dad I would try for one more year.
I couldn't stand living with you anymore.
You were too controling,I hated it when you were on my back when I wanted to record over Mikes house.You were depressed,unhappy,and I knew I deserved better.The only reason I was angry,and delt with anger problems was because you pushed my buttons and I hated being married to you that much!
We have been emotionally divorced for along time,you never wanted to go out to the bars with me and watch my friends bands play.You would never leave our son to spend time with me.
I feel that I have tried everything to save our marriage.I was saving my sanity by leaving it!
Every month that passes makes me hate you more,because of what your doing to me.
I could have really got you in court but..since I'm not that way I let things slide.
Unlike you,you had to make sure our son was kept from me and that I should take over the rental,along with the utilities.
I find this SICK
I can never consider going back into a relationship with you when you play these cards.
There is no reason I shouldn't have our son everyother weekend,and you should be paying these bills along with me.
Everyday you wake up and leave things this way,is another reason why I will never be with you again.

Ohh my.....

Mary,

There is so much I would love to tell you but I am not sure if you would be receptive of what I had to say. My heart goes out to you. Your pictures made you so real to me.

You husband has been taken captive by Satan to do his will. God is allowing this to bring you and your husband closier to him. You may be the only one praying for your husband's soul. Your husband is not your enemy,Satan is.

my husand could have said a lot of the same things about me and did. Especially the controling part. I thought I was doing what was best, but God has shown me differently.

When I was in so much pain and had not hope, I cried out to God and He sent me to this web site.
www.restorem.org. I ordered the book and God spoke to me. I have learned so much about marriage and why most marriage fail any more. I have a heart for all marriages that are in trouble now. I have learned there is a differnet way. God's way. Most think they are doing things Gods way but I found that most are not. I sure wasn't. The book there is all Gods word written by someone who has been were we have been(a failed marriage).It changed me and has brought me so much closier to the Lord.

God stopped my divorce and He is working on my marriage. I have learned to depend on God for ALL things. We cannot change anyone but we can allow God to change us. God turns the heart whichever why He wants. As I have grown closier to God, my relationshio with my husband has improved. We get along great now and go the church together with our daughters.

I have nothing to gain by sending you to this site. I believe you have every thing to gain. God wants all your heart and your husband's and he will do anything to get His children's attention.
Please go there order the book and let God turn things around for you. It is a very narrow road, but something tells me you can do it. You have already gone so far. Let God speak to you. It really works.

gentle

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You husband has been taken captive by Satan to do his will. God is allowing this to bring you and your husband closier to him. You may be the only one praying for your husband's soul. Your husband is not your enemy,Satan is.

my husand could have said a lot of the same things about me and did. Especially the controling part. I thought I was doing what was best, but God has shown me differently.

<hr /></blockquote>Gentle,
I would Love to hear any advice.I too think Satan has got ahold of my husband,and was slowly pulling me into the mud too.
I checked out the web site,thank you...

Mary,

I am so glad you went to the web site. I could tell by reading your post that you are willing to stand with god to heal your husband. It may take a while but God will help you thru it and you will come out a much better person with a closier relationship to the Lord. I know because God has done all this for me and what He does for one He will do for all. We must have faith.

This is a narrow rode but one God will reward you for in His time. Don't let Satan take anything else from your family. I know you can fight the good battle with the Lord. Remember it is a spiritual battle and must be fought in the spirit.

If you have any questions please let me know. I don't have all the answers but, God's word does.
Order the book and you will be blessed by what you read.

I will keep you and your husband in my prayers.

gentle

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Ohhh Boy WHAT DO I DO NOW!?
I'm in plan B(Modified)
WS...came for visitation called my mom and asked if he could pop in since he was driving by.I was not home at the time,got home and he was in the livingroom with our son.
I was planning on going to Toysrus by myself..and he said " ohh it would be fun can I please come with".It would really help me feel like I was apart of our sons Christmas.(Even though I was paying)
I said no I think it's not be a good idea.Then my mom says well why not!!!..she took me aside and said It's a big deal for him.
O.k so off all 3 of us went to ToysRus.

Of COURSE he started talking.....and this is what he said!!

**I need you to help me out,so I can continue to Live in this state.I need $400 a month towards bills...please do not force me to have to move out of state in with my parents!

I will Give up both OW,and will not talk or see them again.

I will go to any counsler you wish.And will fallow there direction.

However I can't promise things will work out for us,I still don't know if we can be in a relationship,but want to start off slow.

I told him I would think about it and get back with him.

There's still the issue's of one of the OW work's next door to his work.And how do I really know he wouldn't be seeing here.

He never brought up anything about being sorry,it was more like I drove him to another, and it wasn't an affair just dating.

Nor did he bring up what he was going to do to change his anger/abusive past/and drug use.

It's a thread of hope,but what does he really want here....money or me??

Any wise advice???!!!!!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by BetrayedByMyBestFriend:
**I need you to help me out,so I can continue to Live in this state.I need $400 a month towards bills...please do not force me to have to move out of state in with my parents!

Any wise advice???!!!!!<hr /></blockquote>(((Mary)))

No real "wise" advice, I just find it ironic that in his "attempt" to make ammends, he once again lays the burden of blame upon you...

Stay Strong!!

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

Hey Mary
As you may recall, we met on the Tough Love thread. So I realize I'm jumping in here in the middle of this one but since I knew your background thought it might be OK

As I was reading what he said, the red flags were flying all over the place. I won't write each one individually...because I think in your common sense you can tell where he's coming from. He basically wants to USE you (yet again) to get what he wants (stay in state and be a "cake eater"). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It is GREAT that he will see another counselor. I would take him up on that offer immediately. Depending on that counselor's "take" on your troubling situation, and your husbands sincerity (or lack thereof), let that help guide you. There is a lot of co-dependency going on here...and I'd hate for you to be suckered into another situation that would be no better than before he left. He really needs to get his own act together before he is a suitable father and husband. And nothing that he said (by what you wrote) shows that he even has considered that. He is blaming you for it all and "drove him to OW" ??

Oh, and your husband needs $400/month?? Where does he expect that to come from? You're living with your parents, and don't work (I think). Does he want them to pay him support now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
One more thing...I would gently remind your mom to not go "against" you in front of him. It makes things awkward, and it is very possible he was trying to win her over to "his side" before you got home. Privately would be another matter, however. Sometimes parents provide another side of things that is good to hear.

You are a VERY smart girl. Stand strong!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I just find it ironic that in his "attempt" to make ammends, he once again lays the burden of blame upon you...
<hr /></blockquote>Me too thats why I didn't just say oh K here's the money now can we go to counseling.
Which in the past I might have done when we were living together.He Believes in his thinking soo strongly,he truly believes I was to blame.If I would have cared about him I would have changed the things he asked of me before he strayed.
*Look my best for him
*Clean/cook
*pay half of all bills
*Support his dream in music
*He wanted me to be a porn star in bed

One thing thats a HUGE red flag(this is why I hate porn)Sex is just sex to him....he wouldn't even Kiss me when we had sex....IS THAT WIERD OR WHAT??
Why this just came to my mind I have no clue.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by BetrayedByMyBestFriend:
*Look my best for him
*Clean/cook
*pay half of all bills
*Support his dream in music
*He wanted me to be a porn star in bed

he wouldn't even Kiss me when we had sex....IS THAT WIERD OR WHAT??

Why this just came to my mind I have no clue.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> [/QB]<hr /></blockquote>I don't know gurl, but you need to get that stuff out of your mind. LOL.... Actually, I believe if you did some kind of poll you would find that more common than you think. My X, wouldn't give me emotional sex either. Whether I initiated it or she did, it was like Wham Bam Thank you Ma'am.

Ironically, during my last encounter with her 464 days ago and counting, I got what I had longed for for years. Only problem was it was just a game and caused more pain.

The things you mentioned above, I think those are reasonable for two happy people, meeting each other needs and "in love". But that's not the reality of your situation and I guess you didn't want to just PLAY house you wanted a real relationship, shame on you....

Anyway, I've read through some of your posts and you sound like you are a strong woman. I think you need to set some guidelines with your family. As for Ken, I really question his motives, maturity, and ability to maintain a healthy relationship. If I'm off base, I'm sorry.

Someone mentioned "red flags", well I'm a racing fan and I see a whole bunch of colors of flags...

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

He basically wants to USE you (yet again) to get what he wants (stay in state and be a "cake eater").

Avondale,
Yes please jump right in I love hearing input..I'm always checking myself to make sure I did the right thing..all MB friends are wonderful and I'm very thankful for any advice!!!!

Those red flags were a flying too!!
I just heard those words I'll give up Ow..thats when that glimmer of hope came in.
I had a response for what he said..

*Well if you wern't such a crappy wife,maybe I wouldn't have jumped to see if there were people out there who would make me feel special..if anyone thought I was even special.And I found out there are very caring people out there.

Why didn't you go for help...counsling why did you leave the marriage?

*I just wanted out,had enough..you only live once..I didn't feel married to you anymore.After you found the porn,I thought it was over and thats when I met her and she treated me good.But there's alot going on in both OW's lives right now..

Do you understand that when you got up in front of your family and friends and pledged your vows.We became one...you having sex with Ow,was like taking my body(since were one)and not asking me...almost like raping my soul.

*You know if someone who was raped heard you talk like that they would kill you ,you know Ow was when she was younger...how dare you say that!

*Mary I don't know who your getting your advice from but..who ever it is they don't have our sons best interest in hand.

Depending on that counselor's "take" on your troubling situation, and your husbands sincerity (or lack thereof), let that help guide you. There is a lot of co-dependency going on here...and I'd hate for you to be suckered into another situation that would be no better than before he left. He really needs to get his own act together before he is a suitable father and husband. And nothing that he said (by what you wrote) shows that he even has considered that. He is blaming you for it all and "drove him to OW" ??

Ya Big RED FLAGS.....

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Oh, and your husband needs $400/month?? Where does he expect that to come from? You're living with your parents, and don't work (I think). Does he want them to pay him support now?
One more thing...I would gently remind your mom to not go "against" you in front of him. It makes things awkward, and it is very possible he was trying to win her over to "his side" before you got home. Privately would be another matter, however. Sometimes parents provide another side of things that is good to hear.
<hr /></blockquote>I told my mom never to do that again...it was very awkward.
My WS...makes around 1,600-2,000 a month more like 1,600 then the rest out of his studio(that I can't prove for child support)under the table.

I work 40 hours from home watching my nephew who is autistic..we go on field trips/lots of educational stuff..I get to bring my little guy along too.
I make about 600 a week take home..(this job is a massive God SENT).My hours will be cut in half after Jan when my schools starts.
I plan on being here a year then moving into my own place.

He even asked me to move back into our old place,he'd move out and live with a buddie.
That way our son could have his own room(so he put it).Or just until the lease is up for me to pay 400 towards the 800 rent.Even though judge said I didn't have to pay it,since he asked me to leave.
He claims he won't be able to pay child support and rent,so is attorney said go bankrupt.
He said so if we pay this until the lease is up or until the landlord rerents it...I won't have to move to my parents and Kieran will have his father.
Plus I'll do counsling and give up Ow.

Tooooo many red flags...he thinks i'm evil,cold and heartless if I don't help him.

Mary
Another thing I thought of, as you were talking in more detail financially, is this. Yes, he probably does not report the money he makes musically (mine did but that was his main income and he's the exception). If your H claims he can't pay child support, make sure your lawyer knows the equipment that your H owns. I am quite sure there is LOTS of money tied up in that recording equipment, and those are JOINT assets. They do NOT belong to just him because they were bought when you were married. Any lawyer will know that, and a good one will know how to use that to your advantage financially. It might even be that he would have to liquidate these assets either now or later to make a fair settlement. If you know who any of the manufacturer's are, year purchased, etc., start doing your own inventory of it! You can even shop around for them on the net to determine their resale value.

Mary, I know you don't need advise on this but I agree with LH and Advondale, major red flags here.
He is the main source of the problem, until he realizes that his ways are the issue, there can be no reconciliation.... A marriage is only has healthy as the individuals that are in it..and we all know that at this point in his life he is not healthy. Maybe some day he will be but only with alot of IC and work on his behalf, some people never change, others do, usually after they hit rock bottom. Big question is do you want to wait around for something that may or may never happen?
Only you can decide when is enough time...
I think right now the CS has him scared and that is the only reason that he is saying this.. I wish I could be more optimistic but "when nothing changes, nothing changes."

Take care,
Dave

He is behind in child support 1,200 right now so they uped his 110 to 130 a week.
I would only be getting 60 a week if I didn't put child care in there...of course he thinks thats not fair and will fight it.
As for his gear,i've been trying hard to remember what he had..
I know I bought him a Imac and flat screen,cd burner,sound card for the computer.He gets all the soft wear free from friends.
I bought him Bongo Drums
he has 8 guitars
Bose speakers which were 800 dollars
Mics and stands
He had things in boxes too!!
He has wall to wall of stuff everywhere.

I think right now the CS has him scared and that is the only reason that he is saying this.. I wish I could be more optimistic but "when nothing changes, nothing changes."

*****Thanks Dave I think it could be too..and nothing has changed.